#1188 - Lex Fridman

October 24, 2018

Lex Fridman is a research scientist at MIT, working on human-centered artificial intelligence.

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alright my guess today is a research scientist from MIT who specializes in artificial intelligence he's a brilliant man brilliant brilliant man he is a brilliant man and I we had a fascinating conversation I really enjoy talking to him so please give it up for the Lex fridman

The Joe Rogan Experience

all day

hello Lex hey man what's going on we're here notes you're seriously prepared when you jumping out of a plane is best to bring a parachute this is my parachute I understand yeah how long have you been working in artificial intelligence my whole life I think really so when I was a kid wanted to become a psychiatrist I want to understand the human mind I think the human mind is the most beautiful mystery that our entire civilizations taken on exploring through science I think you look up at the stars you know what the universe out there yet Neil deGrasse Tyson here

it's an amazing beautiful scientific Journey that were taking on and exploring the stars but the mine to me is a bigger mystery and more fascinating and it's been the thing I've been fascinated by from the very beginning of my life and just I think all of human civilization has been wondering you know what is in the inside this thing the hundred trillion connections there just firing all the time somehow making the magic happen to where you and I can look at each other make words all the fear love life. That happen is all because of this thing in here and understanding why is fascinating and what I early on understood

is that one of the best ways for me at least to understand the human mind is to try to build it and that's what artificial intelligence is you know it's it's not enough to serve from the psychology perspective to study from Psychiatry spective to investigate from the outside the best way to understand is to do so you mean almost like reverse engineering a brain there's some stuff exactly reverse engineering the brain there's some stuff that you can't understand until you try to do it you can hypothesize your I mean we'll both martial artists from various directions you can hypothesize about what is the best martial art but until you get in the ring like what UFC did

and test ideas is when you first realize that the touch of death that I've seen some YouTube videos on that you perhaps cannot kill a person with a single touch or your mind or telepathy that there certain things that work wrestling Works punching works okay can we make it better can we create something like a touch of death can we figure out how to turn the hips how to deliver a punch in the way that does do a significant amount of damage and then you at that moment when you start to try to do it and you face some of the people that try to do the same thing that's the scientific process and you try you actually begin to understand what is intelligence and you begin to also understand how little we understand it's like Richard Fineman who I'm dressed after today is a physicist I'm not sure if you're sure

yeah you always used to wear this exact thing so I feel I feel pretty bad ass wearing it if you think you know astrophysics you don't know astrophysics that's right well he said it about quantum physics so you was a Quantum physicist and he kind of hearing him talk about that understanding are the nature of the universe reality could be like an onion we don't know but it could be like an onion to where you think you know you're studying a layer of an onion in the you feel it away and there's more and you keep doing it and has an infinite number of layers with intelligence they're the same kind of component to where we think we know we got it we figured out we figure out how to beat the human world champion in chess we solved intelligence and we try the next thing wait a minute go is really difficult to solve this game and then you say okay if I came up when the game of Go was impossible for it if she thought

Mississippi have not recently have been beating a lot of technical fascinating things of why that's Victory is interesting and important artificial intelligence requires creativity correct it does not exhibit so the technical aspects of why alphago from Google deepmind that that was the the design is in the Builders of the system that was the Victor they did a few very interesting technical things where

essentially you develop on your own that work this is this type of artificial intelligence system that looks at a board of go as a lot of elements on it is black and white pieces and is able to tell you how good is this situation and how can I make it better and that idea for chess players can do this I'm not that familiar with a game of go so I can speak to I'm rushing so justices am at the size it's a beautiful again I think that they look at a board and all your previous experiences all the things you've developed over tons of years of practice and thinking you get this Instinct of what is the right path to follow and it's exactly thin your own that was doing and some of the in some of the paths has come up with are surprising to other world champions so in that sense it says what was things exhibit in creativity

because it's coming up with solutions that are

something that's outside the box thinking from the perspective of the human body differentiate between requires creativity and Exhibits creativity

I think one because we don't really understand what creativity is so

and it's almost

is it it's on the level of Concepts such as Consciousness example the question that there's a lot of thinking about whether creating something intelligent requires Consciousness requires for us to be actual living beings aware of our own existence

in the same way does doing something like building an autonomous vehicle that's the area where I work in does that require creativity does that even require something like Consciousness and self-awareness I mean I'm sure in La there's some degree of creativity required to navigate traffic and an absence start to think are there Solutions it outside of the box in AI system used to create it it's once you start to build it you realize that cause human certain things appear creative certain things adult and things you take for granted and things we find beautiful and certain things were like yeah that's that's born in different levels right at The Stand Stephen King novel that requires creativity there's something about his he's creating these stories he's giving voices to these characters he's developing these scenarios and these dramatic sequences in the book that's going to get you really suck dick

that's that's almost undeniable creativity right

is it so it's like he's Imagining the world what is it always set in New Hampshire Massachusetts world and imagine the emotions of different level of surrounding that world yeah that's that's creative although if you did really good books including his own that talks about writing yeah he's got a great book on writing on writing to see if there's anyone who can write a book on writing it should be Stephen King I think Steven pressfield I hope I'm not saying that I would say if from my recollection they don't necessarily talk about creativity very much that is really hard work putting in the hours of every day I'm just grinding it out talks about the Muse pressfield speaks of it almost in like a strange Mystikal

mystical sort of connection to the unknown cuz he peep almost I'm not even exactly sure if he believes in the Muse but the Heap I think if I could put words in his mouth I have met him he's a great guy he was on the podcast once I think the way he treated his death if you decide the muses real and you show up every day and you write as if the muses real you get the benefits of the Muse being real that's right and what is the music so I think of artificial intelligence the same way it is a quote by Pamela

McCormick from 1979 book that I really like when you should talk about the history of artificial intelligence AI began with an ancient wish to Ford's the gods and demigods brother speak in a religions represents sky like the Muse it represents the limits of possibility the limits of our imagination so this thing that we don't quite understand that is the muse that is God this us us chimps a very narrow in our ability to perceive and understand the world and there's clearly a much bigger beautiful mysterious world out there and God or the Muse represents that world and for many people I think throughout history and especially in the in the past of hundred years artificial intelligence has become to represent that a little bit to the thing which we don't understand and We crave will both terrified And We crave in creating this thing that is

Raider that is able to understand the world better than us and that in that sense artificial intelligence is the desire to create the Muse if this other this imaginary thing and I think the one of the beautiful things if you talk about everybody formula Mazda Sam Harris to all the people thinking about this

is it there is a mix of fear of that of of that unknown of Craig that I known and an excitement for it because there's something in human nature that desires creating that is like I said creating is how you understand

did you initially study biology did you study the actual development of the mind or what what is known about the the evolution of the human mind that the human mind yeah so my path is different as it's the same for a lot of computer scientist and roboticist is we ignore biology and Neuroscience the physiology anatomy of our own bodies and there's a lot of police now that you should really study biology you should studying your side you just studying all brain the actual chemistry what's happening what what is actually how are the neurons that you connected all the different kinds of systems in there so that is a little bit of a blind spot was a big blind spot but the problem is

so I started with more

philosophy almost it's where if you think Sam Harris is last couple years I started kind of thinking about artificial intelligence and he is he has a back on you and yours but he's also a philosopher and I started there by reading, we need you I'm just so yes keep thinking what is

what is intelligence what is human morality will so all of these Concepts

give you the context which you can then start studying these problems and then I said there's a there's a magic that happens when you build a robot that drives around I mean your father I'd like to be but I'm not yet there's a creation aspect that's wonderful that's incredible it's for me I don't have any children at the moment but the the act of creating a robot were you programmed it and it moves around its senses the world is this is is a is a magical moment

is a sci-fi movie where we didn't watch the movie so I need to catch up we should catch up on that one in particular because a lot of it has to do with artificial intelligence there's actually a battle between spoiler alert two different but identical artificially intelligent synthetic beans that are there to Aid the people on the ship one of them is very creative and one of them is not and the one that is not has to save them from the one that is spoiler alert I don't tell you who wins there's a really fascinating

scene at the very beginning of the movie where the creator of this artificially intelligent being is discussing its existence with the being itself and the beans trying to figure out who made him and in this is really fascinating moment and this being whines up being a bit of a problem because it possesses creativity and if it has the ability to think for itself and may they found it to be a problem so they made a different version of it which was not able to create and the one that was not able to create was much more of more of a servant and there's this battle between these two I think you would find it quite fascinating the really good movie theme carries through ex machina 2001 Space Odyssey

because of it I watch the second time because the first time I watched that and you'll deGrasse Tyson moment where it was you said this could be cut the cut the shit at the shed moments desk for me for me the movie opening is everything everything about it was I was rolling my eyes while your on your eyes what was the cut the shit moment so that's a general bad tendency that like to talk about amongst people who are scientist that are actually trying to do stuff they trying to build the thing it's it's very tempting to roll your eyes into now in a lot of aspects of artificial intelligent discussion so on for me there's real reasons to roll your eyes and there's just

well honey let me just described it so did this person in ex machina no spoiler alerts is in the middle white like a Jurassic Park type situation where is like in the middle of land that you owns yeah we don't really know where it is to be alone and he's like he's like do curls I think like dumbbells and drinking heavily so

the everything I know about science everything I know about engineering is it doesn't happen alone so the situation of a compound with no hundreds of Engineers there where and this is not is not is not feasible is not possible and the other moments like that were the technical

the discussion about how it's technically done they threw a few jargon the spice stuff up that's what makes doesn't make any sense that's where I am blissfully ignorant so I watch it I go this movie's awesome but that's that's a stupid way to think for me so once you suspend disbelief say okay well right those are those are not important details yet supported mean they could have gone to you or someone who really has knowledge in it and cleaned up those small aspects and still kept the theme of the story that's right they could have but they would make a different movie so that's slightly different I don't know if it's possible to make so you look at 2001 Space Odyssey I don't know if you seen that movie this with that's the kind of movie you will start if you talk to scientist that you start making those kinds of movies because

you can't actually use jargon that makes sense because we don't know how to build a lot of these systems so the way you need to film it and talk about it is with mystery is this Hedgehog right type like you almost you say very little yes leave it to your imagination to see what happened everything was in the open in terms of the actual construction of the brain when they had that form looking whatever gel brain a little bit more subtle mystery I think I would have enjoyed that movie lot more but the second time already because of you you said I think it's your favorite sci-fi movie is absolutely one of my favorite movies. I loved it again and also Sam Harris said that he also painted the movie and then washed again and liked it so I gave it to me so I get I give it a chance to see a movie again after you hate it

because maybe you're self-aware enough to think there's something unhealthy about the way I hated the movie like you're like introspective enough to know

it's like I have the same experience as Batman okay I watched which one dark night I think Kristen Bell so to me the first time I watch that is is a guy in the costume like speaking excessively with an accessory little voice and it is just something simple like a little bunny eared Not bunny ears but lately years it's so silly but then you go back and okay if we just accepted those that's the reality of the world we live in now what's the human nature aspects that are being spoiled here what is the the beautiful conflict between good and evil as being explored hair and what are the awesome Graphics effects that are being on the exhibit so if you can just suspend that as beautiful and I get the movie can become quite fun to watch but still on to me

not to offend anybody but Batman superhero movies are difficult still difficult for me to watch who's talking about that recently

the Kelly Kelly Slater yesterday yeah he doesn't he doesn't like superhero movies were talking about Batman about Christian Bale's voice and he's like the most ridiculous thing was that he's actually Batman games Batman anybody can do that voice. But I'm a hypocrite because now Game of Thrones or tokens Lord of the Rings I'm going to it's totally believable to me of course dragons well that's a fantasy world right that's the problem with something like Batman or even ex machina as it takes place in this world where is there in Middle Earth are in place it doesn't exist and if you it's like if you like Avatar if you make a movie about a place at

does not exist you can have all kinds of crazy shit in that movie cuz it's not real that's right yeah so

but at the same time like Star Wars is harder for me and you saying Star Wars is as a little more real because it's it's feels fusible like you could have spaceships flying around what's not feasible about Star Wars 2 oh I'm not I'll leave that one to Neil deGrasse Tyson night about the robot that circular that rolls around over the weekend no traction I like that's true and it was smooth tight the guy that made me realize you know the movie Ghost actually I did it was at this podcast to somewhere he was talking about the fact that so that this guy can go through walls right it's a beautiful romantic movie that everybody should watch right but he doesn't seem to fall through chairs when he sits on them

say you can walk through walls but he can put his hand on the desk and sit like his his butt has a magical Shield that is in this reality Quantum Shield that protects them from so that's fine too it's just cut the shit moments they don't have to be there you know you just have to work them out but the problem is a lot of movie Producers think that they're smarter than people they just decide I just put it in the average person is not going to care I've had that conversation with movie Producers about martial arts and I was like well this is just nonsense you can't do that like cuz I was explaining martial arts to someone and he was like the average person is not going to care I might go the average person maybe you brought me in as a martial arts expert to talk to you about your movie and I'm telling you right now this is horseshit yeah I'm a huge believer live Steve Jobs philosophy

where to get the average person discussion because first of all the average person will care

did Steve Jobs designed with really push the design of the interior of computers to be beautiful not just exterior even if you never see it if you have attention to detail to every aspect of the design even if it's completely hidden from the actual user in the end somehow that Karma whatever it is that like love for everything you do and that love seeps through the product in the same I think with movies if she talked about space 2001 Space Odyssey there's so many details I think that's probably these groups of people that study every detail that movie another Kubrick films those little details matter somehow they all come together to show how deeply

passionate you are about telling the story example. Because he would put layer upon layer upon layer of detail into films of people never even recognized like there's a bunch of correlations between the Apollo moon landings in The Shining you know it's like people that actually studied it to the point where they think that it's some sort of a confession that's Kubrick fake the moon landing could goes from the little boy having the rocket ship on a sweater to the the number of the number of the room that things happen is like a bunch of like very bizarre Connections in the film The two question B engineered cuz he was just a stupid smart man when he was so goddamn smart that he would do complex mathematics for fun the spare time cubic was legitimate genius and he engineered that sort of complexity into his films where he didn't have cut the shit moments in his movies

but I can recall

no not even close very interesting I am but that probably speaks to the reality of Hollywood today that the cut the shit moments don't effect of the bottom line of how much the movie makes it really depends on the film right I mean there's a cut the shit moments that Neil deGrasse Tyson found in gravity I didn't see because I wasn't aware of what the effects of gravity on a person's hair would be you know what he saw and he was like this is ridiculous and then they were some things like space station so close together I just let it slide detail about how Preposterous who would be the space stations were that close to get that you get to them so quickly that's with Sandra Bullock and George Clooney

did that pass muster with talked about I actually recently because of doing a lot of work when artificial intelligence and lecturing about it so on if plugged into this community of folks that are thinking about the future of artificial intelligence artificial general intelligence and they are very much out-of-the-box thinkers to wear the kind of messages I get are our best so I let it go I'd let them kind of explore those ideas with outside of engaging to those discussions I think very complex discussion should be had with people in person that's what I think and I think that when you allow comments just random Anonymous comments to enter into your Consciousness like you were taking risks and you may you may run into a bunch of

you know coming from people that I consider it thought these things through or you might just run into a river of assholes and it's entirely possible and it into my comments today on Twitter I was like what in the fuck a couple of some just morons and am I all right about something. Even know what the fuck they were talking about but but that's the risk you take when you dive in you going to get people that are disproportionately upset you going to get people that are disproportionately delusional or what whatever it is in regards to your position on something or whether or not they even understand your position will argue something that's an incorrect interpretation of your position for what I've heard you've actually been to the spa castles on really good at being open-minded and something I try to preach as well

so in AI discussions when you talkin bout a GI and talking about so there's a difference between narrow Ai and general artificial intelligence the kind of things that are the kind of tools that are being applied now I'm being quite effective and then there's generally I witches abroad categorization of Concepts that are human leveler superhuman level intelligence and then when you talk about AGI artificial general intelligence there seems to be two camps of people ones who are really working deep in it like that's the camp I kind of sit in and a lot of those folks tend to roll their eyes and just not engage in Chinese discussion the future that idea is saying it's really hard to do what we're doing and it's just really hard to see how this becomes intelligent

and then there's another group of people who say yeah but you're being very short-sighted that you may not be able to do much now but the exponential the heartache off overnight can become super intelligent and then I'll be too late to think about how the problem with those two camps as with any camps Democratic Republic any camps is they don't seem to be seen to be talking past each other as opposed to both have really interesting ideas if you go back to the analogy of touch of death of business idea of MMA right so I'm not in this analogy I'm going to put myself in the USA for a second in this analogy I'm you know like ranked in the top 20 I'm working really hard my dreams to become a world champion I'm training 3 times a day I'm really working I'm an engineer I'm trying to build my skills out and then there is other folks that come along with Steven Seagal and so on

that kind of talk about other kinds of martial arts other ideas of how you can do certain things and I think I think Steven Seagal and is not mine be onto something I think we really need to be open-minded like is Anderson Silva I think that talks is Steven Seagal or somebody to talk to Steven Seagal right Anderson Silva thinks Steven Seagal is

I'll put this in a respectful way he Anderson Silva has a wonderful sense of humor and Anderson Silva is very playful and he thought it would be hilarious if people believe that he was learning all this martial arts from Steven Seagal he also love Steven Seagal movies legitimately so treated him with a great deal of respect he also recognizes that Steven Seagal actually is a master of Aikido he really does understand Akito and was one of the very first westerners that was teaching in Japan speaks fluent Japanese was teaching at a dojo in Japan and is no legitimate Master Aikido the problem with its

it's one of those martial arts that has Merit in a in a vacuum it gives you if your in a world where there's no NCAA wrestlers or no Judo players or no Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belts or no more Thai kickboxers and there might be something to that Aikido stuff but in the world where all those other martial arts exist and we've examined all the intricacies of hand-to-hand combat it falls horribly short but see this is the point I'm trying to make you just said that we investigate of all the intricacies of the intricacies of hand-to-hand combat I mean you just speaking but you want to open your mind to the possibility that Aikido has some techniques that are factors that are effective that's correct that's not a correct way of describing it cuz there's always new moves that are being like Prince

in this recent fight between Anthony Pettis and Tony Ferguson Tony Ferguson actually used Wing Chun in a fight he trapped one of my hands and hit him with the elbow he basically used a technique that you would use on a Wing Chun dummy and he did it in an actual world class mixed martial arts fight and I'm watching it while going this crazy mother fucker actually pulled that off cuz that's it's a technique that you just rarely see anybody getting that proficient at it that that fights in MMA and Ferguson is it extremely creative and open-minded guy and he figured out a way to make that work in the world class fight so and let me then ask it a question

there's there's these people are still believe a quite a lot of them that there is the touch of death right this is so do you think it's possible to discover the process that is MMA that started pretty recently do you think not the touch of death but do you think we can get a 10 x Improvement in the model power the human body can can generate in in in punching not since I think you can get incremental improvements but it's all based entirely on your frame like if you're a person that has very small hands and narrow shoulders your kind of screwed there's not really a lot of room for improvement you can you can certainly get incremental Improvement in your ability to generate power but you'll never be able to generate the same kind of power as say a guy with a very big frame like Brock Lesnar or Derrick Lewis or you know anyone who has this like classic elements that go

with being able to generate large amounts of power wide shoulders large hands is that there's a lot of characteristics of the human frame itself even those people there's only so much power you can generate and we pretty much know how to do that correctly so the the way you're talking about as a martial arts expert now it's kind of the way a lot of the experts in robotics in the I talk about Ai and when the top of the touch of death is brought up now the analogies not perfect I tend to that you probably too many analogies is maybe another human body better that we know the possibility of a I assume so right the possibility of redesigning itself it's not obvious that that's true our imagination allows it to be true when I am of two minds

I am I am on both I can hold both believes that are contradictory in my mind one is that idea is really far away almost boarding and Bs and the other is it can be there overnight I think you can believe both those things so I'm there's another quote from Barbara wouldn't it's a poem I heard an electric somewhere that I really like which is it's from the champions of the impossible rather than the slaves of the possible that Evolution draws is creative Force

so I see almost as a representative of the champion of the impossible I see exponential growth of AI within the next several decades as the impossible but it's the champions of the impossible that actually make the impossible happen exponential growth of a I be impossible cuz that seems inevitable to me so it's not impossible I am serve using the word and possibly meeting magnificent but yeah it feels very difficult very very difficult when we don't even know where to begin like the touch of death actually feel to have a touchdown is horseshit but see you're interested we don't have the ability in the body to generate that kind of energy do you know that

let's keep question it's never been done we understand so much of ever been now how do you know it's never been done there could be someone out there with magic that I've got his Escape my micro know you started you've talked about was Graham Hancock and you talk about the history maybe was in Roman times there was that I did was discovered and it was lost because weapons and much more effective ways of of delivering damage now I find myself in a very uncomfortable position of Defending as a martial artist Define the concept of what martial arts did you study the hard ones absolute martial arts in my opinion this is what I mean like if you are a guy who just has a fantastic physique and incredible speed and ridiculous power cuz you just can generate

ridiculous power if you just are just up hurting you know do not Deontay Wilder heavyweight champion World boxer is undefeated guys Wilder has fantastic power I mean he just knocked people flying across the rain he's just I think Deontay Wilder if he just came off the street if he was 25 years old and no one ever taught him how to box at all and you just wrapped his hands up and had him hit a bag he would be able to generate insane amount of force now if you are a person that really didn't have much power and you had a box with Deontay Wilder and you were both of the same age and you are person that new boxing and you stood in front of Deontay it's entirely possible to Deontay Wilder could knock you into another dimension even though he had no experience in boxing if he just held on you and hit you with a Haymaker he might be able to put you out

if you are a person who is let's say built like you and a guy who exercises who strong and then there's someone who's 8 identically built like you who's a black belt in Brazilian jiu-jitsu and you don't have any experience in martial arts at all you're fucked right yes if a person is built like you who's a guy who exercises in is healthy and you grapple the guys even stronger than you and bigger than you but he has no experience in Brazilian jiu-jitsu he's still fucked that's the difference that's why I think Brazilian jiu-jitsu and Judo on wrestling in particular deals are absolutes in that you have control of the body and once you grab ahold of a person's body there's no lucky triangle chokes in Jiu-Jitsu

I think I would say Jiu-Jitsu is the highest representative that I think in wrestling and Judo having practice those I've never been quite as humble as I have been especially when I started I was like powerlifting I was like I was a total Meathead and you know a hundred 30 lb guy or girl can easily that's confusing it's very confusing in wrestling you can get pretty far with that we had power nap and then in Judo a little bit less so at its highest levels at if you go to Japan for example what state I mean the whole dream of Judo is effortlessly throw yeah I want it but in you know if you go to gyms in America and so on

you know there's some hard wrestling style gripping and just beating each other up pretty intensely where we're not talking about beautiful Which models are these beautiful throws were talking about some scrapping some on some resting Styles was very humbling when I first started out I was had a long background martial arts in Striking and even wrestled in high school and then I start taking Jiu-Jitsu and a guy who is my size and I was young at the time and he was basically close to my age just called me and he was even a black belt I think he was a purple belt in might have been a blue bow tie things are purple go out and just destroyed me just did anything you wanted to me choke me armbar just and I remember thinking man I am so delusional I thought I had a chance like I thought just based on taking a couple classes and learning what an arm

where is and then being a strong person who has a background of martial arts that I would be able to at least hold him off a little bit now and it says that's so beautiful that I feel lucky to have that had that experience of having my ass kicked in Philadelphia is what I came up with because in science you don't often get that experience in space of ideas you can't you can't choke each other out you can't get each other off and Science and so it's easy to go your whole life has so many people around me telling me how smart I am is the there's no way to actually know if I'm smart or not cuz I think I'm full of BS and in the same in the same realm is as fighting there's no it's at what Hixon Gracie said it needs is a horse from Misawa bear or somebody that the math doesn't lie there's this deep honesty in it that was really grateful most like wanting

any talk about Bullies Are you talk about or even just my fellow academics could benefit significantly from training a little bit I think so too it's a beautiful thing to almost I think it's been talked about in high school that are requiring it to be honest and wrestling cuz you could in wrestling like I said get away with with some muscle it's also what martial arts are supposed to be in that a small person who knows technique and eat a big person who doesn't know the techniques right that's what we always hope for right when we saw the Bruce Lee movies and Bruce Lee who is a smaller guy could be all these bigger guy just cuz he had better technique that is actually real in Jujitsu and it's one of the only martial arts where that's real

yeah and I have been in Philadelphia start out with you had Steve Maxwell here I sure that's kind of words that was the spring of jets in Philadelphia he was one of the belts in Jiu-Jitsu like way back in the day I believe he was a black belt in the very early 90s when Jiu-Jitsu is really just starting to come to America and he had maxercise in Philadelphia are there and then I train to balance which is she Grace you folks are still more glorious regular A's logo Brothers couple black balls that come up together is there

what are smaller the little guys I think those are the guys that really humbled me pretty quickly little guys are the best to learn technique from yeah because they can't rely on strength there's a lot of really big powerful you know 250lb you just you guys who never are going to develop the sort of subtlety of technique that some like what do you mean I'll Brothers like smaller guys who just died from the very beginning they've never had an advantage and weight and size and so they've never been able to use anything but perfect technique Eddie Bravo's another great example that to you know he he competed in the hundred 40 lb 145 lb class

no but to get back to artificial intelligence so the idea is that there's two camps or there's one camp that thinks that the exponential increase in technology and that once artificial intelligence become sentient it could have been chilly improve upon its own design and literally become a God in the short amount of time and then the school of thought that thinks that is so far outside of the realm of what is possible today that even the speculation of this eventually taken place is kind of Ludacris to imagine exactly the balance needs to be struck because I think I'd like to talk about some of the short-term threats that are there but it's really important to think about but the long-term threats if they come to fruition will overpower everything night that's really important to think about but what happens is if you think too much about

the encroaching Doom of humanity there's some aspect to it that is paralyzing where you almost it turns you off from actually thinking about the these ideas if there's something so appealing like a black hole that pulls you in and if you notice folks like Sam Harris and so on spend a large amount of the time to talk about the negative stuff about something that's far away not to say it's not wrong to talk about it but they spend very little time about the potential positive impacts in the near-term and also the negative impacts the near-term so let's go over those yep fairness so that the more and more we put decisions

about her lies into the hands of artificial intelligence systems whether you get a loan or in autonomous vehicle context or in terms of recommending jobs for you on LinkedIn or all these kinds of things that idea of fairness Becomes of bias in in these machine Learning Systems becomes a really big threat because the way current systems function is they train on data so there's no way to for them to somehow

gain a greater intelligence than our than the data we provide them with so we provide them with actual data and so they carry over if we're not careful to buy season that data the Discrimination that's inherent in our current Society is represented by the data so they'll just carry that forward also

so there's people working in this am or so to say to show really the negative impacts in terms of getting a loan

weather to say whether this particular human being should be convicted or not of a crime or there's there's ideas there that can carry you know in our criminal system there's discrimination and if you use data from that chronosystem to then assist the ciders judges juries lawyers in making this and come in and make a decision of what kind of penalty person gets there going to carry that forward so you mean like racial economic vices racial economic him geographical that's a so I don't say that but the exact problem but it's you're aware of it because of the tools were using it only

the two ways that I'd like to talk about

neural networks was going to jail sure okay so the current approaches are there's been a lot of demonstrated improvements exciting new improvements in our advancements of artificial intelligence and those are for the most part have to do with you on that work something has been around since the 1940s is gone to AI Winters where everyone was super height and then super bummed and super hyped again and bombed again and now we're in this other hype cycle and what your Network star is these collections of interconnected simple compute units there all similar it's kind of like it's inspired by Alan brainware have a bunch of the neurons interconnected and the idea is the connections are really dominant and random but if you feed it with some data they'll learn to connect just like they're doing our brain in a way that interprets add data they form representations that I dated and

make decisions but there's only two ways to train those neural networks that we have now

one is we have to provide a large dataset if you want then you'll know what to tell the difference in the cat and dog you have to give it ten thousand images of a cat and 10000 of a dog

you need to give it those images and who tells you what a picture of a cat and a dog is its human so it has to be annotated so s teachers of these artificial intelligence systems west of collectors data left to invest significant amount of effort and annotate that data and then we teach me on that works to make that prediction what's not obvious there is how poor of a method there is to achieve any kind of Greater degree of intelligence you're just not able to get very far besides very specific narrow tasks of cat versus dog or should I give this person alone or not these kind of simple simple tasks I would argue autonomous vehicles are actually beyond the scope of that kind of approach and then the other realm of where in your network can be trained

is if you can simulate that world so if the world is simple enough or is conducive to be formalized sufficiently to where you can simulate it so game of chess it's just it's it's those rules game go there's rules so you can see me later they had the big exciting thing about Google deepmind is that they were able to beat the world champion by doing something called competitive self play which is the two systems play against each other they don't need the human they play against each other but that only works and that's a beautiful idea and super powerful and really interesting and surprising but that only works on things like games and simulation so now if I wanted to

sorry to be going to analogies like UFC for some if I wanted to train the system to become the world champion beat what's his name nurmagomedov I can play the UFC game

I can create that a great to know that works at play that use compared to self pay to play in that virtual world and they could become state-of-the-art the best fighter ever in game but transferring that to the physical world we don't know how to do that we don't know how to teach systems to do stuff in the real world some of the stuff that freaks you out often is Boston Dynamics robots does that every day I go to the Instagram Pages go what the fuck you guys doing so I thought he is causing self a bad boy of Robotics he's having a little fun with it he should definitely stop doing that don't call yourself a bad boy of anything that's just how old is he is okay he's one of the greatest vices of Our Generation

so you're not the bad boys I'm I'm a butt but definitely not a bad boy silly

yeah the those robots are actually functioning in the physical world that's what I'm talking about and they are using something called I was I think wind I don't know 70's or 80's the term good old-fashioned AI meaning there is nothing like going on that you would consider artificially intelligent which is usually connected to learning so these systems aren't learning it's not like you dropped a puppy into the into the world and kind of stumbles around and figure stuff out and learn is better and better and better and better that's the scary part that's the imagination than that that's what we majan is we put something in this world at first it's like harmless and falls all over the place and also need to figure something out and like you on my says that travels faster than whatever they can only see with ProGlide there's no learning component there

this is just purely there's hydraulics in the electric motors and there is 20 to 30 degrees of freedom and it's doing hard-coded control algorithms to control the task of how do you move efficiently through space so this is the topic about Assist work on a really really hard problem is taking a robotic manipulation taking arm grabbing a water bottle and lifting it super hard somewhat unsolved to this point and learning to do that we really don't know how to do that right but this is what we're talking about essential is the convergence of these robotic systems with artificially intelligent system and as artificial intelligence intelligence systems evolve and then this convergence becomes complete you're going to have the ability to do things like the computer that beat humans at go have creativity

you're going to have a complex understanding of language and expression and you're going to have me perhaps even engineer things like emotions like jealousy and anger I mean it's and it's entirely possible but as you were saying we're going to have systems that could potentially be by us the way human beings are biased towards people of certain economic groups are certain Geographic groups and you would use that data that they have to discriminate just like human beings discriminate what if you have all that in an artificial intelligence robot that has autonomy that has the ability to move this is what people are totally concerned with and terrified of is that all these different systems that are currently in semi crude States they can't pick up water bottle yet they can't really do much other than they can do backflips but they do not make sure you've seen this month the more recent Boston Dynamic ones parkour yeah that's all that one of the day

getting better and better and better and it's it's increasing every year every year this day have new abilities did you see that Black Mirror episode heavy metal yeah and I think about quite a lot because

a functionally it has we know how to do most aspects of that right now right now because there's some kind of pebble shooting situation where it like hurts you by shooting you somehow I figured episode of how terrifying it would be if some emotionless robot with Incredible abilities is coming after you and wants to terminate you and I think about that a lot because I love that episode because it's it's terrifying for some reason but when I sit down and actually in the work we're doing think about how we would do that so we can do the actual movement of the robot we don't know how to do is to have robots that

do the full thing which is have some have have a goal of pursuing humans and eradicate mm not spoil all over the place

I think the goal of erratic any human so assuming their values are not aligned somehow that's one we don't know how to do that and to is the entire process of just navigating all over the world is really difficult so we know how to go up the stairs but to say how to navigate but the path you took from home to the studio today how to get to the full path is so much and I'm solve problem but is it because you could engineer or you could program it into your Tesla you can put it into your navigation system and have it stopped at red lights drive for you take turns and it can do that so first of all that I would argue is quite far away from still but that's within 10-20 years but what can I do now it can stay inside the lane on the highway or different roads and it can change mine and was being pushed now is there trying to be able to enter and exit the highway so

it's some basic highway driving it doesn't stop at traffic lights it doesn't stop at stop signs and it doesn't interact with the complex irrational human beings pedestrians cars that's this is the onion I talked about is we first in 2005 the DARPA Grand Challenge organized this challenge in the desert says let's go across the desert let's see if we can build and Thomas vehicle that goes across the Desert 2014 did the first one and everybody failed talking about I'm the smartest people in the world have tried and failed so they did again 2005 there's a few Stanford one is it really bad ass guy from seeing you read it I think it's like a marine he led the team and it's exceeded the 14th finish Stanford one that was in the desert and there was this feeling that we saw the time of driving

that's that onion because you then okay what's the next step we got a card to travel across the desert autonomously what's the next so then 2007 they did the urban grandchild of the Urban Cowboy Urban challenge where are you drove around the city a little bit and again super hard problem people took it on CMU one that won the Stanford 2nd Avenue

and and then I was definitely feeling like yeah we had a car drive around the city it's definitely solved the problem is those cars were traveling super slow first of all and second of all there's no pedestrians

there's no it wasn't real City it was an artificial it's just basically having to stop and different size again one other layer of the onion and he said okay will match you have to put this car I said you like La how we're going to make this work

because if there's no cars in Street and no pedestrians in the street driving around is still hard but doable and I think solve all the next five years when you put pedestrians everybody jaywalks if you put human beings into into this interaction if it goes much much harder now it's not impossible and I think it's very doable and was completely new interesting ideas including revolutionising infrastructure and rethinking of Transportation General is possible to do the next 5-10 years maybe 20 but it's not easy like everybody says and does anybody say it's easy

yeah this this there's a lot of hype between autonomous behind of x equals you almost himself and other people have promised to Thomas vehicles that time I was ready pass has been going on in 2018 will have a Thomas Vehicles now like if they see pedestrians are supposed to break for them and avoid that that's part of the technically no was that an issue with an Uber car that hit a pedestrian that was operating on Thomas Lee someone to homeless person stepped out off of median right into traffic and it and nailed it and then they found out it didn't have one of the settings was in a place that's right but that was an autonomous vehicles being tested in Arizona and unfortunately is a fatality person a person died

so what happened there

that's the that's the thing I'm saying is a hard that's full autonomy that's Technically when the car you can remove the steering wheel in the car to drive itself and take care of everything everything I've seen everything we're studying so we starting drivers and Tesla vehicles we're building our own Vehicles it seems that it will be a long way off before I can solve the fully autonomous driving probably because of pedestrians and two things in pedestrians and cyclists and the edge cases of driving all the stuff we take for granted the same reason we take for granted how hard it is to walk a hardest to pick up this bottle or intuition about was hard and easy is really slow as human beings all cars were autonomous if we got to a point where every single car on the highway is operating off of a similar algorithm off the same system then things to be far

you're right because then you have to don't don't deal with random kinetic movements people just changing lanes people looking at their cell phone and I'll pay attention what they're doing all sorts of things you have to be wary of right now driving and pedestrians and bicyclists that's that's in the realm of things I'm talking about where you think outside the box and and revolution is there transportation system that requires government to to play along that's going that way they all right to feel like the one day we're going to have autonomous driving to pretty much everywhere especially on the highway that it's not going there in terms of its it's very slow moving so if Government that stuff very slow moving with infrastructure one of the biggest things you can do for autonomous driving will solve a lot of problems is to paint Lane markings regularly and even that have been extremely difficult to do for from comfort for ya for

father bride because right now there's not really the desire for it to explain to people what you mean by that when the lanes are painted very clearly the cameras in the autonomous vehicles can recognize them and stay inside those wings much more easily yeah there is two ways that car see the world three different sensors the big ones for autonomous vehicles is lidar which is the latest being shot all over the place in 360 and they can give you this point Carter how far stuff is away but they don't give you the visual texture information all this is what brand water bottle they are and cameras give you that information so what Tesla's using that's 8 cameras I think

is they perceive the world with quiz with cameras and those two things require different things from the infrastructure those two sensors cameras see the world the same art Azar human eye see the world so they need Lane markings they need infrastructure to be really nicely visible traffic lights to be visible so the same kind of things us humans like to have is the cameras like The Have and LaMarcus a big one the other there's there's a lot of interesting infrastructure improvements that can happen like traffic lights are traffic lights are super dumb right now they sense nothing about the world about the density of pedestrians about the approaching cars if if

if traffic lets you communicate with the car

which it makes perfect sense it's it's right there beside no size limitations it can have a computer inside of it you can coordinate different things in terms of the same production kind of problem but we have sensors now and streets so when you pull up to certain lights specially at night the light will be ready to pull up at instantaneously turns green because it recognizes that you stepped over or driven over sensor that's right it's so that's a that's a step in the right direction but that's really sort of crew 20 years 30 years ago technology so you want to have something like the power of smartphone inside every traffic light it's pretty basic to do but there is way outside of my expertise is how do you get government to do these kinds of improvements mistake and correct me if I'm mistaken but you're looking at things in terms of what we can do right now and a guy like Elon Musk for Sam Harris the saying yeah but look at where technology leads

if you go back to 1960 the kind of computers that they use to do the Apollo Mission you got a whole room full of computers that doesn't have nearly the same Powers up phones in your pocket right now now if you go into the future and exponentially calculate like what's going to take place in terms of our ability to create autonomous vehicles our ability to create artificial intelligence at the end all of these things going from what we have right now to what could be in 20 years where we very well might look at some sort of an artificial being that can communicate with you some sort of ex machina type creature then that's that's not outside the realm of possibility at all

you have to be careful with the edible part that all its ability to predict the future is really difficult but I agree with you it's not outside around possibility and the thing there's a few examples that brought along just cuz I enjoy these predictions to the the the elf how bad we are predicting stuff from the very Engineers the very guys and gals like me sitting before you made some of the worst predictions in history and in terms of both pessimistic and optimistic the Wright brothers one of the Wright brothers before they flew in 1903 predicted two years before that you'll be 50 years

I confess that in 1901 that's one of the brothers talkin I said to my brother Oroville that man would not fly for 50 years 2 years later we are cells were making flights this demonstration of my inability as a prophet gave me such shock that I have ever since the stressing myself and have refrained from all prediction that's one of the Wright brothers what are the people working at pessimistic estimation versus an optimistic X explanation or at exactly the same with Albert Einstein from Mystic observations For Me 3 years before they the first critical chain reaction is part of the he led the venue clear than develop in the bomb he's he said that it would seem Impossible 2 years before okay so that's on the pessimistic side on the optimistic side the history of a eyes Laden with the with Optimus of predictions

in 1965 one of the Seminole people in the AI for overtime and said machines will be capable than 20 years of doing any work a man can do he also said within 10 years digital computer will be the world chess champion in 58 and we didn't do that until 90-something 90s top 40 hits one person which eBay since off of our imagination possible right now right and if you look at the passes are really bad predictor of the future if you look at the past

what we've done did an immense advancement of technology has giving us in many ways optimism about was possible but exactly what is possible we're not good at so I am much more confident that the world will look very fascinating me different in the future whether a I will be part of that world is unclear it could be we will all live in a virtual reality world but or for example one of the things I'm really think about

is to me I really dumb AI on 1 billion smartphones is potentially more impactful than a super intelligent AI on one smartphone the the the the fact that everybody know have smartphones this kind of access to information the way we communicate the the globalization of everything the potential impact there I'll just even subtle improvements in the I could be in any could completely change the fabric of our society in a way where these discussions about an ex machina type lady walking around will be silly because we'll all be either living on mars or living virtual reality or you listen to so many exciting possibilities and what I believe in is when I think about them like to talk about them

technologies always the source

danger of risk

do all of the biggest things that threatened our civilization at the small and large scale all connected to misuse of Technology we develop at the same time is that very technology that will empowers and save us so there's a Max tegmark Brewing guy like 3.0 I recommend people read his book on our general intelligence he talks about the race that there's a there's a race that can't be stopped one is the development of technology and the other is the development of our wisdom of how to stop or how to control the technology and it's this this kind of race and our wisdom is now is always like one step behind

and then that's why we need to invest in it and keep sort of keep always thinking about you ideas so right now we're talking about AI we don't know what it's going to look like in 5 years but to keep thinking about left to go through simulations for different ideas to conferences have debates come up with different approaches of how to solve particular problems I guess I would buy us or how to solve deep fakes where you fake you can make Donald Trump or president before President Obama say anything or you can have Facebook advertisement Harper hyper targeted advertisements how we can deal with those situations and constantly have this race of wisdom verses the development of Technology but not to sit and think

well look at the you know look at the development of Technology imagine what it could do in 50 years and we're all screwed

because that's important to sort of be nervous about it in that way but it's not conducive to what do we do about it and the people that know what to do about it

are the people trying to build this technology building the future once that blurs out what to do about it cuz it's put in terms of Elon Musk Elon Musk is terrified of of artificial intelligence could you think by the time I become sentient it'll be too late it'll be smarter than us and we'll have essentially created our successes and it let me quote Joe Rogan and say that's just one guy will Sam Harris thinks the same thing is just a lot of collagen sucide is one of the most impactful people I know he's actually building these cars and in the narrow way I sense abilities autopilot system that we've been studying

the way that system works is incredible is very surprising to me on many levels it's an incredible demonstration with a I can do in a positive way in the world so I don't know people can disagree I'm not sure the functional value of his fear about the possibility of the spell if he's correct dysfunctional value in hitting the brakes before this takes place the digits just to be a person who's standing on top of the rocks with a light to one the boats hey there's a rock here like a pay attention to where we're going because there's perils ahead I think that's what he sang then I don't think there's anything wrong with saying that I think there's plenty of room for people saying what he saying and people saying what you're saying I think what would hurt us is if we try to sign on to either voice I think what we need in terms of are under

standing of this future is many many many many many of these conversations where you're dealing with the the current state of technology versus a bunch of creative interpretations of where this could go and have discussions about weird should go or what could be the possible pitfalls of any current or future actions I don't even see anything wrong with this so when you say like what's the benefit of thinking in a negative way what's to prevent our demise so totally I agree 1% and negativity or worry about the existential threat it's really important to have as part of the conversation but there's this level this is why it's hard to put into words is it as a line that you cross when that worried becomes hyperbole yeah and it there's something about human psyche where it becomes paralyzed in for some reason

when I have beers in my friends than 90 ifocus we actually go we cross that line all day and have fun with it I talked about you may regret every moment of it does I talk to Steve finger and let me know his book kind of highlights that

that kind of that she's totally doesn't find that appealing because that's Crossing all rounds of rationality and reason we save that across in line into what will happen 50 years happen because he's studied and I'm not sure I agree with him at to the degree that he takes it he finds that there's no evidence he wants there to all our discussions to be grounded in evidence and data and he he highlights the fact that there's something about human psyche that desires this negativity that it wants

there's there's something in deny but we want to create an engineer the gods that overpowers and destroy us we want to or we worry about it we let me rephrase that we want to worry about it there's something about the psyche that but that cuz you can't take the genie and put it back in the bottle when you say there's no reason to think this way but if you do have cars that are semi-autonomous now and if you do have computers that can beat human beings were world go Champions and if you do have competed computer so I can be people at chess and you do have people to consistently working on artificial intelligence you do have Boston Dynamics for getting these robots to do all sorts of spectacular physical stunts and then you think about the possible future convergence of all these Technologies and then you think about the possibility of this exponential increase in technology that allows

them to be sentient like within a decade two decades three decades what what more evidence do you need your you're seeing all the building blocks of a potential successor being laid out in front of you and you're seeing what we do with every single aspect of Technology we constantly and consistently Improvement of it right with everything whether it's computers or cars or anything everything today is better than everything that was 20 years ago so if you looked at artificial intelligence which does agreed does exist to a certain extent and you you look at what it could potentially be a 30 40 50 years from now whatever it is why wouldn't you look at all these data points and say hey this could go bad when it could go great but it could also go back

I do not want to be mistaken as a person who is not the champion of the impossible I agree with you completely it can get two possible

I don't I think it is inevitable yes

it's the Sam Harris argument if if superintelligence is nothing more than information processing same as the argument of the simulation that we living in a simulation that's very difficult to argue against the fact that we live in a simulation the question is when and what the world would look like so it's it like I said Erase and and it's difficult you have to balance those two minds I agree with you totally yeah and I disagree with my fellow robotics folks who don't want to think about it all the new houses they got a lot of money invested in this adventure they want to keep the party rolling they don't want to pull the brakes how everybody pull the cord out of the walls we got to stop no one's going to do that no one's no one's going to come along and say hey we we run all this data through computer we found that if we just keep going the way we're going in 30 years from now we will have a successor that will decide that uman beings are outdated and inefficient and dangerous city at the actual

world that we live in and we can start wiping them out but if that's not if someone did come to the UN and had this multi-stage presentation with data that showed that if we continue on the path we're going we have 7 years before artificial intelligence two sides to eliminate human beings based on these data points what do you what do they do what are the Boston Dynamics people do while building a house in Cambridge what are you talking about man I'm not going anywhere come on that's what I need to finance this thing hell yeah I got credit card bills I got student loans I'm still paying off how do you stop people from doing what they do for a living how do you say that hey I know that you would like to look at the future with rose colored glasses on but there's real potential Pitfall that could be the extermination of the human species

and obviously I'm going way too far with this I like it I think everyone of us trying to build these systems are similar in sound to the way you were talking about the touch of death

in that my dream and the dream of many roboticist is to create intelligent systems that will improve our lives and work really hard at it not for house in Cambridge not for a billion dollar for selling a start-up paycheck we love the stuff some of you obviously the motivations are different for every single human being that's involved in every Endeavor so and was trying really hard to build these systems and is really hard so whenever they're the question is well this is going to look at historically is going to take off if you can potentially take off any moment it's very difficult

to really be cognizant as an engineer about how it takes off because you're trying to make it take off the positive direction and you're failing everybody is failing it's been really hard and so you have to acknowledge that there that an overnight some yellow mustard character might come along and you know people that is boring company or was SpaceX people didn't think anybody but not so I could do what you're doing and he's doing it it's hard to think about that too much you have to do that but the reality is we're trying to create the super intelligent beings chore but isn't the reality also that we have done things in the past because we were trying to do it and then we realize that these have horrific consequences for the human race like Oppenheimer in the Manhattan Project you know when he said I am death destroyer of worlds

when it when he was quoting the Bhagavad Gita when he's detonating the first nuclear bomb and realizing what he's done just because something is possible to do doesn't necessarily mean it's a good idea for human beings do it now we haven't destroyed the world with oppenheimer's Discovery and through the work of the Manhattan Project we've managed to somehow or another keep the lid on this shit for the last six rideable you know I mean for the last what's 70 years how long has it been 10 thousand thousand oaks right now I could kill everything on the planet and somehow somehow somehow in some amazing way we have not but that doesn't mean we I mean this a very short amount of time in relation to the actual lifespan of the Earth itself and certainly in terms of the time human history been around and nuclear weapons

global warming is another one is a side effect of our actions right this effect of human Ingenuity and Innovation the nuclear bomb the direct effect we tried to make it we made it there Coast global warming send accidental consequence of human civilization so you can't

I don't think it's possible to not build build a nuclear bomb you don't think it's possible to not build it is because people tribal this week different languages to have different desires and needs and they were in war so if all these Engineers are working towards it it was not possible to not build it yet and then like I said there's something about us Champs in a large Collective where we are born and push forward towards progress of Technology cannot stop the progress of technology so the goal is to how to develop how the guy that development run into a positive direction but surely if we do understand that this has taken place and we did drop these enormous bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki and killed untold amounts of innocent people with these detonations.

it's not necessarily always a good thing to pursue technology it nobody is so that I can see what I'm saying because what I'm saying is you guys are looking at these things like we're just trying to make these things happen and what I think people like Elon Musk and Sam Harris and a bunch of others that are gravely concerned about the potential for a I are saying is that's I understand what you're doing but you've got to understand the other side of it you got understand that there are people out there that are terrified that if you do extrapolate if you do take this Relentless thirst for Innovation and keep going with it would you look at what we can do so what human beings can do so far in Ark rude manner of to 2018 with all the amazing things have been really accomplished it's entirely possible that we might be creating our successors this is not outside the realm of possibility

and all of our biological limitations might be we we might figure out a better way and this better way might be some sort of an artificial creature with our Dream to forge the gods I would like I think that is impossible to stop

Boston Pops. If you go Ted Kaczynski kill all the people that's what Ted Kaczynski anticipated now the Unabomber do you know the whole story behind him know he's a fast any cat here's what it was a bunch of fascinating things about him one of the more fascinating things about him he was involved in the Harvard LSD studies so they were nuke in that dude's brain with acid and then he goes to Berkeley becomes Professor takes all his money from teaching and just makes a cabin in the woods and decides to kill people that are involved in the creation of Technology because he thinks Technologies eventually going to kill off all the people so he becomes crazy and schizophrenic and who knows what the fuck is wrong with them and whether or not this would have taken place inevitably or whether this was a direct result of his being literally like drowned in LSD even know how much they gave him a experiment and tailed or how many other people got their brain torched during these

but we do know for a fact that Ted Kaczynski was a part of the Harvard LSD studies and we do know that he went and did move to the woods and write his Manifesto and start blowing up people that were involved in technology and the basic thesis of his Manifesto that perhaps I was the open his eyes to is that technology is going to kill all humans yeah and so we should be the end of the human race I think I believe the master for the human race yeah he extrapolated he was looking at where we're going and these people that were responsible for Innovation and he was saying they're doing this with no regard for the consequences on the human race and he thought the way to stop that was to kill people obviously fucking demented but this is I mean he literally was saying what we're saying right now

you keep going we're fucked so the Industrial Revolution have to think about that it's a really important message coming from the wrong guy but is just taking us where is it take so I guess my underlying assumption is the journey the current capital structure of society

that we always want a new iPhone just had one of the best reviewers on yesterday at that always talks about Marcus Marcus we always myself to picks up three I'm having pixel 2 I'm thinking maybe new pixel 3 but I don't know better camera do you know that whatever that is that fire that wants more butter butter I just don't think it's possible to stop in the best thing you can do is to explore ways to guided tours safety where it helps us when you say it's not possible to stop you mean collectively as an organism like the human race it it's a tendency to just built in it's certainly possible stop as an individual because I know people like my friend re who's giving up on smartphones he went to a flip phone and he doesn't check social media anymore and you found it to be toxic he didn't like it he thought it was too addicted to it and he didn't like where was leading him as possible individual level but then and just like

not texting ski and the individual level as possible to do certain things that try to stop at more dramatic ways I just think the force of our this the simile out of this organism that's just the living breathing organism that is our civilization will progress forward we're just curious Apes it's his desire to explore the universe why why do we want to do these things why do we look up and we want to traveling and it's not I don't think it's sort of weird trying to optimize for survival in fact I don't think most of us would want to be immortal they think they said Neil deGrasse Tyson talks about the fact they were mortal the fact that one day we'll die is one of the things that Gives Life Meaning and so they're trying to worry and I'm trying to set of say wait a minute where is this going as opposed to riding wave and doing riding the wave of forward progress and is one of the things

he gets quite a bit of ironically heat for it's the thinker but he really describing data how our world is getting better and better with me just get state from people that don't want to admit that there's a trend towards things getting better because they feel like 10 people ignore all the bad things that are happening right now and all the Injustice is which I think is a very short-sighted thing but I think it's because of their own their own biases the the perspective that they're trying to establish and push instead of looking at things objectively and looking at the Dayton say say I see where you're going it doesn't discount the fact that there is Injustice in the world in crime and violence and also terrible things happen to good people on a daily basis but what he saying is just look at the actual trend of civilization in the human species that sell and there's an undeniable Trend towards peace

slowly but surely working towards peace way safer today way safer today than it was a thousand years ago just it is it just is interesting argument which kind of blew my mind to this funny jokes as I did some people consider giving you clear the atom bomb the Nobel Peace Prize Because he believes I'm not miserable he believes that settle for some people believe that nuclear weapons are actually responsible for a lot of the decrease in violence because all the major people can do damage all the Russia and all the major states do damage have a strong disincentive from engaging in Warfare anticipate so

I think it's him it's very difficult to stop that for Progress we have to really worry and think about okay how do we avoid the list of things that we worry about so one of these people really worried about is the control problem is basically a i becoming not the silly super intelligent but super powerful but too much of our Lives into into it that's right you know I'm asking others that want to provide regulation of some sort saying wait a minute you have to put some bars and what this thing can do from a government perspective from a company perspective how could you stop Rogue States from doing that I could use why would you why would China listen to us why would Russia listen to us why would other countries that are capable of doing this and maybe don't have the same sort of power that the United States has and it would like to establish that kind of power why wouldn't they just take the cap off

in philosophical high level since there's no reason but if you engineer then I'm a big

we do this thing with the thymus Vehicles called arguing machines to have multiple AI systems argue against each other so it's possible that you have so many eye systems over supervising other AI systems so have a son of a like in our in our nation there's a congress arguing blue and red States being represented in this discourse going on debate and have a eye systems like that too it doesn't even need to be one super powerful thing it could be a supervising each other thing ideas there to play with because ultimately one of these artificial intelligence systems doing we humans Place power into their hands first offense to run away with it we need to put Power into their hands less to figure out how we put that power in initially but doesn't run away and how supervision can happen but this is us what about other people why would the engineer limitations there are

official intelligence who what incentive would they have to do that to somehow another limit their artificial intelligence to keep it from having as much power as ours if there's really not a lot of incentive on their their side especially if there's some sort of competitive Advantage for their artificial intelligence to be more ruthless more sentient more autonomous mean it's it seems like once again once the Genie's out of the bottle can be very hard I have a Siri in this is a very bizarre Theory but I've been running with this for quite a few years now I think human beings are some sort of a caterpillar I think we're creating a cocoon and through that cocoon we're going to give birth to a butterfly and then we're going to become something and I think we're weather we going to have some sort of a symbiotic connection to these electronic things were they going to replace our our parts are failing Parts with far superior Parts until we're not really a person anymore like what was that Scarlett Johansson movie The Ghost in the Shell

I try to watch part of it's pretty stupid but she's hot as fuck so I kept my attention for a little bit but in that they took her brain and put it in this artificial body that was like had superpowers and they basically replaced everything about her that wasn't her Consciousness with these artificial Parts at the Gurnee Oliver frame everything was just some new thing it was far superior and she had these abilities that no human being will ever have I really wonder why we have this insatiable there why can't we were so logical we're so logical and so thoughtful in some ways why can't we be that way when it comes to materialism why I think one of the reasons why is because materialism is the main engine that pushes Innovation if it wasn't for people's desire to get the newest latest and greatest thing what would fun these new TVs cell phone

computers why do you really need a new laptop every year is it because of engineered obsolescence where the laptop dies off and you have to get a new one cuz they fucked you and they build a shity machine it's designed to die so you buy a new one you really like iPhones on you because you're you know you just see the number to .6 gigahertz is better than 2.4 the new one it has a 12 megapixel webcam instead of an 8 and if for whatever reason we have this desire to get those new thing I think that's what fuels Innovation and my cynical view of this thing that's happening is that we have this bizarre desire to fuel our demise and that we're doing so by fueling technology by by motivating these companies to continually innovate know if everybody just said you know a man I'm really in the log cabins

want to buy an axe or I can cut my own firewood and I realize the TVs rotting my brain I just want to read books so fuck off and everybody started doing that and everybody started Living it like when it gets dark out I'll use candles and you know what I'm going to get my water from a well and you know what I'm going to do I like living better that way if people started doing that there would be no need for companies to continually make new computers to make new phones to make new smart watches or whatever the fuck that they're making to make cars that can drive themselves

these things that were there were really really attached to if you looked at the human organism another could have ejected Lee remove yourself from society and culture and all the things that make us a person and you look at what we do look what is this thing do we found this planet is this little pink monkeys and brown monkeys and yellow monkeys and put it all into a all seem to be into making stuff and what kind of stuff are they making will they keep making better and better stuff it's more and more capable where's it going what's going to replace them they're going to make a thing that's better than them they're going to do engineering these things slowly but surely to do all the things they do but doing better yeah and it's not a serious it's a constructive way to think about intelligence in life. If you step back look across human history and look at our Earth is an organism that what is this thing doing

the thing is I think at at in terms of scale and in terms of time you can look that way it's so many things like isn't there are billions or trillions organisms on our skin right now both of us there have little civilizations right they have a different mechanism by which they operate interact with the first to say that we're intelligent those organisms or not it's a very narrow side of you today are operating under some force of nature that I was at the Darwin's work on I'm trying to understand some small elements of this is evolutionary theory but there's other more interesting forces that play that we don't understand short and there's some kind of force is it could be a fundamental force of physics that I said I never got a chance to discover is our desire for an iphone update some some fundamental forces of nature but somehow gravity in the strong force in these things described by physics add up to this drive for new

things for creation and the fact that we die the that that the fact that were mortal the fact that would desires a built-in to us whether it's a sexual or intellectual or whatever drives this apes and somehow that all combines to this

this progress and toys what is it is a compelling way to think that it if an alien species did visit Earth I think they would probably see the smartphone situation they see how many little lights are on in Hollis Apes you're looking at them it's possible I think some people have said that they would think the overlords of the phone's not the people so to think that that's now moving in your direction where the future will be something that is beyond human or sabbatical too many ways we can understand

is is really interesting not just that but something that we're creating are selling yourself and it's a main focal point of our existence that's our purpose I mean if you think about a main focal point if you think about the the average person what they do there's a great percentage of our population that has jobs where they work and one of the ways that they play Kate themselves doing these things they don't really enjoy doing is earning money for objects they want a new car they want a new house they want a bigger TV they wanted this or that and the way they motivate themselves to keep showing up at this shitty job is to think if I just put in three more months I can get that Mercedes if I just do this or that or that I can oh I can Finance this new pixel 3 who yeah and it's interesting because politicians

dream is for you hear this thing I want my children to be better off than me that's kind of desire you know you can almost see that that taken farther and farther will be there will be a presidential candidate is in 50 hundred years I'll say I want my children to be robots and you know what I mean like this idea that Brad is the highest calling of our species that scares me because I value my own life but does it scare you if if it comes out perfect like if each robot is like a God and each robot is beautiful and loving and they they recognize all the great parts of this existence and they avoid all the jealousy in the nonsense and all the stupid aspects of being a person we realize that a lot of these things are just sort of biological engineer tricks that are designed to keep us surviving from generation after generation but now here in this fantastic

uh we don't need them anymore yeah it's well first one of the most transformative moments of my life was when I met spot many in person which is one of the two legged robots in Boston Dynamics the first time when I met them

I meant that little fella there was I know exactly how it works I know exactly how every aspect to it works it's just a dumb robot but when I met him and you got up and you looked at me tennis Arthur Dance Now engineered it's obvious it's programmed but it's crazy to watch like wow there's something the reason the moment of transformative I know exactly how it works and yet by watching it something about the feeling of it you like this thing is alive and now where's the terrifying moment not terrifying with terrifying and appealing where this is the future right like this thing

like this thing represents some future that is totally that we don't cannot understand just like a future in the 18th century future with planes and smartphones with something you could understand that this thing that little dog could have had a human consciousness in it that was this feeling I had and I don't exactly how it works is nothing close to the intelligence but it just gives you this picture of what the possibilities are of these living creatures and I think that's what people feel when they see Boston Dynamics awesome this thing running around is I don't care about the technicalities and how far away we are they see it look this thing is pretty humid in the possibilities of human-like things that supersede humans and can evolve and learns quickly exponentially fast is this terrifying Frontier that

that really makes us think as it did for me maybe terrifying is a weird word because when I when I look at it and I'm not a rational and I look at theirs theirs videos that show the progression of Boston Dynamics robots from several years ago to today with their capable of and it's it is a fascinating thing because you're watching all the hard work of these engineers and all these people that have designed the systems and have figured out all these problems at these things and counter and it comes with Solutions and they continue to innovate and they're constantly doing it you're seeing is probably like wow what would have been seeing a year when we have seen 3 years what I want to see you in 5 years it's absolutely fascinating because if you extrapolate you just keep going boy you go 15 20 30 50 a hundred years now you have ex machina

yeah yeah that's my kinda and at least in our imagination the problem is they'll be so many other things that are super exciting and interesting short but that doesn't mean it's not crazy I mean there's many other things you could focus on also that are also going to be bizarre and crazy sure but what about it just it it's going somewhere that sucker is getting better. The park or one is bananas you see it happen from boxed box and left to right and leaping up in the air anyway I think there's any wires on it so I connected to anything it's just jumping from box-to-box is that thing had a machine gun it was running across the hill at you you'd be like oh fuck how long does it's battery lasts how many bullets does it have let me just say that I would take 10 Kennedy over that dog for the next 50 years

so I'm a bit I'm talking about that but he'll probably have some robotic additions to his body to improve the

if the brain is Tim Kennedy's and he still Tim Kennedy yesterday we think about it but there is huge concern about his meeting about this is autonomous weapons it it it's it's along the eye to make decisions about who lives and who dies is really concerning in the short-term it's not about a robotic dog with a shotgun running around it's more about our military wanting to make destruction as efficient as possible minimizing human life and drones drones there's something really uncomfortable as me about drones in how are compared with Dan Carlin Hardcore History Genghis Khan

there's something in person about what drones are doing with its moves you away from the actual destruction that you're achieving where I worry that our ability to encode the at fixing to these systems will go wrong and ways we don't expect and so folks if you want to talk about when you have these automated for drones that make

that drop bombs over a particular area so the bigger and bigger the area is over which you allow an artificial intelligence system to make a decision to drop the bomb the weirder and weirder I guess there's some line there's like three tanks that you would like to destroy with a drone it's okay for AI system to say I would like to destroy the street like I'll handle everything you just give me the three tanks but not this makes me uncomfortable as well because I think I'm supposed to most words but it's just military military and they try to get the job done now what if we now expand that to 1020 a hundred times

Where Are You Now Lady a system drop bombs all over very large areas how can that go wrong

and that's terrifying and is practical engineering solutions to that oversight and there's that something that is nearest Sedonas and Engineering ethic where you and coding you have meetings how do you make a safe that's why you worry about thing that keeps me up at night is the 40,000 people that die every year and auto crashes like that's I worry about not yet understand like I worry about the future of AGI taking over but that's not as long as you keep abusing for this but maybe because I'm in it I worry more about the 40,000 people that died in the United States in the 1.2 million that die every year from auto crashes there's something

that's more real to me about the death of happening now that could be helped and that's the fight

but of course if the thread becomes real then

then that's a much you know that's a serious threat to to humankind and that's something that should be thought about I just worry that

I worried also about the AI winter so much and has been to Winters in the 70s and the 80s the 90s when funding completely dried up but more importantly just people stop getting into artificial intelligence and became cynical about his possibilities because there is a hype cycle what everyone is really excited about the possibilities of a i and then they realize till 5:10 years into the development that we didn't actually achieve anything it was just too far off too far off same as it was for virtual reality for the longest time virtual reality was something that was discussed like even in the 80s and the 90s but it's just died off nobody even thought about it now it's going back to the Forefront when there's real AI a real a real virtual reality that you can use like HTC Vive sore you know things on those lines we can put these helmets on and you really do see these alternative worlds that people have created in these video games and it's you realize like this a practice

location for the stop because of technology is caught up with the concept yeah and I actually don't know where people stand on VR would you quite a bit of stuff for the VR for research purposes for simulating or box systems but I don't know where the hype is I don't people calm down a little bit on VR so there was a hype in the eighties and nineties I think it's quite a bit more than just those two headsets that you can and there's some you can use just with a Samsung phone correct the Next Generation next year to two are going to be all a standalone Systems computer for at all so the ultimate and fear and game Fear The Event Horizon of that is the Matrix right that's that's what people terrified of some sort of a virtual reality world we don't exist in the physical sense anymore they just plug something into the brainstem just like they do in The Matrix

dear you just walked into this artificial world is that terrifying to you as it said seems to be less terrifying than a i killing all of humankind what depends I mean

what is life that's the real question right if you only exist inside of a computer program but it's a wonderful program and you you whatever your Consciousness is and we have a really established with that is right we don't we don't I mean there's a lot of really weird hippie ideas out there but what Consciousness is your body just like an antenna man and just like tuna into Consciousness and Consciousness is all around you it's Gaia it's the Mother Earth it's the universe itself it's God it's love okay maybe I don't know but be sure to take that whatever the fuck it is and send it in a cell phone to do Zealand is that where your Consciousness is now because like if we figure out what Consciousness is and get it to the point where we can turn it into a program or duplicate it I mean that's sounds so far away but if you went up to someone from 1820 and said hey man one day I'm going to take a picture of my dick and imma send it to this girl she's going to get it on her phone the book the fuck

talking about what's a photo like a picture but I like you don't draw it it's perfect it looks exactly like that it's an HD and I'm going to make a video of me taking a shit and I'm going to send it to everything like what the fuck is that even possible get out of here that is essentially you're capturing time you're capturing moments in time to break. Not a very crude sense but a crude sense in terms of comparing it to the actual world in the moment where it's happening like hear you and I are having this conversation we're having it in front of this wooden desk this paper in front of you to you and I we have access to all the textures the sound we can feel the air conditioning we can look up we could see the the the the the ceiling will where where we got the whole thing in front of us cuz we're really here but too many people that are watching this on YouTube right now

they're getting a minimized crude version of this that's similar but if it's pretty close it's pretty close so I I mean I've listen to a podcast for a while you usually have so when I listen to a podcast it feels like I'm sitting in with friends listening to a conversation does not as intense as example Dan Carlin's Hardcore History by the guys like talking to me about the the darkest aspects of human nature. It's an experience you're there I was I was hanging out with him and Genghis Khan and I was in World War One Way talks very dark ideas about our human nature and Desiring

Do You observe ation of the torture and suffering of others there's something really appealing to us he has this whole episode how throughout history will you like watching people die and there's something really dark you're saying that if somebody streamed something like that now it would probably get hundreds of millions of views on nature cuz we understand the destructive aspects of it that's why you two would pull something like that if you tied person in between two trucks and pull them apart and put that on YouTube who can millions of hits from YouTube would pull it cuz we've decide as a society collectively that those kind of images are gruesome and terrible for us but nevertheless that experience of listening to his podcast last show it feels real just like VR for this really strongly real affix to it where I'm not sure

I'm not sure that if the VR technology gets much better to wear if you had a choice between do you want to live your life and be are you you're going to die just like you would and in real life me and your body will die you just going to hook up yourself to a machine like it's a deprivation tank and just all you are is in VR and you're going to live in that world which life would you choose

would you choose its life in the ER or would you choose a real life decision in The Matrix right the guy decided in The Matrix he wanted to be a special person in The Matrix who's eating that steak talk in the guys and decided he's going to give up member that yeah yeah yeah what's a good decision you make I mean what is reality if it's not what you're experiencing if you're experiencing something but it's it's not tacked on the sense of you can't drag it somewhere and put it on a scale and take a ruler to it and measure it but in the moment of being there it seems like it is is missing what is missing well it's not real what is real then what is real but that's the ultimate question terms of like are we living in a simulation that's one of things to Elon brought up when I was talking to him and this is one thing that people struggled with if we are one day going to come up with an artificial reality it's indiscernible from reality in terms of emotions and terms of experiences

feel touch smell all the sensory input that you get from the regular world if that's inevitable if one day we do come up with that how are we to discern whether or not we have already created that and we're stuck in it right now that we can't and it's a lot of philosophical Arguments for that but gets it because we're okay we're totally clueless about what it means to be real I'm pretty sure I'm on The Joe Rogan Experience Podcast I'm pretty sure is not real I'm imagining all that there's a knife in front of me I mean it's surreal and I have no proof that is not faking and those kinds of things actually coming to play with the way we think about artificial intelligence to that what is intelligence it seems like

it seems like we're easily impressed by by algorithms and robots we create that appeared to have intelligence but we still don't know what is intelligent and how close those things are to us and we think that ourselves as this biological entity that can think and talk and cry and laugh that we are somehow or another more important then so some sort of silicone-based thing that we create that does everything that we do but far better yeah I think I think it if I were to take a stand so right stand I hope I'm young one day run for president this platform by the way that defending the right so I can't cuz I'm rushing but maybe they'll change the rules that's that you know robots will have right

and I see no robots lives matter

and I actually believe that we're going to have to start struggling with the idea of how we interact with robots I seen too often the abuse of robots and not just the Boston Dynamics but literally people you leave them alone with the robot that dark nature of the dark aspects of human nature comes out and it's boring to me I would like a robot that sparse but only can move it like 50% of what I can move on so I can fuck it up yeah she's like really well you would develop like some awesome like sparring instincts that I would still be consequences like if you did fuck up and you got lazy in it like kicked you didn't check it it would hurt

I would love to see like a live stream of that session because you know this so many ways I used to have practice on a dummy dummy that's helpful in terms of positioning and where you at where your stance is and technique into it I could certainly that go wrong and ways to wear a robot might not respect you typing or well it's hard to beat you to death this is tired of you fucking it up every day and one day you get tired or what if you sprained your ankle and it gets on top of the mountain to start the blast unidays Atlantic you a hooker something I might just be able to say stop well then you're going to have to use your Martial Art to defend yourself right because if you make it too easy for the robot to just stop in time then you're not really going to learn like one of the consequences of training if you're out of shape is if you get tired people fuck you up and that's incentive for you to not get tired like there's so many

times that I would be in the gym or doing I think about moments where I got tapped or guys caught me in something that I was exhausted I couldn't get out of triangle and like shit and I just fucking I just really push on the treadmill or and I'll push on the bike or whatever it was it was doing thinking about those moments getting tired yeah that's what I think about when I do like Francis the the feeling of competition those nerves are stepping in there

Justin it's really hard to that kind of visualization but it is at your building a feeling of consequences to you not having any energy so you have to muster up the energy because if you don't you're going to get fucked up or something bad's going to happen to someone you care about or something and something's going to happen to the world may be a superhero you saving the world from the robots to bring some back around what what is it what is this life and what is consciousness and what is his experience and if you can replicate this experience in a way that's indiscernible will you choose to do that like if someone says to you hey

wax you don't have much time left but what would we have an option we have an option and we can take your Consciousness as you know it right now put it into this program you will have no idea that this is happened you're going to close your eyes you going to wake up going to be in the most beautiful Greenfield Scooby naked women everywhere feasts everywhere you go is going to be just picnic tables filled with the most glorious food you going to drive around Ferrari everyday and fly around a plane you never going to die you have a great time or take your chances see what happens when the lights shut off well first of all I'm a simple man I don't need multiple women one is good I'm romantic I got another world we can breathe underwater and fly through the air and you know I believe

that scarcity is the fundamental ingredient of Happiness so if you give me 72 virgins whatever it is and I'm not a slideshow a requirement you know somebody intelligent and interesting who enjoy sexual intercourse when I just enjoy sexually for you a person well that and keeps things interesting next week an engineer all this into your experience as you don't need all these different women I get it I understand. This program for you don't worry about it okay you want one more and then normal car like maybe a Saab or something like that nothing crazy but somebody could beat you every now and then right yeah but not just Jess so engineer some flaws like she needs to be able to lose her shit every once in awhile

the girl in the red dress which girl in the red dress on the red dress like the one that catches his attention remember this this is right at the very beginning when he's telling him what the Matrix is that she is damn that's a girl the guy after telling you it's just not

it's not well yeah but then I have certain features like I'm not an iPhone guy I like Android so that that may be an iPhone person's girl that's nonsense

I know if an iPhone came on those better than Android you wouldn't want to use it so I might just definition of better is different like I know for me the happiness lies within Android phones Android phones close connection with other human beings are flawed but interesting core passion about what they do yeah that's it that's I'm requesting features here cuz your Android phones is that like I'm a republican, Democrat tribal not moving trucks totally not drivable I was just representing if I figured the girl in the red dress just seems like an iPhone as a feature set imagine the kind of features I'm asking. Yeah and it seems like she's not interested in dust of yeskey you know of you just because she's beautiful

tight fitting dress I don't know what that's how are you you sexy son of a bitch she did her PhD in astrophysics possibly do that Bamm I'll take her all day iPhone and she's a Windows Phone how about that I don't give a fuck Windows Phone Motorola RAZR phone was like 37 minutes of battery life but we're talking about all the Learned experiences and preferences that you've developed in your time here and there's actual real Earth or what we're assuming is the actual real Earth but how are we I mean if your if you really are taking into account the possum

the one day something someone whether it's artificial intelligence figures it out a we figured out engineering

a world

some sort of a simulation that is just as real as this world like where there is no there's no it's impossible to discern not only is it not in pain. Always impossible to discern people choose not to discern anymore because it's so what why bother why bother Discerning that's a fastening concert to me but I think that world not the song hippie or anything but I think that I think we live in a world that's pretty damn good that is pretty good so but improving it with such fine fine ladies walking around is not necessary the Delta that's positive aspect of the Improvement what about improving it in the in this new world there's no drone attacks in Yemen that killed children there's no sexual harassment there's no there's no racism is know any all the negative aspect of our current culture engineered out I think I think

a lot of religions of struggle with this and of course I would say I would want a world without that but part of me thinks that our world is Meaningful and because of the suffering in the world that's a real problem isn't it that's a real it's that is a fascinating concept it's almost impossible to ignore do you appreciate love because of all the hate you no one like if you have a hard time finding a girlfriend and just no one's compatible and I'm single by the way the ladies know but if you if you do have a hard time connecting with someone when you finally do connect with someone off after all those years of loneliness and this person perfectly compatible with you how much more will you appreciate them then I got like Dan Bilzerian was flying around a private jet bang and tens all day long yeah or maybe he's fucking drowning in his own sorrow maybe he's got too much too much Prosperity you know

now works to the people that I mean you're pretty famous the amount of love you get is huge it's so it might be because of the Overflow of love it might be difficult appreciate more like genuine little mama to Lug and for me know I spend a lot of time thinking about that and I also think that I'm thinking about how Titanic Lee bizarre my place in the world is I mean I think about it a lot and I spent a lot of time being poor and being a loser remind my childhood was not the best I went through a lot of struggle when I was young that I cling to like a safety rat raft you know I don't I don't ever think there's something special about me and I try to let everybody know that you anybody could do what I've done if you just have to just keep going the other the Sig 99% of this thing is just showing

up and keep going keep improving keep working at things and keep going put the time in the interesting thing is you haven't actually a couple days ago went back to your first podcast and listen to it you haven't really changed much

so you are staying the audio got a little better and but just like the you're the genuine nature of the way you interact hasn't changed and that's fascinating because you know Fame changes people from Fear Factor I was already already had stand-up comedy specials I already had already been on a sitcom I wasn't as famous as I am now but I understood but it is a big believer in adversity and struggle I think they're very important for you it's one of the reasons why I appreciate martial arts it's one of the reasons why I've been drawn to it as a learning tool not just as something where it's a puzzle that I'm fascinated to try to figure out how to get better at the puzzle and martial arts is a really good example because you never really the best specially when it's just how many people doing it just like you're always

I get beat by guys and then I was never I was never putting the kind of time into it as an adult outside of my Taekwondo competition I was never really putting all day everyday into it like a lot of people that I would train wood inside always get dominated by the really bad guys so this certain amount of humility that comes from that as well but there's there's a struggle in that you're learning about yourself and your own limits and the limits of the human mind and endurance and just not understanding all the various interactions of techniques and then you don't there's some disability to that in that I've always describe martial arts as a vehicle for developing your own human potential but I think Marathon running as similar aspects I think when you're just you figure out a way to keep pushing and push through the control of your mind and your desire and overcoming adversity with overcoming adversity is critical for

be good for humans we we have this

this these the set of reward systems that are designed to to reward us for overcoming for overcoming obstacles for overcoming relationship struggles for overcoming physical limitations and those rewards are great and they're some of the most amazing moments in life when you do overcome and I think this is sort of engineered into the system so for me Fame is almost like a cheat code it's like you don't really want a don't dwell on that man like that that's like a free buffet like you don't you know you want to go hunt your own food you want to make your own fire you want to cook yourself and feel the satisfaction you don't want people feeding you grapes while you lie down what is the hardest thing you talk about challenge a lot what's the hardest thing you

when will have you been really humbled martial arts for sure the the most really good at taekwondo but even then I'd still get the fuck beating out of me by my friend's got training part especially you're tired and you're doing and you're rotating partners and guys are bigger than you just just humbling you know martial arts are very humbling and I got to call you out on something

he talked about education system sometimes I've heard you say is a little broken in high school and so on

and I like going out I just want to talk about it cuz I think it's important and it's somebody who loves math they talked but your own Journey was school didn't I give you

passion value you can talk to that but I hate for me what I always and maybe I'm sick in the head or something but for me math was exciting Way Martial Arts were exciting for you because it was really hard I wanted to quit and the idea of Education I have that that that seems to be flawed nowadays a little bit is that we want to make education easier

that we want that make you no more accessible to Juan accessible course is great but you kind of forget in that in that those are all good goals you forgetting that that it's supposed to be all so hard and like teachers just the way your wrestling coach if you like quit you say I can't do anymore I have to come up with some kind of excuse you wrestling coach looks you wants to say get your ass back on the mat the same way I wish math teacher did that when people say it's almost like cool now to to say is not Matt sucks that's not for me or science sucks as Blissey just boring I think they're just there's room for some culture or says no no no your not if you just put in the time and you struggle then that opens up to University you like other you become a Neil deGrasse Tyson or the next Fields Medal winner in mathematics I would not argue with you for one second I would also say that one of them are beautiful things about human beings is that we very

so much and that one person who is just obsessed with playing the trombone and to me I don't give a fuck about trombones but that's okay like I can't be obsessed about everything some people love golf and they just want to play it all day long I've never played golf a day in my life so miniature golf and just fucking around but that doesn't it's not bad or good and I think there's there's definitely some skills you learn from mathematics that are huge African if you want to go into type of field that you're involved in for me it's never been appealing but it's not that it was just difficult it's also that it just for whatever reason who I was at that time in that school with those teachers having life experience that I had that was not what I was drawn to it but I was drawn to his literature I was drawn to reading I was drawn to stories I was drawn to possibilities and creativity I was drawn to all those things

you are an artist of it used to be I just want to be a comic book illustrator that was that was a big thing when I was young I was really into comic books I was really into

is traditional comic books and also a lot of the horror comics from the 1970s of black and white like creepy and Eerie did you ever see those things creepy and Eerie like black and white like a comic book series that existed like way back in the day with all their all horror and they were like really cool illustrations of these wild stories but it was comic books but they were all black and white that's creepy and Eerie eerie and creepy where it says September to doesn't say what year when I used to get these when I was a little kid man I was like eight nine years old in the 70s good and evil it was my favorite like that's a cover of them and like these have eye covers that were done by like Frank Frazetta Boris Vallejo and just really cool shit and I was fat

those who I love those when I was little I was always really in the horror movies and really into like brand Blakely this werewolf one that was one of my favorite ones that was a crazy werewolf it was like all fours who's the hero usually superhero Heroes everybody everybody gets there was no one guy I figured it out and rescue the woman they wrote off in the sunset but if you turn the corner they be a fucking pack of wolves with glowing eyes were waiting it to everybody apart and that'll be the end of the book and that I just I was just really into the illustrations I found the fasting and I just I love those kind of horror movies and I love those kinds of Village that's what I wanted to do and I was gone and I think the education system is probably it we talked about creativity is probably not as good at

inspiring and feeding that creativity cuz I think math and wrestling can be taught systematically I think creativity is something more actually I know nothing about it so I think it's harder to take somebody like you when you're young and say and inspire you to pursue that fire whatever is inside one of the best ways to inspire people is by giving them

giving them these Alternatives that are so

uninteresting like saying you're going to get a job selling washing machines in like fuck that I'm going to figure out a way to not get a job selling washing machines like some of the best motivation to have ever had have been terrible jobs cuz you have these terrible jobs are going okay fuck that I'm going to figure out a way to not do this you know and what are you going to call me or whatever it is it makes kids squirming class I didn't score in every class I didn't squirm and science class I didn't squirm in you know an interesting subjects there's things are interesting to me but I would be locked in completely fascinated by and there's things were I just couldn't wait to run out of that room and I don't know what the reason is but I do know that a lot of what we call our education system is engineered for very specific result that result is you want to get a kid who can sit in class and learn

so they could sit in a job and perform and that for whatever reason that was just I mean I didn't have the ideal childhood maybe maybe if I did I would be more inclined to lean that way but

I didn't want to do anything like that like I couldn't wait to get the fuck out of school so I did never have to listen to anybody like that again and then just a few years later I mean you graduate from high school in your 18 when I was 21 I was a stand-up comic and I was like I found it this is it am I good I found There's an actual job but nobody told me about what you could just make fun of shit and people go out and they pay money to hear you create jokes and routines and bits in this car. It's different the consequences on his grave but that's why are they not like a fair assessment pummeled mean there's there's that you can say like emotionally it's probably more devastating or as everything the man losing a fight is it sucks you out for a long time

shit for a long time but then you win you feel amazing for a long time to when you kill on stage I feel good for an hour or so and then goes away feels normal normal it's just life you know but I think that it prepared me a competing in martial arts the fear of that and then how hard it is to like to stand opposite another person who's the same size as you who is equally well trained was also martial arts expert and they ask you where you ready are you ready to battle each other and then they go fight and then you can we go like that to me probably was like one of the best prep in to do that from the time I was 15 till I was 21 was probably the best preparation for anything that was difficult to because it was so fucking scary and then to go from that into stand-up I think it's prepared me for stand up cuz I was already used to doing things that was scary and now I seek scary

things out I see I seek difficult things up which is really difficult not even to play pool pool is very difficult very difficult to control your your nerves and high-pressure situations so that there's there's there's some benefits of that but they get but it goes back to what you were saying earlier how much of all this stuff like when you're saying that scarcity there's there's real value and scarcity and that there's real value in struggle and how much of all this is just engineered into our human system that it has given us the tools and the incentive to make it to 2018 with the human species yeah I think it's whoever things in your is whether it's God or nature or whatever it think it's engineered in some out that's we get to think about that when you try to create an artificial

intelligent system imagine what's a perfect system for you we talked about this with with the lady what's the perfect system for you really put down on paper and engineer what's the experience of your life will you start to realize it actually looks a lot like your current life so this is the problem that companies are facing like Amazon and try and create Alexa what do you want from Alexa do you want a tool that says what the weather is or do you want Alexa to say

Joe I don't want to talk to you right now I have Alexa you have to work over Alexa come on what do I do I'm sorry sensitive I was tired of the commute was really rough and they should be like I'm seeing somebody else

the movie Avatar and depression is a psychological effect after the movie so I'm using this psychologist I loved A lot of people in Pocahontas with blue people to those people I say fuck off do you want to talk about suspension of disbelief that to me that movie was the ultimate suspension of disbelief I love that movie I fucking love I can't I know James Cameron's work on like 15 sequels right now all simultaneously I was at motherfucker would Dole the map he's like a crack dealer that get you hooked just waiting outside in the cold shivering for years Avatar Depression was a psychological term that psychologist were using to describe this massive influx of people that saw that movie was so enthralled by the way the navi lived

in Pandorum that day they came back to the stupid world they wanted to be like the blue guy and have a talk and it also there was a there's a mechanism in that film where this regular person became an Avi he became it through the Avatar and then eventually that tree of life or whatever it was they transferred his Essence into this creation is Avatar and he became one of them he became one of them absorb their culture and it was very much like our romanticise the versions of the Native Americans that they lived in symbiotic relationship with the Earth they only took what they needed they they had a spiritual connection to their food and to Nature into the gist of their existence it was was noble and it was honorable and it wasn't selfish and it was powerful and it was spiritual and that we're missing these things

will missing these things and I think we are better at romanticizing them and craving them as opposed to live in them as you look at movies like happy people with the life in the Taiga animals in nature focusing on simple survival setting traps for Animals cooking some soup my family around you and just kind of focusing on the basics but and I'm the same way like I go hiking and nature I would love to pick up hunting and I want him crave that but if you just put me in the forest I'll probably going to be like here I'm taking your phone away and you're staying here that's it you never going to return to your Facebook and your Twitter and your and your robots I don't know if I'll be so romantic about that notion anymore

I don't know either but I think that's also the genie in the bottle discussion I think that Gene he's been out of the bottle for so long that you've been like what am I Facebook live I got some messages cuz I want to check my email real quick no no no we're in the forest there's no Wi-fi out here no Wi-fi ever what the fuck how do people get your porn that's another understudied again not an expert but the impact of Internet pornography on culture and also ignored to certain extent and if not ignored definitely purposefully

left out of the conversation yeah there's another PhD student person from Google came to give a tech talk and you open and by saying 90% of you in the audience have this month Google the pornographic terminar search engine

and is really I just great opener because people were just all really uncomfortable in fact I think there's a suppression aspect of that too that's unhealthy we we we have a suppression of our sexuality because we think that somehow or another it's negative you know and especially for women I mean for whipped women like a man a man who is a sexual conqueror is thought to be a stud where is a woman who seeks out multiple desirable sexual partners is thought to be trouble to something wrong with her you know date their criticized there they use terms like we used earlier like slut whore whore you know there's no you called man I'm mail slot I'll start laughing she hung up that's me dude like men don't give a fuck about that it's not it's not stigmatized but somehow or another through our culture is Sting

house for women and then the idea of masturbation is stigmatized these all these different things that we are Puritan roots of our society start showing and our religious ideology start showing when we discuss our

are issues that we have with sex and pornography right and for me this is something I think about a little bit because my dream is to create an artificial intelligence a human-centered artificial intelligence system that provides a deep meaningful connection with another human being and you have to consider the fact that pornography or sex sex dolls will be part of that Journey somehow and Society something you're the dummy they will be using for martial arts would likely to be in child development of sex robots and have to think about what's the impact of those kinds of robots on society to sex robots article written by women about sex robots in the possibility of future sex robot and the ocean to violently but it's always negative so is the idea that men would want to have sex with some beautiful thing

that's program to love them as opposed to earning the love of a woman but you don't hear that same interpretation from men from men it's it seems to be that there's a thought about maybe it's kind of gross but also that it's inevitable and that and then there's like this like sort of Nod to it like how crazy would that be if you had that the perfect woman like the red one the one in the red dress The Matrix comes over your house and she's perfect because you're not thinking about the alternative which is a male robot doll which will now be able to satisfy your girlfriend wife better than you

I think you'll hear from guys a lot more then maybe or maybe you'll start competing she's always yelling at me let her yell at the robot he doesn't he's not going to care that robot turns into a grappling and maybe she can get to be your slave good both ways the same way that a man would you know a woman would see a man that is interested in a sex robot to be disgusting and pathetic a man could see the same thing in a woman that's interested in the sex robot like okay it is that is that what you want to do some crude thing that just wants a physical pleasure and you don't even care about a real actual emotional connection to a biological human being like okay well then you're not my kind of woman anyway

well those are the kinds of it in terms of threats of AI to make it you can change the fabric of society because like I'm old school and it sends I like I like monogamy for example you know what he said I could have a girlfriend so your girlfriend is because it is fasting with people like you actually with boy that you are my sky the time is is a huge challenge because because of how much a romantic I am because how much I care about people around me I feel like it's a significant investment I'm also the amount of work do you do I mean the if you are or if you're dedicated to a passion like artificial intelligence and the sheer amount of fucking studying and researching and programming to Nest disciplines in which you have to turn disciplines require Lexi empresso talks about writing get pretty far with two three hours a day when your programming when your

they just take a Bowers it's just hard which is why I really want one of the reasons I may disagree with you on my school but what you things but he's an inspiration cuz I think he's a pretty good dad right and he finds the time for his son's while being probably normalizing to busier than I am and it's fascinating to me how that's possible once you have children I mean they're obviously a people that have bad Dad's but once you have children your life shifts in an almost

it's an Indescribable way because you're you're different it's not just that your life is different when you have a child like your daily there isn't a moment while we're having this conversation that I have to think about my children singing about what they're doing where they are it's always running in the background it's a part of life you

you're connected to these people that you love so much and they rely on you for guidance and for for warmth and affection and how did you laugh have to change would you like you just change that we see the baby change when you when you start feeding them you change when you hold them you change when you you hold their hand while they walk you change when they ask you questions you change when they laugh and giggle you change when they smack in the face and you pretend to fall down they laugh you change you know every that you just changed man you change the do you become a different thing you become a dad she almost can't help but the people do help it though that's what's sad some people resist it I mean I know people that have been terrible terrible parents they just they'd rather stay out all night and never come home and if they don't want to take care of their kids and they get they split up with the wife or the girlfriend who's got the kid and they don't give child support himself really common

damn man there's a lot of men out there that don't pay child support that's a dark dark thing you have a child out there that needs food and you don't want you're so fucking selfish you don't want to provide resources not only do you not want to be there for companionship you don't want to provide resources to pay for the child food you don't feel responsible for me that was my case when I was a kid my dad didn't pay child support and we were very poor it's one of the reasons why we were so poor and I know other people that I've had that same experience so it's not everyone that becomes a father or that impregnates I should say a woman and becomes of a friend and the other side is True to this women that are terrible mothers for whatever reason mean maybe they're broken psychologically maybe they have mental health issues with whatever it is there's some women that are fucking terrible mom's and it's sad but it makes you appreciate women that a great mom so much more

you don't get it when I see you guys like you at the inspiration is some looking for

set of structural what's the process to them fit people into your life but what I hear is when it happens you just do not live in in the book doesn't always happen like you have to decide that you wanted to happen and you got to go looking for it because if you don't you could just be older and still alone time goes a lot of my friends that they've never had kids and now they're in their 50s many comedians have to be obsessed with comedy like it's it's got to be something you're you're always writing new jokes because you're always writing a new Express if you put out a special right you feel like I just did and Netflix special it's out now so I'm not really have like a half hour new material that's it and special washed it was acting really weird decide to go on a tangent but listen to you quite a bit but I have never looked at you doing comedy

and I was so different cuz like here you're just like like improvise jazz musician care it's like a regular conversation the stand up special it was clear like that's like everything is perfect the timing is like watching you do a different art almost like a song or something there's some Roofing to it there's some improvisation to it but it's also there's a very clear structure to it but if that's what that's theirs it's so time intensive and you have to you got to be obsessed with it to continue to do something like that so for some people that travel in the road that takes priority over all things including relationships and then you never really settle down and so you never you never have a significant relationship with someone that you can have a child with and I know many friends that are like that and I know friends have gotten vasectomy so they don't want it they like this life and there's nothing wrong with that either you know I always was upset

by this notion that in order to be a full and complete adult you have to have a child you have to be a parent and I think even as a parent where I think it's probably one of the most significant things in my life I reject that notion I think you could absolutely be a fully developed person and amazing influence on society and amazing a contributor to your culture in your community without ever having a child with your man or a woman it's entirely possible the idea that it's not a silly like we're all different in so many different ways you know and we contribute in so many different ways likes them there's going to be people that are obsessed with mathematics is going to be people that are obsessed with literature that's going to be people that are obsessed with music and they don't all have to be the same fucking person cuz you really have enough time for the be the same person you know and there's there's going to be people that love having children and love being a dad or love being a mom and there's going to be people that don't have nothing to do with that naked snipped early and they're like fuck off I'm going to smoke cigarettes and drink booze and I'm going to fly around the world and talk shit

and those people are okay to like which way we interact with each other that's most important that's what I think that the way human beings to do we form bonds and friendships the way we we contribute to each other's lives the way we we we find our passion and create those things are what's really important

yeah but did there's also an element just looking at my parents I think they got their still together at the gotten together what it means standard to get together when you're like 20 or nationalist 2320 whatever young and there is an element there where you don't want to be too rational

he's going to be just dive in Bryant should you be an MMA fighter should you be like the pay is much much lower than all the offers I'm getting non-stop as a rational I don't know what your passion is doing what you're doing currently yeah but it's like it's one of the other offers like what kind of other jobs and are they appealing and anyway yeah yeah they're peeling so I am making a decision that's similar to actually getting married which is so it says officer Google call NAPA Google face with the usual the usual AI research pretty high positions and the

I'm just something in me that says the edge the chaos of this environment at MIT is something I'm drawn to it doesn't make sense so I can do what I'm passionate about on a lot of places you just kind of dive in Napa I had a sense that a lot of our culture creates that momentum he just kind of got to go with it and that that's why my parents got together like a lot of people there probably I mean a lot of couples wouldn't be together if they weren't kind of culturally forced to be together in the divorce was such a negative thing they grew together and be creative super happy connection so I'm a little afraid of over rationality about choosing the path of life so you're saying like monogamy doesn't know or not monogamy relationship don't always make sense to make sense you know what I think I'm a big believer in doing what you want to do and if you want to be involved in a monogamous relationship I think you should do it but if you don't want to be involved

I think you should do that too I mean if you want to be like a nomad and travel around the world and just leave out of a backpack I don't think there's anything wrong with that as long as you're healthy and you survive and you're not depressed and you're not longing for something that you're not participating in but I think when you are doing something you don't want to be doing it it brings me back to was it the rose quote I guess I was fucked up who made what most men live lives of Silent desperation that's that's real man that's real that's real you. That's what you don't I think it's the wrong right

you don't want silent desperation. I fucking love that quote because I've seen I seen it in so many people's faces and that's one thing I've managed to avoid and I don't know if I avoided that by luck or just buy back I'm stupid and I just I just follow my instincts weather there right or wrong or and I make it work but

this goes back to what we were discussing when it in terms of what is the nature of reality and what what are these are the are we just finding these romanticized interpretations of our own biological needs and our human reward systems it's creating these beautiful visions of what is life and what is important poetry and food and music and all the passions and dance singing holding someone in your arms you care for deeply and I just little tricks are all those little biological tricks in order to just keep keep on this very strange dance of human civilization so that we can keep on creating new and better products that Keep On Moving Innovation towards this ultimate eventual goal

artificial intelligence to the gods yes so you know I did mention one thing about the one thing I really I don't understand fully but I've been thinking about for the last couple years as the application of artificial intelligence to enter politics

I've heard you talk about God being broken in a sense that one guy one president that doesn't make any sense like hundreds of millions of likes on their Facebook pictures and Instagram and where was Voting with our fingers every single day and then yet for the election process it seems that we're voting like once every four years it feels like this new technology could bring about a world where the voice of the people can be heard on a daily basis like where you could speak about the issues you care about whether it's gun control and abortion all these topics are so he leads so debated is feel something used to be an Instagram for election I agree you know and I think there's room for that I've been thinking about how to write a few papers are proposing different Technologies it just feels like the people that are playing politics need to

are old school the influencers right if you look at Instagram I mean should Nicki Minaj be able to decide how the world Works cuz she's got the most followers should Kim Kardashian like who's influencing things and why and you have to deal with the fickle nature of human beings and give enough patience towards the decisions of these so-called leaders that were electing do adored you just decide fuck them they're out new person in cuz we have like a really short attention span when it comes to things especially today the new cycle so quick so the same process so Instagram might be a bad example because yeah you get or Twitter you start following the Donald Trump or and you start to set of idolize see certain icons at doing this is how they want them to represent us I was more thinking about the the Amazon product reviews model recommender systems or Netflix the movies you've

watched the Netflix learning enough about you to represent you in your next movie selection so in the kind of movies like what are you what are the kind of movies that you would like the recommender systems these artificial intelligence systems learn bass in your Netflix election that could be deeper understanding of who you are then you even aware of and I think there's that element I'm not sure exactly but there's that element of learning who you are like do you think drugs should be legal as you're not like did you think

I do think immigration should we let everybody in I'll keep everybody out should we all all these topics with a red and blue teams now have a hard to answer of course you keep all the immigrants out of course you need to be more compassionate of course but for most people is really a gray area and exploring that gray area the way you would explore the greater area of Netflix what is the next movie or watching do you want to watch little mermaid or Godfather II what was that process of understanding who you are I just it it feels like that there's room for that not my problem is of course that you had this grave consequences to these decisions that you're going to make in terms of the way it affects the community and you might not have any information that you're basing this on at all you might be basing all these decisions decisions on misinformation propaganda nonsense advertising

easily influenced you might not have looked into it at all you could be ignorant about the subject and it might just appeal to certain dynamics that they've been programmed into your brain because you grew up religious so you grew up in a theishter whether or not people are educated about the consequences of what these decisions were going to leave and then I mean I think there's going to be a time in our in our life where our ability to access information is many steps better than it is now with smartphones I think we're going to like what you on must have some neuralink thing that he's working on right now is being very vague about it increase the bandwidth I'm I'm very interested to see where this leads but I think that we can assume that because something like the internet came along and because it's so accessible to you and I right

will your phone just pick it up say Hey Google the fuck is this and then you get to eat you get the answer almost instantaneously that's going to change what what a person is as that advances and I think we're much more likely looking at some sort of a symbiotic connection between us and artificial intelligence and computer augmented access to information then we are looking at the rise of some artificial being the Texas over and fucks her girlfriend that's Timmy's super exciting the phone is a portal to the collective that we had an elective Consciousness and it gives people a voice I would say if he was like me you really know very little about the politicians you're voting for or even the issues like global warming I'm embarrassed to say

I like I know very little about it I guess I'm actually being honest with myself I've heard different like I know what I'm supposed to believe as a scientist but I see no nothing about on Crete concrete about process of a / metal process and why is it so certain you know it's scientist apparently completely agree so I kind of take on faith often times with the community agrees a mile discipline a question but outside that just kind of take on face in the same thing with gun control and so you just kind of say which team am I on and I'm just going to take that off I just feel like it's such a destructible space to where people can be given just a tiny bit more information to help them well maybe just for something like neuralink comes along it and just enhances our ability to access the stuff in a way that's much more

this more tangible than just being able to Google search it and maybe this is this process is something that we really can anticipate it's going to have to happen to us just like we were talking about cell phone images that you can just send Australia with the click of a button that no one would have ever anticipated that 300 years ago maybe we are beyond our our capacity for understanding the impact of all the yeah yeah maybe it's coming up now what is that world going to look like when you're too old to you'll be sitting you'll be like 95 sitting on the porch with a shotgun with Clint Eastwood and what are those kids look like when they're 18 years old robots x-ray vision I could read minds what is going to happen to be saying robots are everywhere these days back back in my day we used to put robots in their place to go to the same school

and they want to do want to run for president now I want to run for president yeah they're more compassionate smarter but we still hate them because they don't go to the bathroom. We half the country love them Abraham Lincoln character will come along. That's why I'm picturing myself for me quotes in one other thing I got to say about Academia okay

and defensive Academia so you've had a lot of really smart people on including Sam Harris and Jordan Peterson and often the word Academia is used to replace a certain concept so I'm part of Academia and most of Academia is engineering his biology is medicine is hard Sciences the humanities that are slippery you met in that thing is subset of humanities that I know nothing about and there is something I don't want to speak about I don't know I asked you live on Harvard campus sorry I forgot my tea but I live in Harvard campus until yeah it's there I just I don't care I like in Harvard Square

Club in Cambridge there's a few if you could, because I write a Chinese restaurant that has stand up there still I was at work Comedy Club up there yeah cuz you've done I think your specials in Boston yes I did at the Wilbur Theatre have you ever considered just go back to the house and doing like that Chinese restaurant Ding Ho yeah that was before my time when I came around I started in 1988 The Ding Ho it already ended but I you know I got to be friends with guys like Lenny Clarke and Tony V and all these people that told me about the ding how in Kenny Rogers in the comics that were and Barry crimmins who just passed away rest in peace who is really The Godfather that whole scene and the one of the major reasons why that scene was so that it had such

really some rock solid morals and ethics when it came to the creation of material and standards was a lot of it was Barry crimmins cuz he's just that's just who you are as a person you know but that was before my time I came around when I came around like 4 years after that stuff and so there was tons of comedy clubs it was everywhere but I just didn't get a chance to be around that the Ding Ho seen a new state of osun for how many of them before you moved out here how was in New York in by the time not I think I was in New York by 92 9192 South Boston for a for 5 years doing stand up and then get to from Boston to New York today for you to talk but what about Connecticut

to talk shit about Connecticut here I've heard you do it once I just had a buddy of mine looks wrong with you this 49 other states to go to Alaska it's great you go back to Boston do like small gigs small last time Boston is a great Club I used to do Nick, stop and all the other ones they are but I love the Wilbur the world where's a great place to perform I love Boston I'd I would live there was so fucking cold in the winter that's what keeps people like me out keeps them pussies away say to the first I got to give a shout out to my shout-out shout out to a long long time friend Matt from Chicago this been there all along

the fan of the podcast so he's probably listening to him and his wife I did I had a beautiful baby girl so I don't want to just send my love to him and I told myself out ended this way okay let me in and do what you want end of the day love is the answer love is the answer

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