#1198 - Derren Brown

November 9, 2018

Derren Brown is an English mentalist and illusionist. He has a new special called "Sacrifice" streaming now on Netflix.

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ladies and gentlemen streaming right now on Netflix Joey Diaz is new stand-up comedy special it's a half hour specials called

the degenerate with our good friend Big Jay oakerson he got one funny, cat a New York yamaneika she got one of our good friend Christina pazsitzky she got one too and they're out right now I just wanted to let you guys know about that my Netflix special is also out right now it's my new one it's called strange times I think it's my best one this episode of podcast is brought to you by 23andMe 23andMe is a personal genetic service that helps you understand what your DNA can tell you about you and your family Story and there's some that I wanted to do for a long time I thought about it forever and then finally when 23andMe became a sponsor I went ahead and did it. 23andMe is named after the 23 pairs of chromosomes that make up our DNA and with 23andMe it allow you to see how your DNA breaks out across a hundred and fifty plus regions worldwide

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alrighty let's jump on this next gentleman I have been wanting to the sit down and talk to this guy for a long time and it did not disappoint he is an English Mentalist and illusional Illusionist you can call the magician but he's a lot more than that he's got a lot going on I really enjoyed talking to him please give it up for the Great and Powerful mr. Derren Brown

The Joe Rogan Experience

what's up man how are you hello kind of a strange day in this part of Los Angeles is always been according to a firefighter that I talk to you once that the right wind catches a fire and it takes it all the way through Los Angeles down to the coast it's not quite that it didn't go through Hollywood and didn't go they think one day it's going to happen and with her right when they're not going to stop it but it just feels pretty bad this is about as bad as I've ever seen it happen all in one day yeah it was just driving down the road to get here just these huge

just the mountains and I thought it was strange cloud formation but it was just smoke smoke and looks like a giant gray mountain in the distance it's it's insane how bad it's gotten I've had it happened this is the third time I've been evacuated since I've moved here 20 plus years yeah it gets rough but this is the roughest of ever seen Jamie and I were doing the podcast yesterday and when it was over I had like 5 text messages from friends that live in my neighborhood saying how bad it was and then when we got home the wind was just crazy and it's just it's just it's humbling you know I mean it's super unfortunate for all the other people that are losing their homes and then losing their you know losing their property but the reality is this is

it's nature this is just something that you just can't avoid there's nothing you could do about it gets dry like this and I don't know what started it I hope it wasn't a cigarette that's the biggest I see so many morons the throne cigarettes first thing that just happens it's the little things like cigarettes and unfortunately a lot of times it mean that the weather certainly accentuates it because it's dry and windy and this is fire season well because I support your back as well as having your old man they keep you sitting straight accentuate your posture they do so what's up man what you doing

Show on Netflix come out so I'm just kind of generally a here to talk about it I guess and seen a couple of friends in this nice very nice week yeah this is a good way to end it to the giant fire and it's just saying if I get the fuck out of here yeah it'll be different back home yeah it's it's it's it's amazing just at this time of year leaving England and coming to somewhere like I'm sure it's it is amazing just for a the weather set up and visit just so is it just a dream place to you it's a love-hate relationship I certainly problem is the population is just so insane

there's more than 20 million people plus who knows people know how much I really don't have no idea you know it's it's just too chaotic Place With No trains no infrastructure of everyone has an escalator a Tesla or something it's 70956 Lanes on each side in there champ solid where nothing's moving either way and if you can see it from Preposterous it is when you're flying into LAX and you see the 405 Highway in the distance and it's all stopped for as long as he could see miles one way miles the other way just complete parking lot I'm just realized wow what are we doing here

found a spot with great mother and you know that and then the entertainment industry draws people in

I don't know maybe better be in England keep the rain little bit of when the rain cleared and everything should have glisson's and that's a nice your Instagram Instagram recently and I'll just be putting putting that stuff on that which I don't know how interesting it is generally too well but it's a nice place to put that kind of vibe John picture my mother says I sell them so they just sit around so I was really good thank you excellent It's surprisingly good you know I mean you think someone is really good at something like magic he said well that's about

get a CT scan Academy sound like he's going to be that good at something else but you are in many years are really good artist thank you very much have you done your whole life because he's going to be talking to this and now I think most of striped pictures I guess but it's not stop singing

putting bigger than yourself to throw yourself into an to lose yourself in. It's right guys days weeks if you're not just being in my studio is is just as lovely as a great thing your mind for your other work I think it's it's just the shit contrast and I'm on my favorite part of the year is touring and I get to do the shows in the evening and then the days free and I'm like I'm not in London I'm in some of the city so no one could spend that one can like get me in for meeting or anything I do not have two days free and I can write so I had a book on happiness that I wrote which I wrote what I was on and it was just this amazing routine of just find me a coffee shop spending the day realizing that it does get a bit

yeah I bet boring or a bit you know sad or something if it's. Quite coming together and you've done you then got to go out and be this amazing be charismatic will rehearse version of yourself on stage which is full of it that's an amazing routine I think it's my favorite you find yourself on the one I'm kind of out taking pictures of candid moments I guess you're a step out of it but you're also very open and then engaged and that feels like a very kind of porous lovely state to be in haven't been used to keeping my head down out in public so I realize I'm no no never told me that you can't have it so I guess if I was out in public I generally Netflix

Mindful and open alert and

at the same time. Probably a little bit shy guys are having that little step back thing as well cuz you know taking pictures is a great state of contrast to the the shows in the united the rest of it or you always shy or did you become more shy because of becoming really famous

I was always

little lies I thought quiet be quiet and secure a very charming and quite bright and quite like socializing you know that was that was all good but I think I can side I was intimidated by the kind of spooky kids you would have terrified me as a as a child and I think it's just bored and I saw this guy performing at University and idea I just know I'm going to I'm going to do that just performing that's what if you know need the information and unloved and center of attention

yeah the control affect an ulcer the kind of people at the tip of the sort of guys that would respond well to hypnosis and come up on stage and you know I'd respond well to it tended to be exactly the kind of guy that would really into it ice baby. I started the yams definitely driven by insecurity most depressing people at the resident than just showing off that's faster than that you started out doing it hypnosis show us a comedy show no it was sort of I would mainly perform at like

colleges demonstration and then have questions and questions announces off Woodson it's just a really interesting

singing Trouble with mixed up with people just kind of playing along and stuff so it fits but if you take that out of it it's just a really interesting are and I've done this for 20 years, no I don't think of myself as a hypnotist it was just kind of right before I started but the suggestion based techniques of that is something I continued with and broke in two different areas and I still don't fully understand it you know now it's Liz you can have a quiet climbing inside someone's head I know what they experienced about how you should do what I used to do these like station to I tell these people on stage that I was invisible riot night I felt something through the night like this kind of keep an eye

I done I don't think what was your actual experience like but it shows out of and I'll be honest what we won't be experiencing and you get some people that would say well

yeah you were up or she just floating that you would just holding it but I kind of felt like I had to play along and then you get this interesting are in the middle of of like what I kind of like now when I think that is so cool if it was you but it was mostly just completely I can only experience as a terrifying floating bottle of whatever it was so that's a bit like an acting like getting caught up in a roll I guess the number less emotionally connected to extreme people that would not accept that it was made fudge and get to state that must have been on the wall or something there's no there's no way that I can drop you back at the picture in my memory is so how do you get how do you how do you charge for that experience has been signed and all those people that have sang know you were really invisible are they just saying that cuz they want to be like the best subjects and then in that group. Is that is not that must be a real issue right the people that just want to please you and I'm playing the long hot can you tell what if you were hypnotizing people yeah I can tell

can I use it quite to the South Valley in the show I don't like overly you know hypnotize people so that means we can meet one of two things either means I'm not interested people playing along because I'm not just trying to create the effect of someone hypnotize they need to genuinely be responding to this thing in order for the next bit to work in which case I have to filter out anybody playing on occasionally

occasion it doesn't matter like a lot of the time like I'll get people up on stage and shake the hand and they're the addition rapid handshake induction the guided Me Up Just full to the floor and their time is it matches and they have to be that has to be really honest response all the times I can tell that said of how often do it and they just a bit intimidating but the 2000 people look in that might look exactly is at work and Shake induction you know you're interrupting a an automatic process right this is the this is the key to it was made Popular by

Play Popular by artist Richard bandler who's the guy behind and I'll pay you and so on I don't feed kind of crazy this thing but perhaps if I send it before him I don't have any white you use a process and you interrupted in the middle sound like when you're shaking hands with somebody that's like such a familiar process that when you start you're not thinking of going to be my hand up and down within a few times and what you just kind of do it automatically there's something about

interrupting that leaves people

really flummoxed and the Wheeled it cuz I really it really caught off guard like imagine somebody comes up here in the street and says it's not half past 7

your action isn't together yeah I know it's $20,000 and your reaction if you think that you've missed something like you're trying to make sense of it is it strange to put you on the back foot and at that point if you if you got somebody whose family suggestible and people coming up on stage is such an old vitamin for the menu at that actually works just the declare instruction to sleep or whatever you want to give him a chance to be taken very thick play a very often than you say on shake hands and I'll break the pattern of the handshakes and I'll take that

on-site sleep and shut them they had like that and they just sleep but it's not sleep to just drop like a like a dead weight on the floor this most interesting up she was some

I like applying this in Sunny more useful everyday situation was as a sort of like an self-defense technique I was walking

between sounds like must have been like 20 or something I was at a Magic Convention I was walking from one hotel to now that I'm dressed like a three-piece velvet suit I was a skinny guy might as well have to punch me in the throat tattooed across my face and he said if he comes up to me says what it what are you looking at what you looking at and

because I've spoken about this how to deal with this sort of thing but it never found myself in this situation I kind of had it so I sent him I said the outside my house isn't full for high

and I guess is an equivalent of this with the sort of adrenaline dump I think is cooled Inn in Marshall Hospital is it it just like in a thing like that for me which is just out of, I can make sense I'm not like talking gibberish it makes sense but it's just out of context he was so do you even want and I said the one outside my house isn't. I spent some time in Spain the wolves that was very high but if you look at the ones here that that tiny that nothing I'm at the store trying trying but it was just it was like everything just just flooded out of it but shut down and I end up sitting next to him on the light on the roadside Austin him you know so what's the plan was I was going to stick his feet to the floor not his whole time they just kind of collapse

highly suggestible stay by the way the aggression Chevy come out with the song lyric some weird kind of thing that you can just go into it in those situations that I don't even know if it's a bit difficult but that you just your kind of strange be taken control of a situation of us what you going to do if they said what are you looking at on the back foot switches kind of nicely kind of inverse the situation and puts them on the back for which I already booked it was there

it was kind of fun isn't there like a process required to hypnotize someone you could just do it that way and send it to just talk them through some sort of a program that makes him think their foot is stuck to the floor I depends on the moment I had I used to regulate coming to try it out and then I just

this one time I used to leave people would suck if they were responsive to it I just was like I was already 20 minutes half an hour of relaxing somebody maybe suggesting this the hands were getting lost in float single heavy and they couldn't let you know basic stuff but I would leave with the construction it when you come back if I click my fingers you'll get back into the sleep study I know you have a kind of good condition to that dolphin work even like a week later I just thought I'd check before I told you this week so I sat down with whatever that means right and then we did whatever it was maybe you know if you want to stop smoking All These Hands by the end of it I realize until he didn't I hadn't met him before

Cinema 12 how did how did why did you respond to me licking my fingers and cuz I don't have magic fingers there's nothing like confidence with it and the fact that you to say that he was also very suggestible and put those two things together and that's what made it work it was just that that psychological mind that the hand that was more important than the nature of the 20 minutes script that I've been learning and using up to that point so I was kind of a little more confidence in that he had already been under so just kind of it just sort of happened and then he just suggested and it probably wouldn't have worked but I thought about it but it's just started this you know this realization ultimately might my kind of

2K with what I do is the stories that people telling themselves that's that's kind of

that's really do know all there is a even a magician showing you a card trick is just getting you to tell yourself a story edit edit this event in such a way that you go then it disappeared like when he complimented the day and they have soccer called in that all they took the car back because you're being sold a story with particular set of edit points

we couldn't we just we have to kind of juice at the store is to make to make sense I think stripping Asado look out of votive L and tacky association's a hypnotist and magician and saw nothing to something this something interesting at the holidays I think that that storytelling capacity is endlessly fascinating to me to seems to be like some cheat code to the human mind like there's an admin panel and all sudden you're you're doing things like telling people they don't really don't want to be smoking or putting them into the hypnotic mindset I just snapping your fingers and saying sleep like you said will finish it when performing at doing it but there wasn't going for kind of theatrical effect if you don't look at it like a clinical environment with hypnosis of being investigated

it's much more boring in a why isn't don't have any theater attached to it has much more ondina kind of intrusive be understandable pretty bad pretty bad subject I had one experience where I only want to but I was in like a workshop thing that I was there is a pain and then I was shot with the exercise ball and you start to describe the scene so you sent upset with this woman you close your eyes you start to describe the scene and you got back and forth adding details right so she says all the time and I'm going to beach on so I just imagine that like I'm not going to be and I can I can feel the warmth of the sun on my face I'm just kind of like imagining it in joining in with the story I thought I just remember

some of the guys come up time for lunch I had been completely just like a dream it was completely Tipton do that that's the only expense I thought of it other than that I don't respond to I'm just know I think it's just it's just suggestibility it's something about time we get it when you get it would have talked to get this app to see the only respond to that because this was already figures giving us that old or the way we absorb opinions of people that we had my or an Xbox that we had mine how we just more easily take those I'm bored I'm questioning it is still the same thing it's just a suggestion the truck

most the time it's done true that the world of the Performing hypnotist which isn't it isn't giving really very clear view of what's up what's going on because it's so theatrical and so you'll your relishing in things like I take my fingers in the sky went to sleep but that's not really what it is when you take the fingers are supposed to go to sleep if that's a real range of possible experiences that you might look like a power that doesn't mean it is they might just be just complying I was going to do some of the stuff on the stage without using the hypnosis to show that this time I think of anything that happens on the Atocha to come be done without thought I was having this discussion with the my friend Andy directions to Cal Ranch gas stations within and

I wish I got that thing of you know when you want to hit me just get somewhere to eat an onion and says you know this is a classic hip-hop hits. Getting a Roar on you and it says it's a delicious juicy Apple now he's munching into an onion and like having no problem using it feels like if you just going to pull it off without hypnosis with that just happened anyway and Andy said I'll bet I bet you can just anybody went to my fridge took out an onion took a big bite of it and it was fine but then somebody going when I dare you to take a bite of that on you when you pray everything that you know the disgusting all the reasons not to do it but the thought that he was just bet you can do it and trying to prove a point menu did it and it was fine so that I was a different mental state and it worked. Results till you do that on stage and pretended to hypnotize somebody fast it would look like you've done something amazing so to me it's just

just that story that someone's telling themselves but didn't it did it taste like an onion to Amber it's just it what does it taste like an apple to them well I don't know what it what are they saying I know I think some of them doing this thing that looks like it couldn't happen without some magical process that's the key I None of these things ready to Mom that many people being in surgery through hypnosis I've been wide awake I'm being cops I've been so you think well that must be evidence that hypnosis is some special thing is that couldn't happen otherwise but of course they can you know the layer of skin that feels pain is actually so quiet stay in so once you get through that when you moving organs around that's not that's not a painful process anyway

just to numb the very top layer of skin so we can what looks amazing very often isn't it so it's an endless laid rich and Design

Aries man I kind of like I said I don't you think of myself as a hypnotist put that the that process that kind of ability for people to get into the space where they can have that kind of experience is is something that they have a lot of ways Financial recent stage has I did send it on facing in the second half so using exactly the same idea I don't know what do you know that I believe in that kind of puts me at least it stopped because the results are already interesting and I am I just started doing this this something that not really knowing if it was going to work I thought I get some adrenaline going and I look to see the techniques of the charlatans faith healers reusing and

so I just so you know I'll do that and I don't want you to run and kills pains I get some adrenaline going there's bound to be people that sit in a lot of pain in my back and now it's gone but the actual results of the audience right not everybody but the people that were coming up and saying

this problem and now it's going on there that was a woman that had a shipping paralyzed on one side of a body since I can you should I can afford his nausea and floods of Tears going I can move my arm on this was this is a skeptic Lori it's like me that know that that's kind of playing along with something I don't know unless I can't smoke percentage not not not everybody but having having these kind of experience it it is so that's what's the psychological component of suffering which witch is which was really on Anthony doing that should not talk tonight. Tonight Faith healing is got to be a form of hypnosis right exactly it's the same well it's playing that they both were they both join buys is the idea of suggestibility and it doesn't sometimes that is healing take an x-ray before going off with nothing is changing but it is much as a lot can depend on this psychological component they can really make a difference again

do people come up 10 people come up and say is not me know involving them in the show but

getting even smaller there are people that like a year later we're getting in touch and so just so you know that thing did actually play like it hasn't come back cuz I thought it was only lost for 10 minutes while they're on the stage and then which is why you don't tell people the truth about 8% now she's always going to be kind of pretty extraordinary it was a real thing so I'm not still 200 people in one of them actually is too short from that immensely Bazaar

and like I said I had to send that shoulder for a long time and I already used to but I put a jacket on kind of putting this in my left on putting it in like that in my left arm go dead and then using my right arm to pull that thing up right now I don't know how much I really need to do that anymore whether I'm just doing it out of habit but if somebody got me up on stage and said you left shoulder is healed it's happened now I think in the surprise of it and this year kind of just snacking out of that habit of being like this is my dad um I probably would be very surprised that I cannot remove it as much as I can it's just it's like when you break it down it's like not that amazing but when you bring you would you see the the the mall kind of extremely exciting into that it's it is mind-blowing of yourself and think while I've got the special gift I could pack out stadia doing like a

how do you think about my what did I do like a secular healing shall I can say what this is it's just you and everybody in it and I didn't do that but you know you can sell it to go mad all the processes of the mind I mean that the idea of the placebo effect is fascinating the idea that your mind has some ability that you can't tap into consciously but you can and some sort of a subconscious sent someone gives you something and if you're convinced that it's doing something positive it actually will have some benefit to you real tangible measurable benefit and it doesn't seem to make sense there's no mechanism that we can't raise there's no luck for me I found the keys the person gets absorbed any responsibility for the change themselves today I got a couple things with you shall have them the sacrifice a guy

put a microchip implanted in in which is doing all the work another shower down his procedure of injections they were getting so they filled the drug is doing the work but the key is they don't have to work until this thing is taking care of that for me and Powerful to suddenly it's it's

I think about it I don't have to do I don't think the person thing I don't have to make this happen myself there's no Otis on me I don't have to do any anything this is Magic full mineral somehow doing it is usually powerful

so that yeah that's that's where that's at I think that's a big a big part of it which is why I love when we want me to see if I program we cry to this whole like I'm fake building we had a building we just need to finish out with the actors in the equipment and stuff to just create its environment that was going to be convincing before the injections we've been given these wrong people that had various like his problems all things that would be just going to just investigate and see how well does she looked and

yeah it did but... So helpful thing have a feeling this just something and you making it making it happen you almost like a subconscious optimism or something like that yeah I've wondered if that sort of mindset that allows you to experience a beneficial result of a placebo is that in some way transfers over to Everyday Life events if having this may be unfounded sense of optimism or this bizarrely positive outlook or this almost undo confidence actually can have some sort of a beneficial tangible result in the real world in terms of actual events that take place whether it's because of the way you interact with other human beings that they are being influenced by your positive attitude attitude and energy and the confidence and enthusiasm and then therefore things go smoother

or whether it's really some sort of a fact of the way you interchange with reality itself and that your attitude actually has an effect on events mostly ever rated I'm a big advocate of strategic pessimism I think the the problem with that kind of

the problem is on wavering self-belief yesterday it just doesn't

life work right I think if you imagine the kind of a garage so you got your your was at the Y axis going up your items and things you want to cheat or x-axis is just what needs to go full shoot stuff that life throws back at you that you have no control over but no controller tool so we are told a lot nowadays that you just set your goals believe in yourself visualize this the line that we living in line with all goals and all you know is always like like pushing back so I need is an x equals y line that that's a kind of more realistic I think a price of what a life is so I think making peace with that which allows for all the optimism you want but also

makes peace with the fact that at some point that might let you down you know you can spend your life climbing a ladder and then realize you had against the wrong. They may just be the wrong calls and though you may achieve them and then like you know now when I put it in a friend to spend a long time building a company and selling it even driven to do this was life like needed to service a cheap to feel like you know that he was the Chiefs that dream and then you know what to do in this life that that it was still there now I had nowhere to go and actually ended up in therapy because it was such a strangely counterintuitive thing

what about changing the world for the better but I think we have to make mental space for the fact that I

1120 Freud created psychoanalysis he wasn't trying to make people happy he called it you got it restoring showing natural on happiness like I'm happy sometimes and I get rid of I'm not sure what happened as soon as he saw it like I said if you don't you going to happiness and restore a kind of an easy relationship

to life and force you to tell me that's that's the case I'm always a bit was a bit skeptical of the kind of just unwavering positivity unwavering positivity is usually delusional but a certain amount of positivity trying to the fighting thing of you going why you don't take your pills and if this condition returns which it's going to eat your own fault because you didn't have enough fight where I'm at that's a quite a toxic cycle itself. I'm exactly the same cycle that you get when you read like The Secret for example if these great things done, it's because yourself believe waive it for a second you only have yourself to be explicit about that it's great if you can put it in a certain contacts if not it's sadly can be a recipe I think friends

just a feeling of failure that you don't know the sandwich come from but I was trying to get at was I wonder if it's a component in a much larger picture not that it's the one thing like the key like the real problem with the secret is this the idea that you're taking all these people that are already successful they would shave the certain result and then you're asking them how did you achieve that result I thought positive and I just put my mind to it I dreamt on it it all have this in common bunch of losers car accidents are the what the world turn bad on them that that actually can happen to him so it's just you're using you have a biased Focus Group

fixating on it and ignoring all the haters and ignoring all the people that would bring you down is a perfect recipe for failure you just focus on the one that the thing about human beings I think is that we really do need other people's input in interaction the idea that you're going to work in a vacuum and create this Great Masterpiece without any interaction with other human beings this doesn't really it doesn't work like that and ambivalent meaning or even the shelf right cuz I think these things of verbs that maybe we shall serve as a verb you know maybe it's something that happens dynamically in the relationships that right maybe I'll settle for something that extends out into the world and you know what kind of fluid in that way and happiness maybe is maybe that's an activity meaning is maybe and activity but we we would juice these things to nouns like that really neat easy

isolated things and they're really not so I can in the the TV shows that I do I'm putting people through like a transformative process and they they're reacting to extreme situations and I always have people saying I wouldn't do that LOL but think it will fight tonight I would never do that but it's just a set of individual kind of Shepherd if I was watching that I'm thinking of it. I've been doing is thinking and if I were in that situation with the same pressures amazing that that does changes that would not leave Jennifer to 300 years we've had this idea that we are these

kind of

Lucas back to like not being influenced by Kings and Priests like it was this is John Locke is not the beginnings of that that I did and I know we we we should not we should have this kind of personal Thor how does drifted into I think it's drifted into a really unrealistic and unfair sense of how I feel like to be all we know it clearly social creatures out of this a show on Netflix called the push which I did which was to see whether if you crave this environment social compliance Ossipee, see what this one guy and it doesn't know that this is being filmed it is part of the TV show everybody else is an Act and the plot was to say could you get into Motu somebody to push someone off the roof to the death as far as she's concerned I wish it just stopped but he kind of gets roped into helping out at this event and it's a big high stakes of and everyone's in in our tuxedos but he didn't get the memo for the dress codes we already comes in feeding a bit

gets roped into helping out and that the first thing is off to do is to label them

meat filled sausage rolls snacks as vegetarian right beside the vegetarian ones have been delivered so just like a little and it feels and it gets to this point when he's on a roof having been through this really answered I've been faced with this massive pressure to to kill this guy. I don't want to spoil the ending as it's a stonecutter but this is like it's that's what it's all about you know how you are

it's like the story you tell yourself about who you are it just isn't isn't isn't real kind of got the new show me to sacrifice cuz I'm talk about anything you want but do you feel a certain sense of

moral confusion when you're trying to talk someone into potentially any realize that if this wasn't a show if a similar or maybe even more powerful pressure swear in play and this guy was suggestible and he found himself in very unusual circumstances where it seemed like a good idea to kill this person like you're introducing this thought and this this scenario into a person's mind that perhaps could go Cradle to the Grave and never have that it's it's kind of the opposite what it actually

this is how much about that when you give away the ending believe what it does is actually mentally rehearse somebody what what this guy took away from it is the knowledge that he was ever in a situation again where there was anything like that nature of compliance that he now has the tools to just like stand up because you need that kind of emotional rehearsal and bring it to your house and get with him unless you being trained and stuff and you know it like that you you you need like it but emotional experience of it to know what that thing happens just have the results. Even if I realize it doesn't sound like a reason for doing it everybody that comes away is always right you know that's that's that is that was a great thing to do best thing I've ever done you know there's not even though the talk but he sounds like the

guy who had a positive outlook on it sounds like a person it can learn from their mistakes but there's some people that when confronted with some new situation like wow I really was going to push that guy off the roof like this is me like I didn't think that was me now I know now I know that I'm capable of doing that if I get manipulated to the point like wow and then they have a lot of

like real confusion and an N perhaps I lack of faith in themselves their ability do I get these radical questions or what I'm asking my knowledgement did my concern with he's done a lot of these shows when people to put through these dark Jen is to reach a valuable coins more valuable than perhaps the end of the church which is quite dog but I might my only real concern is their experience of the guy that is just on his new show if it's on but I said to me before I came out and said it took me out the shower I suppose you would want me to say about your experience he said last night to have my kid that is the best thing I've ever done but I know other people watching the show will say how can you justify that manipulating somebody and why did you not just want to kill you at the end of it but the reality is it's just this one guys experience that I care about and that something I can manage and crate and make sure that he's left in the right way I don't

I just like will remain friends with the rest of my life so it's not like the TV show thank you goodbye this is see in the production team fully in love with these people should give put in the fridge like 10 month projects have to go to this whole other thing going on I have no idea how long was push for electrician

look at 1 evening about your filming wow because it was just one like real time of end apocalypse isn't on Netflix on by if you go down the rabbit hole to be somewhere on YouTube but we ended the world for somebody so we we took control of his news feed is TV we were filmed like special editions is TV shows are new shows everything that happened to the radio playing with DJs that he knows a talkin about his thing that is supposed to have them and then we stayed at least this pyrotechnic end-of-the-world thing in this kind of sort of controlled enough environment we could get him into why we could states that convincingly how did he wakes up

in the second half of season 2 episode thing in this post-apocalyptic seemingly like weeks later in the hospital like everyone's gone the prices abandoned some infections spread so there is like the zombie plot swizzy a lazy selfish took advantage of his parents he was sitting with never had a proper job he was just kind of like needed to Value what he had said the Starbucks was so you know just rehearse taking everything away so when you return to the stuff you have you value that Robin just always desire me more so that was that idea kind of written law to take everything away and the world but again. Yeah absolutely I so this is a permanent shift, 3rd Shift he ended up being a teacher in a special needs school that is kind of what his wife through and is now let you know

that's crazy exception of the world me realize that I'm really is finite and it could have been taken away from them and they feel like they have a new lease on life I mean you really can be come out totally different person after something like in the new show just like brand new thing I've done fit for Netflix with a couple of other shows did what is it called to sacrifice sacrifice is Scottsville who is an american guy is father's father's British club. Which language is an american guy living in Florida Cocoa Beach Florida

right-wing guy strong views against immigration using these kind of psychological techniques try and get him to the point where he will willingly lay down his life and take a bullet for an illegal Mexican immigrant

only somebody believes this you have the whole thing

so you went through this journey which is not a political story it resonates but we don't tell me the story about compassion and Humanity in this whole 2030 GMAT mom and daddy that he found himself in the guys like a huge difference. And you know it said exactly how long the process take about 10 months the idea that this is the part of the show and find that make that happen to him but you feel so go to create this whole thing has its like this come true and Shove It fiction for somebody that has to be completely convincing that's a whole other level is of kind of work plus you know you got to make sure these guys right bust enough to go through something like that since all the veteran procedure that has to happen without him realizing what it's all about that's a great way to put it

psychologically write a crazy amount of preparation production work electrical interference with the Patriots just have to make his TV pop off in his room like just got out and to do that it would two guys out in his garden shed waiting for her to be there all day cuz I couldn't come in at the Garden cuz he might see in the TV guy but then they couldn't leave because you might seem so they had to spend the night in this Garden sheds nothing huge amount of people that travel through the paranoid like if you if you did that to naturally paranoid person or person with a touch of schizophrenia oh my God I have to be

I'm at any point during the process of course we can light stop it I guess I can but that would suck when that that would suck. It's amazing how much prep work is involved in something like that I just set up the radio of where they walk in place of different broadcast was the vitamins that kind of an end-of-the-world moment if you have the fake fake radio broadcast from the from the BBC and so convincing was July I'll make vodka called war of Worlds type stuff this thing in the in sacrifice that was an amazing pivotal moment and it when he

which of the staring test was developed by New York psychology professor and the other was you you just might have come across that you just stay at someone's eyes for 4 minutes and

highest it's the most amazing thing is almost first things you don't listen walk with us and it's kind of in a giggling in and then that tends to stop and then you just

facing a human being and let you if you still have some a broken through all the kind of crap and then you see like a person that's like living and struggling like you are and some private life that like that's a big thing for me like you know we we we go through life seeing people generally generally the best represent themselves to you you'll Tennessee that couple of the best idea of how to get the other people on how impressive all the people on how great other couples are compared how you are with your partner and we missed it like did we defrost we have this big clumsy embarrassing lumbering giant of a of a private life is just following is round and it's potentially now you have a Instagram and all that people branding themselves it's so unfair in terms of the difference between how you perceive yourself and how you to see if anybody else

the store is that would kind of living outside that you that you know it takes like 4 minutes of this bizarre staring thing to cut of reaching my manager just suddenly I'm hitting the point of just seeing another human being and everything that comes with that there's a big moment for this Garfield on trips a really we tried a couple things then that you see in the show doesn't work out quite well and then and then this really emotional it just has this big change for the show me to how well it works in the show who wants it whatever just to actually feel like

at some point in my life I've done a positive thing I just for one person with TD which is not you know generally kind of a pretty moronic kind of medium such a bitter just do something

meaningful is Xena is this good listening to it sounds amazing doesn't just sound good it sounds like quite a work of art that you don't manage to figure out a way to coordinate all these moving parts and trick someone into accepting a bunch of different versions of reality you're presenting these results it's a production crew that knows no limit I put a ride the thing you notice the little things that involved in both those kind of thoughts on it was the first show I did like that was

take me to Yahoo

if I switch to in sacrifice. Just bring out someone's here. It's about that's kind of the story you're seeing somebody go through a big change but bring out the hero and the end of this journey has been through find yourself an airplane is terrified of flying but we have quite the situation we have to be on the Fly and you didn't notice anything to do with us Everyone's an actor in the place we go ahead and cameras drop the plane in this is meta there is a medical emergency I'm with somebody on the plane someone needs to know what it's called here at 30000 feet at this moment he goes to the cockpit now he is highly suggestible right I've used him because it's adjustable so I know that I can put him to sleep and you better come with by taking my fingers on his condition to that so I step out before you

the carpet condition to this throughout the process take me to wheelchair wheel and the time he wakes up in a about to walk into one of those convincing simulator see that I use for the pilot training I just kind of a night flight to that was found out I was the most convincing thing without it when it's dark so you know how it goes and believing he's in the cockpit of a real poinsettia feet is 30000 feet up in the air he's got the guy on Ground Control down getting into the on the plane I just it's just a guy in his mind and I was just saving the lives of 300 people I know he steps out to him the other game you just the Michael Douglas filming notice that said it is always been a point of reference to make sure he comes out it's like a big party of everyone that's been on his journey all these people these actors that being mean I'm taking him

directions to fuck you over the years with these kind of these parts these kind of immersive Truman Show style every year as well which is extremely jealous by just to like maybe once a year so I take it on it just takes it just an act normal p.m. and then to be convincing in to follow the plot not deviate at all and yet I actually used to sacrifice was so good that it's just like he needs to stay in your blood so so good I never liked big we had at the end it like pics of aggressive racist by characters that we use

everything is like they all cuz I whip my kids as well so they are big like Harry intimidating people to the same time they want to know about the motivation and what do they do to write in this again I tried. What a fantastic idea for a showing so uniquely original I mean it's just seems like there's so much work involved in something like this you must have sets over that I the processes I come up with an idea sore like let's which is normally when we sit I sit with a couple of guys that are at the shows with we normally drive yourself mad thinking about is and then one of us normally Migos I'll come we just that's just in the world in his own basil let's fix it down the post I wanted to

come to the opposite it's going to be saving a life and much more Redemptive story than the idea was the first thing and I try and come by not really strong dramatic hook with a really good reason for doing otherwise you just making like a controversial shocking thing for the same thing that's a beautiful perspective to this crazy prank you're playing on them

show something that a lot of hearts and a lot of them

Fort Myers Brewing tenant to be beneficial to these people is what transforms that you have empathy for these folks you truly care that that alone makes everything else better it makes the whole like hit the whole thing is just like I'm smarter than these dummies and I'm just going to trick them and we've had that show before many many times and make people feel terrible and it's cringe-inducing when you watch it you can't look away but that you are doing this and the end result is actually a benefit their perspective and actually might change their life for the better that's extraordinary that's amazing thank you that's that's that's the hope the way that I do it the way that I change them is through conditioning so I know this is a technique of used a lot over the years of you kind of take the emotional state you want the person to have at the end

break it down into components and then attach each one of those two it to a trigger so this guy fill in sacrifices using like an app which you think she's talking to this other microchip he hasn't him cuz he thinks his way things were yeah we got in the back of the shirt I got me so he thinks he's using this app which is kind of them helping motivated but it what is doing it too tight it's giving in this sound like this little Jingle the gets attached to all those feelings of motivation so that means that when he finds himself in this kind of final scene where he has this choice to step in and save a life that we can have the same jingle on the radio that plays and you know you hear a song

breaking up with someone and it's horrible pair to be life and then five years later you hear the same song again please don't dream candidate that there's some way they can snap and then you go back to the state line with them self hypnotize robot empathy all the shows about the desire to act and then he's he finds himself in this situation which is Extreme had no idea anything to do with project and said he's going back home have time to forget about it I didn't end up stranded in this situation right all happens I'm going to try these things off so I'm giving in this kind of psychological knowledge and then it's

what will happen when you really want something take it I think I landed the plane is coming over to hang out if the kind of

politically but it's not a political show that there's like every political narratives we get constrained by and we forget between the sides that you know where Humanity Emoji's movie find truth so this is also I got the story about a guy coming out of his particular socio-political narrative and just finding something else but Lee is just a human human quality kindness compassion I need to not political qualities I think that a lot of people going to want that to happen to them like I need some sort of a transformative prank played on me to get stuck on momentum we could get stuck in the following the same patterns over and over again it's very difficult to change your life this is this is so great at involving our ability

it just it touches down in this world I'm a very quickly given messages about what are relations for that ship to that world is this is what people like this is what they want from you you are not powerful the world is powerfully knowing that that is it's going to be skewed you said that you had I love this at the greatest but a child have to bury The Omelette life of its parents such a great thing to your starting point is skewed story and then you just go through life looking for things that just fit and recreate that was the first patent cuz I feel so comfortable you know yo what you learn about love from your parents you start to bring to your I don't relationships and project all that stuff them on your part I think about you know that

if you had a nice loving upbringing you are getting ridiculous this cute version about love me and that we know is out of how difficult it is raising kids we never saw that you never saw her parents coming up screaming at each other the next 3 months we go to bed we just have to sit in possibly hopefully know if we had a happy one when you get this impossible template of what love is it should be I don't we just dump that on the porch I don't promise nobody can live up to your ability to adapt to internalize stories about who we are and then like mistake that for me I don't see his chest

what makes a living just

difficult and complex and also the narratives that come through fiction narratives from films and books and songs the versions of romance and tarantula thinking of my day with this person that's normal normal thing he sings I'm probably going to get living living with the understanding that you know life is. What about three times a week you should stud to reconsider

yeah I think the The Narrows that we get from fiction or when did they're very confusing to people you know I'm particular people that are very romantic that's what they looking for the holding out and now they're holding out for when the music plays in the close-up is there and and then stories they stop when the people fall in love and get together that's what that's what it start that's when the tough stuff starts that we could do with some good strong fictional Frameworks that's what the top stop it's like it's like death is the same thing as cultural narratives around death that gave it some meetings so now when it happens it's just it's a scary thing that we don't know what to do with the only now if we have that we haven't sold my guess is that of the the brave Battle of someone's fighting which is so unhelpful for the person that's in that situation makes me feel better

I just adds like eventual failure letting everyone else down to this person's the feeling that at that time is you know that this is this is when we can bring out if we have the opportunity to bring a story to some kind of ending in if you want to watch a film or read a book that final scene make sense of everything that's happened before this doesn't happen in life it just kind of end so we we should be like

author of US stories more than at any point before definitely have the opportunity to talk to some people making all these decisions I mean kind of get sideline so yeah these fictional all mythical stories these things that just give us a sense of where are experienced fits into the widest sense of meaning we know we kind of lost touch about the last couple of hundred years and there's a lot of good stuff is coming that because we've been priced you know science and knowledge at the expense of superstition of course pot I let you know I kind of lost touch of something so we lost a little bit of touch with nature and the the natural laws of things living and dying and I think we as human beings today are probably more alienated from particulate the death of farm animals and things on those lines like where where food comes from and actually seeing death

if your dog is sick you bring him to the vet the vet put them down in all these things that people probably experience first-hand for hundreds and hundreds of years particular like raising animals and that is that is just completely removed from the equation for most folks like all view of

like what what the color of indigenous peoples what the the tapping into does not like it isn't the Supernatural That's not sort of thing that's not really the mode what you have and you still have it in these people's lives like a Revelation song that wear these these these ways of living is still going on is what's what's clear is it's not the supernatural it isn't the spirit it's it's all about a really easy

relationship with a natural wellness exam for this is a great book called The spell of the sensuous by David Abrams you how she was in the magician originally went out and Livernois his people he talks about this and he said that he was staying in this compound is Shaman's compound and the the Shaman's wife would bring him some fruit every morning but you will have these little like banana leaves with ricin and she wouldn't she's going off and doing something else with that was in the office where they were going I should all those of the spirits of the house right so and it should come back without Lindsay was just wondering what that meant what he was doing so one day just got to fall out and watch Dentures placing his little pockets of these little things of rice out around the perimeter of this compound he was watching it

and the magician Sonny saw the rice. To move and then if I would have liked was just along the ground and dance so what you got to do and she's putting out rice for the end so they have the filter and Spirits it just ends and then of course the ants kind of all the spirits Ryan so this is a house where food is prepared when they have a lot of thought of big events on an ant infestation would be just as ostrich phone so the spirit that the offering to the spirits at the house is it kind of a dialogue Beyond just going to we're going to put this rice out can you just if you just have the rise and we do this every day when you leave us alone and and then

that's it I could say it's kind of that say it's quite simple diet organization of Islamic kind of been boarded relationship with with nature that have cause we was so far from here so interesting that we do tend to pack a lot of ideas into the unit of the supernatural even like the unconscious and depth psychology in so much I'm a big fan of it we can take all this the unknown stuff and shove it into these kind of Bottomless Pits actually interesting me if you trace it back it seems like it just wasn't what I thought it was just very kind of what they're doing is concentrating on psychedelic drugs there an Ayahuasca church and they're giving people dimethyltryptamine like this is the day arguing with the supernatural that's a very bizarre and intense transformative experience they're putting people through different like that term shaman

a kind of was very rare rare rare to be discussed up until about maybe 20 plus years ago yeah and it seems like there's been some sort of a psychedelic Revolution over the last couple of decades and it's almost become a little bit too popular here where a bunch of people are profiting from it and there are opportunist and their their labeling themselves as Shaman I think that's a term that they use in Peru the cam plastic Shaman and their they're setting up shop and putting together this Ayahuasca brew and having all these Americans come in flying and Europeans are limited for sale today you know are quotes spiritual experience and these are not necessarily she wore a shaman in the greatest sense of the word it's a different it is what we think of when you think of Shaman today we think some of the induction psychedelic ritual exactly which I know very little off and I haven't had an experience I'm excited about something nothing so sorry I've been nothing

like smoke a cigarette everything on but it's it's it's a real magicians thing it's kind of like that's like that too I think so I can watch it control thing yeah. Where you going to do it you going to be doing it then and then

and then that kind of time passes and you just ends up being something that gets me so I can ask him about that he said I think we figured out everything we can from those things already but you have it you haven't usually what we've learned everything we can learn from the Psychedelic trips was with his perception was don't know if he's a mended that since then this is over a decade ago we had this conversation but that thought process is fascinating to me as a transformative experience that you put through people through with the show set and setting them up and they think the world is different in changed and then they change because of that

is is the experience of transcendence that important religions originally gave people that there was a time in history where

where religion was being born it was giving people phenomenological imported experience of the transcended whatever that was kind of have to use recreated recreate those feelings through practices and another practices. To becoming a rituals and and dog burned by this point you creating a recording of the leaf that are imported experience in some kind of faded in the background and then if you know I could see that what you left without it later if it's quite easy to knock down I'm kind of poke fun at some level I think it's not doing a very good job of pointing back to the original experience importance of transcendence now you candy spiritualize I just about anything about your spiritual but like

finding something bigger than yourself in life and throwing yourself into that thing is how we find meaning write a meeting Trump's happiness or anything else that might be for your kids so I guess this is why people generally we have kids at a certain point you on all ready to go get some step down

so that you know that that's what we do instead I guess it's interest in these assignments we just put in a little bit money for him and so on that you don't Supply they do not supply those feelings Transcendence we think they will let me thank you. Rich and glamorous life will lift us off an ounce of a boring everyday lives but of course they not they don't work that's something that's something that that relationship to the mysterious the even even met as an atheist and the rest of my kind of spiritual it just is a kind of a respectful and understanding that

serving something bigger than yourself what if it whatever that is and whoever is important part of Being Human coming back to you this recognition of your work is being something that's bigger than you suck you pour yourself into this and through that experience you somehow transcend that something comes out of it you you you you grow with the creation of this thing in some way and while it's happening you're about as a live as you can be right through it I hope it gives them

profound and transformative experience for me I I I get kind of a bit low if I'm actually in Goshen something creative so... Is important to me but I don't have the painting or whatever these rules you were referring to the painting in the exact same projects something to occupy your mind and your spirit and your creative services

it's a vital vital part of your life making sense of something other people Saturday for themselves off buildings it's not that one happy it's that they normally there's no meaning is gone that that's that's the real that's the real killer was like a painting let me find meeting through

turn yourself into something bigger and recognizing that and you know that might be the reason why this would have welcomed you sort of feeling like it's coming back into the back because of something that something kind of real it brackets fictional too kind of needs to be recognizing somehow on it within within life do you know Tyson Fury is he's a British heavyweight boxer who's the lineal heavyweight champion and he went through severe depression he won the title from bladimir Klitschko who had held it for many many years and beat him and then felt like he had accomplished his goals and just went into a real bad Funk gained a ton of Weights are drinking every night carrying on and got suicidal and was thinking about driving his Ferrari into a bridge and then.

decided that he was going to make another run at the heavyweight championship and so through all this depression and suicidal thoughts and all these different things but turned him around was goal setting that idea that he had something to work towards and something to live for and then getting in shape and then forcing himself to be on this path try to achieve that goal and then what happened on December 1st it hasn't happened yet the rematch hasn't happened yet but he's lost more than a hundred and sixty pounds he's he's slim and he looks fantastic and healthy and he was really fat and really large and very very depressed and now he's really happy and no medication and that is the crazy thing about it is we're always searching for some pill that's going to fix fix whatever weird funky past the mind is on look for him what he found was that goal setting like that having something that you're striving towards are working towards and it's dangerous

what happens afterwards it's exactly the danger cuz that's what he said eyes I asked him I said well what if you win what if you win the time and what if you fight Deontay Wilder and December 1st and you beat him and he become the Champions maybe I Bloom back up to 400 pounds going to get depressed but don't say that I'm worried that he's being honest because he has been down that road before but it's fascinating that he achieved real happiness from attempting to work towards these goals and building towards these goals and having this Vision in his mind thing happened with Christianity the kind of exploded a thousand years ago which took another the hugely popular philosophical school and told about

List of soldiers are the different Express in a much more Western rational way but they kind of reflect some of those ideas and they were going on in Buddhism at the time so the idea of Happiness about your relationship to the current moment on your emotional state in the in the moment I don't know if I'm stepping back from a whole life and you know it said you can recharge anyone is Happy until they're on their deathbed and then what is what is the story that fits a much is for the first time there was this

this new message that none of you suffer now and your reward will happen in the future

you said it's how it's like it's an amazing idea particular if your suffering and that was it ever a time when there is Hellenic walls and then I was at I'm in Christ suffering so powerful message but like that idea of you can take that to the spiritual ladder that I did or said of climbing towards yourself this shimmering golden Haze of the other reward Heaven whatever it is off in the distance that's not the corporate ladder right that idea that that mode has stayed with us we now like in England not familiar enough for the school structure here but it ain't even funny you're 16 you're choosing your A Levels right which is what you finish school with two then decide what you're going to like major it at University in order to then what you'll be going to get at the end of that should what promotion you could get them what you're going to work your way up to unblock what is that moment what is that point that it's that that ended it was so we are so fixated

and what's coming I don't know this is a two-way it said if I go this is familiar in X if you know the importance of mindfulness and Sean would like a fear of death but it happens and all those things but it seems to be that it's fronting because I'll projects will end in a weather issue kids or grandkids that you come to an end and the

the antidote to that seems to be just just reappraising that comes in fixation on the internet right now but I can't help but think of you more about this idea of working towards something when you're in school that you're you're you're you're almost trying to reach an end That Never Comes mean you're you're you're building for something and also the pressure that they put on children to start that off at age 14 15 16 and to pick what you going to be doing for the rest of your life in this idea that one day you're going to air quotes make it and then you going to make it. Yeah I just found them on instead of bills at the company and then sold it was depressed and have to go into the other thing that's been driving that still there

fulfilled at least it's taken care of that so you need something that's going to be really rewarding but that stimulating the human mind needs to engage in Puzzles and then projects and creative Endeavors and all sorts of different requirements at the mind has I believe that mirror requirements at the body has we think of the body having requirements like you need some daily exercise you need good food I think you need some mental exercise and I think you need knowledge you need information you need wisdom you need that to you need inspiration inspiration like we were talking about all the different things you can do to someone as a HIPAA test or would that you can do to someone when you are putting together these shows and changing your perspective on things through these transformative events that's in the lot of ways it's a type of fuel for the mind and inspiration is a tie

a fuel for the money great book is fuel for the mind you know I'm even sometimes people mean this fast food culture that we live in we like it in a little tiny meme a little inspirational meme on someone's Instagram page so I like that gives you a little bit of a nutrition for your mind

it's Square in that with how

good life is it's actually really I'm busy with some complex that that to me is lie that's the big thing to become I think more conscious of which is the best we can ready I am forced to become more conscious of the other things that beset us cuz the shop around the corner so there's this stuff that owns is unwilling to acknowledge that's the stuff that comes back and bites in the background constantly talks about the golden so I use virgin coconut like this that the the Greek model of the Gods cuz I didn't necessarily like worship the golden believe that they were like real differences in the way that we might talk about God now but they what they were doing was honoring these different sort of

like clusters of energy like like you got it like animals like so that's do you own a Heroes because it's important to honor the side of the erotic and if you don't if you don't want to it's going to come back and get you so there's a homophobic televangelist that gets you have cold in bed but I'm gone it's a message cattle it will come back and bite you if you just want to bury something in you it will come back and bite you and I like that but it it it it it just means that your life is ambivalent and complex and I think the best we can do is try and

be conscious of that I know because introducing things to sew easy packages better the same time how do you navigate forward without without reducing things with easy store that's the only way you can make sense to move forward it is to have an easy story so it's it's that's like a whole life X simmer things down to a nice tasty little easily digestible package but the reality is when you open that package there is every package is intensely complex like every single situation has all these different interacting factors that led to that situation taken place if you take them all into consideration and really dwell on it like you just get paralysis by analysis

turn lights out Toney the simple message that we just kind of kind of wire to grab hold of that and absorb it a fuse that's sort of a century I guess what what suggestibility is your Century confusing looking for not answering at that moment someone is giving you the answer in the in the right way but correct me if I'm wrong there's no clear scientific understanding of what hypnosis is it's not like there's like you can clearly show like this is what's happening and that's how it works and this is why it works I need the answer to that but there is like I said forget the hypnotist in the performers there is a hole that big body is like a clinical work investigating it this is plenty a thing

are The Human Experience as to what it is well that's kind of

I thought I am one of the show's I did I did it took you to answer hand who assassinated Bobby Kennedy so he said it was like that that's his story about how that happened so we took that let's do it let's say we did it the show starts with a P golden some people that I thought the Taken part I find the most adjustable Post in the audience and by the end of that you find himself in the pack theater

no just never Springfield he's going to think she's a real gun what you think is that thing that is going to carry with them and they filming is going to do like we have a real gun on him and we shut off these little trinkets in the same way and said happened to him right so I just go with the polka dot dress as a sound that he has what we had as someone's ringtone next to him that it'll trigger that they had apparently implanted with that guy he has no idea this thing film just noticed all the shadow is in a pack theater we go Stephen Fry on stage right he's he's the guy that's going to get us some point during the show will the guy do it is a real gun expecting pandemonium from the audience and weird normalcy bias that kicks cement fine just sat there thinking is this part of the show is crowd control

which English test for the guy in the room instead of looking at what is what is going on with it off hypnotized into told him on hypnosis help you to come to be getting the ice off and you wouldn't feel the the temperature and I had no idea if you would cuz that's a real test is just soda playing along at some of that

you're not going to you know when I get in my Spotify. Even if it's kind of physiological State you can tap into to make that possible that some people with training can do as a first-time just stepping into it he's going to he's not going to do that I'm at these two clinical hypnotist with me

set a trailing he was come to be lying in this icebox and see the temperature you happy I try to him kind of laptop to a thumb across thing we have to put him out if he was at a certain temperature if I can even go to whatever it was 50 whatever that means we have to take it out

yeah that was that was extremely so although I I think it in very behavioral times I don't think of any kind of special we had stayed that's not what I need to know what was going on with that guy

it's chase a physiological possibility that we can do that because somebody can do it through lots of training so maybe just kind of with this guy cut to the Chase and he was able to just do it but I don't know what the next guy did it for me know I don't know what about that the ethical complications that are involved in having a guy literally perform murder and he doesn't what is he doesn't know that he's not performing murder a murder and then you put it on television he's murder I mean condition but that's terrifying and then this person that has never experienced anything like that before finds out that it's possible for him and that he actually The Squeeze is a trigger and watch it Stephen Fry fall to the ground squids go off and he thinks he's a murder and

look if you follow the logic that the FBI is use cuz the FBI's you similar logic to talk some pretty mentally challenged people into detonating fake bomb that were purchased from the FBI and those people in jail for life and this is a thing that happened in Dallas there was a young man who was very suggestible and he had some serious psychological problems probably and he was a radical and he wanted to become some sort of a terrorist weather was not paid Isis whatever and the FBI infiltrated this guy is life and set him up and and got him or whatever organization was with the CIA or FBI date or organize some sort of an artificial bomb they got this bomb to him had him set up the bomb and then gave him this you know ability to detonate it he goes to detonate it and then they arrest

so there was no bomb the bomb didn't exist they talked him into doing it and I talked him into doing it they provided him with the bomb the bomb didn't exist it wasn't a real bomb it was going to kill anybody and they took this person in the sensually did a version of what you did but it wasn't funny it wasn't for a television show but through the same intent through this guy's it just chill and the intent to kill Stephen Fry or the intent to kill whatever innocent people he was going to get with this bomb essentially they were both talked into doing it is no real evidence this guy would have ever done it without the FBI or CIA or whoever the fuck out to was it did that but if it is that it ended with him stepping in and going okay we're going to stop here this was an experiment yes been conditioned to do this we wanted to see if you

would you have done it and now he's a very confident that I could be anything to make sure you're okay that would be a different story

thing to do if if the guy was fine at the end of it and happy with it and it was in jail doing is awesome but I mean I think it's fat I think what they did it's kind of fucked up and not just fucked up but crazy that this is a waste of resources maybe I'm incorrect this person was on that path anyway and they recognize didn't they stepped in and said listen this guy's going to do something and we're going to help him and because we need to get this guy off the street so it's show that he's capable of detonate a bomb and tell me about yourself aliens and will provide him with whatever he needs them will get them maybe they did it that way I don't know I don't really know obviously it wasn't there but it seems really parallel Yeah well yeah my concern is

like I guess what makes heavy what makes the shows compelling of these sorts of questions they said if they have Beyond a controlled thing with one guy who's fine also it opens the door to the possibility that this has been done in the past is Manchurian Candidate possibility I thought I would have felt well that well that doesn't mean that his story is true of course it wasn't does Ryan ready to start after like that at all but but you did it was that kind of makes it worked

why did you write a book about happiness I graduated and I kind of was living in Bristol this lovely city in England and making my living as a magician because I wasn't started that I was just kind of thinking what I need some point with this just grow into a job I don't know but I know I know that my priorities are just kind of I want my life my days to feel like

this is good everything's in the right place in this is kind of an enjoyable in worth while last time in the old was wild existence and I never thought beyond that I've never had any kind of ambition genuinely good morning on how to grow dolphin you know the kid in and it's slightly embarrassed that you don't seem to care enough about the things that everybody else cares about the business see things in the viewing figures in the decide my interest was genuinely am I enjoying what I'm doing and is it worthwhile I got to read the stuff that's not like that Central message it's a big part of that or not

not trying to control things are out of your control not attaching itself to things that leave you kind of them and emotionally kind of vulnerable and you know if your relationship, it really was like your choice I read if I read a lot and it took me off at other direction that I started writing and I read this book on happiness it took me 3 years to write it while I was 3 years but blocks of blocks of rising not like 3 so late is

the end of a kind of had grown and changed and felt differently and I think anyone knows about stoicism immensely valuable resource in terms of if what you want is a sense of feeling sent it in the kind of emotional robustness in your life and you know if you suffer from anxiety and so it's it's it's phenomenal I think he doesn't deliver importance of anxiety it's all about voting and happiness was of Tranquility avoiding disturbance and actually goes to stop and she's really important anxiety is important in life is how do you change how do you grow

other than some anxiety triggers that let you know that something's wrong yes we just looked security all the time and I promise not to I'm very good at avoiding stress very good at avoiding anxiety but the danger zone am I going to grow all year I'm just going to just be too comfortable that's not that's not a good thing I'm sure we could feel the edges of stoicism in terms of the importance of anxiety and they not just leaving to come to me what is it is and it's not it's probably really up and was

it was a joke right stomach so they don't like it's not a recipe for complacency what you can often sound like when you talk about this kind of Tranquility you know an attachment. It is it's it's it's just it's very robust kind of language that talk about being like a rock with the waves crashing against you and I I prefer the image of philosophy rights what about these things that she she took about being more porous like a rock for the the waves the water can move through and I think that's more helpful than you can have a

I should have a replacement for the same time I kind of an easy poorest relationship with what's going on that gives you that easier relationship to fate and Fortune all those things that they used to honor and respect myself much more than we do now cuz you don't read tragedy so we don't think and tons of those things at oldest me to Pride and hubris now that they had lessons about but I think that's a good that's a good starting point for life in the US on Amazon. I think you find any book shelves but because of the like I'm to help you doing the pool twice show next year on these Netflix specials and things that you know so they need is now available and talks on happiness feeling oddly sad and I couldn't work out why because it's amazing for your watching protected and did not realize yeah I know the importance of some kind of price of a suit or something it brings you out

self is so important that's fascinating and that in the embracing of the anxiety of the difficulty of the task and finding upon its completion that I feel sad how to order at least it's kind of proof of concept I mean with what you're saying is to leak in this thing that you keep saying over and over again putting yourself into something bigger than you something something that you're you're you're attempting to work through and it through this difficult and all the struggle and trying to put this on you you gain some sort of intangible benefit from this you feel like you seem like you're someone that speaks out those things you see me have always liked the most yourself fully in things that would do that yes I'm a firm believer in the importance of difficult tasks I think I think seeking Comfort is one of the worst things a person can do in terms of achieving overall happiness I think overall happiness a lot of it

I'm through this amazing sense of wonder and the unknown and possibilities and working towards things with this embracing of having no idea how the what the result is going to be no idea where this going to go and being genuinely nervous about it every step of the way for something it doesn't come naturally cuz if it if that came and talked to me all the things I'm saying I'll take you late but because it's not an easy thing is the maybe life is is essentially difficult and all these lovely happy moments we have a wonderful but the not the kind of

turn off the central force of life which is it is it is difficult if you want to philosophy of life that has to work in those has to work at the attitude and what you Embrace those difficult moments and how you approach them you know if you if you relish them and then understand that there's going to be some genuine benefit from getting through these and whether it's a physical thing or a mental thing with its creative thing whatever it is as difficult like just Embrace this to a massive struggle and enjoy this like some of it although the Majesty of the unknown and then when you get through it on the other end you get a different level of happiness you get this powerful earned happy because you grow yeah yeah before and you don't need a gas on your own without having to let go be mother's hand at some point Sunday

death and Resurrection isn't just one of these mixes to have some residents coming you can grow you have to summon has to be like in order to step forward so if you're going to grow you have to has to be anxiety and disturbance in some kind of some sort of death in the metaphorical sense that's also with beautiful about if we just came easily I don't think it would be appreciated exactly and there's all this resistant Steven engaging in the first place it was hard to write the first word of a book right the first word sometimes you just sitting there anything you're trying to do is get it the first step of a 10 mile run all those things are the most difficult thing once you once you're going it's not nearly as hard it's getting going to something about overcoming all this anticipation and although the weirdness of it all you know and then once you do it and you realize you can do it it enriches you and all your future temps so it

something like you deciding to run a marathon would help you decide to write a book like all these different things are in two connected to the poet rilke trying to Maria rilke quotes about him was about the same age with like some people live in a big room and some people live in a small room and some people just like just pay something down by the window Linda instinctively how so and that I'm very good at avoiding I just think you're smart to avoid dry is a lot of it is like look the interaction between human beings is so who knows what the fuck's going to happen either we knew you that you don't know how people going to receive you there's potential bad feelings that could come with that is is all sorts of weird social anxiety and social cues that you have to read in the complications those make sure you get it right don't want to get it wrong don't want to be too rude don't want to be too forward to going to be too much

it said I think it's the case with everybody I mean that the the reason for shyness is there's a terrible feeling when you're rejected you know that the meeting someone who doesn't enjoy the way you presented yourself as an is an awful feeling that will haunt you for hours if not days three of them or if I've had the interactions of people then out two weeks later I'll be putting gas in my car just go over what did I say why did I say it like that all of that is there's a reason why people have some sort of weird anxiety about interaction the stuff that which is one of the difficulties so welcome bracing because if you can

if you can if you can embrace it that's where there is a kind of ugly Sublime spice because that you know that's the real stuff at 5 and then I'm at the the the happy moments well they might just be happy cuz you know she's great and wonderful information about that's kind of what's going on so those when we when we when were embroiled in the difficult in most human nature but there was a real growth in a kind of sort of

just a voice summer in the background or it's just a note of this is this is this is what binds everyone together and I think they are better type of happiness but it doesn't it doesn't come easy but I think life is about growing up is about tolerating ambiguity isn't it more than more than anything when were infants we scream and someone comes in and gives us the thing that makes it so yes good and British child psychologist Freud and then it's a lot of people felt terrible after Freud was actually the mother although the principal caregiver needs to be good enough what you need to do is sit gently let down her infant right because if you

if you

if you just grow up thinking that every time you scream so I was going to give you what you want if you make enough us you just get what you want that's not a very healthy way of growing up into a adult life on becoming a leader so instead what the what your mother caregiver needs to do is to is to let you know we need to learn

so likewise you know in life like living with disillusionment is like that's that's that's fine that's how it is if we don't have that if we live out this would have found to say that we owed the road something should wine Lowe's like that the secret that I did at the end of us is arranging itself around all banal wishes old and it's always like exorcism

they couldn't be any any further from the idea of wanting to leave kind of material games intermittent cycle people start talking about manifesting things which was it was outside of the conversation for quite a long time but now it seems to be coming back again or people are always looking for reasons why certain people are successful and and that's a big one the big one is this so this idea that people can manifest things their mind and you know when it comes from again discussing this with people who become successful and they're looking for a reason why they're successful it is very hard to credit lock an element

is an element The Power of Positive Thinking is an element elements but they're all combined with circumstance lock genetics big cultural interactions the way human beings that just the time of the year you're born you know I mean there's so many different factors there's so many things that can lead made and also where you're born and you do know where are you where are you living with all these things have a huge factor in your success try being an entrepreneur in Ethiopia and it's a different experience than being a tech startup guy in San Francisco to say well cop I just wasn't thinking about it the right way he didn't he didn't make a wish board and put his pictures of his his house was Ferrari in front of it or whatever the fuck is trying to its

send it isn't it's the infant search screaming into the universe will provide the universe doesn't care what's a perspective enhancer I mean no the universe in in and of itself is a prospective an answer if you can go somewhere in the country where there's no light pollution see the Milky Way and just you get this okay okay this is a lot bigger than I'm thinking so I think it's one of the real problems we have with our society with with electrical lights that sort of blind out star stop saying and don't get humbled is that the book I mentioned spell of the sensuous this guy David Evans without living in rural East Asia Heat

describe the very beginning this amazing image living in this hot and it was just in the middle of the night and you just kind of us being there for an oil to season is Paddy field which is become drenched with water I would rain

he steps out and you have this incredible star filled clear sky

which is reflected puppies picture back up off of that right so star filled Sky Its Reflection public like at like a mirror in this drenched in almost potty filled it is everywhere in between flying around Riley's little little specks of light and they had no sense of like what was that what was down this feeling of falling through space as I know we don't get a lot of that we don't get a lot of out that way we missed that part the galactic part we really do it's so unfortunate whenever I'm out in the country and I look up I see it I got I was in Utah couple of months ago and it was we're way in the mountains and it was there was no light just nothing and you look up and just fill Stars every inch of the sky and stars on it it's just it's it's so humbling and I think it's such a powerful image

human beings and it's inspired so much so much pain during throughout human history and so so much philosophy and so much so much of the way people interpret our position in the universe is based on this image is undeniable image of the cosmos that it's so magnificent and yet in our

amazing technological society that we've created we have a side effect that side effect is light pollution that light pollution has shut off one of the most magnificent Inspirations that's available in the natural world it's available to us every night instead we block it out with fucking 7-Eleven lights and not just noticed that the widest sense of the mystery that you can't we have people like me about magicians doing tricks and psychic mediums returning to connect with the dead that's like Audrey and

watching a psychic it was one of those TV filmed ones but that's about as an audience looks just like I said before filming starts he came out and you said I was going to come through at all these hands go up and just ask people so we know what are you hoping will come through okay what they look like is there anything cuz I'll let you know if they come through as one thing I can also any bit of information they could give me that nobody could possibly know that will prove to you it's them yes yes he he drowned he was wearing a red sweater okay if I'm going to let you know if he comes through and then they stopped filming Andy just said all those things to them and I think it's like people do believe it is the law is so ugly that it's so much easier to believe something amazing must be going on there then ride is he is it just that ugly and pathetic that's such a horrible experience so many of them and they have a television shows where they are there was a medium television show where the woman was connecting p

dead relatives and was so fake they just the questions were shity it was so poorly thought-out it wasn't just a lie was a lie by Elmore on that's a shame I got like 50 people up on stage very accurate information but at the same time saying I am you know I'm lying right and then you can put me in touch with my dead grandmother I hope you understand from what I just done the I don't I'm not really doing it that's kind of the point you don't understand I know you can't redo it but would you be able to put me

she's kind of dissonance well that's how Cults work right away they can work once you get a hold of the manuscript and you read whatever it was whether it's Mormonism and Joseph Campbell the 14 year old boy found golden tablets that contain the Lost work of Jesus that only he could read with his magic searstone if you if you you know if you have any critical thinking left in you at all that point you just you put the book down yo what the fuck am I doing with my life but people don't want that they want they want to do the universal so open-ended and the possibility of your your existence expiring at any moment and you just Vanishing into nothingness this Consciousness just literally stopping the lights go black and that's it it so terrifying does that we we would prefer some nonsensical unreal

stick version of something but rigid so we know how to follow it and a bunch of other people follow it as well and we have this community of people that follow it we gain Comfort Inn on some very very strange does am an unexpected

comfort that comes with the set of

the meaning of this event which I have recently kind of found it the lord of the people in your life and the people that people that you work with and she at all but that I can owe you and then not being a constant source of being an egg-laying irritation intimidated by or they were going to pick up the people that just got to populated your life at Walmart would I find that like a

it's a lot easier that kind of love it's a lot easier to love when you realize it isn't the end of the day it's all that's going to be that was that guy that was with you when your life kind of annoying you but that was like one of those one of these people in the puppy kind of just reset it in terms of set of attitudes towards people that the engine to any kind of nervousness irritation intimidation any of those things it's like a that sounds good to me the characters of the population my life in the nuts

have a nice thing so that makes sense it does so in embracing that there is no great-grand meaning to it all this sort of lets you would let me intimidation doesn't famous person that maybe I never even met but like how weird that that was just like a full swith in my life that person represented something and he said that it's just a lot easier to go out in the world with love which team is ultimately

with that thought

I think don't listen that's a great attitude because at any time you can have less annoyance in Albay person who's just whether they're ignorant and or they confused or agitated or what whatever is causing them to behave in a way that uncomfortable for you anytime you can just sort of just Aikido that so to like relax and let it roll off you just keep moving and go out what do you do and I mean that's one less thing you have to wrestle with in your psyche and that's just that's just a recipe for emotional success. Do not under your control so you can decide those things are fine and that such a

watch a really like that idea drop into the sold so it's not what if it's fine if my partner handles stress then cruise that louder than to be a better partner and maybe be more helpful if you like like service success on with matters of social injustice what you think I need to I need to go out and change that in the world is that it's like a game of tennis if you go to a game of tennis thinking I must win

then what happens when you start to lose you become anxious you didn't play as well you're trying to control something you can't lose if you go into that same game thinking I will play the very best of my ability is that's that's on the line to fuel filter in your actions have something under your control and you'll play better you'll get better results that's that's a that's a big a big thing to me when I get stressed about things as I find out something is really niggling why I'm bothering me that sort of like and on his fights it's always fine it's always something outside of the Thornton action is always something else and it is fine it's someone else's thing that is just the way that manifest in that is annoying me but it's like it's fine it is fine it feels like I've been nice to me to wake up on a Saturday morning and think I have to go to school and then realize I didn't I got a relief I feel as an adult's I'm out for just that kind of fun well I don't think it's a complacency thing I mean did the ideas that you're you're you fear that this attitude would lead

complacency I think it just leads to you picking your battles wisely allocating resources right you're not concentrating on some shit you're not going to control anyway you know grabbing some guy you don't even know what's up man you got to straight your fucking life out you're annoying and this is why I like way to interact with people you're way better off just keep certainly can't control him but you can control your reaction him there's some there's a certain amount of pride and just being able to like huh whatever and just to a person or thing or person's behavior that you might have been Furious about just a few years ago you don't work deeply irritated by where it would cling with you for days you be in your car thank you

really good but the ability to just let that go or to even enjoy it even enjoy it it's good to be the way that stars in CBT, CBT therapy is the kind of short form therapy that is essentially getting into the process of how I got it from Spider-Man that works and make people by being more more minute racing those things back where they come from and song

but it is the the founder of them

what kinds of CBT verse wisdom explicitly

how that is coming back I want wonder what it is what it is and I called you this now made his stuff since he was very very popular now and there's not that that's what of a reaction against against psychoanalysis I suppose it's running shorts are quicker onzas which may be Taps into this

difficulty tolerating ambivalence and complexity sort of rediscovering things and I think I think that happens with I think it happens with yoga I think it happens with meditation how they become involved and then they died out for a while when a new generation certificates it or doesn't wear and then someone catches on to it 10 15 years later then it becomes very popular again for talking about it then you yeah it's it's weird things we do without knowledge you know I mean this is our version of oral history we just passed things on and in this sort of a weird way work you know we we forget that these are tools and then people start discussing their benefits and discussing the the positive results I've had with it and then it's sort of buildup

as an atheist but we hung up on the walking down the things that I actually just signpost back to something that is important is vital but just very difficult to articulate we need to set the God is dead he meant that the unknowable God is now dead because we have but now we just have to see this thing that we cool. Which is just like the big guy and that we know we put like a box around it and go to that and in doing so we kind of lost that top for that numinous unknowable thing which irrespective of what you believe I can religious believe it's represents something I don't know

. what even is a hot-headed rationalist is sort of like there's a lot of that thing because we need we need to know what is a step outside of ourselves a great way to put it higher for some sort of a practice of humility and an untrue all and I would love to if you could go back in time and interact with people where everyone believed in Thor and Zeus will probably be absolutely fascinating to watch how these people live their lives with his undying faith in these DVDs that were in control of all the matters of the unit with no scientific knowledge of all must be amazing and you think about the fact that that was I mean what how many

thousands of years of human history people like that with the humor humeral serious of them of a medicine you know we believed it was you know that the firing flamand those kind of ethereal substances in the body that's like that it was only at that point that medicine became something that was could actually start to fight against death ward off debts to which means destinythegame the enemy and that's what we start to lose that kind of respect for the death of some sort of companion Robin just some sort of strange but that lets that Sonia

as a magician of cold you very quickly developing you know a lot of showing that was that goes hand-in-hand debunking the dean of the charlatans in the world episode of spiritual nonsense about but that's a separate thing that's a different that's a different thing and I guess I'll take you later because it doesn't doesn't come naturally you know it's we find things that sort of compelling because I didn't come naturally do that I saw you know I I I don't quite know what that means to me but I think if I

if I knew to easily what it meant to me it might have lost something in the in the mix you know I think that I think the relationship to

allowing your life to

to to grow and to transform into whatever that means has to be shortly

drive at some level otherwise would just pacing up and down by that window yeah otherwise what are we doing

what are we doing Darren I don't know I don't know what you don't know I need lunch I have to go see if my house is burned to the ground what is Marshall's here yeah Marshalls here we're all good my family is in a hotel but thank you thank you so really fun discussion I don't think I really enjoyed it back if ice is available right now on Netflix on the Miracle which was the the faith healing thing I was talking about as well as of stuff on YouTube thank you

thank you for tuning in to the podcast and thank you to our sponsors thank you to Simply Safe go get yourself a fantastic SimpliSafe service for 24/7 professional monitoring from SimpliSafe it only cost you $14.99 it's fucking beautiful and it's an outstanding service

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tree service kit at 23andme.com Rogan that's the number 23 and me.com Rogan okay we made it through damn we got a lot of podcast this week right well Derren Brown was kind of a last-minute addition and I really wanted to get him in and boy but I can say that about Shane Dorian was the last minute one too we want to get him into some lotto and Dale Earnhardt jr. was awesome what a fucking cool sincere guy that's really enjoy talking to him really enjoy talking to Michael malice too. So fucking fun week Christina pazsitzky was hilarious that was probably one of my favorite once a week that was Tuesday listen loved it had a great week and it's not over we're going to do if I can pay me tomorrow that is if

fires don't get worse it's apparently it is entirely possible they can get worse it's so fucking crazier people that are from out of town if you're not used to the LA fire thing every now and again in California particular Colorado gets these and Montana's had them but we get them you don't know in Irving area it's very strange that it happens in such an urban place once a year so we get these giant fucking firestorms in the one that's hit us right now is probably the worst one I've ever seen mean it's enormous they've evacuated the entire city of Malibu David evacuated just Thousand Oaks Westlake all these areas which are off the 101 freeway with your ROM

out near us with a studio is and it's fucking bananas the sky is just thick with smoke and these in Norma's clouds in the distance it just it looks it looks fake it really does

we hope everybody's okay you know I mean it's it's awful that people lose their houses but at the end of the day you realize that

but what really counts is your health and your family and your friends and your loved ones and

I just hope everybody's okay that's my message get safe and don't don't try to be risky and try to wait it out I mean I saw people using hoses to try to hose their house down just man just get the fuck out of there and hope your insurance holds up and save you life alright much love to you all and hopefully we'll see you tomorrow if not we will definitely see you on Monday unless fucking in the world happens when she could get crazier my boy Tom Segura will be here with Sean Anders on on Monday

and that should be fun also will Mondays double-header

Ross Edgley I want to say his name wrong that's the guy that swam the entire distance of the UK right when Tom and Bert and arry and I was trying to feel good about ourselves we find about this fucking guy this guy swim 12 hours a day for 6 months

what a psycho he must be he'll be here on Monday that's it alright we'll talk to you soon much love to you all bye bye

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