#1204 - Steven Rinella

The Joe Rogan Experience #1204 - Steven Rinella

November 16, 2018

Steven Rinella is an outdoorsman, author, and television host. He currently hosts “MeatEater” available on Netflix, and a podcast also called “MeatEater” available on iTunes. His new cookbook "The MeatEater Fish and Game Cookbook" is available on November 20.

Episode Sponsors

Help improve this transcript!

► 00:00:00

ladies and gentleman folks boys and girls people how you doing this episode of the podcast brought to you by the cash app the cash apps maybe you know maybe you don't know it's the number one finance app on the App Store but what you might not know is that you can put the cash in your wallet with the cash card

► 00:00:22

the cash card is the only debit card that offers instant rewards and comes packed with premium features that not even a credit card can offer like boosts with Boost you can save up to 10% at Whole Foods Chipotle Shake Shack and more of your favorite spots even a dollar off coffee every time you swipe your cash card at coffee shops across the country and the cash card put you in control of your money with extra in app safety features that let you pause your card with a touch and unlike a credit card there are no fees ever and a credit check is not required to get one it's a sweet app it's a beautiful deal I love the fact that you get this card and I love the fact you could buy and sell Bitcoin with the cash app

► 00:01:07

download the catch up now and get your cash card for free because the app store or the Google Play Market now and of course when you download the cash app and to the referral code Joe Rogan 1 Word you'll get $5 in the cash app will send $5 to Justin wrens fight for the Forgotten charity building Wells for the pygmies in the Congo were also brought to you by 23 and me in 23 and me actually came up in this conversation with my friend Steve rinella today and the podcast totally naturally what does is 23andMe is named after the 23 pairs of chromosomes that make up your DNA and 23andMe is a personal genetic service that helps you understand what your DNA can tell you about you and your family story and you know it's it's an interesting thing to know where you come from did you inherit you know this from your mom and your dad and how much of your

► 00:02:07

how much is in your DNA compared to your brothers and your sisters you know if everybody does it together it's really a fascinating thing to discover you can see how your DNA breaks out across a hundred and fifty plus regions worldwide you can trace parts of your ancestry to a specific group of individuals from 1000 + years ago and you could also discovered how much Neanderthal DNA you inherited

► 00:02:31

top 10 and connect with DNA relatives and find other 23andMe customers you share your DNA and ancestors it's very easy to do they send you a tube you just spit into the tube provided in your 23andMe kit you register your sample to your personal 23andMe account and in a few weeks you receive your personalized online reports very easy I did it it's interesting confirmed most of what I already knew I'm mostly Italian a little bit of Irish and but I also have some stuff in there I didn't know like 1.6% African I think I have some Asian to me as well anyway now through Thanksgiving 23andMe ancestry service kids are only $49 per kid and when you buy two or more kits that's 50% off the regular kit price of $99 this holiday so now through Thanksgiving $49 per kid when you buy two or more

► 00:03:31

so order your 23andMe ancestry service kit at 23andme.com/Rogan that's 23 the number 23andMe.com/Rogan and last but not least we are brought to you by my bookie

► 00:03:52

if you want to place a bet but you didn't because you are afraid to pick the wrong team will this Thanksgiving it's finally possible for you to get 100% refund on your bet if you lose it what

► 00:04:04

what's a turkey day FreePlay you can actually bet the spread on either the Bears or the Lions if it wins you win if it loses my bookie will give your money back up to $250

► 00:04:21

you literally cannot lose its no risk all gravy the sounds to me like my bookie knows how fun it is to use it and the try not to sweat a sweet talk to you in that's what I think my book you offer such a great product there's literally never been a better time to try them out there really never has been a better try how the fuck can you do that anyway unless you're Sportsbook is offering something like this I think you should make the switch I've never even heard of a Sportsbook doing a free be like this and I doubt it'll ever happen again these guys a trustworthy fast and helpful so I know they're good for it if you're new to sports betting and have a lot of questions that's okay too because my book He's patient customer service can walk you through any questions you might have about how betting Works sign up this week and my bookie will give you a 50% deposit

► 00:05:15

to jumpstart your bankroll so it's a great way the bank even more money when you win log on to my bookie right now and use a promo code Rogan to get 50% deposit bonus

► 00:05:29

that's promo code Rogan you don't need a promo code for your turkey day FreePlay if you lose they will credit you the money back into your account automatically so what are you waiting for sign up today and don't miss out on the gravy train had my bookie my bookie

► 00:05:48

and use the promo code Rogan my guess today is a good friend of mine he is an author Hunter a conservationist a very well-read and Brilliant person give it up for my friend mr. Steven rinella

► 00:06:06

The Joe Rogan Experience

► 00:06:14

what's funny I was going to tell you a funny story about your address but about wouldn't talk later about that we share African ancestry and I'm 1.6% it's funny cuz

► 00:06:40

nicer to have your the story in your family, like where you came from 25% you know Italian family came from Sicily the back the rinella that came from Sicily all seem to become kind of established in the in the produce world my dad was brought up in the southside of Chicago

► 00:07:08

I'm 44 years old okay so think about that for a minute my dad's brought the southside of Chicago when he was raised by his grandfather who is Sicilian income from Sicily his grandfather delivered produce with a horse and cart in Chicago

► 00:07:24


► 00:07:27

that lives do that like to be brought up in a house for a guy like leaves in the morning and a horse and cart to deliver produce and end of be alive like to fight in World War II be through the atomic era the Advent of the internet right but I always knew that we had Sicilians when I did that the genetic test want some of those at some point I'm one of those Sicilians must have shot self word and cross the Mediterranean in like how to hook up down there or something well that was the history of Sicily in the first place to sleep just being Sicilian in the first place there's so many people that were impregnated by the Moors and by various people of West Africa and North Africa yeah I should have probably like always assume but it just I hadn't thought about it

► 00:08:20

I don't think I was reading about the stuff you might know more about it than I do is that when you do those tests is missing parts

► 00:08:27

you know it doesn't like it captures what's there but this could be a lot of there that's not captured just in the way that chromosomes are you know inherited and passed down there could be influences

► 00:08:43

you could there could be in your in it doesn't create a full picture of your lineage there could be lineages that are there that aren't represented in your particular makeup house at like what do you mean

► 00:08:57

he know I hate the right off the bat get into something that I can't speak about any level of expertise I just reading a piece and the piece I was reading had to do is kind of a dissection of like what happened with Elizabeth Warren

► 00:09:11

she claimed we've been going off about that on the podcast and I'm like a hundred times more African than that she is Native American but yeah well that's what I found I'm ten times more or whatever but there's a piece about it was it was a piece in the X explaining like how to make sense of not doing these tests I got to think about make sense he test but but my understanding of it is

► 00:09:34

that you could have a lot of ancestry that just isn't captured

► 00:09:41

in your genetic code in the way that would be detected through the testing mean there could be ancestors that for what cuz you're inheriting half you know you're in chromosomes from each parent

► 00:09:51

and then somehow you could have you could be an incomplete picture you could have ancestors that had come from all that you know whatever these these tasks break out the world to do a hundred and some-odd regions or zones that there could be people from those own tour in your lineage that are not captured in your personal that are not captured in your genetic code that's so bizarre you think it'll be in there such as an incomplete measuring tool is that what it is or is it just not in there I don't know I'm going to have to have a dude I understand how much Neanderthal to tell you less than normal and you know and those things like a refined by how many people do you know but it was less than average bum me out Harry is like a 13 year old like no reason

► 00:10:51

surprised that its Heritage and I love the idea that there was a different type of human that bread with Homo sapiens and that there's like little bits and pieces of it floating around and people will discuss them

► 00:11:12

people disgust me and or taller neanderthals everyone goes up Sandy and it's one of those things you spell switch once you realize how you're supposed to do it I go back and forth there's a lot of words at like that word I know you're supposed to do it but I can't get comfortable with it cuz I feel like it makes sound pretentious and certain Spanish words we have this idea of the Neanderthals as unsuccessful

► 00:11:41

bright bright series British dogs that died out but there's a 600000 year run in Europe and then Homo sapiens of actually existed so whatever's meant like we're going to match up well we'll probably have a 23andMe for whatever the fuck is after us they look somebody back then fucked a human has crazy warmonger rapist thieving humans die out over run with emotions and lies and they said someone someone of a superior race infiltrated the humans and banged one of them yeah it's it's it's funny to look at that that understanding of of those that understanding of those people took picture in your mind I can't picture it like it was look like

► 00:12:41

working out

► 00:12:42


► 00:12:44

are you know like anatomically and kind of behavior early modern humans were

► 00:12:52

hooking up with neanderthals was it was how is it perceived by their peers I bet the people that we think of his people back then like you know George The Animal Steele is no George Animal Steele is a very famous pro wrestler from back in the day and I thought you're going to say it was a paleontologist Ranger colleges could be a fucking cake man like legitimately could be a caveman see if you you got a good image of them now this is what I think when I think of people that would give me a full body one

► 00:13:28

Dago when I think of people Homo sapiens Homo sapiens from Reno 200,000 years ago I think it's George The Animal Steele I think there was something like that so the idea of George fucking a neanderthal check not that far off I think our ideas like that like Dan Rather would be out there banging some monkey lady I don't think that's the case I look at George's body I mean Jesus fucking Christ he's got the hairiest shoulders I've ever seen a man I do not know I don't believe he is I hope he's not listening right now I don't believe he is he's a legend legend in the world of the pro wrestling but when I was a kid in high school he's olds fuck yeah that's a hard way to make a live map

► 00:14:28

what's a good run for for those guys that's a fucking hard way to make a living but talked about

► 00:14:35

the the idea of Neanderthals is like having a confrontational hunting Style

► 00:14:42

no I don't like we have cuz when when

► 00:14:45

when do colleges look at the the skeletal remains of Neanderthals AC to sort of sweet of this pattern of injuries on them and research was looking at the types of fractures that they have on their bones and where the fractures occurred in the brakes and like cracks in their skulls

► 00:15:05

you he was looking at all this and wound up working with a doctor who had a lot of exposure to Rodeo Riders bull riders

► 00:15:16

and the doctor was was observing

► 00:15:20

the way in which that sweet of injuries was very familiar to him from Rodeo Riders the types of breaks in the location of breaks in the sky has this idea that they had a like a very confrontational hunting style but they're like mixing it up with big animals in our thing they found is that

► 00:15:39

what are you looking at skeletal remains from early people you still see that separation in the Sexes right that the males would suffer injuries at with a greater prevalence in females that was in the and Earth all it seems like they didn't have the satellite duplicity of rolls so many that are females the females

► 00:16:04

have the same prevalence of of these types of injuries and so maybe they didn't have that the didn't share that division of labor where the females as large as the males I don't know the answer to that so we know that they had stone tools right The Croods stone tools but we don't know whether or not they had anything that could launch them like they didn't have to date would do we know if they had Spears I don't believe that they found they had atlatl for and I don't know if they were hafting materials but they were doing they were doing art

► 00:16:35

and I think this little bit of a debate about whether they're doing representational art but they were doing art they're doing they were probably making jewelry and is that these are all things that as soon as you can like wake up to what these people really like and it paints like a more complicated picture there's even the steering I don't know if this helps any water how long it was fashionable for but you just really long history of

► 00:16:59

is extremely long as you're hundreds of thousands years of Neanderthal you know occupation in Europe and then it seemed to be a member Someone putting forth this idea that it seemed to be that there was a flourishing of advancement that was contemporaneous with the arrival of our own ancestors in Europe is though they were being exposed to

► 00:17:25

or seeing art and seeing jewelry in mimicking this from these new Invaders that were coming in but I don't know where that idea sits right now I don't know if it's been two spelled cuz of other Discovery an interesting idea that they would kind of paint is really sad picture right that they would be sort of in the Autumn you know of their existence and he's adorned people showing up with these amazing tool kits and all these abilities and kind of struggling to start to catch up you know I'll be like the country bumpkin you know we're going to the big city in idea I think up until very recently that neanderthals were not as violent as humans as Homo sapiens but now there was an article that was published just a couple of days ago the new evidence shows the Neanderthals like in turn into tall violence between each other was just as bad as a homo sapiens and evidence of cannibalism

► 00:18:25

name of tools

► 00:18:27

oh I block her got busted

► 00:18:30

they get this every time with the fucking ad blocker yeah

► 00:18:38

what is the saying humans are just a violinist neanderthals with the writer Jon mooallem know you'd like his stuff he wrote a really beautiful piece about you are really beautiful piece about neanderthals not long ago okay I fucked it up what they're saying is that modern humans or just as prone to violence as neanderthals I don't have a problem about inter inter species violence Neanderthal on Neanderthal violence

► 00:19:07

do you think it's weird about them as they have bigger brains than us they have bigger brains and they would be like five seven and weigh 200 pounds just jacked just a little gorilla thing you know you'll be great to see it there's a really dumb theory that was being bounced around a few years ago it was really hilarious about how we wiped out we are assume that neanderthals you don't even soft tissue samples we send the Neanderthals looked similar to humans but because of the very different shape of their skull this guy had instead of giving them european-looking white skin turn them into a gorilla turn them into a giant muscle bound gorillas that prayed on people and this is like I believe it was an Ashley is actually was a professor and it seemed almost like a goof at first remember this Jamie we pull this up a few times

► 00:19:57

like killer Neanderthal Theory thing called drawn this thing black like a gorilla would like giant muscles all over the place and these big crazy eyes and that painting neanderthals as a predator of humans and that's why we wiped them out my limitations as see how do I log into my limitations as an as an anthropologist I'm certainly not an anthropologist at all just dues interested in it but one of my limitations is out here series floated okay

► 00:20:32

and I don't follow them long enough to see which ones have any traction right I'll just read about them and I don't I don't take it as gospel but I'll read about it and I'll be like that's interesting and sort of like shaped my understanding of it but then I don't keep track of it like I try to really follow the story like the peopling of the Americas so when it comes over to the human history of the Western Hemisphere I sort of the following like ideas we could float and I'll track the idea to see where it lands in terms of scholarly consensus but I know stuff like with with neanderthals I'm always a sucker for a neanderthal story but I don't track what ideas did Florida up or just very quickly denounces being complete rubbish yeah it's a weird one you know it takes time to follow the stuff go go to that other picture that's what it is and yeah but look at the idea

► 00:21:32

there's some way better once there's some way better images with a Drew of full body ones

► 00:21:39

they had is it in the article was a link to the official website for just go go to that and then go to images cuz there was some really bizarre bar fucking yeah there is upper left-hand Corner this is what this guy is making me famous come on yeah yeah it's pretty preposterous

► 00:22:10

but things like that now did they know

► 00:22:15

what is an easy morphine in the NFL into a gorilla that was trying to do but yeah but bleeding teeth

► 00:22:30


► 00:22:31

it's it's and then there's do even know what those dinovi ins how do you say that word the one from Russia are they have that that one's not that one I don't know that your cookbook is fucking fantastic it's really good you put a lot of goddamn working in that thing you can tell it's really good cuz I don't want to look like

► 00:23:01

what was it boring time on the info. I'm out of stuff to say about him anyway I can go on for days that's the problem

► 00:23:17

what's up

► 00:23:22

how many I don't know this but how many people in the Wildlife World listen to show I hear about it at work I'm like a conduit where I'm often times getting frantic text messages as though I would be able to jump in and you know clarify butter how a porcupine quill works

► 00:23:49

yeah it's really funny how you people out here from what I could tell I know like when you're on the subject of wildlife in the room you got a real issues and sexual selection example like a sexual display Utah this year and when we are butchering it the one of the hindquarters have been punctured by an antler and it got infected and when we cut into the hindquarter just this bucket of pus came out and it was fucking nasty I was pissed at first like someone actually puncture the bladder and then we realized we got deep into it there was like literally right in the blank and is just so fucking nasty find really high pressure

► 00:24:49

pus pockets

► 00:24:51

and like your nails all over his body at holes holes in his ribs his face in the face I got a Sika deer last year who had losses I completely gone means like his eyeball have been punctured and people harass me will no one you got them but I was like no I was good I was facing me on his line of approach if he didn't know where you were

► 00:25:26

years ago

► 00:25:30

because I want to have this like really complete idea of how to process everything so like the book includes everything from how to process a bullfrog you know to a deer to pig to a mahi-mahi in a primer only when I've done books is an Ever wind up needing I never wind up needing to like padam in the end I always want of having very painful

► 00:25:54

Cuts yeah you know what I did my book my book American buffalo number I had to lose a hundred Pages which was hard to do when we did the complete guide to hunting butchering cooking while game it came out at 700 Pages do you ever think of going back and put those 100 Pages back into her to think it made sense to remove now in hindsight it had to happen it had to happen that's way the narrative stuff I've written that's the narrative nonfiction I've written that's my favorite thing that I've done and it had to happen both painful and the guy book series came in 700 pages in my publisher was

► 00:26:35

my publisher was like yeah I just don't really make 700-page book since I saw you want to do in the volume 1 and volume 2 weeks I didn't want to get rid of any but then he doing this this cookbook the meat eater fish and game cookbook so it's called and putting this together I think early on we started to get a little bit kind of running a little bit wild about what was going to fit but then caught it earlier but I was the first me to start collecting the pictures because a lot of times you look at a book illustrated book and it kind of smells like a photoshoot and I'm saying where you can tell the sort of how they got the images and I didn't want to feel like that I wanted to sort of feel like really representative like so many different places and different experiences that are captured in here and so he started filming is processed shots of how to walk stuff through like everything you know how do I turn things how to take an animal to make it into a variety of usable ingredients

► 00:27:34

collecting all those

► 00:27:38

took a long time and then and then actually like assembling it putting putting it together was more systematic once we had that under way but you know where it's kind of like half could almost pass as a coffee table book I agree yeah I know really good and I think it's a really valuable resource for people that hunt because it's just mean that is only so many different ways you can cook back straps right there's so many different ways you can put ground venison into spaghetti sauce you know such a wide variety of things to including your original books as well a wide variety of things to you know to to cook and ways to cook them that's one of things I really enjoyed about yourself you know and still do but now that it's on Netflix I actually enjoy it even more but they you do a lot of cooking on your show that's very rare in that the hunting world's you know you see these hunting shows they're very one-dimensional you see someone looking for

► 00:28:38

the animal and then they finally get it in the end but you spend a great deal of time break it down animals and cooking the bunch of different things including like marrow and Shanks unusual preparations I think that's really important yeah that's it was

► 00:28:56

it was always there for me growing up and

► 00:29:00

Hunting Fishing very complicated you need Doom for a bunch of reasons I think that people in explaining hunting to audiences responding to people who were on initiated

► 00:29:11

uninformed about it maybe adversarial toward it you sort of you wind up grabbing these things that you were grabbing these things that that you think will resonate with them right I have a friend Greg blaskovich who'd even worked on this research piece of taking justifications for hunting

► 00:29:32

and finding

► 00:29:35

test subjects who are skeptical of hunting in explaining various justifications to them and seeing which ones of those they find to be most impactful so he's actually done research around when you take this great like this broad spectrum of reasons people do this you know and then everyone that has many of them as part of their story right and in you you run by people he see these ones that they that they really resonate and which ones can move the needle in their perception of it and it's a little bit surprising there's some surprises in there of ones you think would be like really impactful but in fact or not impactful at all if you don't care about like what well population control

► 00:30:20

people I think the people don't

► 00:30:24

the kind of people you're talking about who are largely unfamiliar with it but they're looking at it from the outside in the skeptical of it they have a hard that they don't buy it I don't think that they are afraid of deer

► 00:30:35

generally but people who live in high population areas like I did gig once in Western Massachusetts well yeah I was in Western Massachusetts and I had to drive I was coming from New York and how to drive through the most deer infested place I've ever been to in my life it will completely insane like we're driving on the highway you have to go 25 30 miles an hour if things are just jumping in front of your car every 15-20 seconds it was fucking nuts man and I would I took the side road down to get to wherever the gig was you know and I'm just watching the animal jump in front of a car like left and right I'm like these people that live here these things are God damn nuisance I give this was everyday reality and you ask those people he said hey what do you think about deer population control we need to hunt to keep the population down to be like fuck yeah you do I'm sure there are like quite a lot of people to live in some of these areas they have a great abundance of deer that feel that way but

► 00:31:35

general population when he was looking at it with just general population thing and it was. Too he didn't get he didn't give a lot of he didn't go in and give case scenarios and examples of just a question that you asked and people it didn't like immediately quick of people people but it's extremely important to me is issues around Heritage and Legacy some meaning that my maternal grandfather my paternal grandfather were Hunters my father was a hunter I was brought up hunting to 900 doesn't matter your grandparents and parents could have been involved in all kinds of bad shit I don't do that means you need to continue doing bad shit it's very obvious is people understand

► 00:32:24

people understand and respect the idea of food like your general population of looking respect that you food now to back up what I was getting at about you mentioned that that being a big Alum of the show

► 00:32:36

it almost being there

► 00:32:40

it was like I was like fortunate or lucky or whatever that that that early my career I started focusing on talking about that aspect of it but it wasn't something I just made up out of nowhere because it was a huge part of growing up where it for whatever reason I had to be raised by

► 00:32:57

a dad who

► 00:33:00

was just really interested in cooking stuff and sharing with people you know and if he if you're driving down the road in June and you see a snapping turtle

► 00:33:09

laying eggs on the side of the road it's come up out of a swamp and you need to find some Sandy ground he finds it on the edge of a dirt road and they're just laying eggs on the side of the dirt road we were eating at Turtle right and everything we ate you know all kinds of fish can be a lot of things other people weren't interested in we could go out and then bring back our dad bullfrogs you would love if we went out and got them frogs we take our bows out at night using flashlight switch unbeknownst to me was illegal and remains it illegal in the state where I was brought up even from frogs use artificial light for frogs Yeah I found that out later no idea how bad that you weren't supposed to do that when we come in and bring them and it was like a big thing right to bring her dad the frog legs on the salmon run in the rivers in October and you would have people over we would have a salmon boil

► 00:34:03

you know so I was raised around that stuff of looks of celebrating Wild game haven't been very social having to be a way to connect salmon boil boiled fish

► 00:34:15

so you take your ears you're literally cubing up salmon and pearl onions and little baby potatoes to boil then you drain it off and you have drawn butter and you drown all that shit and drawn butter it's good sounds good but it doesn't sound like a fish boil flavorful fish would lose some of that in the broth yeah for sure but it's like when it's like when you have the pearl onions and a little baby potatoes and Cubed up and he drown all that shit and bought her it's just like a thing people like taste is really good but it's not necessarily the taste of salmon if you want to great if you went to the Pacific Northwest and asked like a bunch of great chefs in the Pacific Northwest to list your five favorite Sam and preparations boiling them in a pot of water is he is going to be on is going to make their list

► 00:35:11

keep thinking we would do that you know I know you think I need invite people over to do it so

► 00:35:18

I kind of early I like early on with all the things I enjoyed about hunting like the food aspect was big for me in really informed

► 00:35:29

all of the sort of conversations I've had around it since and sold it in doing a show about hunting wasn't something I was going to it wasn't something I was going to lean out but in all fairness when I was growing up

► 00:35:41

traffic to and trap muskrat Beaver make all kinds of stuff and I was doing that to sell the to sell the first and I would use up some of the meat how do you some of the meat debate at sometimes sell meet the dog sled Racers when did you realize the beaver word delicious not till after I I think I know the first one when I was in the first one ever 8 oz + Community College I still tell people about the beaver that you cook for us in Wisconsin and I put it is and they look at you sideways and like I'm telling you man it was like the most delicious pot roast I've ever had was fantastic was really good stories about early on with the one early explorers are in this country they had a difficult time getting fish sometimes and beaver were approved for the Lenten meal

► 00:36:31

because they were aquatic so on Fridays when you had to have like it when you're supposed to have your meat free day you were allowed to eat Beaver meat because they were a water animal is very popular food item

► 00:36:43

if all I'm saying yeah yeah yeah I know I get it there was the first ones we ate I had started reading about eyes red narrative stories about the mountain men meaning like a very specific thing like a you know Rocky Mountain Beaver Trapper who is sandwiched between who is sandwiched in time between the end of the Lewis and Clark expedition and the collapse of the Beaver Market in the 1840s all like so very like finite. X what a mountain man was explain to people how big the beaver Market is this is going to blow people's minds well America's first note after John Jacob Astor like the beaver Market made America's first millionaires

► 00:37:29

his fortunes came for being a B for traitor the richest man in the country their money came from beavers yeah and he was in on the business end of a Bernese yeah the big for a company

► 00:37:50

the buy that chunk of land

► 00:37:54

when was the Clark came out part of their mandate was to suss out potential for the trade and beaver hides

► 00:38:03

did they find some oil and gas right you don't know what can we justify this the oil and gas they're looking to just fight through the train be right now also there was also language about they might find out about whether woolly mammoth through existing out there as well so there's like some confusion about what was going on been to Saint Mary's he has some familiarity invented some areas of these large bones news puzzle the bottom he was wondering if this wasn't some if it may be in fact was not an extinct species but was somehow living in the American West still how hard is it to wrap his love to make a big deal out of it so weird but it wasn't by the Louisiana Purchase transaction because of the possibility of locating mam as I think it was like people see it and people such as me see it and perhaps over emphasized what

► 00:39:03

idea that was out there the beaver trade stuff was certainly a big factor I don't think I was reading about recently that you might think is interesting is it going into the unspoiled uncontacted landscape in the Peace by a historian to stop at the time Lewis and Clark had that one of the Great Plains were Native Americans living on the Great Plains who had been to Europe and met the king of France and returned back to the Great Plains what year

► 00:39:42

they went out in the early eighteen-hundreds so they're out in 1804

► 00:39:49

wow you got a few majan the time from the time in the 1500s when the Spanish right poking around

► 00:40:03

and, Coronado right coming up from Mexico into the Great Plains Cabeza de Vaca being Shipwrecked wrong to Gold Coast and people pushing up into these areas as hundreds of years prior like the distance that separates imagine the distance is separated Lewis and Clark from the first Europeans who were doing activities in and around the Great Plains is like the distance and time that separates us from Lewis and Clark

► 00:40:32

more so right it's the distance and time to separate us from the Declaration of Independence it was like a long history of that horses right right I got interesting decide cuz you always do like anytime you read about Mount many rising to find the part where the author talks about how much mountain men like beavertail and the first people that riding beavertails around Elgin Community College of the time and my brother is a member stuck a beaver tail in the oven for a while

► 00:41:17

and cook that neighbor part of back to me that like whatever it is they're talking about isn't that must be some other explanation we eat beaver tail Wisconsin pictures in an explanation on how to prepare how to actually prepare beavertail Mountain Man style in meat eater fish and game cookbook bad it was almost blend which is fat yeah so

► 00:41:46

after that we started thinking that when they say the mountain in like beavertail we thought most men don't like Trump bass like the hindquarters so be careful when Skynyrd's not get the Castor

► 00:42:00

beers at two large glands on the inside of their legs they're like talked in there it looks like if you lay a beaver on its back talks kind of on either side of its of it's like it was a male like talking to Savage penis or either side of the cloaca you'll see a not go a couple of vent you'll see these glands that are the size of I don't you make like you take your index finger and your thumb and make a circle is like a gland on each side call The Cash Store glanders oil gland are these use it for perfume is still has value today it's used for a wide variety things of smells beautiful if you're walking on a string bank and you smell like a strange perfume smell it's usually Beaver Castor smells great taste like shit taste like you eaten like you rub roses or something all over your food so start figuring out like to the skin would be very careful not to get the cast Runnin I forget the cast on your hands then we would just take the meat and put in crock pots

► 00:42:56

potatoes and onions and stuff and just cook them down in a crock pot so you can pick them it was like roast beef starting that but I still then later I realize it read other accounts of how people repaired beavertail and if you take the tail like the scaly a stale Beaver cuz it's twice as thick in the fall and spring her emaciated in the spring take the tail to ski word on a stick and put it next to a fire where the skin starts to bubble and boil

► 00:43:28

away I'm pretty sure you can just peel at skin away and was hiding under their is the best equivalent like the best equivalent

► 00:43:38

point of comparisons I can think of would be just it's like if you had a really like imagine you getting a grass-fed steak right but still has that fatty gristle on it it's just made up of that Gristle

► 00:43:52

like we're locking wood trim away from the stake and not eat that's what's inside that beaver tail but people eat these individuals that were doing this for fat starved eating such lean meat all the time I think they loved it because he was like a chunk of fat

► 00:44:09

and they had ready access to apps are catching them to make a living if you just eating the meat there's no fat on the meat until they would complement it with just eating the beaver tail fat

► 00:44:19

and how often tell people about and I even gave some to like there's like a Culinary Arts Institute and I gave some chefs that stuff and everyone the eats it points out there's not that it tastes so fantastic but she's like really interesting to try and eat it the fat from the tail

► 00:44:37

and it's like you got to put yourself in position you pry been in the store if you're no special you're out hunting and eating freeze-dried food or not eating great and you're just exerting yourself all day all the time how your what you want to eat changes a lot in the level of appetite you have is off the charts yet so just like to eat like a big slab of craving things absolutely needs that makes sense makes sense it may have been in particular you think about these people that are hiking across the last traveling massive amounts of distance and you know probably very physically strenuous dragon all the shit with him and they get up across some big ass piece of fat from a tail probably a huge tree we saw this idea of like special early Native Americans like their like just eating you're nothing but a man with me all the time understanding people grow as you see that, if they are utilizing

► 00:45:37

plant resources and probably had like pretty plant Rich diets but with the want one with the equestrian

► 00:45:45

bison Hunters on the Great Plains

► 00:45:48

those guys are like they weren't cultivating like at that are alike especially Aaron Lewis and Clark came in these people are not cultivating crops a lot of the people who have been farming long the Mississippi Missouri Valley's most horses is gave up on that shit and just started Roman landscape eating meat and the mountain men certainly weren't doing that they were just eating like you're eating meat 365 days out of the year and you see that they've really probably make up for a lot of nutrient deficiencies H suppose organs your guy in the morning gall gall gall bladder squeezing taking the golf putting squeezing the bile from gallbladder on your food

► 00:46:33

you did that once yeah it's horrific and you think they were doing just because they were just nutrient starved it seems like he's like just organ Meats Portland Oregon from mammary glands

► 00:46:51

really yeah cuz you can't just eat that lean ass gave me every day you were talking to a guy from Alaska what's that guy's name buck buck and he was talking about you know essentially he was subsistence hunting in certain stages and you know he ate nothing but Moose like he ate shot a moose and ain't nothing but that moves from months and picking Wolverine eat off the skulls and say hello human who's alive right now talking about only surviving on the leanest of lean meat skinny as fuck one that was all over his life that seem like he was a hundred years yeah could have occurred a hundred years earlier the episode of the podcast is like you're a good man Buck is it was called a cool dude vodka

► 00:47:51

I'm in the shower though he's a cool dude it's it's a treat to get a chance to talk to a guy that you think probably never even fucking heard of a podcast and certainly comes from a completely different era the reason he was living up had to live off the land is an interesting story where he was working for he was just getting in the guiding world so guiding moose hunters and they were wanting to find some ways to build a hunting very remote areas in the hidden us an idea that they would just bring horses in because you don't have Landing strips and stuff is really hard to operate out of his area so they thought what we can get horses in there

► 00:48:27

will have them in their want for the season them or ride the horses out but getting horses in there was so difficult and took far longer in the route they wanted to use was The Impossible by the time they got the horses in and they realize that they're never going to get these horses back out of here and they realize that someone needs to stay over winter to take care of the horses and he just volunteered to do it so he started spending they were going and hunt in September

► 00:48:55

and then he would just start hanging out and just stay there to agree to care for the horses

► 00:49:01

until spring

► 00:49:03

so that's how he found himself living out by himself and they'll bring some food in but if you never enough and you would be eating you know Wolverine Beaver moose whatever he come up with but he was just dumb

► 00:49:17

he was just

► 00:49:19

open to it didn't care you know it was really comfortable with Solitude when I spend time with him he's very gracious but when you spend time you see him

► 00:49:31

just engaged in conversation but you see kick in through talking to someone is very comfortable going months without human interaction right so him talking to people like okay that's enough what sort of drift off and vanished for good spell toots sure you Want Eazy money like entertaining you know who sells bowls like wooden bowls for a living it's one of the things that he does Bob have one of those balls I have one in my home how to convert you know birch bark for Burl bowls yeah I have a beautiful one

► 00:50:27

he sells me going to Tara shops I think it's a shame that they going to tire shops now I think he should be I should be all be direct consumer phone case dates of your meat meat eater folks he had a great many of the lost in a fire to a sad story makes his know takes those pearls and make bowls out of them just talking to a guy like that listen to you talk to a guy like that is so fascinating cuz he lives a life that I can barely comprehend just everything about and just to think that

► 00:51:07

what would he does is almost impossible to comprehend now think about Lewis and Clark making the way across the country and not really knowing what was out there not knowing like I'm guessing having some help people gave some reports this is what we saw here this what we saw they didn't even have a good account of all the different animals they had water lost through talking about like what people buy other people say they go he's real mountain man you know and often times when people hear that they imagine this like old hermit yeah you know who's like living in his cabin and being a mountain man but the mountain men were

► 00:51:48

they were for the time the most well-traveled people

► 00:51:52

right in the least xenophobic people alive the equivalent today to view mountain man today the equivalent would be I think you have to go to

► 00:52:04


► 00:52:07

and Ascend the Amazon in follow tributary after tributary and get into like the Borderlands around Venezuela

► 00:52:17

and then go in and despite the language barrier

► 00:52:23

you have to go in and travel amongst and live amongst

► 00:52:28

people who tribes who had not had a lot of outside contact but had a familiarity

► 00:52:37

had a familiarity with outside people's and you live there Foods either foods and live with them and take their ways they dress themselves and adopted as your own the kind of guy that would do that

► 00:52:52

is not the kind of guy were talking about nowadays and we talked about he's a real mountain man right we're talking about reality show people that's what that people talk about now but these people were like insatiably Curious explorers there's a really crazy warzones like decide to go backpack up in the Hindu Kush and Afghanistan you know just see what happens yeah very different kinds of people your episodes that you did what where where was that in with the the most recent Series where your bowfishing with these people down in Guyana on there for

► 00:53:41

I'll let you know long weeks couple weeks to get out on the river when you're around these people and they're all walking around Barefoot and they're making cassava which we talked about the other day that is easily kill you if you do it wrong. The water is all the cyanide in it like you're you're about as close as you can get to that kind of environment right situation like that you were very familiar with it but when the when the surface of rubber meets the road of daily existence just still really connected to life patterns and in skill sets that were the grandparents used in still fishing like a very similar ways right so

► 00:54:35

where you might have had when you were a boy leaving someone now is in their thirties when they were boy they probably use a 12 pound handmade wooden paddle and maybe now they have a different paddler maybe somehow they've come into you know oh oh plastic paddle say and they use that for the boat or they have a they still have a Dugout canoe but they also have an aluminum boat so does major differences but just the general sort of approach in the fact that you're driving all of your protein from the river and the you hunt and fish 250 300 days a year in the places where your ancestors of eyes done it you still you still getting this like really beautiful Glimpse at how people lived

► 00:55:22

even though they've had enormous changes in their own lifetime in a very much modern you know very modern but you still like Glimpse at more you don't I don't think you really get that as much

► 00:55:34

you don't get that as much here you know hunting is it is ancestral right there is that this kind of continuation that goes on but when Europeans came here when when Europeans came to the new world

► 00:55:49

they weren't coming in as Hunters

► 00:55:52

bite look like Daniel Boone's family dinner Bruins family came from England they didn't come here as Hunters because you couldn't like the present for you could not there they came here to learn hunting so hunting in America for euro-americans hunting in America is like an invention it's a thing that people kind of got to learn and took from the Indians so it doesn't have it doesn't have that like that deep deep thread the fine with indigenous communities where does discontinuation is going on for forever unbroken but on this continent unbroken for whatever 1516 whatever the fashionable number is thousands of years right and so is like our understandings is different cuz I like my ancestors came here in like got into it

► 00:56:45

it wasn't it wasn't a cultural continuation for them and look at like for food and Wild game and interesting thing is my my using understanding while game

► 00:56:58


► 00:57:00

really influenced by like contemporary food right like like restaurant food things that shaft to do like how do you take Wild game and duties at cool exciting modern Innovative kind of things with Wild game and cook it you'll talk to it like a dude even though dude like Buck or particularly people in you know people in South America who have hunted for more of like a subsistence literally subsistence purposes their whole attitude is different about it people like people in South America will eat

► 00:57:30

like the that your money or the micucci is it go eat the same thing everyday for lunch everyday

► 00:57:42

boiled fish with the dried pepper on it and then a grain made from cassava just Grill it they sometimes do but for lunch it's like you take leftover you might you probably like smoke or the barbecue Factory bake a big rack of a fire and make a big rack high above it kicks off a bunch of smoke you split fish salt in the Lamb on that rack and smoke them dry them out and you take that fish and break it apart and pour river water

► 00:58:16

over cassava and then put fish in there with river water kind of Stir It Up or you just take fish and throw it in a pot and boil it and put that on there but to eat that same thing everyday and you come and talk about this no recipe in preparation right by like wild game to make different recipes in all his ways to approach stop it just like it's it's very particular to us like other people aren't

► 00:58:48

really proceeding it that way I didn't use Wildgame and recipes they have like this like here's how you cook this

► 00:58:55

and we don't really deviate from cook it this way or it's like fish on a rack or two fire or fish in the pot of water

► 00:59:03

very limited diet

► 00:59:06

does it weird you out when you're around people like that because you have options right you can do you can eat anywhere you like you can go to restaurant to get a burger from fast food now and choose to go hunting with these people it's literally how they survive options and they been doing it that way forever I guess I do feel like a weird recreational sort of person around them like it is it does it feel strange that's a great question man

► 00:59:37


► 00:59:41

the definition of envious Part II how like to live that deliberately like I'm a little bit envious of it but really the thing that I feel most of that fuel more than separated by I tend to feel more of the areas in which I be like a lined you know where I can appreciate the perspective and I appreciate the skill set but never feeling

► 01:00:11

yeah never feeling like like Bachelor ashamed or something that did this would be something that I would like to choose to engage in and this is something they were gagement is how much they love to do it right when you go out like the Infectious the excitement of heading out in the morning the fact that they still feel it like there is is anybody about going out and doing a very excited to go and do it is not like going out to get your like to get you to check your mailbox my my youngest daughter is becoming a murder was fishing but I love it cuz I get to it whenever we go on trips I take her fishy fucking loves it man and we were in Florida we're going to get to go bass fishing I set it up so the guy was going to take us out I woke her up at 5 in the morning the hotel I'm carrying her she's stiff as a board she just woke up she's like

► 01:01:11

Daddy I'm tired can we just go back to bed now it's dark out 5 in the morning she just wants I'm so excited but you want to go to the great lake in in Florida Florida obviously a lot of great bass fishing there we got a ton of largemouth bass and she caught up fat boy is like a 6 pound of shoes to show never look a bit my finger she was so excited she fucking loves fishing but that feeling in the morning when I'm looking at her little face and like we're on the water like it's a genetic thing seems like it's just in the DNA the fishing is not like Hey we're going to go play soccer she likes to but does not that kind of excitement now they're selling is like it's triggering something that is it's deep inside human beings I see it and I see it in

► 01:02:09

I see it in varying degrees and in different people like some kids seem to come out of the box with more of it yeah you know my ten-year-old daughter doesn't she like that we can go fishing like she's gone fishing and caught Jeff that's okay we had a daughter my wife was adamant you know early on since you found out it was going to be a daughter like that you will not exclude her daughter in this world that you're in and I don't

► 01:02:48

having in my mind I don't think I messed up I feel like I put the same emphasis right on my three kids but my older to the little ones little too little yet really know what's going on but the old you act like I put the same emphasis on it

► 01:03:03

and my daughter just isn't demonstrating the same enthusiasm

► 01:03:08

they're older brother does and you and you try to suss out like the nature-nurture Russian I feel like I'm doing the same inputs bright from getting different results at least you to wonder

► 01:03:23

yes very small sample size when I talk to other parents like you know parents are parenting right now young kids I just keep in Conjuring other dads who are having the same experience and it really leaves you to wander sort of like what sort of like cultural influences are going on there

► 01:03:46

where it's like the enthusiasms often times among young girls are not as high as you do as long but it's hard. I don't like it don't age group in 8 year old and a 10 year old for the youngest kids the the eight-year-old fucking loves it they're both girls the 10 year olds like whatever if I try to wake her up to take her fishing should be like leave me alone back to sleep I'm sure their parents out there you know where they have like a boy and a girl in the girls are doing fired up the boys may be happy I guarantee there's Jamie and I were just talking about this yesterday cuz I was watching this video of these

► 01:04:40

there's I want to try to put this in a respectful way

► 01:04:47

I think there any I'm sure you're aware this there's people that are in the hunting World The Outdoor industry that I think are in it because it's a good Avenue to get attention if you like a hot chick you're a hot chick and yeah we're paying can you go out shoot things to take all these grip and grins with deer like this you going to get a lot of likes because the long did it take the male perspective on it and there's quite a few of them and it's I was telling Jamie it's a weird world because part of me. I don't want to be a sexist I don't want to look at these girls and I don't I don't look at it guy who hunts and who wants to be a part of the outdoor industry and go all this guy is just doing this because he thinks this is his Avenue for fame and success I think so here's a guy who really likes to hunt

► 01:05:46

and he realizes there's people like Steve rinella and John Dudley out there and he's famous Hunters man I want to be a famous Hunter how do I do it you know how do I go well I'm going to just start taking Instagram pictures and say a lot of the same shit that they say and sort of you know put myself into the cultural norm I don't think like that with girls cuz you're like you just want to have men like you not all of them a lot of them I take a super legit a lot of rest but there's unquestionably this added element in that world and it would be super generous and say it's only 10% of them but that 10% of my car smell what you're talking about

► 01:06:35

yeah it is kind of like a like a like a like that like a sex pot kind of country senior super Made Up full war paint fake eyelashes hot as fuck skin tight clothes out there shooting shit taking pictures yeah it's weird and then you go to the Instagram page and it's like there's pictures of that and then there's a lot of pictures with their butt up in the air with a doing some strange exercise like that's weird

► 01:07:12

cleaning out my daughter cuz I would really like her

► 01:07:19

she's in at 8 or she can legitimately say she doesn't want to go right cuz right now if I want to go to school you like you really like you make a couple weekends ago and we get out there before it's even legal light she's so terrible she's laying there crying for Baja colder feet are

► 01:07:48

if my boy was doing that I would have a very different attitude about it right then when she's crying crying cuz she's cold

► 01:08:00

like made me feel awful so you really there really is a difference is that there's a there's a difference there and it's not 90% males license holders is a woman but then there's more women than men in the explaining that we talked about earlier with neanderthals or maybe neanderthals didn't have these like divided roll but in all the hundred like in hunter-gatherer cultures is very normal to see a division of labor here and I have like the men were out hunting and women were not bunch of explanations for that like people are tied to being home to care for small children and no couldn't afford that

► 01:09:00

Risk by something very there there's some women that go out with the hunting parties you know if it is at you know the minute you say no some was going to point out to some right variation but in your experience you've done several these trips to these remote jungles such a small thing of experience just like from kind of exploring literature and reading about you know historic accounts and what people found what fuel do it is very much the norm is very much the norm that hunting was you know patrilineal descent activity all these cultures you go to you like The Cult of the hunter is like a male serve cold but the factors that made it that way okay that's sort of you you have to send it comes from some kind of practical Factor right the factors that made that way aren't there anymore

► 01:09:56

and I said the difficult thing to unpack it why is it being that if I have two boys and one girl for why is it being that both boys become hunters and fishermen and somehow my daughter does not I'll probably view it as some bit of a personal failure though I'll never know what really was going on I guess it is. It's hard like unload I wish I could have 100 children like 50 girls and 50 boys have a bigger samples

► 01:10:32

at our home in our kids to the point where they don't have any you could give them anything

► 01:10:43

to eat they would eat it and it would not register to them is unusual leaving everything right even eating like breakfast sausage made out of fox and beaver meat Fox everything wait a minute Fox a half I made a batch of breakfast sausages I had to Arctic fox one time I made breakfast sausage out of it what was that like I just called them with Beaver meat a little bit deer meat in a little bit of pork fat my kids 8 and it has any the Fox on its own then try the Box on the phone what's rattle possessed you to stuff that fox into that sausage I heard they were good and I had an arctic fox and I wanted to get a thing made of my wife from it

► 01:11:30

so I had a hat to Arctic fox hat made for and I retain the meat and then we just ate the meat breakfast sausage and I told him if you don't like what meat is no justice in this it wouldn't freak him out it wouldn't wouldn't even know I wouldn't even register as like a thing that might seem unusual to some people right so they eat squirrel rabbit all manner stuff right anything that's why I know there's no element of does not influence like that with them there they were hunting there day we went out and we were hunting Street pigeon pigeon meet a guy at a grain silo it was like an Festival pigeons folks don't know that many people listening to this that pigeons are actually brought over here as food and when you get like fancy squab on the menu

► 01:12:30

that's what a pigeon is now flightless pigeon pigeon hasn't flown yet that's what is squab is so smaller and younger. Catch squabs where we are love we had like a little almost like the equivalent of a little trap line where they would your nest in various places around town and we just know all the places to go check to get squabs

► 01:12:57

and yes one that hasn't flown yet so but being people that commercially produce Squad you can just keep them from flying but if you want Squad from the wild you need to go out and you just go and collect them what's the difference between pigeon and squab in terms of the way it tastes pigeon meat is tougher grayer

► 01:13:16

has more liver equality and squab is like very tender pinkish like it's like lean it's not like Quail but it's leaning way more in the direction

► 01:13:30

of quail like is blank of a pigeon and a quail

► 01:13:35

had a baby

► 01:13:37

squabs more like that it's it's one of the biggest surprises I had in without that was one of the biggest surprises that I've ever had in game what if we can count that as well game would be what a squab taste like cuz I had been me I had for a long time even Street Pigeon Street pictures of there around Missouri breaks yet Street binge The Nest up in the in the cliffs and you know there's many places you can Hunt Street pigeons maybe come up cultural past and they're not regulated so there's no closed season no bag limit the treated like that they have no more they're regular like rats if if you could talk a wildlife managers and ask him if they could wave a magic wand and make Street pigeons go away most everybody would waive it because they're so costly the coffee the cities for Casa to agriculture side always eating pigeons but the minute of discovering like discovering like what a squab is like which is well known to people

► 01:14:37

you know fine dining but I had never had it it was shocking how good it is that's interesting I've never picked it off the menu but now I'm tempted to do it but Street Pigeon avoid that just a test it's okay but it's not something that you would go this one of my favorite things to eat no is there a way to do it where you can really like as a preparation maybe that you've missed it's not bad to to put it in a marinade and you can Grill it what you want to take little brass and you poke it whole bunch like poke it with a fork and tenderize a little bit and also makes him like Avenues of approach for the marinade and no Grill them over very hot flame

► 01:15:26

but what was good as like to use like similar to like stuff with Ptarmigan whatever is easy to make Pates and terrines as well what's that show called Life Below Zero so the lady who lives she's been on the show before she lives like fucking what she live like 200 miles above the Arctic Circle something crazy like that

► 01:15:51

and she hunts Ptarmigan gym up there the best time I've ever eaten this is weed weed this is in in our new cookbook to but it does I mention using Ptarmigan for up images of a dish that's great for regular like any kind of mean particular game birds that you have that you had a hot pot you like we were you have the you know you had like the simmering bra off and you have all these raw like raw sliced meats you dip in there

► 01:16:20

the best time I've ever had it's like that it's the pits otherworldly you know it's just like when you slice it thin and kind of van is on your tongue is a very very tender meat you know it's kind of mash it up people like a thing you hear a lot of game birds people describe Ptarmigan Treat Street Pigeon lot of game birds people described as Livery diving ducks being Livery cuz it's like the texture thing to it and then the strength of flavor in the darkness of color in those people make a lot of Pates a live right so those birds that have that quality often times they just say they can't find their way into Pates so we also have recipes for that

► 01:17:02

I got how to do patties from using all all manner of me do you have any recipes in the book for brown bear no but we have beer recipes is there a difference you know brown black bears are among people who know black bears are widely accepted as being good to eat if you go into if you go to the early I meant Daniel Boone so do you go into that like the the frontier era of American History by which proceeded to these little lingo terms the Frontier Air of American History preceded the Mountain Man are of America history of like that the Eastern settlements right if you really like about Daniel Boone's area early 1700 up into open the Revolutionary War

► 01:17:51

Barry was the most popular meat on the frontier black bears

► 01:17:56

the most popular is in preferred to sell deer hides at the deer meat people had a very sad that that's what they like to eat more beef uncooked right people love bear meat brown bears grizzly bears just don't enjoy the same reputation different diets 0ne with brown liquid we use it

► 01:18:24

we need to turn brown like brown bear is kind of almost like a like a

► 01:18:29

it is using my mom's Hunters a lot but it is all it's all one species salty but you got a grizzly bear and Wyoming or brown bear on Kodiak asthma attacks and I know he was regarded as a as a single species people call brown bear brown bear is a Grizzly you'll get all kinds of people writing you to say that about various points of the debating various aspects of this a brown bear is a Grizzly with access to Marine Resources were Marine Resources make up a major component of its diet and then the question you bring up as in like to go to the North Slope so if you go to the Artic coast and you saw a Grizzly there if he has access to Marine Resources he can eat a beached whale whatever but he's a Grizzly so like brown bears kind of extend right home in northern BC up around and in in Hook around into the Bering Sea but at some point they're just not brown bears in one there but they tend to be

► 01:19:29

then and often times because of the name like the 10 to have like a darker coloration they have a horrible reputation is food You'll Always Find people who will point it out right or nowadays people are so we're like in the social media world nowadays you have to go to kill a brown bear and here you are you got for 500 pounds of meat and they'll talk about how they're going to eat it but like dude you're in for a pound a day to Spirit Hill Salvage requirement on it don't you have to in Alaska to chapter packet out

► 01:20:11

Depends for some areas that have zero some areas you know typically

► 01:20:17

typically know there are areas that you have Salvage requirements where I have a cabin is a salvage requirement on bear meat in the spring to sprint in areas where Bears that's a black or brown belt that there is Island by Island so somehow I don't think you'll like the ABC islands but I like to go to Admiralty Island Admiralty Island this is all brown bears so then why is it being if the island is good brown bear habitat it will only have brown bears

► 01:20:47

because I'm the islands for its smaller

► 01:20:51

did they kill all the black bears are there in black bears aren't there if the island is not brown bear habitat and can't support Brown Brazil become a black bear Island principles of black bear Island admiralty Zac Brown Band Island depends on how much seems maybe depends on how much like open country or Alpine or you know if it's like densely densely forested it's less suitable and becomes a black bear territory black bears in the spring have a salvage requirement because if you're talking about Coastal Bears Coastal bears are better to eat in the spring we're not even telling the rotten salmon in the fall there wouldn't be a salvage requirement because when they're eating dead salmon

► 01:21:35

there flash can become not good I remember you telling me story about using the guy smoker he told the guy man you need to clean that smoker out smells like fish two fish in there it's you you're smoking a bear in it and that was that was the early June in early June Blackberry was not getting salmon but it says that's stores up that that flavor stores on their fat I watch even wolves eating salmon that were so rotten that they're like laughing it up

► 01:22:05

we're just turns into a grey bush in the Bears in people's idea of a bear is eating a brand new fresh fish for sale of the do and they seem to prefer it like when there's tons of fresh fish and they're just getting fresh fish Dallas TX right but that's the fish run dies down be to start eating rotten fish

► 01:22:24

camera hog Atacama quality food oh you struggle is entire life and just hasn't found a way to make brown bears that good there are exceptions people run into good taste and one's the one I was talking about like Grizzlies up on the North Slope and very good reputation any black bear in the Rockies

► 01:22:56

any black bears good

► 01:22:58

I may have heard stories I had a buddy to kill one over a dead cow one time killing it was Scavenging a ride and Kyle and he had a hard time with the meat for generally

► 01:23:10

bears that aren't eaten Marine Resources are pretty are phenomenally good

► 01:23:16

I talked to my friend Eric Weinstein yesterday he's a mathematician one of the smartest guys I know and he is been fascinated by my obsession with hunting and so he started watching a bunch of Huntington's online he said he was very put off Shop people killing bears with Spears yeah and celebrating and the way they were celebrating my stuff he's like the found the thing the whole thing right you know and I saw his point and we had this discussion about it where

► 01:23:46

you know acknowledging the need to control the population and that this is all that their allocated certain amount of tags by wildlife biologist and this keeps the moose population healthy and the deer population of all these different things and even that people eat them all those things made sense to him but the celebration and the other all the Hooten and hollerin and stuff it's like there was just not enough of a reference for the dead and it really really disturb them

► 01:24:22

it's hard to approach cuz they're so you you find somebody contradictions and in weird parts of it and by that I mean this

► 01:24:30

I was having a conversation and I was a gentleman over dinner we're talking about

► 01:24:34

use explain to me like what is the role of a Rancher and what is the role of farmer here's a person's bringing animals into life propagating breeding animals with sole intention

► 01:24:47

the day we'll all die

► 01:24:49

and he will make his living off of their death

► 01:24:53

but that person

► 01:24:57

remains a sore cultural icon they enjoy like a celebration you know when you're trying to sell sell a pickup truck

► 01:25:07

right if you can tie it to a Rancher it makes that pickup truck seem more legitimate celebrated character old cowboy I would like that let me get where I'm going with this but what is that like that person

► 01:25:25

is based off of like seeing animals in order that they made died and he profits from their death

► 01:25:35

and remain celebrated and then you get into the idea of what when it comes to American wildlife where we have a population of wildlife many respects we have it enjoy the management that we do in the abundance that we do in many ways that abundance is supported bolstered financed by hunters but

► 01:26:00

Hunters tend to not enjoy that same

► 01:26:04

cultural support the cause of the death

► 01:26:08

right well so because of media depictions sure I think that's the big part of it more they even saw them the death if our it's all of our depictions about hunting were tied into this for the rational discourse and they showed all the images from your show of animals being shot and and carefully butchered in the field and then prepared and cooked and enjoyed I think you would have a way different perception but we know we have Elmer Fudd and we have the evil hunters in the movies that are always trying to torture the animals when it's it's Disney and anthropomorphisation of these animals in all these different films and media depictions and books that shit in then teddy bears always seems like stained into people's brains of what's good and what's bad you know very few kids up stuffed cows that their pets Galore that there are toys they of teddy bears and maybe Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer you know what to shoot Rudolph know it seems like it seems

► 01:27:08

did it gets much worse and more contentious the less

► 01:27:13

the pop if you married two populations looking at something they they recognizes game

► 01:27:19

they feel different bright things that they don't recognize his game that they don't readily recognizes game to see that death is more important to them even if it is being treated as game like Brian you don't like you don't see social media explosions come up around someone with a turkey right you don't see a lot of social media explosions come up with someone around a whitetail deer people look at that they see this animal that they perceived to be very abundant in the case of white tails and turkeys are correct very abundant they're familiar with them they're familiar with the idea of these things being hunted and it feels different things that where there's a perceived scarcity okay

► 01:28:02

and they don't immediately recognize it as a food item

► 01:28:07

it's hard for them extremely in this is way outside of my personal area of expertise but like what goes on in Africa over people to see animals in Africa that have been hunted and they recognize them only from like

► 01:28:22

film depictions cartoon depictions mobiles over their child's crib like like a hippopotamus is very like you can't look at that it's hard to see that as like the Harvest of game to become something very different and it's we've watched it happen with bears you know also a thing that will happen is if you initiate the hunting of something that wasn't hunted before that's very difficult for people so you take a state where like New Jersey or Florida where they for a long time you know what historically they would have a bear season they would lose the bears eat that the Pharisees would go away because of a of a resource scarcity then later they would recover the resource and want to reinitiate the hunt

► 01:29:10

people have a very difficult time with that being like if it wasn't hunted before how can it be hunted now right and that rips people up really bad where they kidnap people have it hard to get on board with the LG watch what's going on with grizzly bears in around what has been unfortunately name the greater Yellowstone ecosystem where you start to have this cultural custody battle around who owns this Indiana size Tonka Lance around Yellowstone where the big because of naming people sort of think of it as as Yellowstone when it certainly is not a large area surrounding it but there we had a period where we weren't know why we stopped really on his animals are being overharvested habitat destruction and then you go through an enormous amount of work to recover species and people are extremely resistant to the idea that you would start hunting now that you would now start hunting something you weren't hunting a few days ago Brian that's like but it's also what you were saying earlier that's not recognized as a game species

► 01:30:10

can you eat like mountain lions like even if mountain lions are a nuisance like there was a woman that had she had a depredation permit because mountain lions have killed like 10 alpacas in a goat in a farm in Malibu and she decided not to act on the permit because there was so many different people that were threatening her with so many Wildlife activist that were threatening her and just general people online death threats because she date you know she's going to hire someone to shoot this mountain lion that have been I mean it just went out Thrill Kill and got into one of her parents just went ham and but people they think of that thing is somehow another better than out her alpacas is very weird people just recently protested the killing of tiger of a tiger in India that killed 13 people I saw that I put that online and people in the comments where we're like fuck those people argue like the okay you're out of your mind what if that was your sister

► 01:31:10

what is your your daughter lose your mom what is your brother your brother watch watch your brother getting dragged Away by a giant monster you know it's just because it's called a tiger you're cool with that like fuck fuck your brother this was interesting year I don't mean that

► 01:31:30

flounder fish with I I don't want to sound callous when I called interesting but Washington state had its first mountain lion

► 01:31:38

Bob mortality like we're mountain lion kill the unit for the first time I was 94 years in Oregon is went and with the one in Washington killed a person they tracked lying down and kill the line and the state fish and game department. You know predictably like a bunch of blow back for having killed and I was talking to someone who's involved with that and I was saying I think that the blowback would have been a lot worse had you not done it yeah you know but you don't eat you don't hear from those people if they didn't kill the line the line is just out there roaming around I think people just ignore it cuz the new cycle so fucking quick I think they would lose it would get lost in Trump and say something stupid about North Korea or whatever and people forget I can you know I continue to

► 01:32:31

yeah I continued on black bears II black bears it's like you know in the case of mountain lions have rapidly expanding mountain lion populations is a lot of mountain lions mountain lions re-colonizing new territories all-time there managed you know most States manage them very tightly with mortality quotas female mortality quotas Open Season close these and permit drawers right there man is a game animal there their they're hunted and there's some allowable use of the renewable resource and at the same time that's going on we're enjoying expanding population of mountain lions I personally welcome the return of mountain lions to any suitable habitats or there's enough space for them to live without causing you know undo friction by them boarding up against human interest and I encourage people who are in areas that are being caught we colonize by mountain lion

► 01:33:31

to no practice some level of Tolerance and use best best use practices or best case practices around to like avoid conflict right same thing with bears like I welcome the return of bears I think there's a lot of areas in this country a lot but there's a handful of areas in this country that could have sustainable populations of grizzly bears that's like suitable habitats that is not being used by grizzly bears and couldn't should be used by grizzly bears at the same time I like to see when it's appropriate I like to see state-managed while they practices and then allowable Harvest of animals did a lot of people listen to this thing don't even understand that mountain lions are edible in in fact you say delicious I like I was eating out lines on forever Hunter Mountain 501 mountain lion in my life and I've eaten lunch or nap

► 01:34:24

so I had never had the question about it and I've never had to question about whether it was good or not listen to this right now probably like what do you lines is widely known as a very good meat but I was introduced to it that what I want there's there's a place but when I was living in Missoula Montana is a place 20 miles east they're called Rock Creek Lodge and they're famous for having this big thing I'll call the testicle Festival in the fall where you know if you castrate steers know people will fry up the nuts right into the testicle Festival as big as kind of turned like this big head turned into the sky like biker Festival but it was just this big party in the Senate rounding deep fried cow balls and we should go down there all the time and go drinking one time I was at that same place in the spring and this guy had a pot of gold look like pulled pork you know but with barbecue sauce and had a bunch of buns out and you just giving it away and I was eating it and he was 10

► 01:35:24

how is mountain lion meat and you were saying you all is he sound like balls and does the first time I had mountain lion and then later I had a girlfriend is from Wyoming and she one day is standing behind a Guyana

► 01:35:40

standing behind a guy in a hardware store was buying a mountain lion tag and she asked him what do you do with all that meat and he didn't want it so she gave him her phone number and it when he got his line he gave us the whole damn thing and so we ate that whole Mountain line then had that I came into other mountain lion eating other ways and always enjoyed it to the point where I wasn't eating it cuz I had a moral obligation to eat what I killed I was going out of my way to get it

► 01:36:08

because I'd rather eat someone else's mountain lion and buy pork is like pork is that similar to white meat man wow you can take the back straps with fat on it you can leave the fat on it and take that back strap and see you got to cook still have those probably going to have trichinosis so you got to cook stew 160 Just Like Old just how pork used to be cook it secret fats good meats good we took it down make all kinds of preparation to the Cook down my kids meet you they keep they'd bunch of wild they would eat a bunch of mountain lion meat

► 01:36:41

well cooked if that's one of those things that were not accustomed to but we're we're fine with things we are accustomed to you shut a mountain lion dead on social media I know I can't wait to eat this

► 01:36:57

people would go fucking crazy that recent controversy with that woman shot a goat invasive species on an island off of Scotland to an animal they have to hunt they literally have to hunt them if they don't if you never seen what a goat can do to an environment they just destroy everything they eat everything they can they do they cause erosion they they did decimate all the local foliage but they weren't seeing that and I think that they were like the people that were upset about that we really like struggling to describe why it upset him even a politician a pointed out that the person was wearing camouflage when you have a different clothes and there was no secret that there is hunting going on out there right no secret at all it was it it's an American

► 01:37:41

bad she's wearing camouflage she's adorned you know like like makeup and it's kind of like a like it was beautiful image set up she had a high-powered rifle which there are two using out there anyways and it's just a confusing idea in a confusing image for people had it been some old Scottish dude with his with his you know deerstalker outfit on but there's something where people are like why her and why here and it also her description of it as a fun hunt mean people had a lot of problems with it but it's also I think because

► 01:38:20

it's there wasn't anything else going on she caught a cycle you know she's she's got you know she was headed down the river and a tributary opened up and she went right into controversy bank that's what I think happened in the people that were tweeting about I saw Greg Glenn Greenwald tweet about it I'm like you're a journalist like you're an actual journalist the respective journalist you should really do some research on this because you the way you're calling it I don't know I mean Glenn Greenwald is I believe you some sort of an animal rights activist I don't know if he's a vegan I don't know if he's a vegetarian but I know Ricky gervase isn't he's not a vegetarian he's not no gas that's the weird part right that's funny man that I didn't know that I didn't know about it we were talking about hunting and you know I brought it up cuz we're on the radio show together on the Opie and Anthony show and I said I shot bears and I eat them

► 01:39:20

and I like to eat everything I kill and I hunt for food and I prefer to get meat that way and we discussed the fact that he eats meat

► 01:39:30

huh yeah it was it's a weird one cuz there's a virtue signaling aspect of shiting on Hunter's where you're always going to get some positive remarks about it it's it's difficult for me it's not difficult for me for from someone who doesn't who doesn't eat me right I don't have a problem have a problem with it like I'm like you know my brother said about so I don't know he said maybe they have a point put the chicken damn Hunters who are horny like a regulated resource

► 01:40:14

If you're sort of acting like when you condemn you start acting like all I care about these issues and I want to be out here and I want to be like articulating in perspective and and I know what's going on but then so you like putting yourself out of the person who has opinions of value I just have just let your opinion me know so if you're going to have that where is the self-examination exactly where you are if you're eating meat like you're contributing all kinds of animal death like what is your understanding of what is your understanding of of those lies and those deaths how is that not part of your Reckoning if I do let's say I am happy

► 01:40:53

that I got a bear but I will eat with my family what's the I am happy about it is it better for you that you're kind of is it better to be sad about it somehow is it better to be regretful or just ignore the fact all together why is it not okay that I'm happy about what I eat

► 01:41:11

I know the story of it really well like I understand the history of wildlife in this country I don't want to say better than anybody but damn sure better than most I know where we've been I have a good sense of where we're going in terms of American wildlife what the challenges are for American wildlife right I'm involved in the stuff on a daily basis I can know all that and I can see my place in it

► 01:41:36

right I can see what my actions are and whether my actions are helpful or hurtful for something that I care a great deal about and if I can know that

► 01:41:47

well and get a deer a bear or whatever and have it be food and find that I'm like really happy to be involved in that was that somehow is off-putting to people but it's okay to be that I'm blind to it I have this nagging sense of guilt about it that I haven't reckoned with I don't really know about it you know and it's like that that's like an acceptable position for some people to have it's really hard for me with people that are that that are contributing the animal death who who want to condemn those who are more willing to for whatever reason willing to excited about taking part in the process themselves

► 01:42:26

I got to find a way to die I got to find a way to to to engage with it though and I need to get a better understanding of it because of the debate isn't going away I can't keep brushing it off it's so ridiculous that it doesn't warrant my time because clearly it does warm my time to understand that perspective I just haven't had anybody really give to me the good way they were raised to be eaten

► 01:42:48

that's a foolish perspective that's dead to me is way way worse so life condemned Glenn Greenwald is a vegan race body cuz I assume that he's articulate about it I don't think his position is nuanced I don't I don't I think there's some willful ignorance that's a part of people that eat meat but condemn hunting will fall in the fact that like I said they know that they're going to get a certain reaction out of people when they tweet about it on social media one thing if you're talking about someone who's out there shooting things and not eating it okay I get it I'm with you say if some guys shooting and Alpha cuz he wants his tusks I'm on your side I get it but if if someone chooses to hunt you know and an animal fill in the blank that might be a goat might be weird to you but they're eating this thing but they're shooting this it's an invasive species it's actually very delicious it's very edible prized for its meat by

► 01:43:47

communities you don't make any sense you know doing this because you know that other people are ignorant about as well and either you're ignorant because you've never bothered to look into it or you bothered to look into it you're ignoring a new one in the case of the goat thing is is a lad think there's an added element that our government on the federal level is involved is a lot of state wildlife management agencies are involved in trying to do wild goat eradication projects on Islands yes this is something that's on going all the time in Hawaii and many other places where we're like a helicopter gunning helicopter gunning

► 01:44:28

four invasive species explain to people how those goats got there in the first race is also very weird right away is a lot of things were a lot of Island species this is one way it happens work invasive on Islands would be introduced by seafarers Wailers who would want to stab which food resources along transoceanic routes so you can put something there and come back and get it later early way it like Lakeway there's a used to come out of the the the American Northeast dolls famous whaling villages in in New England know they would go down and stop in and I'll stop in in the Galapagos whatever gather up tortoises they can flip over in the hole of a boat in the tortoise stay alive for month on its back you. Like a fresh meat resource in as people came to understand scurvy and realizing the fresh meat

► 01:45:28

gives you enough vitamin C to avoid scurvy that you can get from dried me cuz you know the way the vitamin C behaves through the cooking and drying process like fresh meat you can keep from having scurvy me became even more important then but people to come in and you'd like cut some sheep Lewis cut some bolts loose on an island and know that they're going to breed and build up a big population in that can be like a place you stop in and get food and other things get interviews not always of course animals move you know so you have one Island it says close proximity to another Island they can swim across that bump over and it destroys native vegetation they trample birds nests and so you have many cases where introductions of non-natives do not need of grazing animals not have predators will wind up causing like a lot of extinctions of endemic species on islands and krates all kinds of problems and that's exactly were talking about with this go in that picture so this is an animal that must be

► 01:46:28

if you want healthy Wildlife on that I own the native wildlife in the native fauna the Flora all this stuff that lives there all the stuff that supposed to be there you got to kill goats otherwise delete everything but I think people look people look in the Attic that they they did look in that I don't buy that that was the motivation of that person what I care about is motivations of individuals I think you're right because when California got rid of mountain lion hunting they're still killing several hundred mountain lions here a year people are comfortable with like the total lion kill didn't change much people are comfortable with estate agent or someone being paid

► 01:47:10

to go out and kill one they're not comfortable with someone pain who wants to go do it I don't think they realize I don't think they realize that state agencies are killing as many mountain lions in California as they are I don't think people understand that I think people do understand if something gets put on the ballot you know would you like to reintroduce mountain lion hunting people go crazy like why would you do that mountain lions are beautiful there exciting I want to see that but these are people in Santa Monica you know I'm saying. People that are living you know an hour outside of Bakersfield they got 16 mountain lions in their backyard in a year. This is a different kind of world you know if there's in the attached be mountains out there and they seem outlines all the time they have a lot of Mount want to release you from

► 01:47:59

there's a problem I think a lot of you have a very hard time empathizing with people who might be negatively impacted by Wildlife is well in the in the question of the lying issue where it's kinda like this idea like well you better suck it up so if you're a rancher in your running cattle in the area where you're losing a lot of cattle the wolves and people will look and be like you better suck it up buddy but I can't really picture your problem but your complaints are not legitimate way to cut a December to cut a Grizzly lose and Golden Gate State Park

► 01:48:40

right I don't know I think that people would have would come to have a different perspective

► 01:48:48

on that put it mildly yeah but it why is it being that you looking in people are they don't really want to hear about other people's problems if it doesn't if it doesn't jive with their understanding of what problems are very aware that the issue round grizzly bears and in the delisting so that they were temporarily because they had met all recovery goals so when we like once recovered population look like they mapped out what would look like and we've exceeded that for many years now and they were delisted but then Wyoming and Idaho move to have a very limited hunt on them and then they were a federal judge blocks that the listing they went back in the listing was the federal judges motivation

► 01:49:36

well you want to hope that that they didn't have one you wanted you want to think that they are just looking at you know the details of it but I think there's a suspicion that that person went into that Knowing damn sure what they were going to do you know you don't really know these arguments they come down to like technicalities right no one's arguing the populations are covered but there's also the argument that the judge is probably trying to protect his own reputation because the amount of blowback that the judge receive for allowing a hunt to go through is vastly different than blocking the hunt hunt you're not going to get that much blowback you get a few people that are upset but it had been established resource know you taking something away from people but if he allowed it for the Wildlife people go fucking bananas on the sky like an environmentalist people who sue to block

► 01:50:36

daddy listing of recovered species masquerade is you know ecologically conscious environmentalist but they're just people who is it's untenable to them they can't that they're never going to accept the idea that that you're going to have human exploitation of this resource right they masquerade is there they have an environmental motivation was not it's like it's an animal rights motivation

► 01:51:02

there's a very there's a date to have a sensitive ear in a certain federal court you know I'm Missoula and so you'll see a lot of these cases around wolves and Grizzlies they get that don't want it done to that courts in there bragging have a friendly take on it I think it's a real is the watch that happened that's been having recently was a real a real travesty because there's a couple things that happen like culturally in areas where you'll you create a lot of tension with people what is people that are are living amongst these things no looking for some level of some level of relief and they want to see it go to State Management and they might want to see the state exercise some control over where certain populations of large predators are spreading into and when it whines up being the dirt like their voices are not heard you know and they feel that people from far away are really heavily influencing decisions that affect them on a daily basis

► 01:52:02

creating like a lot of animosity towards the species to wear with the spotted owl write the spotted owl no one can see it on perceive the spotted owl as a owl anymore in the spotted owls become like a symbol of federal overreach and you'll find it like wolves for Wiley become a symbol of a dispute and people stop liking liking the animals and it becomes like this like contentious creature and I think that we're going to head that way if we keep if if we keep stepping in on Wildlife issues with the mentality that we've been approaching the wolf and grizzly issue in the Northern Great Lakes the northern Rockies soon-to-be the greater Yellowstone ecosystem now I think you're dealing with local and then you're dealing with national right so the local people going to have an issue with it because they're going to be impacted by it's going to be directly impact in their life dogs going to be killed while you know they're going to

► 01:52:58

take domestic cattle and all sorts of different things you can have real issues with the people that like to go elk hunting the populations of diminishing rapidly but the rest of the country doesn't give a shit ton of people in San Francisco they don't give a fuck about it people in Chicago aren't impacted by it and if it especially if they don't have anyone in their family that hunts or anyone that has a background in hunting and they don't have a background to themselves they don't care and it's not all the time

► 01:53:29

that I care about the availability and bunt in abundance of deer elk moose Caribou like I care about the resources a lot of people rely on the resource use the resource their major economic drivers I'm definitely on anything but I'm a guard myself as a pro wolf person myself as a pro Grizzly person I cherish every interaction I have with those animals resource

► 01:53:59

I don't have a problem calling people. Yeah I'm like Pro I like in suitable habitats I like to see them present I also like to see that that I also like to see them manage in a way that allows for abundant Wild game resources

► 01:54:17

what's going on house passes Bill to drop legal protections for gray wolves

► 01:54:24

Century sings two hours ago well roll down a little bit

► 01:54:32

republican-controlled house passed a bill on Friday to drop legal protections are gray wolves across the lower 48 states reopening a lengthy battle over the predator species long despised by Farmers & ranchers wolves were shot trap poison out of existence most of you ask the mid-twentieth century by the mid-twentieth century since security protection the 1970s wolves have bounced back when it's not really exactly happened Great Lakes of Michigan Minnesota and Wisconsin is well in the northern Rockies in Pacific Northwest that's sort of but they're not talking about the reintroduction the reintroduction is the big issue right well and that's what people have great issue with his doctors only one area do the Great Lakes the Northern Great Lakes that was not Arena dachshund There Was You know the size of a population in the northern northern Continental Divide ecosystem not a reduction

► 01:55:32

that if you would have done that you would have had had you not done that reintroduction you two had a natural flow anyway and natural flow from Canada eventually you would have eventually have gotten there anyway interested but would have got to the exact same levels know I'd be there now but but but people you would have did without the rain adoption you would have do natural movement have eventually gotten you know do you think that that's the thing that supports the idea of the reintroduction you think. Introduction was well-thought-out

► 01:56:13

I don't want to know I'm not going to debate the merits the reduction like I said my perspective on it it should be in a place where it supports my perspective on it is the idea of Extinction and Regional extirpation sickens me I do not believe in I do not believe that like as a people as a culture we can justify or afford to remove species of Wildlife

► 01:56:43

from the landscape native species of all there from the landscape is like I said the idea sickens me I'd like to you know I like to have all Native Wildlife present on the landscape so

► 01:57:00

I don't oppose it what I oppose is a thing that's happened now is getting what we have populations that we agree like what will recovery look like at what point was and how we manage all the different viewpoints that are coming in all the different like interests of all these various stakeholders and at what point will we get in there and manipulate the situation that we're creating I just would move at a different direction where I think that they recovered species right into skateboards on the walls and Grizzlies I think that you should have that if you can do it in a sustainable way it doesn't have long-term deleterious impacts on the population they should be managed as a renewable resource

► 01:57:44

see this is where people going to have issues at your just even the term manage them as a renewable resource you mean shoot them and kill them and use their fur

► 01:57:56

sure I think that I think that recovered species that and I think that if you put something on The Endangered Species Act and it goes under Federal Protection and then when it reaches recovery and the US fish and wildlife service says it's recovered it's time to hand it back to State Management if a state then decides they're going to do some limited Harvest but you're a little bit liseter even if they're focusing on areas where there's like a very high prevalence of human animal conflict in the state decides to do that and some like my Norway

► 01:58:26

as way to service the needs of certain segments of their population that want something to happen I don't think that then some at like an active is Judge or or environmental groups are animal rights groups to come and be like well nevermind we're going to pretend that they're not recovered now because we want to prevent the state from doing something that we think is unsavory well the thought process behind the people that support blocking the Hunt is that if you leave these animals alone naturally they're going to find balance and that the Bulls will kill the Alcan till there's not enough Alcor them to sustain their populations in the numbers of their offspring will dwindle and they'll get to a some sort of a sustainable level environment now the idea that things are going to we would just let things run their course and Watch What Happens isn't going to happen you're still going to have a lot of Grey

► 01:59:26

is every year are still going to get in trouble they're still going to get killed you still going to have mortality have tons of grizzly mortality and tough areas but I also don't have a problem with an actually support as a hunter that we would

► 01:59:54

oatmeal while allowing wolves be present on the landscape that we would mitigate their impact on big game I don't mind saying I don't mind just coming out and saying that I like to have high populations of big game animals that are available to Hunters and also at the same time sharing some of that resource they're having boils on the ground doing it don't want to see them not and I will not answer Grizzly this is one of those were it's it's because of wolf is so much like a dog and because there's not a great history of people eating remember you tell me about one mountain members favorite food was Warfield Dahmer steffensen the Arctic Explorer crazy fucker that guy must have

► 02:00:39

you're tried it no leaving coyote species

► 02:00:51

I want Kyle yeah didn't my betta didn't like it have a mess of $0.01

► 02:01:00

yeah you said that was similar to diver duck to write but I was Remy Remy felt that taste like bad diver duck diver Ducks but no I haven't I haven't I haven't done that anymore haven't included any Kyle recipes and there's no Kyle recipes in the wild game cookbook either wolf might be the ultimate won the people going to have a problem with it's a very that might be where the the rubber hits the road

► 02:01:26

in some places become a moot point because Idaho Wyoming Montana all have State Management of wolves all of the things that were all these horrible things that we're going to happen when the states resume management of wolves didn't materialize but those places also have a rich history of hunting yeah but it was going to be the end of it hasn't been in the first few years in the first few years the wall Seasons you actually saw the populations go up so hard to hunt them right well they being mean that with that little bit of hunting pressure on them really changed

► 02:02:07

they're really change their movements and change the way they perceive humans rats in the exhaust to a pretty quickly but it hasn't led to you know I think a lot of people who look in those cases where is pretty effective and it was very effective to bring in to bring in limited regulated hunting had the desired effect on how wolves are using the landscape and in ways in which they were interacting in avoiding human like the situational probably in the Northern Great Lakes they they had State Management law state management like the bounces back and forth you going to you going to eventually any kind of depends on how the political winds blow for your adventure going to wind up with it there and you're not going to see wolves vanished in the landscape

► 02:02:52

you know you does not have grizzly bears wind up doing it you're still going to see you're going to see gradually expanding populations of grizzly bears to fight this fight the fact that they're using limited Harvest to achieve certain management objectives is not going to be in the world but just not yeah I agree with you and I think the grizzly bear thing you probably have the same sort of a situation where the Grizzlies eventually think of people as a threat and it'll probably be safer for everybody that's one thing that people that that's one thing that people often to give people a lot of people looking from the outside-in aren't very sensitive to it to the idea of the way that which did you know that this is impacted professional hunting guides Hunters but these are my people these people that I care about and I care about their needs right so but we see it in BC where they've just taking it away and they take it as it taking it away in a very irrational way because they they have a large population of grizzly sin PC very large and four people

► 02:03:51

live up there but that hunt dump this is kind of scaring the shit out of them that all the sudden you taking us away first of all it was a source of income for a lot of these people that would guide them but it was also a smart thing to control the population keep them away from humans well though I don't feel it being another country I don't have that sense of it being that other countries don't have that sense of that the thought of that you could influence you know so the second is how I watching something happen in a distant when is closed and I don't know all the factors that play as well as I do here I have some friends that live up there my friend Mike hockridge choose a guide up there he's told me horror stories about Grizzlies had to shoot one trying to get into his cabin from like 6 feet away and you know they're there big fuckers they are I love them to death

► 02:04:52

me really yes it's a wild thing that they're the we have this huge monster that lives in the woods I have been charged I like having I like every encounter never mix up and it's really it's like deeply complicated stuff and went on about these things it's also they become like everything they become a proxy we're we're we're we're engaged in a debate about what is you know we're engaged in debate about like conflicting views on wildlife and these animals step into this debate and the debate centers around them and it winds up being bigger than a debate about

► 02:05:36

Grizzlies bigger than a debate about bison or Buffalo right bigger than the debate about wolves it's just that these animals step into this ongoing dialogue about what is a relationship with the natural world what is a relationship with renewable resources what is that relationship with rural versus Urban perspectives on how people should be around Wildlife being packed by wildlife and so it's just it's just it's through line of us trying to sort out how to be like good responsible stewards of the landscape and that debate always centers around these things like you could have a huge argument like you did it like a lot of tension with your spouse right and it's Springs up-and-up debate about how best to load the dishwasher or who was supposed to pick up the kids from school and his eyes like it always finds a place to live and right now we're like the dis argument about American wildlife and what is a relationship to it is is found its place to live right now

► 02:06:36

large predators in Scotland is found its way to live around a feral goat on an island well that one case

► 02:06:48

all the traveling that you do and all the hunting trips you go on this has it gotten to a point ever that it seems like a job

► 02:07:00

yeah now that I have kids I've it's changed a little bit of you a little bit differently but no I still I still really love it and I'm able to know that I'm able to know that I'm missing my family while I'm out I'm able to know that and feel that pain and still know that I love what I do and I love talking about the things that I talk about an interview at like as a as I'm sure you do like it's like this tremendous privilege that you're able to

► 02:07:36

kind of grow up to have field have a second tense interest in the subject in the sentence dressed and lifestyle and have you built like introduce people to all these different ideas right so yeah I can have those two things simultaneous the kind of longing to be home more but enjoying being out I think if the longing to be home or would override that someday it might change it but right now I'm

► 02:08:04

you know I'll just have seen so many things that I'm happy to have seen and to think about a future of not accumulating those experiences at the rapid rate that I've accumulated in the movie kind of bums me out a little bit yeah you've lived a hundred lives at the trip that you were talking about when you were in South America and the jungle and came across those pictographs what do you say hi to Petroglyph petroglyphs petroglyphs on the rocks that no one had any idea who made no one know why they were just there now what it sound like a spot on a map that tourists go to visit oh here's the petroglyphs now they just they are they're just they are in the The Hunters like yeah they're they are the ancient ones made these haters get the fish who knows how old that is thousand years old

► 02:09:05

you know to eat the way I eat live the way I eat it sits I feel fortunate all the time

► 02:09:13

well thank you very important because there's a

► 02:09:17

this is a real lack of well-read articulate people that support your position better in the media I mean you got a lot of these shows that are on these

► 02:09:29

the hunting networks that the appeal to a very narrow band with in this narrow band with his so you know it's it it's like your stereotypical idea of what hunting is to a lot of people so they'll flip through the channels to watch that for a few minutes and see someone hooting and hollering after they shoot something then they get this bad taste in the mouth about it whereas I tell people all the time if you really want to get an understanding about what hunting is about I will always recommend your show because you're you're narration and your reverence for what you're doing and the animals and just you're at your appreciation for how cool the experiences and how Wild it is. Don't you know for lack of a better term to just to be out there in nature and to be in the pursuit of these things than the take these things these Wild

► 02:10:29

features and feed your family in the Abbott become a part of your life and to sustain yourself with it primarily so it's you you're giving a perspective that I don't think is available but I think I is is really important because it's just there's so many people out that are out there that are Hunters that are smart well-read people that feel frustrated like God I wish everybody could see it the way I see it of hunting

► 02:11:04

and fishing and living like a Hands-On relationship with the natural world living in close proximity to Wildlife like my interest in that desire to do that

► 02:11:17

predated by long ways my ability to talk about why I think that those things are important it was there it wasn't like I didn't grow up around and then later started understanding the stuff and thinking about it and then decided like well the path for me then considering what I know now the path me then we do have to figure out hunting was like hunting was there I loved it I love it today and I just had the luxury through what I do for a living to spend a lot of time thinking about will why is that the case if this feels like harmonious to you and you can kind of like living this and understand and see how you fit into some greater

► 02:11:59

you know act logical picture right if it does feel that way and that seems to be true how is it that like why is that right and it was pushing at those edges that I've been she developed way in which I talk about it no I meet all kinds of people who live that same lifestyle that I live grown up and when I talk to him or thing that they appreciate it just it that someone is articulating the them something that they felt to be true in new to be true but just haven't had the time or you know another time or ability to really go out and express it so I just I would never want to act like like I'm in vent like a certain have not invented some way of thinking about it like Aldo Leopold and Theodore Roosevelt Gifford Pinchot Harrison Tom mcguane for contemporary writers about an experience in the outdoors in a way that I haven't invented some new things

► 02:12:59

Nordic articulating expressing something that has been in existence for a long time if people see negative stereotypes on YouTube stereotypes on certain television shows a lot of stuff to self-feeding you know I think a lot of stuff gets created because it does have a shock value to it and I would think that that minus the camera

► 02:13:23

a lot of minus the camera a lot of like activities that people might feel her abhorrent might not even be taking place where there is a Hamming it up from for the camera that goes on that's interesting do you think that they're so I can sort of a stereotypical pattern they feel like they have to fall into so they fall into it when the cameras on almost like a DJ strip club voice is kind of thing that happens with people who feel under attack and and in many ways you know Hunters are under attack and is in a lot of places and I think that there's a way when your you feel like you're being attacked you feel like you're being pigeonholed stereotyped or response is to cram it right back down

► 02:14:12

someone else's throat you like I'll show you an interest Deputy that stuff for like you fall into this us against them you know fuck damn like I'm going to let you know I'll show them how we really are you get into this like kind of dialogue thing it's a lot more paint it's like more painful painful let's let's talk about this for real this is something we need to discuss lessons like digging and and discuss it and I think a lot of people feel like hunting feels like something is natural them they like to do it and they don't feel the need to take the time to explain it and one question when pressed to explain it

► 02:14:54

they may be kind of lash out you know it maybe lack the ability to look at it from an outside perspective cuz it's been a part of their life their life and they don't want to justify yeah it's

► 02:15:10

Salter's also the weird thing that as much as you can appreciate hunting and think of it as an ethical way to acquire meet everybody can't do it we've got too many people it's under Honorable in that that's that's a I mean there's no responsibility for you to acknowledge that but it's it's something that it gets brought up when people talk about the the how ethical acquisition of meat is really like either hunting or you have to raise something yourself and be absolutely aware or get something from a farmer whose you know completely ethical from from birth to death and and you have to be comfortable with that but the most ethical in my opinion is a hunting but then people always say yeah but everybody can't hunt

► 02:16:01

okay but I can know if I can what do I do about the fact that everybody cannot well everyone could come in it's a moot point since it doesn't matter I guess they're not going to but no certainly everyone could enter into

► 02:16:18

the hunting game you know you could come in and hunt it would just mean that you had a much larger pool of people after a limited resource and that limited resource would be allocated in a different way yeah you can you could have total participation and it would just be that every person slice of the pie would be much smaller but it's not like you know when we look at 1:20 State Medical like looks at like what's up what what's what's a turkey Harvest that are State could support they break the state up and do a bunch of different units they look at population Trends and they determine how many turkey can we afford to harvest without impacting the Turkey population right if everyone in the state wanted to chance you still wind up with the same number you didn't want to put the same number of turkeys being killed or just be that you would have less opportunity you have to wait longer to get your turn so it's not that everybody can't I don't think he will not when I do the stuff that I do

► 02:17:17

like it in writing a wild game cookbook I'm doing two things and running ball game tonight but I'm doing the main thing that I feel is the most important part of my job is most important part of what I am is I'm like having a conversation with people live this lifestyle right like those are people that I relate to I want to represent the world in the way that it did like enhances Our Lives provide education write and share my experiences with an audience people that I recommend is a tribe that I'm part of would you like American hunters and Anglers and I'm presenting them like doing a cookbook I'm presenting like best practices how to sort of like live the best version of of a wild game last out they can hear the way to think about an approach Wild game but but also that the secondary problem doing is presenting a world to people who might be unfamiliar with it and yes do I have the hope that people will like say read this book and then be like

► 02:18:17

and I want to participate in this lifestyle that can mean as much as I'm walking down to the local River in their city and flipping over rocks and picking up crayfish but it is introducing them bringing them into the natural world and bringing them into engagement with nature and I do love you and hope that will happen will happen in some Grand scale or will have hundreds of millions of but I do think that it is important that we do have more people involved we in large measure refund much of our Wildlife work and management law enforcement disease research on and on refund that stuff through hunting and fishing licenses in through excise taxes on Sporting Goods equipment if the more people that are engaged this activity I think the the better ones up being for American wildlife I agree but the idea is that everyone can't do it so the idea that you're saying

► 02:19:17

this is how you ethically acquire meet this is not a salt solution for everyone is everyone say that this is the only way people make if you say that you know it hey I hunt for my meat this is how I epically acquire me they will everybody can't do that because there's not enough animals good that's true that's true everybody can't do that if he's even more people got involved it's not as it's not a solution for the entire population you can say well that's good did the entire populations are going to do it anyway but it's

► 02:19:54

that gets into it so it's a stranger this just the Giant number of human beings that need to be fed is almost no other solution the solution that we're doing right now if they come up with some sort of a lab-created meet or whatever the fuck they're going to come up with Max which they are to get your lips are curling as though I'm pretty I'm pretty happy with my diet right now and I'll watch that kind of stuff I'm curious about a personal insult but I don't know if everybody's created meet but I still had the and I still have the ability to continue eating how I'm living I live do that as being a future Problem Rocky Mountain elk Federation is reintroduced validation to what I say Federation Dave introduced to a lot of different places and made sustainable population

► 02:20:54

turn out hunted in this is me this is a beautiful thing and I hope the day they continue to spread and continue to do that it do you think it's possible that other game animals could be reintroduced to places where they would develop such a large population that we could sustain maybe even double the amount of hunters we have now is that possible that well put it this way

► 02:21:18

yes for SARS yes you let you just full of article about wolves you know I still like every article from mainstream news sources that involves walls you'll know kind of detect the bias of the individual writing it and they're saying how Wolves of only been recovered across 10% of their historic range elk

► 02:21:38

that's not the same for Elk yeah you're missing from 80 plus percent of their historic range in the lower 48 but we have you know

► 02:21:49

he knows that the various size of a quarter million of them live in in Colorado or you know something about a hundred thousand whatever yet now for have 20,000 living in Kentucky those are all gone New Mexico at a point has zero Michigan zero Kentucky zero Pennsylvania Zero from the unregulated slaughter of the market hunting Arrow when people could shoot me and sell it and urban meat markets right they limited American Wild game before we figured out how to do what other word I keep using all the time now which is like regulated Harvest regulator management so all that stuff was gone later they were states were there was no states were there was no deer hunting at the time of European contact did turkeys in 39 states that will down two turkeys in 19 states have turkey hunting seasons in 49 states tremendous job

► 02:22:45

recovering Wildlife Richie Rich man's job to demonstrate like what happens to an animal that Hunters value and love and are able to use as a renewable resource is all species tend to really enjoy a lot of protections and they thrived because people are invested in their best interest so yeah we've created turkey hunting seasons in 30 States

► 02:23:11

so yes you can recover what you can like do things of Wildlife and like create resources the fact that we now we used to argue about what's going to happen with deer we can like Drive deer to Extinction certain States or extirpation certain States now our big argument is what we do is having so many deer

► 02:23:27

hear it wanted to being you come up against social tolerances it's hard to like you know when we fill in the map on Elkhorn Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation looks and filling in the map on out you got to sell people on the idea that you're going to recover help

► 02:23:43

there's a lot of resistance to recovering Wildlife kazlauskas inconvenient to have around they do a great job of brokering deals with States and finding places where you know estate maybe has a patch of habitat they think could support the animals and providing the expertise and financial support and all that stuff like bringing those things but generally you wind up worried because of settlement cities in Suburban areas we want the fewer and fewer places where we can go and do it so it's a really feel in the map on on recovering lcross all that range weather supposed to be I don't know that we'll get there but we've got in there and got other stuff there's like you would like the wild sheep Foundation right there try and do the same thing of bighorn sheep there it's not even social attitudes their wines of being diseased

► 02:24:28

like they spent the domestic sheep yeah they're their main like the main problem preventing us from recovering bighorn sheep

► 02:24:37

is disease type types of pneumonia they come from domestic sheet wow and people you know that you're going and say to someone who's running sheep on a mountain domestic sheep on the mountain and say hey no insult to you and no insult so that you know your forebears who been sheep ranchers here 420 years or whatever but we would like to try to recover America my life and bring Big Horns back this mountain range that's going to require you moving the Sheep by the way it's an insulting idea that people so there is a blocker there and every animal has its own type of prop turkeys it worked. Don't get pissed about turkey no don't feel like having them around and look at what's going on with just allowing you know allowing bison the walk out of Yellowstone National Park that's an issue

► 02:25:26

ever quarter-century now

► 02:25:29

Beaver like I'm not comfortable with you letting these big ass things walk out of the park in Rome around because of disease

► 02:25:37

grazing right there people don't want to be inconvenienced by Wildlife either places where I would be like in that area I would really like to see like when a bison leave the park you stop being a wild animal and becomes livestock what's going on with that American Savannah thing

► 02:25:57

what is that that that program a jar that again what is going on with that explain what the fuck that is crazy

► 02:26:10

I mean I know it's just a long story too long yeah we're going to have that we're working with having the it's it's too long in the founder on our show Prairie reserve us a bunch of animals into a gigantic chunk of land and they continue to buy up more of this land and running block Management on this as well and is a lot of suspicions and controversy and it's like a it's a it's an idea that a lot of people uneasy with but the problem is not the problem the thing is is like people who say they have a they have funding and then have a thing with one blank in the goal of buying up the land is to turn it back into you no turning back into wildlife habitat for Native wildlife and it went it's concert it's the car

► 02:27:10

it stems from the fact that some people don't like to see areas that were did supported like traditional economies in rural areas like cattle ranching and and to see these the tip to see these areas returning to a wild landscape is threatening to people from the owner perspective is there allowing the Islam place of the people used to be able to hunt in American Prairie Reserve is allowing hunting to go on and people are coming in saying with a needle make sure than you do Asher us that hunting will be allowed here in perpetuity and because we're suspicious about what's going on so there's a lot of like you hear about it so many ways but the core mission is something that most people when you look at it the core Mission something that most people are going to look at them be pretty comfortable if you like okay you're a guy or an organization you have money I want to Branch comes up for sale you buy it on the open market

► 02:28:06

seller names is price you pay the price is now your land if you choose to not run cattle the one that have bison roam around on it why should I care right but people do care because they look at it as being like a value judgment

► 02:28:24

they look at it as being like a value judgment about rural economies in about agriculture

► 02:28:32

huh I didn't think about that way there's a thousand more aspects of this

► 02:28:44

next time I come on okay next time you going to take like an hour to explain the situation was there long-term plan like how long is this going on for it's been going on for quite a while right now the long-term play is it over time you would assemble a p a chunk of the Great Plains that is far bigger than Yellowstone National Park that supports of thriving population of Bison wolves grizzly bears you know in a in a park-like setting

► 02:29:16

wow but it doesn't come without you know doesn't come without its own bits of controversy

► 02:29:25


► 02:29:27

yeah it again it's like it's something that everyone has a feeding tube out there that there was a virgin they don't like to talk about that there's a version just called the Buffalo Commons that happened long ago where a there was a social scientist named I think it was Frank popper but left him a popper and he was looking at demographic patterns on the Great Plains and he was observing the ways in which the great areas on the Great Plains were the population was shrinking okay so there's a lot of counties on the Great Plains we're through various like long-term agricultural Trends and other issues were the human population is rapidly shrinking wrapping the declining

► 02:30:08

and this sociologist

► 02:30:12

brought up this idea that if these Trends continue you're going to have this rare case in which a landscape sort of accidentally rewilded okay where everyone left which is not a story were familiar with me look at what happened so wildlands you know across the world ride the general stories like people move in while they move out so this idea the Buffalo Commons okay and that was it just so happens that that idea that this that idea kind of centered around this area on Jordan Montana right because you have large tracts of federally manage public land up there you had a lot of like ranchland that wasn't that expensive and people could buy it and I was like the seat of the idea I think there was such an unpopular notion cuz it had to do with like economic Decay right and shrinking towns and reduced resources for public education all the kind of stuff that comes from having an economy does not thriving

► 02:31:12

overtime that like Buffalo Commons idea kind of Segway a western writer would use a lot of landscape and environmental issues was talking about in the wake of the Buffalo Commons ID and poppers work was talking about going to Jordan Montana and talking about the Buffalo Commons is a great way to get your ass kicked because it's this i d like it if if I made a civilization out of the Wilderness and they brought an animal's and created economies and created communities and for someone and now say no thanks but no thanks bro

► 02:31:58

we'd rather go back and eliminate your presence on this Landscaping we don't in fact value what you did and we're going to try as hard as we can to undo what you did because we view it as that you did your people did the wrong thing or going to crack that wrong and some like it some it some people it's like this insulting idea will they celebrate it because they're like a if it's for sale and I buy it it's mine I could see it from both perspectives sure man it's it's it's very much like the hunting thing if you're a part of it you have a deep history in it you you understand that you know your perspective of Ranchi is from a Rancher where is people the outside conveniently can be ignorant about it and go I'll fuck those ranchers I want to see the Buffalo my perspective on Wildlife is band it's a thing that you it's a thing that you care about you work to conserve you want to have it on the landscape and you also eat a lot of it

► 02:32:58

damn that's a foreign it is I'm glad that you can't sell Wild game I'm glad that Mark and honey is not a thing however I would really love it if there was a restaurant where you could go where you could buy like really well-prepared wild game dishes like a really well-prepared bear really well-prepared mountain lion well-prepared you know fill in the blank with the animal I just think that would be a fascinating place to eat you know and maybe maybe they could do something like that they wouldn't be that you could actually sell them I mean they have to be some weird work around it it have to be like it would have someone have to get the condo one of my dinner part I would have been the general public to participate in it I need to get a better understanding and I got a lot to put up these posts all the time of elk that I cook and people that God damn I want to eat some of that I don't like that

► 02:33:58

that you got to go get one of the only way you can eat that well you can buy come to my house by the farm raised version

► 02:34:07

but then the gym that's one blueberry black bear but yeah you can buy you buy out there a raisin in a ranch environment right yeah I mean as long as you're getting it from New Zealand you not dealing with CWD in a lot of the other issues of the dealing with in America right now I mean there are no load those places are tested and then one that herds that have CWD and destroyed right and you're sinking you brought up on you podcast recently how New Zealand have been talks about actual eradication and one of the arguments of hunters always uses hey we're controlling the population this is a good service at were provided and then the government comes along as well how about we take care of that and everything hey not so fast it's that that takes place

► 02:35:07

really ain't easy no more they have these like like thriving very robust populations of non-native wildlife and you know the Garmin is all does has always and does now do a lot of culling of these animals they don't have predators right there they have like extremely like the very fourcand extremely high reproductive rates Nate the Garmin is actively engaged and Round the Clock gunning Wildlife from helicopters like she was just letting you know protects our ecosystems and and keep like a lot of native plant species am going to extinct in fragile environments and all kinds of reasons they exist no death right there's no there's no credit there's no Predator control on which is huge and then a lot of places just completely inadequate amount of anything that Hunters of Oz been else

► 02:36:07

2 with an in a cold you are like a cheerleading in Australia control and then later when people come up and talk about we know we're going to get serious about this and we're going to really actively

► 02:36:29

with a gold like totally eliminating these feces people are justifiably made uneasy about it because it's a it's a thing that they've come to appreciate and rely on in a resource that they want to use now or wait a minute

► 02:36:43

Oak Hill Mall in here in this weird like supporting you in a in a weird position because if if you could live there and you could do agree that we have some small number of them on the landscape and we're going to use those and were going to hunt those and eat those I also if someone said hey they're gone now I would be bum yeah I hunt turkeys that I was saying we had turkeys in 39 States at the time of European contact we have turkeys in 49 states now I hunt turkeys in a lot of those 10 states that didn't historically have turkeys and the do now and I generally have a prospective trying to preserve native wildlife and trying to control non-native cuz I don't want to wind up with sort of a dislike monolithic Wildlife pattern for the same super resilient adapted species such as Canada geese and rats and whitetail deer take over the entire country and pigs

► 02:37:43

came in said okay you know what we're going to actually go in and kill off all the turkeys in those 10 states that is Starkey didn't have turkeys I would say like how I'm in oh really and how kind of grown really like those turkeys in the not really causing the problem is some people you know if your New Zealand Hunter Australian Hunter I don't think anyone's argue there should be no control but I think that they are cyclist find a balance I do we can find a balance of your some availability and was on the experience on this continent some availability of animals that's fine like a reasonable compromise here that was one of the discussions as well about Hawaii and some of the Hawaiian Islands eradicating the pigs and then the Hawaiians were saying they've been here as long as us they brought the pig with them how am I a native Hawaiian

► 02:38:41

and the pig has to go people out of jail

► 02:38:47

didn't you start again man I always instinctively when I hear stuff I instinctively lean and I instinctively lean in from the perspective of United States is leaning from the perspective of the the hunter angler you know in like an end in I love all these little debate and I think that they're all really helpful and interesting but I know I feel like I can recognize your paint and I can also look far away in in laugh at the absurdity of it like I even had a guy right me from Australian say this is a real bummer cuz it was his loss

► 02:39:25

to the thing we got to say like yeah you know what I wasn't really just doing it cuz I'm trying to help the ecosystem by eliminating non-natives actually like having some around and I just got to come out and say that that's a bummer I really do wish there was some sort of a restaurant I think that would be a great place for people to get a perspective

► 02:39:49

there's no way to do that though huh no but I know there's not probably not for the all the things that you're talking about now and I don't and I don't look too

► 02:39:59

there is talk of a lot of people are looking to our are pushing for this idea that an Aries I have too many whitetail deer there's people who are really pushing to reopen up the sale of of wild harvested deer as a solution to a deer overpopulation but I'm but for me from the perspective from from my perspective in from the damage that was caused by unregulated Wildlife Slaughter I'm very very uneasy with it and I do not picture myself ever coming around and support the idea that would start marketing that we would start marketing wild cervids no I agree and I think that just this year

► 02:40:46

possibility of fuckery and people shooting an approaching them and selling them and it's just increase the commodification of wildlife something that something that I also just uncomfortable with in general to come out of vacation wildlife and I think about resource availability for hunters and I think that a lot of people who enjoy access to certain areas now to go hunting so it's like hunt for themselves and their family did the minute you made it be that those dear had a dollar value attach them there be a lot less opportunity for people who choose to hunt to feed themselves because it was always going to be like why would I let you come in or allow you to come in and use a resource when I'm just going to do my best now to collect it up and sell it so again for aesthetic reasons for what it would mean for Honor

► 02:41:46

for our perception of our relationship with our resources are extremely uncomfortable with that keeps popping up and I and I usually hate to say that I hate top of hours to me dear there's too much this too much that was like by whose measurement but in some areas you really do especially you start getting in the tub issues like Lyme disease from ticks in Starvation and then just the possibility of other disease outbreaks in the spread of certain Wildlife diseases there's some areas like I buy any reasonable measurement we have too many deer

► 02:42:21

well look dirty want to know how crazy is that

► 02:42:27

time flies in this room is awesome it really is I'm glad to talk to you doing it I appreciate it I really do appreciate that you do it because I think it's it's my favorite podcast to recommend people that want if I want them to get an understanding of hunting without you know even watching it just listening to you talk about me guess on where you know you might not even be talking about hunting you might be talking about biology might be talking about history and now it's it's it's just a great podcast and you're a great guy for the job you play a very important part out there I really really believe that thank you I appreciate it and I am glad you talked me into doing it it's been in terms of all the things I do

► 02:43:16

the big TV writing it's the thing that I enjoy doing the most as a lot of things I enjoy having done it more bright for the things that I enjoy actually doing it I'm just have like a smile on my face doing it what year was such a great talker I mean the member the first time you did my podcast even before me neither when you were just coming off of the wild within what is it was that what it's called and I remember thinking why is this guy will fucking podcast this is like how many years ago 7 years ago something like that the first time I've ever heard the word podcast the first time I ever heard the word podcast was Helen show

► 02:43:54

telling me that I should go on Joe Rogan podcast I didn't know what it meant that's how early you were into the shit you were in the bishop before I ever heard the word wow that's crazy I want a background for my book again okay so it's called the meat eater fish and game cookbook recipes and techniques for every Hunter and angler got a picture that Jamie

► 02:44:17

bam there it is I say one last thing. Releases right now releases this weekend November 24th available for pre-order everywhere and it's a broken into a bunch of chapters has big game small for a game like rabbits hares squirrels Upland Birds waterfowl freshwater fish or saltwater fish shell fish and Crustaceans reptiles and amphibians all your bullfrog stuff is in there and you want to talk about its pieces of spreading all across the country bullfrogs chicks very unwelcome Leon Thomas multi frog gig

► 02:44:57

I don't care where you live like this life you live in the city and I do not want to go out and get some wild game but I can't get rid of Elkhart how do I do that you could be out gigging frogs at night and don't even know

► 02:45:08

frog gigging crayfish grab we talked about all this kind of stuff in the book so all explains everything from hot like breakdown and process and freeze stuff and then for everything there are many recipes in the recipes walk you through how to use the entire thing so you from for your whitetail deer everything from the tongue

► 02:45:28

to the rear Shank

► 02:45:30

how do you like specific recipes on how to do it and also his General best practices and guidelines around how to handle the ingredients and all the stuff around all the substitutions so there's no such thing as a in Elkhart recipe rise I got it like handle game Hearts weather is mule deer Whitetail whatever like how to approach a heart and notes in an attitude toward Wild game that is not it's cut specific not species-specific in with fish too late Thursday like I don't but not going to look at you like those is a walleye recipe for this is a bluegill recipe but how to handle like varieties of freshwater fish and like what kind of what kind of recipes you can use that are interchangeable depending on where you live in what you use and all includes all that the real pretty pictures beautiful you canciones boot Alice how to do the tail skinny method on squirrel and I don't care where you live you damn sure they're near squirrels

► 02:46:28

people very uncomfortable squirrel eating squirrel brains got nothing to do with the article I sent you what what did he do you know wind up with that form Crooksville Jacobs dirty American line up with it just have to do this dude sometime in this past it's in some sort it's a prion tour prion prion descendants of thing happens and people but but it was the correlation between his diet and what happened to him was implied implied put possible

► 02:47:15

if you go read up on it but now seems like people are really saying like there's no

► 02:47:23

there's no obvious relationship here no obvious relationship between eating squirrel brains and getting a prion disease that there's plenty of people that get the same thing that haven't been eating squirrel brains so just they were just looking at the unusual aspects of his diet and pointing to that it's not that scientific the article got a lot more than it did when the later subsequent pieces came out represent

► 02:47:51

yeah we don't really like your brother cute

► 02:47:56

yeah I ate some squirrel with you nothing you can serve me now very good is not a person in the world you know we having to put in their cookbook as we have on how to do buffalo buffalo wings hot wings how do hot legs with squirrels really so it's just like you making on shooting squirrels

► 02:48:17

Albany very state-by-state if you're in New York you know you have a season you know squirrel season in most state so it's either one is a season in the bag limit for the treated as a non-game species so here in California there's a squirrel season is a bag when I think it's for a day for for squirrels a day when's the season in August and September into winter in the January February so where I grew up September 5th

► 02:48:49

September 8th to January 27th archery falconry only Jesus Christ's archery in Falcon and Falcon falconry how can I got to go to the trees grow zone map right but in your state jackrabbits are open for instance your state jackrabbits or manages non-gaming there's no bag limit open year-round snow she like cottontails no issues at different Management in a lot of States Pine squirrels are red squirrels aren't commonly hunted for the more regarded as like thing to get into people's houses but they're not hundred for me there be listed as a species of fox squirrels and grey squirrels vs games PC so in New York I think the bag limit when I was living there was 6 per day of possession limit of two bag limits did you shoot squirrels in Brooklyn Needham no no I caught some marinate them so I was born in Michigan

► 02:49:49

squirrel season was September 15th and it ran into the end of January fives world had a possession limit of two bag limits the state I live in now treats species so there's no closed season no bag limit because there's not really a does not of the not widely distributed in or not commonly Hunted

► 02:50:12

all right but yeah most places they have them and they're managing you go out and buy a small game license for 12 bucks or whatever get your hunter safety get yourself a 22 or shotgun and you become a squirrel man or lady like you buddy Kevin Murphy my favorite guys on your podcast he's a squirrel man blows a horn in the woods before every hunt to alert the animals that he's coming

► 02:50:48

the shofar right is that right for

► 02:50:52

and not when you blow the shofar in like a Jewish synagogue is that what it is so far I'll give all the Rams Rams Horn it's not it's not

► 02:51:04

you know the end of No Country for Old Men

► 02:51:08

every type of the four I don't know he talks about his father riding out ahead of him with a horn of Fire

► 02:51:17

and then when you get here relates the dreams in the book and it's in the movie The Time Of The Jones characters describing a dream in which they're riding through a snowstorm in his father rides that had with a horn of fire and I was wondering how many people heard that and had no idea what he was talking about but what are common practices used to be as you take a horn buffalo horn cow horn and it's Hollow because I'm the girls off of protrusion of the skull called the Horn Court and you Poppin Off in his hollow and what people do is when you left your campfire in the morning you would feel that horn with Amber and cap it will there be a little pin hole in it just to let a little bit of air in there so I can continue to smolder and you carry that horn all day full of Embers and at night to start a new fire you would dump the horn and rekindle your fire so he talks about his father writing on ahead of them with a horn of fire what that's meant to say is that he knew his father will be waiting out of head of him

► 02:52:17

with a fire burning low but Kevin Murphy just blows it let squirrels know he's coming

► 02:52:25

thanks, man I was going to talk to you we keep saying we got to organize another hunt we have a catalog to have to do something

► 02:52:32

call Bryan Callen

► 02:52:34

I talked to him recently will make it happen your guys on Instagram and he's one of the funny guys alive

► 02:52:42


► 02:52:44

thanks everybody for tuna to the podcast and thank you to our sponsors thank you to my bookie free play on Turkey Day my bookie will give you your money back up to $250 you literally cannot lose its no risk all gravy what it is fucking crazy they lost their mind over at my bookie log on to my bookie right now and use the promo code Rogan also to get 50% off deposit bonus you don't need a promo code though for your turkey day FreePlay if you lose they'll credit the money back into your account automatically so what are you waiting for sign up today and don't miss out on the gravy train at mybookie thank you also to 23andMe 23andMe through Thanksgiving

► 02:53:35

23andMe ancestry service kids are only $49 per kid when you buy two or more kits that's 50% off the regular ticket price of $99 this holiday order your 23andMe ancestry service kit at 23andme.com Rogan that's the number to three and me.com / Rogan and last but not least we are brought to you by the cash app the number one app and Finance in the App Store you can download the cash app for free and get your cash card for free when you visit the App Store the Google Play Market now and of course when you download the cash app and to the referral code Joe Rogan all one word you'll get $5 in the cash Apple send $5 to Justin wrens fight for the Forgotten charity thank you everybody appreciate you to no end and see you soon