#1215 - Ben O'Brien

December 17, 2018

Ben O’Brien is a writer, editor, host of The Hunting Collective podcast, a member of the Backcountry Hunters and Anglers Board of Directors and MeatEater’s Editorial Director.

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hello ladies and gentlemen how's Irma doing happy holidays you fucks merry Christmas happy Kwanzaa is it Happy Kwanzaa merry Kwanzaa happy Hanukkah if you're secularist if you're an atheist happy happy happy just. Hope you're happy I am here's a reason why my fucking website I love my website and I love how we made the website to website JoeRogan.Com was made with Squarespace if you want those people that doesn't have a website but you want a website it's one of those things where you going to have to get into it there's going to be a lot of shit you're going to have to deal with you going to have to hire someone and they going to bring you a design you're going to hate it and they're not going to get what you're trying to do you do it yourself

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how could you go wrong you can't and how about this right now you can enjoy the stamps.com service with a special offer that includes a 4 week trial plus Postage and a digital scale without long-term commitments go to stamps.com click on the microphone to top the whole page and enter JRE that stamps.com and enter j e r e m I guess today is good friend of mine his name is Ben O'Brien he's a brilliant guy he is a writer he's a conservationist and Outdoors when he's a guy who understands a lot of things about public lands and Wildlife and if you're one of those people that like you don't understand the appeal of hunting is the best podcast I've ever done on it was just a lot of the podcast not just mine don't listen to Joey Diaz podcast but if you're interested in hearing the perspective of an intelligent articulate person well read

person discuss wildlife and conservation and and why they hunt and what it all means that I'm in a lot of the cool stuff we talked about 2 then please give it up for my friend been on The Joe Rogan Experience

what was this beverage concocted by you are the first one yes you created ride brain if you ask me yes if he has Dudley what is he said he would say maybe he was there

maybe he was there but he was definitely there but who's Brian special get that shirt on your website with the mediator. Com to go to the store and it's Steve rinella are good friends and yes we're talking about what they're dealing with what meat eaters doing this is very strange thing where they have this giant growing a ton of money at mediator and all these different companies that are involved in the outdoors all these outdoor activities that is true and they're putting it all together into one super Network Juggernaut Juggernaut of outdoor activities true true

it is something I've never been apart of before it's something like I've never seen before in the hunting industry has it ever existed before I don't think so I don't think so better to try then something it's never been done what you have been doing your podcast for what like a year now how are you been doing about 10 months and we're just saying that five years ago five years ago and I met on a moose hunt in British Columbia and I would say that it was like friendship first and Sam soholt as well have ever had on a hunt it was good baby ever done a lot of stuff we were laughing a lot that's why I was like a lot of fun and a lot of hardship and sleeping tents at Mike's house which is great and then you know it was a successful until like

couple days celebration was fantastic Strummer sometime I got real when you're drunk and you're drunk in the middle of nowhere there's wolves everywhere it's a different kind of drunk

remember that we went and we shot your bull ride and then we took the heart and liver we started drinking heavily and you are up there is cooking liver and onions cooking a giant Mooseheart so we have like the fuel of organs and animal you just killed like the trash bag Canadian ROM that was terrible but it works wrap it all up to me like I kind of get good whiskey now I understand whiskey sort of an Irish it's just like it's all so it's in there and then play here's what I don't get tequila people that is good to kill off his butt every to kill I ever drink or go ideas

look at that George Clooney tequila what does he listen I'll tell you what is Ron White's tequila numero one number one number one number one wasn't good enough at everything else and all handsome and wonderful he made it tequila company in like did it right if you listen to the origin story of it did it right well looks like his company does number one she would happen is you got married they realize this and I'm going to have some money on the side in case this shit it's rocks

that's what I like to do and I'm a little bit bored and not feeling it tequila yeah every man who has ever heard an awful divorce story. No matter how good it's going every awful divorce started with I do it all started with the person cuz that would just be me and him out that I like I knew in my younger years that got married and I was in the the wedding party but you got there is very dangerous dangerous for you medical they made medical-legal no flocking Savages dispensaries in Nevada dispensaries out when I was in Bozeman last time I was there they were there were shutting down the doors of the dispenser

you live in the golden land here yeah but you know what

I hesitate to say this but it's probably for the best just keep people like me I say space it's just me and you were in the trust tree in the nest Bozeman is so special it's such a cool little time we should be talking about I shouldn't be telling people about how great it is so terrible Place Bears will eat you alive but the good people turn up missing like some assholes steals lawn mowers would just make it to live to be a hundred and La they could eat when they like 35 Bozeman give a fuk I was there in the summer it's like it's like white walkers when is a large ice wall when did you move

we just my family just moved there we just moved into our brand new home about three weeks ago there mister Rogan but you were there before we were running nose running living out of it I looked out of a storage unit for a time I heard there's a rumor that included you sleeping well did you get a gym membership for something listen airport north towards it's time for me to tell the truth oh my God I can't believe you're coming clean with I'm coming clean I did sleep in there some nights I slept in in a storage unit when you sign not to do that is to get a hotel but I just did that you know that's a sacrifice for my family to build a house I needed to be where my job was

you camp out there he can't I just beautiful now it's beautiful and so popular that time of year that it's hard to know that's right it's hard to find a place to stay for a short. That ain't really Goin Down amazing Airbnb houses on make money when no one's there like you please technology company that before I was coming home the other night there was five of spine me so they don't lift is different because they have that weird thing on the dash that little light on the dash and I was like I was being chased by these purple robots was like what the fuck is this is strange origin story to show that was on the sword was it ever sold one to a guy for $500 and inside was a safe that had

7.5 million dollars in cash in it and it and you made a deal with them what's the deal would you want to go into a business what were in the Storage Wars the fuck you have a whole show about people finding things in storage units you sell storage unit and it's got seven million dollars in 10 and 1/2 and 1/2 million dollars still pregnant, how dirty is that money exactly the money must be only in the stores in bad handsome dude that was in the beginning of Ozarks

Mexican the comes around with twins did you see Ozark Embassy Ozark that's a damn good one is a good that is a damn good show what's the guy that's the guy who stars in that Jason Bateman in the woman Laura Linney mini she's amazing the families amazing kids amazing it's fucking show man it's a show that Netflix let you watch them all like a Christmas party and I got it with a bunch of hunters and I got the hook the like the stink-eye like what's this guy talking about the movie The Greatest

German so is that the musical I've been forced to watch segments of that with my wife and children it is fantastic very good movie he's an angel in Australian Angel sent down here to save us save us you ever seen him dance and sing his magical I'm a Hunter I got a hunting podcast but I'm telling you your manly man but I love that movie Scream movie I listen to it on the Pandora the greatest showman Channel and I sing the tune listen did my favorite comedy on TV is the unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt okay so I can't be talking about manly things are not manly things perform the greatest showman songs he's going to just sing look at it when we had about you look at him a one-man show gorgeous man he's just I mean it's unbelievable unbelievable I get made fun of for this course my son likes it my wife likes it but I enjoy your son how old is he

you don't know anybody like the music is this happened he's not like a baby Dora back on Dora I think that I watch Like if you watch things like Game of Thrones where they are burning children and like it's entertaining but I like to watch a man dance around sing night club in calm people down in just sitting and watching like women and children with smoked it's it's what's the other the show with Anthony Hopkins on HBO what's that the robot one the same way there shooting kids on there that while the kids are real by week

you should come come from person that's been out a bunch of life changing experiences and I know you have and I will I want to talk to you about something yes especially the one in the power we almost died you saw children wolves last podcast but it's probably so obsessed with life-or-death drama that's artificial you see it like in it in the in the show Westworld they talked about like it being a game did being this game of access like what can I do in my real life that's why we watch TV and you watch murdering and watch this evil thing come to life you're just your bits it really is something that you can be transported can't do that any rate for sure with Westworld what you're getting is basically a real life version that Red Dead Redemption so when you eat when you play that we were talking about the other day how this guy got in trouble because they have all these things in the game that you can do to people

and this guy like tide is hook her up and threw her off a cliff and shit and you could start you could do whatever you want but they were there filming this stuff and putting it on YouTube and then you two would get mad and YouTube pull them off but then people were like we'll wait a minute though why you how come you can just do it like we used to have it in the game when my dad was my age 30-40 years ago there would they would never have Anna does nothing done anything like Game of Thrones or west world ever anywhere near like it is I'm honored a good movie but I think we just stretched out the limit switch were willing to explore like really terrible and evil things for entertainment we've definitely change what we're willing to accept and where the bar is in terms of quality the bars through the roof through Mercer to the point where you can't even like you can explain what your experience

yes it look if you go and you see some great comedy from the 1990s like you see watch a Dave Chappelle Chris Rock special in the 90s that holds up 100% And I felt like it. But what I'm saying is like if that was out today it would be a 100% stand up special amazing but if you tried to put some bullshit ass 1990s TV show on on Netflix if you try to like finagle some CSI Miami CSI Miami CSI Miami CSI guest Law and Order Our willingness to explore things that are I mean Game of Thrones for example is one of the best shows ever

created to my PIN for sure but it explores some Unthinkable things awful things awful things what's the whole show is around a brother and sister fucked and then a whole family yeah yeah explore these like these things that we would never even touch upon our media the 50s 60s and the 70s we can not only that but here's the thing. So what happened why why do we go not good enough like what it was it was it me or is it like

black porn but if you watch porn okay and you watch some porn from the 1980s and then you flip through like you poor not that I would ever do that but if you did do that looked at all the different categories you doing what the fuck happened yeah like why are people why is gagging something people looking for his son is in a meeting space where we can create you can create dragons that breathes ice you can create yeah there's there's things you can be transported like listen this isn't real so I can I can do this I can have this scene of of rape or infidelity or are incest that seems is it appropriate to me only in this fantasy world

man sometimes I get down on that stuff like a blotch enough of it you just like I need a musical and Evie inspired that life is grand and that's how I feel about him and sometimes it comes across in this dude washes musicals but I do I do for a little bit of a break something wrong with it but I'm weirded out about as is natural human inclination towards progression and everything good or bad is it things just keep ramping up well before progressing with our story lines for like Humanity in a weird way in media but we're also like suppressing a lot of our we're trying to suppress through social justice a lot of the same things right well some people are but I think it's a small very vocal minority I think the reality there's the vast majority people find out about said suppression or upset by and then in the fuck you talking about this safe spaces and all this nonsense most people that hear that stuff we're going all this is just nonsense by a few like really loud activist

from my pocket as a something like his serious is hunting is cuz you're killing stuff like that's going out into the world and taking plucking something that we didn't put there taking it away but I think there's a core of what you do well and what I think I should try to do is like ask why why are we willing to why is Game of Thrones is the most watched show that's on why why why I can't get away with it because it's a it's so fictitious it's so obviously fiction you're living in this fictional world you have fictional white walkers have dragons you have people that can survive in fire the ridiculous send these parallels real life that that travel along the same path and like you don't get to choose between the dragons in the incest there at the same time I think it's

who fills a lot of like base needs but it does so in this way that's obviously false why are superhero so she would sue us if you stop and think about the number of Blockbusters that are superhero movies that are comic book movies are coming out like once every couple of months crazy that was a rare beast when I was a kiss when I was a kid if there's a Hulk movie out a jump for joy God damn Spider-Man movie when I was a kid there was a TV show and it sucked okay was a goddamn cartoon TV show Spider-Man Spider-Man does whatever a spider can spins a web panty size catches thieves just like flies the couch here comes a Spider-Man it was terrible and I used to get up early to watch it cuz I was a huge comic book me a blasted Lou Ferrigno Hulk ride Bucky I watched it that was a little bit I mean like you watch the Batman with Adam West

they came out with Superman he was like the first movies that what is a Spider-Man TV show wow that's another reason of those chips are good for paralyzed Spider-Man can shoot webs out of his hand in that wooden sticks Prine I can't do much and Spider-Man Frozen south of the year and sticks to buildings you know he's be a little harder to swing around back as I let me drop my backpack full of textbooks yeah I did to it but he's that was there was no Spider-Man movies when I was kid and there was a Superman movie and a Superman movie be at the Batman movie Batman movie came out Michael Keaton was big big success people are shocked at Michael Keaton was Batman but it worked Danny DeVito was the penguin everybody got a shot of Batman was one of those things if you were Batman you must be the guy George Clooney George Clooney as Batman Christian Bale Batman Arnold Schwarzenegger

but they got to Ben Affleck and they were at now player is not funny like that's real like the amount of people that will see you as Batman it's whether or not they really believe that they might a Christian Bale I believe that got to be Batman Michael Keaton for a longest time was Batman yes but see he started it off so that the difference between Michael Keaton is there was no one before him other than Bruce Wayne and he was the first dark real Batman I forgot about Val Kilmer I forgot about Val Kilmer god dammit Val Kilmer was fucking Batman what is House of human being Val Kilmer's he's a beast to him as Doc Holliday and what's the name of that movie that's one of the Best Westerns ever he was believable that was a straight-up murder I still the most quoted but nobody will think back on Ben Affleck as Batman

good movie yeah but there's also says there's nothing around his career that he he must feel like comment if this goes bad is going to ruin me he's done so many great things he's a very good actor don't get me wrong but

what is it about him

32 hansom know because Val Kilmer is gorgeous there is a G G Lee whatever it is whatever the fuck it is not everybody should get that kind of pussy it's just it shouldn't be on your diet it's too rich for you some people get diabetes right you need to lay off the sugar everybody's got different tolerances cake every morning Jennifer Lopez obviously besides being beautiful and having a body like some lab created super freak obviously she knows how to throw that thing she knows how to throw that thing I'm going to be hard to it would be hard to argue with that fact yeah that's some goddamn Nolan Ryan pussy

but yeah yeah together I'm not unaware of what you're talking about the fact that those things go so hard they go so hard and then they fizzle out they just you know it's like it's like having a like a pinto with a fucking Corvette ZR1 engine stuff.

Highway and there's no structure to it it's not designed those wheels are not designed for that relationship sometimes they do sometimes they work so here's my thing does Alex Rodriguez guy that she's with super athlete smashes it obviously seems to be working together for a long time months

videos of six weeks when she was with the little girl the singer that was a dancer a quick of a PSA Public Service take take a look at that man super athlete probably got a dick like a goddamn baseball bat right

he said 2 + 200 million dollar contract so he's supposed to put together a song about hunting he knows that guy knows how to keep it together right that guy knows he knows how to play When the ball's coming this way he smashes that fucking thing right cuz it's not tolerating any losses in her life she's out of the best all-around big giant that makes sense to me just like it made sense with Val Kilmer as Batman then it sounds to me like I don't know what I was relationship was with her I don't know it seemed like it was a scientist observed how do I know nobody nice but there's like some people will you need to like have an online vote to this person for Batman

the people tell you they would have voted I do not believe they would have voted for Ben I like I do not believe there's a problem like the rock too big for that man here's why does everybody like you wear the fucking batsuit is that the wrong way 696 fucking glasses I feel like you're not with giant dual the last time yeah Superman they ran out they ran out of the well the Wells High it's like if they try to make another Hulk people got enough you've had a talk it through like Han Solo the pre pre pre sequel of the captain they do that that doesn't make any sense because Harrison Ford was Han Solo when Han Solo was young

I'm here for you George Lucas is Ryback in a warm when I forgot to listen to the podcast touched all day what is like Adam yeah but as long as you don't try to make him Superman a bad guy or good guy secure 1000

took so long and it was a giant smash yet they go white people get it together no comment Ben O'Brien in the conservative world has to be careful this podcast could sink a ship from Pro Nuance World there is this speaking of conservative there's just like there's a conservative traditionalist right and there's the more Progressive folks that you have met have been around been around about the Beat Around by better more environmentalist Moore Public Lands more access right so there's going to like to of course there's always two sides of politics but there's in this case two distinct sides right and the line kind of gets drawn around 1 around guns but also lived around the environment so part of the biggest issue in in politics for a hunter angler right now please like I really like guns I like the second amendment I did what's going on there at like support that but what I also like is healthy

systems environment and I like habitat for Wildgame to live in public lands in Access well it just so happens that a lot of the A+ rated politicians for the NRA F minus or D + rated in protecting wildlife and wildlands extraction and if things like that but fix traction of minerals and oil and natural resource valuable answer accident changed the way these lands are scheduled like what would its under even as a hunter but all Americans but as a hunter on face was like I love Wildlife I love wild places clean water clean land I'm all for that that's a huge part of what I believe it but I also believe in Second Amendment I believe in my right to tell my family I believe in my right to own firearms into to do that so I believe in those two things but

because our politics are the way they are it doesn't leave room for those two beliefs when I'm at at the voting booth times normal conversations with people unless you absolutely know that the person is going to be objective and up as your shirt says Pro Nuance this the the idea that you you shouldn't be able to defend your family is where it gets crazy that doesn't get crazy that you want to be able to defend your family like why do these movies all have robberies and break-ins and bad guys will be white does a real thinks he's a real things so the idea that you should just be a Sitting Duck because there's so many crazy fucks out there that want to shoot up schools go on Massachusetts somehow or another you're being conflated with them that you're being got confused with them are categorized with them like how how is that that these are different things

involve guns they are there thinks it's like the insult that drove all those people in Toronto member that

what is that keeps happening this happened many times it seems people kill people with cars over the last few years it's been like four or five big events are mutually exclusive that's the part of the country but I also don't want people to die Jacqueline mass shooting I don't want that I want horse on the other side of the coin with when when it comes like environmental issues in around hunting public land something of that nature I want coal miners that have job I want people that work in an extraction Industries to have an option to work and live in and do what they need to do but I also want to protect our ecosystems at all costs cuz you can't replace that shit right and there's got to be other jobs out there if the government put its resources instead the propping up old ways of doing business that pollute the environment versus new ways of doing business card subsidy

healthy ways to mine copper or their way I don't know there is I mean they're responsible ways to do that but at what at what cost you're still you're still extracting Rider still doing something you're still changing the natural environment there yes some was trying to make that argument with fracking with me was talking to him about that is it Josh foxes documentary what is the he was on the podcast the something fracking Nation what was his he made it was a very good documentary and it was when I got him on the park is interesting because he seemed like he had been attacked a lot for them even misunderstood like some of the questions I was asking maybe they were coming from me and I'll send all this is just like what is it called fractionation Gaslamp that's it

it's disturbing but you're watching some aspects of it like when they were widened lighting their water on fire and then someone try to say oh yeah there's some places we've always been able to light your water on fire Hauser update with the song American tradition of lighting lighting the water on fire in fracking water smell like shit they started lighting that fire but I would think to be confident about that and I'm not confident about it but to be confident about what that guy said to me when he was saying that it was not that you would have to have done massive research you would have to have spent time there you would have to been working either directly or indirectly with a scientist that are collected data

you have to be a person who is not interested in the actual truth they just have an idea that they want to push through and this is a weird thing with certain right-wing folks there's a weird thing they want to push through that business is good and environmentalists are all pussies and hippies and Weirdos and losers and these things don't Jive in the world of someone who actually loves and appreciates the actual Earth of course man there is no way anyone could argue right there's there's been all these things become a big deal

but that you can Define access in a ton of different ways to me access all to me access could be I like Wilderness or the only way you can access it is on foot via Trailhead someone else might say access to me is elderly folks or disabled folktale and to get on into a car and drive through a road in public land or or get into an ATV and drive and so politics are being what they are politicians take this term of access to have a ground National Monument to take one side said the president of stealing your land and the other side says the president is giving back your land somebody there either both sides are full of shit or one of them is I remember when this came up Patagonia which is a giant company in the outdoors had a big ad on the internet said the presidential some of your land and then I heard we will talk about it he said this is going to paraphrase but he basically said if you say that the present

girl and you're not being careful with your words yes you're not being activity inflammatory absolutely inflammatory or talk about Grand staircase-escalante Bears ears being it in Utah being explain to people what happened so so the Securities act to protect the Antiquities Act is to protect culturally or socially but mostly culturally significant pieces of of land at all the way to the things like the Grand Canyon right it's so spend up to the end of there's a lot that I just skipped over but I'm going to spend it up to the end of the Obama Administration

President Obama used his executive power to protect large swathes millions of Acres around about brown bears ears National Monument to protect not only the significant places for Native Americans and for Native tribesmen around Bear's ears but many millions of Acres around that and so becomes the prime I have in the way that the kind of that t-shirt exist if it comes a political football throw back and forth It's not at this point in time what's best for Bear's ears what's best for that National Monument was supposed to be federally owned what's best for the people jobs the place if it comes what's best for each side and their rhetoric and so President Trump ask secretary former secretary interior Ryan zinke

to review I think was like 10 monuments to see if they should be reduced based on the protections that Obama had put put in the place so you review these 10 monuments he cuts out 8 + homes in on two places Bear's ears and Grand staircase-escalante

they then say we're going to reduce the size of these monuments when you say cuts out eight of them what do you mean by cuts out there if you are there and say they're going to go no changes necessary that as a as a strong man as a trauma and knock them over and look at those other two

they said we will reduce the area that is designated as a National Monument

and here again comes to both sides they would say because the President Obama wielded his his powers corruptly to protect to be as an environmentalist to protect land that didn't need protection of the Antiquities act into exact does say it should be the smallest acreage possible to protect so now you get into stuff that I'm not an expert in around legal jargon and going back to Things are Written in the 1930s

but we get to a point where one side saying here is a republican trying to

shrink down these monuments so that they can then go companies that are then go and least these places for mining but they can't currently doing their protections

as a National Monument the other side is saying we're trying to protect culturally significant lands and these millions of Acres need protected they need to text for lots of reasons so you end up with those two sides talking

now it's easy to sort of make a hype hyperbolic hyperbolic argument one way or the other right at your position one way or the other and it's being done that way been done that way are they drilling there now or just look let's look that up but there is some leases that were that were approved for for Bears ears I know for sure she that's one of things were people talk about the president doesn't have any real power is Congress and Senate not really they have some fucking real time is but there's no power but the bottom line is something like that

why I like to live in a sentence you can say something like that becomes it becomes a thing that it becomes a PR hit it becomes of a thing that people are thrown back there throwing Bears ears back and forth because at the end of Obama's administration he made the definition and they were they repealed it or reverse it the year later or some amount of time around a year later so it was only the way it was for a year and everybody's making it look like a government stole your land they just brought it back to exactly where it was before but they did open up the possibility which is why Obama did in the first place yes they open up the possibility for drilling and now they do resource extraction and that's what scares the shit out of people in these situations are always seems to be spin on both sides and being a part of these debates on a daily basis and being part of the same from you like to bring his information on daily basis it's tiresome get tired

I'm tired of having to hear that this value system is right or this value system is right in there's no room to be anywhere close to the center around the stuff she just get it is tiresome public lands are the only place where I look at it and say no you got to leave that to the government you got to leave it to the federal government don't don't let leave it to the states it's the only place I mean different things like with like legalization of marijuana and now they're going to legalize Scylla syban apparently in Oregon they're talking about doing that or like that leave it to the state they should be able to vote that they should be able to vote in like all the crazy laws you have weird States in some states have state taxes some states don't it's all good that's all good but when it comes to like Federal and the problem is V States get into debt and that's what people need to understand they can sell it off so the diff Utah is in debt with just I'm just not picking on you. But if they just for some reason they wind up in debt which states do all the time and then they sell off a

giant chunk of land to some oil company now you can't Camp there anymore and by the way that's your fucking lamp and not taste not just Utah that's your land you live in Arizona you live in Florida that's your land you live in Massachusetts it's yours the Blanding Utah is the whole fucking all of us the collected human race living on North America listen to this ship this is like there's a Senator Mike Lee by the great state of Utah which you rightly put that all out of these things revolve around the Utah for some reason they have a lot of the percentage of its at some in the 70% of their acreages is controlled by the federal government that's why Mormons

let me I'll take the first point you take such a guy that so Center Mike Lee comes out and says right this is like the perfect the perfect way to spend this type of thing

he starts he calls back to and Senator Orrin Hatch from Utah was also done this call back like the Sagebrush Rebellion and things like that calling back to its the saying that Wilderness is akin to the European aristocracy

because only a certain few can go there cuz you have to have two working legs that can get you off in the wilderness

part of the basis of a specie gave in his giving it several times is that public land and Wilderness specifically

is it is akin to the at the European aristocracy cuz only certain folks can go there if you would open up access cut Roadster with then it would be for everyone so then gets back to the semantics in the spin in the things that politicians put forward to try to convince you and they're still for you he's right in a certain way what is right in is that if you put roads through anybody could go through any time they wanted on a car if they had no legs if I can barely walk if they are in a wheelchair normally but they can drive a car yeah then going deep into the woods and they can enjoy all of the Wilderness I sure the gas that is true however

it's not like there's a lot of places that they can't also go to cuz they can go a lot of places they can do that you go to Yellowstone you'll damn gorgeous you just drive through that you see all the trees in the animals and he also is a wonderful proxy for going outside to what it is with out Riley being in it it's like a zoo that's free range is exactly what I live an hour from there and I'm taking my family there and it just feels like I used to feel like I'm in this is an illicit place if someone has gone into the Wilderness and and Tackle these big challenges and and hiked around in Crazy places this Yellowstone it like makes me feel uncomfortable then I had somebody said to me like it was this guy named Cody Richie has a podcast called the rich Outdoors he said to me it's like it's like it's I'm an ambassador for real Wilderness it's like a way to prevent people that this thing exist without them having to actually put strap on a pack gets of trekking poles and Hike miles up into the

this is part of the problem whenever you're talking about the Wilderness is so few people go to it it's like if we were talking about the surface of Mars for the people to create the Rover will you know how the service Mars is it comes up the wheels and I read Stephen Braddock how many people are going to Mars how many people are really going to the Wilderness more people going to the Wilderness than Mars don't give you that the public lands movement and I am definitely part of it I feel like I could probably represent the money's think better but like I'm definitely part of it it it's it's scary in a little bit a lot of ways people can say like keep it public man qpublic that's like apple pie and bald eagles in Freedom it's an idea that we all pay a new thing we all own anybody can go there it's super easy to get on that train it is really easy to get on that train and lose your critical thought around what what is the idea of wilderness I mean because

when I think of my hunting now like we first went hunting like five or six years ago you would ask me this question I would have given you a whole different and you said that I don't know what I would have said I might have said like a youngish man throwing even 3133 call you beautiful person I look at you I love you I love you too perfect complexion look at you and all of your cells are firing correctly no liver spots this whiskeys really could stop by Myrus so what do you think you would have called it then so what I probably would have said like when we first went hunting and then be together for most what I probably would have said would have been around would have been less value based in more like I do it cuz my dad did it I do it because it connects me to to my dad like my dad my family my people I do it cuz Humanity did it we talked with film the video I remember sitting on the thing we talked a lot about our Humanity right like the drawing back for the history of time when the hunter was

exalted in a tribe of the old was the only way to get me to get me so your skills that you acquire as a hunter made you import into the culture that Society the everyday life I would have probably call back to that not that I would say that's wrong now but what I've come to find out over some other years of of hunting and a lot of places that I think my hunting is more about healthy ecosystems now than it is about anything else I think all of my efforts should be around clean water clean air places that we can go and explore and what that brings to our world that brings more Wildlife that brings places for my son to go and experience these things and so I changed over this very short time and the way that I do it well the more you experience the Wilderness than go back to the city and then go back to Wellness the more you realize how special it is out there and them all the more you realize when like today

when flying a helicopter over LA with me good friend Bill Burr and as you was taking me up I was looking at all this development were talking about all these apartment complexes that are being developed and he's like yeah you can you really see it when you're up here in the air because you see where there was nothing and then a couple weeks later it'll be flattened out in a couple weeks later they start construction this is how it spreads and that this is just something that people do and if you don't put a put a line you know draw line we're going to keep going I'm going to make our way across the country never heard that argument from people that don't go to Wilderness like Luke how much of the unit we don't overpopulated look how much of the United States has no one living in it fly over all the places that don't have cities and don't ever roads don't have houses like yeah yeah for now, she was your 200 years ago thats ground to Blackhorn so you can have the things you have flyover in 1819

100 200 years ago it was nothing here it was 0-0 think there's some them suspected and I think a honey has a lot going for it around the fact that has urbanization happens you know his jobs being for me like as Jobs become more prevalent in urban places in people have to travel from wherever they're growing up to to these Urban places in live so removed from Wilderness so removed from sustainability I think for a long time does hunting Pizza in 1982 there like 17.5 million Hunters around that year

because Ronald Reagan president for the post-world War II there was a rising in the modern Hunter Mountain sport hunter have even survived it there's there's this rise in 1982 and then at the precipitous fall right from there until 26 there's around 11 million hunters in this country it's a drop the big drop I'll always say that like the three things that I think happened or organization so people are getting removed from their getting moved away from having hunting in their lives on a daily basis not there anti-hunting in any way that just getting removed from from that thing and then getting your meat on your own they remove from that now that's how do you remove my gardening and other types of show are sustainable use thinks the other thing is Disney like

Walt Disney's a nice man but Bambi was not a good thing for our Collective psyche around hunting. Just Bambi but essentially all cartoons involving animals to animals who your friends even Predator like Yogi was your friend who is your friend that you were tied it is a check and attack recently he was caught poaching in Missouri and the judge said that he had to watch Bambi once a month during his entire sentence

why did you find that that is real that just needs a reality show poaching ring or something I read this movie over here it is deer poacher sends to watch Bambi every month during the year Missouri jail killed hundreds of deer sometimes taking over their heads and leaving the restaurant in field you keep that guy in jail for more than a year

serious looking them David Berry Jr

fucking dork has been ordered to watch a man if that guy was killing him because he was poor eating deer and that's how he made his you know that's how he got food that's not the case I don't care just fuck fuck anybody who does that anyway fuck anybody just want to shoot something is damn Delicious and massive is a deer a deer could feed a family for months to understand why this ass whole household who shot this fucking thing forward to eating deer and you shot it and you that kind of treatment of animals has been something that's hurt honey and his Hunters have hurt themselves like that guy like maybe that's not nice

nothing illegal is trespassing laws that is not the safest yeah but you camping at a company picnic is not a comedian yes same thing I got it is a piece of shit is that's just like everything else man there's people that are good hoober drivers and there's some little try to pull you under a bridge and fuck your mouth but this is bad people that there is there is there a time like I always bring up with hunting it's is like somebody kill the giraffe or somebody a guy killed the family that owns made I saw that not good not good at fucking primate bro I mean is nothing good about that everybody while online

the credit that would give the guy who put it online the Idaho Statesman or whatever the Idaho Local Natives like recapping in Africa like here's all the things I did and he the guy and I got a lot of mutual friends with him so he's a good guy or you just screwed up made a bad choice is a tough sell I would say so too but like if I put this off to spit up after every month for the reality of baboons and I have studied the work of Robert sapolsky yes who's the guy who's been on the podcast before and it's it's really pretty amazing stuff what they found out about baboons he studied actually because he actually

the baboon tribe that the alpha males died off they were all eating out of a poison Garbage Patch there was a garbage patch that sick food in it just bad food and the alpha males got to eat first I always keep Chase ever. They want of dying off and for more than one generation he was several Generations they became like really peaceful and calm and they weren't the vicious violent baboons that are the norm and that it is if you Google it suppossed Keys studies baboons and I-10 Radiolab also had a podcast about it would swear I first heard about it and then I read what sapolsky wrote about it but it is unbelievably fast and he chose how you can have this insane violence animal culture and then they'd the kontz get removed and when the cons get removed everybody chills the fuck out it's really really quite fascinating but

baboons for the most part Me Maybe he shot the nicest problems ever for the most part they're a bunch of baby and cont and they'll steal your fucking kid that was a two year old that you love so dearly that would be on a porch somewhere in those baboons around they'll snatch him and his head after one time my life both said write the structures like there's a professional Hunter what's essentially your guide and then there's trackers which are usually made of folks that that help track in the games by the end of things like that but our rph shoot it say we have a we have lots of irrigation here to maintain this Ranch and they rip it up and their DM bracely terrorists around you know come around or can't mess with our fires messing with our food

what do you see when she want the instruction that I got and I never never did but you know given that instruction from somebody like that like hey this is a good thing for our landscape going to do it now that's very far removed from stacking them up with a big smile on your face hole in a bow

is the definition of baby or some babies like a whole family feud you can't they don't stay in one place hunt and then

you know like I'm going to shoot some baboons I mean it's a good thing for this I don't tell anybody yeah you certainly don't take a photo of you posing with an entire family of deceased primate I had a friend who was in Africa and he got attacked by Bubba boo baboon steals food now I forgot what the context of it was

quite a few years ago but he said it was spooky he said they don't seem like a a monkey and they don't seem like they seem like a dog monkey but like it's a little while when they open their mouths yes it's like a dog mouth like if you really like to show a baboon baboon but they have a long stretched-out mouth like a wolf or something it's not what's like a werewolf it's not like a regular person to have all these characteristics of primates but then they have this extra weirdness to them as his wildness tune to be does not come down to look at that that's like part

look at that face that lion that baboon black even the shape of the jaw it's very dog like that very long gated and and and dog like they're very Stitz a very strange animal look at that face and my friend said the story was quite a long time with some food and snarled at Amanda and snatch something from him but he said it was very scary he said and you know it wasn't even that big would like 60 70 pounds or something like that he said but it's the fuck you up there not will you know how do we use Hunters who are around these animals all the time and shit how do we learn something happens when he gets mad about this guy killing all these these baboons what do we say

when there's a hunting Scandal that one go so I'm pretty big and there's there's invariably these things happen where

how come that didn't go as big as Cecil stop and think about that because to me it's more it's more kind of funk. It's more egregious then the Cecil thing was an it's a normal thing I just think bright Cecil came at a time where there was more sensitivity to it and it just had a new cycle like Trump the Trump new cycle probably dominates any other reason why I say that I don't think you should just go over there and shoot lines but people been doing it forever I'll give you ask me how many people go over there to hunt baboons if that really is that normal thing it doesn't seem normal right like even though I don't have this conversation many times on this podcast I don't think you should shoot things that you don't eat unless there's a need in terms of like some sort of an imbalance like just as a joke imagine if Eagles were like rats

they were everywhere there's a reason why you could just kill rats because you have to okay this is what overpopulation looks like you put a trap in your fucking garage and you smash the head of this living creature and you're happy almost all things are categorized as rodents you do that to really right like squirrels a cute adorable squirrels in your garage and you can set traps and get him out of there if you would but it's a different thing like you would feel bad stomp one probably I wouldn't you stop a rat like you saw a rat in kids room you fucking stop that thing to death twice right when your kids are overpopulated and because traditionally there been carries a plague the real real story about the black plague is not just at the rapper tiny but in fact that the ticks and the was it ticks or fleas

that were on the rats recurring the black plague I want to say it's fleas and that this is how the Bubonic plague. Spread it gets bred actually in fact of the texts that were carried by the rat so it is please please thank you Jamie School search the the differences that squirrels are not overpopulated and that Raptors are killing them off like left and right into a primary source of food for a lot of these flying Raptors Eagles and Hawks and stuff like that I'm sure a lot of other things eat them too but there were enough balance out there but rats rats lock in the ass mean they lived without us for a long time but once it down. So I can look at this shit motherfuckers have holes in their ground you can live under the houses you just stay put garbage out every day is Kojak there garbage you have plenty of food this is great all types of animals very differently right now apply our own

specific feelings about these animals to them like the bear with the name doesn't know that has a name with a wolf with a name doesn't know it has a name it is not aware that we've applied to a special meaning to it it doesn't know that I still are our application of our feelings Ann Arbor like engendering this doesn't change the nature of the wall for the bear it will rip your face off it will kill as many elk as it can what is a real problem in depicting them the anthropomorphisation of animals to picks them as your friends and that's a hard thing to shake does not there bad and this is where the real problem with someone going around shooting baboons and posing like you did a great thing is it's not that these animals are bad they should be respected and understood and appreciated now you are a part of a baboon clean up crew like if you're blind I was listening to rinella podcast today and they were talking about kangaroos in Australia and that there was a guy on

show that he killed somewhere near was like seven thousand thousand like his dad just whacking at nausea thousands of kangaroos and that they have to do this cuz they don't have any natural predators and they still just devastate Landscapes and we played videos of you find one real quick if you play we get kicked off YouTube probably right there's a video of like a swarm of kangaroos in Australia I had no idea reading about it about overpopulation I had no idea lb Locust that's what it's like I want that the kids get me out of there this is nothing this ain't this ain't shit and comparison this is a case of pretty but we were watching One when there was a swarm run

running across a field likely that bro that's rats come on man if you saw that many rats in a field you would go I am going to go get my gun and I'm going to kill these fucking rats right you wouldn't tolerate that but is it like the endangered species has come then play here in a weird way because is are caring for Animals dictated by the number of the animal that there is it isn't an is see it's not for us Sprite we're over here in the valley of Southern California have a good old time me buddy Ben O'Brien young Jamie have a wonderful it's air-conditioned we live a good life here is your Australia you're killing us about let me tell you the first take me to New Zealand it took me to a sheep station is the ranch we haunted fallow deer their weave there are deer everywhere

on the way out we met a guy then we call him the rabbit man or like he he looks like a superhero he was riding on like it's just a 2 stroke bike with like a rabbit hide covers for the handles that a helmet on it was like a superhero like a leather jacket he was riding around his job was to ride around and shoot rabbits all night long every day 7 days a week he had killed millions of rabbits millions and millions and he would log log number Ramsey killed they weren't eating these rabbits it was population control he's digging under fences these rabbits were destroying the landscape they couldn't run sheep that the land was invaluable because he's rabbit or it's it's almost like turn of the century America we had some of the same situation but we met this guy whose job it was to with impunity kills many rabbits as he possibly could a rabbit invasive species down there

because this is New Zealand in most there's almost everything almost everything is is not native See Spot that's good for one of my favorite spots I could be really your love rabbits were introduced Australian 1800 okay but what about New Zealand

Jamie not paying attention we never did get too deep into invasive species and number introduced rabbit European rabbit everything in New Zealand was introduced in New Zealand really needs to kill these adorable rabbits and we put it in this little cute cage and when I want to come out and be held at it did put slow pause on Tuesday did it it makes noise you open the cage up take the rabbit out yeah but the delicious can't go out and fucked

this is not this might be a smart guy but he don't have it he was talking about three types of hunting therapeutic nested bird probably another is how many squirrels kill birds they kill and eat birds but that's a big part of the decimation of the population of certain bird species is attributed to squirrels eats fucking mice he's a murderer that's crazy that little thing eat a mouse that's about what's a rat it's eating a rat that's like his size this phone is even think I believe so I'm feelin murder native to New Zealand or just Australia that's

Australia right that's the Tasmanian Tiger North America okay got over here distinguish by I was at he's a weasel have a larger size and longer tail with a prominent black tips kind of weasel with carnivorous is it a funny that weasels are thought to be like little bitches out of the weasel we lit on his back and what is he doing that kills rabbit cuz that's how he's killing

there is all artists who is chasing a rabbit that's insane what a little ruthless motherfucker don't show it but we'll talk it through so we we should we do the play-by-play Light No Doubt life really is 10 times the size of these cherries real right now try to stop them is like Captain save-a-ho over there that's a thing up and get this stoked man is how crazy she doesn't try the rabbits that are really close to him

on that goes where's it going is it going like so he's probably going to ask to get some Shock and some blood loss is going to pull down with a little blood loss and you know he's going to tell her I was just going to look away pussy we're not friends spending to help your friend but a little monster that is so greasy that is so crazy but he's got his teeth like behind the ears of his rabbit he's killing it by biting the back of his neck and he literally is 10 times smaller than it does it keep BBC fucking dorks help your friend that's why you going to go extinct you cunt

fucking asshole you have big teeth how are you turn on a bitch turn them a bite him in the neck pussy as a t o a t know but you would be Stout Stout never seen one of those before my time outside her know that should be the American animal not an eagle in Ireland and everywhere else they're called short-tailed weasels so it's so kind of weasel wheat so you think about like Pauly Shore

I was taken down giant pitches like huge the weasel is chasing her I was kind of cute like he was just found it along the door adorable adorable he would run by he would run by the other end about this rabbit this evenings up like we were a guy on their name Brandy Newburgh you know about ethics and life Oaks Road in and they said

obviously everything about this is it's an animal's wounded

and your say you're up in a tree stand or your hunting you know spot and stalk or you've been in the case of Randy hunting over a water hole if you're doing that in it in your Hunter you hold a tag you can choose which animal you'd like to kill all right since you have a buck or doe a male or female tag what are you can choose which one he want to kill if an animal comes by you that has been wounded clearly been wanted clearly struggling in the case of Randy Newberg he was sitting on the water hole and I believe you was in Arizona and it with a trophy tag with means there was a lot of big mule deer walking around allowed to eat cantaloupe walking around in that situation Pronghorn Blitz explain to people that are listening to don't know we're talking about what would it when he says a trophy tag what he means is there's some units that are designated as trophy Ariens doesn't mean you don't eat them at the animal what it does mean is that it's a it's a very difficult to get into this area you have to have a certain amount of points which means you're putting in

to the pool of money that is for conservation for Habitat protection all you putting in every year to try to get a tag and you can only get a tag in the lobbies places once a lifetime for some places dance version of big mature animal so that this you can't just let anybody go and let us some places that are called over the counter over-the-counter unit is is they know that there's a large healthy population of animals and they either the wildlife biologist in the state representative choose to just let anybody go in and when they think that the animals are diminishing too much then they put a cap on it but for now it over the counter unit yes and then they have places that are very difficult to draw units is difficult to draw units is one of the places where Randy Newberg was because he was looking for a big old mature

animal did it spread its genetic stuffed animal in once in a lifetime it takes so many many years to draw I think she's a little hard to get area once in a lifetime hunt where you are looking for the most unique animal that you can find the most mature animal that you can find but along the way water hauling is limping to the point where he thinks I owe a lot of hunters I have this tag I've waited a long time to get it it's a very unique tag courses the way you explained it

would I know if I can eat this and I'll just the same as I would any other one but I'd be noted to exercise some mercy around this Antelope that's clearly suffering clearly injured who knows how it got injured to living up to a water hole he's he's having his ethical pain during his head like should I dispatch this thing and end its suffering film I tag this way cuz what were the tag and then as you have a tag you can then choose to do anything you want with it in the legal bounce you didn't ruin this animal so you could let that animal pass and choose a larger more mature more impressive and you let nature take its course weather up predation or not in the case of this one but winter kill or something may take that animal or you can and it's quote on quote suffering you don't know we can talk to me in Alaska get its opinion but you can and what looks like it's suffering and fill your tag in that way that's not the way normal haunts play out but a lot of hunters are put in that situation that ethical situation was pretty

rare put a can have to have what was your answer so the answer is no animals come by ya so no animals come by just by Fate you don't get an animal so you spend seven days out there in the wilderness and you you come home empty-handed you don't get to eat an antelope or you're presented with this opportunity to be merciful to take this animal out that's injured and you get to keep an antelope and although it's not the antelope that you dreamed of something that would have still healthy meal and you get to feel good the fact that you really did you put an animal out of its misery and we all like Mercy is a virtue would like to be a nice addition in Randy can we talk to her but I said that that this is it a unique situation to a hunter if you're a hiker and you come across an animal wound it in this way or injured in this way there's very little you can do

yeah but this is unique to the hunters responsibility

to look at this animal and make this decision here's another argument another argument as you really should do nothing because those the animals that are designated to be taken out by the Predators and you want to keep the Predator popular black healthy for my answers Randy's answered like we went back and forth course and I see both sides too and I think this that's one of those situations where as a hunter there's a you know I'll go back there's another podcast to do with a guy named Deshawn smetana and he says it's his real name he's famous Sean's Montana is the doping individual item wonderful him better be with that name he lives up there in the 49 he likes it up ice fire like let me say that I sit by a fire and it's because we're handmade boots or she tells Joe fuck out of here what you think he's wearing if you would make his own moccasins the most interesting man in the world

we drink plum brandy that He makes himself course it does really hope he makes his own honey he has Icelandic sheep that he cheers me to does asada he kill the landlord won't feed everyone aside wonderful human being he grew up in Czechoslovakia part of his describing his his growing up is like there's a term and I'll I'll butcher the pronunciation of it but Mick Lubbock is the term used to describe a hunter is like Hunter or the one who thinks and the way he described it the culture is the cultural significance of a hunter and his and he's going up in the late eighties and then Czechoslovakia was that the hunter had to be was the was the judge and jury so there was like a reverence around hunting irreverence around a hundred because that Hunter got the privilege in in his culture to be the judge and jury for what animal gets taken out of the herd

like making that very serious decision to say this animal is wounded this animal is too old to say animals young enough right you talked about a lot on this podcast with very odd some other smart Hunters that I think what hunting needs to become now that it isn't is this exalted status in our society where we're at we're giving somebody with a hunting tag or hunting license for giving some of the opportunity to make a decision about something for life

how do you say exalted status of promise you don't have to earn that stats right it's like right you just go out and do it and one of the things that I've found out about hunting that is surprising but it's it's very difficult to express

without personal experience is that the consequence of it's so different than what you would think it's very difficult to do it's very physically exhausting the consequences of your actions are so grave in the rewards are so much different than any other way of acquiring food even fishing which I love I love fishing I love fish I like to eat them they're delicious delicious I catch him there fun I like catching fish something saying there's something that we in and I don't think this is a learned thing I think there is a there's a connection to do difficult to acquire mammals that goes deep in our DNA and I think this is the reason why we are the reasons why we enjoy fishing is because those reward systems were put in place by people that survived by eating fish bites all those generations of people that did catch fish and that was how they ate that day that excitement lives inside of you and Spark

set up when you get a big steelhead on the line

cuz you're being formed didn't have a choice even though it's Recreation to you it's a thrilling Recreation but then the consequences on his grave there's something about a wounded deer or wounded elk that is so horrific and a merciful killing that is so it's so such a relief

it's there's something powerful about it like I told you I I shot that elk yeah but that it's out there that he walked four yards and I'm not exaggerating 4 yards and fell over it was dead like that like the guys were there they said it was quicker than any rifle shot dead ever seen enough time so that they usually stand up longer from that that's what everybody wants our safety wanted they want to do and they do but why can't you finish and I pull them out of the water and throw him on the ice and it's flopping around for a few hours I'm just happy I got them it's different well they'd like you had Michael Pollan on the shower before he wrote that Omnivore's Dilemma and then it in it he was just said basically in a paraphrasing but he said it honey is so different from the inside this from the outside so easy to view honey in the lens like there's a dude sitting behind a dead deer smiling and grabbing its antlers this also the problem that malnutrition is country is almost non-existent

fat people are poor people in this country is fucked by poor people are fat which is one of the weirdest things about our society this is never heard this is never happened in the history of human beings that the poor people with a big fat one that got cell phones mean there's a lot of rich people are fat to don't get me wrong but there's people don't have a problem being fat and this doesn't mean that does not a lot of attrition the most certainly is but it's nutrition and it's not this not a lack of calories lack of calories was a massive problem throughout most of human history the lack lack of food so it's the the access to food is so normal to us it's so easy for the unfettered access to food is what's really normal now fast food fast food is processed food is fuck yeah if you go back to when people went hunting was more normal in the 1920s or the 1930s was why was really Noir

there's also no fast food so when you would get a roast even if you went to a butcher and you got a roast and you brought it home and you're making roast beef when you're cooking it or your uncle shot a deer like he was supposed to say milk was delivered to your door not my dad you know so there's a lot of different it is raw from the actual process that Hunters go through but actually might not have been wrong when do they start pasteurizing homogenisation Louis pastuer get the milk on your door and glass jars did that milk go bad quick though but that's me. My grandparents that's what they would describe

I wonder if it was you think about like Market honey we always talked about in the hunting like the turn of the century being is huge moment and hunting conservation Market hunting really became a thing when when accelerating when Refrigeration became reality and accelerator when railroads could take me from the Great American West back to the cities in the east coast who sings like accelerate at technology nursing accelerated Market hunting and the deprivation of things like a whitetail deer and then the Buffalo as we all the same as we were just trying to flavor this in the context of most people that the Hughes conversations don't really know what we're talking about you you're obviously well-versed in this but for a lot of folks they don't understand that what would happen was after the Civil War in particular there's a lot of soldiers they weren't fighting anymore in the war and they got jobs as hunters and they would just go out with no rules and shoe

as many animals as they wanted all that is Market hunting and their own means that they're out hunting for marketing the meat or marking the hides of marking parts of the animal for the time new chip Buffalo's for just a tongue yeah so it is that time in art at the turn of the century 1882 Century we had mass mass killings of people just think of Buffalo really but whitetail deer mallard duck wild turkey Elk elk blackbear blackbear Jesus Christ yes this is what we're looking at a photograph of summoning fucking animals just hanging from the docks they're mostly die

don't see nothing yet but there's there's nothing Easter eggs like there's those are all ducks

so there's no but they decimated massive quantities of these Wild game out here today than when Christopher Columbus landed on this continent at the time you have to turn of the century went at the height of the bar County crisis in this country there were there enough there enough whitetail deer that they they probably would have been on the endangered species list or been close and so the model of conservation that we've been enacted I don't want to say like I want to overexert ass people never heard of it but if you look at the if you look up Jamie the North American model of wildlife conservation

there was there was a ton of key figures in taking what America had that point which was basically the wild west or animals are dying at math and with with railroads and Refrigeration like we said there then feeding and clothing at that time the mass isn't in the urban settings on New York different places but as as the centuries turned over in did you get into the the the teens and twenties guys like Teddy Roosevelt different penis shapes are there was a bunch of figures who essentially kicked off what is America's conservation movement the movement can serve not only the wildlife populations but wildlands and wild waters in significant places country that we need to protect

because around the turn of the century we did not have that feeling of value as decided it wasn't like we have to go value that thing we've never seen cuz you could ever see it and so we they were they went they said about building a value structure for not only Wildlife but wild places and they also said about a way that the user would pay for this conservation of the constructs of what we now know to be the North American model of wildlife conservation

which way this is it if you look at it today it's like one of the most successful in like the Seminole systems of of conservation in the world in the world it wasn't really codified until the 80s for guys like Larry's doctor Valerius Geist and Shane Mahoney and folks wrote it down and said this is what it is but pull it if you could pull up the tenants of the North American model cuz I could list them off but North American model of wildlife conservation Wildlife as public trust resources elimination of markets for game like that's what people say hey where can I buy some milk you can't you can buy it at what's the weather in miles does a public trust that just basically means the state's hold the wildlife in trust for the public these animals belong to US state holds them in trust in man is them in dangerous for us now for people that have a problem that as an idea that we would own a living thing the only reason for that is to protect those living thing

I understand I on semantics that you would have issue with any humans shouldn't own life matter what it's like manage and cohabitate with maybe that's a better word for this by being bite looks whether we protect them or whether we decimate them right we we are the stewards of the land that we are the monkeys with the guns you have the ability to say here is this number of animals hears Us number of land here's here's how we encourage pain that land right let's study that make sure that's all good and then let's manage it as actively manages as hunters and Anglers to make sure the carrying capacity of this land meets the wildlife populations everything is working in or is it sustainable use natural resource hey dude what's haunting you say hunting in the North American model is the sustainable use of a natural resource yes to eat

elimination of markets for game we recovered. None of these animals that were talking about whether you're eating black bear or whether you eating deer you can I buy that stuff and you buy it you're going to get raised farm-raised meat and most of it is from New Zealand allocation of wildlife by law right there's laws right there's a the law to say how many animals you can kill if you it just like that fell in Missouri that's got to watch band me if you kill more than it was kill your poster now you've broken the law and the law is dictated and most really good States like Montana by wildlife biologist conservationists and people that understand the population what's a healthy population for the area and how how to maintain a correct balance and there's a real science to that folks yep you're the science of when you talk in Wildlife biologists about this this I mean we had a great podcast with Doug Duren and Brian love

my fucking can't remember my shity brain but we we were talking about CWD chronic wasting disease is spread of it amongst wild animals and then just Richards Brian Richards shot up Brian Richards and the Powell Doctrine but what we talked about was the actual science behind this one particular should but you grow to appreciate when you hear someone like him talk the grid appreciate the complex nature of wildlife biology and maintaining the populations of animals keeping keeping them healthy and making sure that these habitats are preserved this is very complicated stuff so it's it's it's impossible to really understand the scope of these like you take the steak Wyoming or Montana we tended cordon off things are really care about us

Wildlife managers are looking at is a sec Pi Diversity Health of all my life populations predator-prey balance so we set about in this bottle of conservation to say like we're not just by license by license we are using science and biology to dictate the way in which hunting is used to benefit the populace Packaging

Jim egeland porn Wildlife can only be killed for a legitimate purpose so I kind of says it all right it does but that what is that mean Is Where It gets weird with people like here's what I think is wrong with people get really crazy then get really crazy when you kill predators

even if you can eat them like I was looking at Adam green trees page and Adam Greentree shot a cougar a mountain lion he has not he's going to be here and we're going to get together and cook some mount my back out here till it's delicious I've never had you have I haven't had it like that I've shot but someone else prepared how do you say you hear tell but you have had I have had it in his delicious are you being Coy I'm not being Coy I hear text I like the sound folksy so people but no one else that is superb it's it's it's it's like lean and delicate in it it's like pork almost it's really good and then people will go crazy like why you doing that we do you understand how fucked it is that you have zero problem with someone killing a deer

but you have a problem something about mine and this is a real as if you have a problem with someone killing something that will fucking for sure kill you if it catches you along the forest fucking for sure kill your dog for sure kill your kids definitely kill those cute little deer I chill a shitload of them till like one every couple of days for its entire life and wherever they're experts at it and for whatever reason we get in our head that if and I think this comes from this whole idea of trophy hunting that if you kill something like that you're only killing that thing because you have a little dick and it doesn't work if you want to be a big man to kill this thing that's better than you and you ruin this beautiful animal is the narrative that's been pushed through all the channels they don't unless they go out and research this stuff objectively independent why would you they can't just let it wont. Let's be Devil's Advocate

would you have an accountant what do I want to look into the subtleties of predator hunting why why do I want to talk about that like to shoot mountain lions dogs oh wow Curry guy beer that's so unfair talk verbally can we talk for a minute about baiting Bears went hunting for Bears paid for

and so I've heard a lot of Wheaton hunting have it turned fairchase which means legitimate you no reason for the ability for the answer to escape your hunting the animal in all fairness in the people beat beat up on baited bear hunting a lot probably because bears are involved probably because it seems unfair

to sit in a chair

and put out some donuts or put out some a dead Beaver put out whatever in attracts a bear

put a smell out into the forest the bear smells it comes to eat and you're there to kill it that seems like what lazy seems like this is a lot of cheating cheating so people would say that's not fair Chase that's not ethical right and in some ways I agree with that in comparison to other ways of hunting right but at the same time I can say I can tell you this there's no more ethical if the idea is to kill the animal kill the right animal specially in in bear hunting you're trying to kill specific bore a male bear that is older pass breeding

anybody's bear hunted will tell you one of the hardest things to judge on it's on wireless living is a bear whether it's a male or female how big it is how old it is they are hard to judge cuz they're black. They slide you the forest snow markers like if the bear is standing next to a Volkswagen Bug okay I know how big a bug that's right now how big the Bears that's right to bear is Nexus entry that's a hundred yards away you really can't tell it's hard so spotting and stalking what we call spotting and stocking which is like walking around trying to find a bear looking at a Faraway Inn close enough to kill it whether it's with a rifle or bow

there's a lot of problems with what seems to be a fair way to it to achieve the pursuit of that animal there's a ton of problems around that because they're hard to judge you can come up on a Sal female bear that has Cubs in a bush he's not see the Cubs not know that it's a sow your Faraway the rifle you crack you kill it to Covenant of the Bush that is not what you were trying to do you made a mistake there in the scenario where you are date site is animal comes in its walking around very close to where you are you get to judge it you get to look between its legs see if it has a dick or not

and then just determined is the animal you want to dispatch and dispatch it ethically cuz it's closer to use 20 or it's stabilized a lot of times it doesn't know hopefully doesn't know you're there rather than doing it from further wider having a stock close to it so I can say all this to say like this is complexed what you think might be fair Chase what do you think you might want to apply your own levels fairness to doesn't always equal the reality of pursuing that animal at the end game is to dispatch it fairly and kill it fairly bears are very unique animal in there. There's so much more criticism because of teddy bears and Yogi and fucking Coca-Cola commercials we have this idea what a bear as it's also the the thing is this is hard for people to accept those old boards that were trying to kill their if you kill them it's better for the whole population of theirs because they eat

this is where it gets really fucked up and you know it's my friend Jonathan who is you met John and Jenn course we're up there with him Jonathan their son saw one of the bears kill and start consuming a cub female scared the bear off and then ate her own kid on Kodiak Island with he's seen barely seen male Bears chase down south run them into a cave rip and his wife and spit them out like yeah y'all want you seen that your your you know no matter how many bear cartoons we show no matter how many times a bear has to spend his own in his talking to it doesn't change no matter how many times we name a bear it doesn't change the baroness of the animal that doesn't change its but it's primed like an animal to different kind of animal so there's nothing we can do

bear being a bear I don't think there's any evidence that they don't eat their own kids either I don't think there is right there killing those two they're killing as many as they can to get this out of come back at Heat doing now and they're also doing it for food they eat them and they also try to bring the South back in the Astro so you think that this before like the hunters are in a specific you know are in a really interesting position to have seen to see these things and be intimate with these animals which is it if you just explain what you explained to most people they would just snap it back like what they're cannibals 100% of them are cannibals

it is it's this I think what non-owners want from Hunters is his to once a listen this is a complex thing that we're doing right we're going into a wild place in removing from it's something we didn't put their pop that serious but that's not that we should be nonchalant about that we shouldn't celebrate it in ways that make it seem irreverent like that that we should we should understand it's serious and take that action seriously we should be in again that guy do Sean

he was explaining it in Czechoslovakia to go hunting you had to go take a class and learn flora and fauna and learn how many pheasant eggs are in a in a nest and Hunter in the term that that they described it then you had to like it was the amount of work you put into the forest that denoted what you could then hunt you know so if you went to cut down this many trees you can go Hannah dear if you only did one certain thing you can hunt a rabbit like they had this hell yeah he describes it as it's like interaction with so that was there any consideration model accountability that's why I think what most not Hunters want from Hunters cuz for me I don't think about anti-hunters as much as I think about somebody who just is smart thoughtful has never been you were this way at some point sure you're like a person who really thought hard about what you were eating and wanted to explore

what is happening here and it is is there alternative ways so I think what an honors want from Hunters is is for us to say listen we get its komplex we get it too serious thing and we're doing our best to unpack

they did moral and ethical entanglements in what we do and it's it's not easy when we flush pheasants when we could shoot him in the ground

and that's the way we do what we call that fair Chase

but we don't like when an animal comes close enough to us and eats the Coronet we can shoot it like we don't like that either so these these things are just entangled there it's hard to It's A Hard activity to to reckon with while debating part of it is is it it's it's absolutely not as good as somebody who likes the Nuance of this and likes to explore this and likes to ask why why why is it that that's the case why is do we look down on people that that bait animals in Ford use dogs dogs the same old same reason they close up after a shot on the difficult to pursue an animal but again I buy would hope that everybody listen to this lots of people do the don't hunt that they would they would ask themselves like what do I what do I expect from Hunters like what is the thing that I expect you to do to earn cuz I very much feels a hundred

the respect of the 900 I have a duty to my Hunting Community to actively earn the respect of every night Hunter I run into I feel like I do and maybe I maybe I'm just making it harder for myself but I feel like there's some was impossible task but you probably done and I've done it on a one-to-one level yeah but I definitely flip people

especially easy your it's much easier when they eat me eat me to make sense but then they'll still have a problem with the bear thing in the bear thing is when you get upset him down with like I don't I don't prefer to hunt bears I don't believe in anyway cuz I I don't I get weirded out about trichinosis that it's just the meat is not as good to me it's good it's great you eat have a nice roast or are bear stir fry some but it is delicious is how you spit it out but it's not also be like yeah you can't even have it medium rare which is the best way to eat meat that's so it's not the same to me but if I lived like in Alberta or John and Jen live I would realize it's imperative you have to do and if you do like tea tell if you do like to eat deer and if you do like to eat moose is really responsibility not fair because they kill 50% of all the Moose calves calves and the deer fawns 50% get killed by black bear now here's the other

think you could say well that's because Nature has bounced and the reason why they're there is so those fucking deer don't look at those kangaroo in that Park and that's true too that's true to the right and I think it's our job to not have any sort of bias when it comes to our examination of this information with it's flattering or not we we have to be able to look at this objectively we don't have to and you have to be honest and I think this is you have to address the complexity you have to realize that this is very complex but guess what fuck face if you wear a leather shoes you got leather clothes you got a leather interior in your car eating cheeseburgers you should probably shut the fuk up and yes but the reality of the situation for me is like I've tried to not stray away from but try to add on to the pragmatic argues for hunting to try to examine like the emotional

we have around caring for the single animal ever caring for the entire species of of that animal or didn't any taste subspecies of the down like that that's me something I've tried to add on like let's first start with pragmatic argument like you're fucking kill them things like why aren't you singing this hard as I'm thinking about this and I really would love to build a bridge with people to say I care like if you're in a place that you're an anti hunt and you love animal your V and you rent me a lot of conversation R&B and I'm a v i really care about animals are sentient beings they all deserve life

put that person in front of me and then I'll stand right beside them and be like I fucking agree with you I agree that all animals are sentient beings I agree that they all deserve life not Adam and then I go to preserve that like for that animal that's what I go to do we start me and that anti Hunter I'm a Hunter start at the same point then over the years sort of sword at its you want to eat animals I do so that eliminates you from their side

but that's it's only yes cuz your diet but you're an animal consuming machine this person is anal cartoon machine they're just not admitting it they just don't understand is I don't understand meme machine because they don't organically Garden yesterday organza Garden to need everything that they grow themselves even then it's hard to detach yourself in their consumption of the world like what's what's in your compost bro who makes it easier for you let's just leave the beginning of the conversation say the nine Hunter is like I don't kill myself and I care about him I'm like I care about him and I kill him we're at the same like if you remove the second part of the sentence the first part is I care about we both care about animals are standing at one point in overtime whether it's mass media or just the way it honey has been marketed in the in the poor PR agent that we had we kind of walked away from each other or have you started with we both care about animals we've kind of walked away from each other

over time we've been unwilling to turn around and face each other and be like member when we started out thinking we all value these animals we value their lives we all care about them hunting is just a version our version and it's worked giving them out of conservation we were talking about it's worked for the whitetail deer in the mallard duck worked there's more than ever

I'm just doing it a different way than than you've chosen to do it I'm doing it in a more proactive way then use chosen because think about it and so I would if a v give me a list of man third we have more similarities in my opinion the major differences we have just chosen the difference the one big fat thing that's different is any difference though it's the most important difference you want to kill me someday don't think you should be allowed to they don't think it's right they don't think it's immoral they don't think it's an ethical they don't like just think everything is wrong what you doing can't believe that I care about people do I just like to eat them being great I'm going to be president but I'll need five people week I don't know we had a lot of people say I really love people but I like to eat them the people don't eat them animals

I would say I'm telling you that bike by Taking Lives of these few animals I'm working on the full the full breadth of day will tell you if you really cared you just donate the money to donate the money to conservation fuck the pittman-robertson act just I'm still feeling my family I'm still making myself a better person I'm selling Richie my fucking life so don't tell me I don't have the right to do that because you think they're sentient you're still killing animals by driving on the roads and eating corn and doing things you're doing right but they're not directly killing them by their food choices will they don't know they are killing is better than than actual killing consciously right okay actual consciously killing or buying something that's actually consciously killed is different than if you by Slick if you buy soy if you eat tofu there is a fact and that fact is there has to be a lot of animal displacement in order to make that amount of field available to grow soy in it

free to grow soybeans in just a fact and then when you talk to anybody that's ever seen what happens when a crop gets hit by combine and then the vulture start flying overhead there's a reason cuz there's a bunch of little fucking squirrels and rabbits and all sorts of shit just got ground-up and anything else it gets stuck in that field as those gigantic machines come wearing bind that's what that's how and when you talk about large-scale agriculture that's how things are harvested then I plucked one by one now if you're one of those people that has an organic garden and you pluck one by one you take your rotten apple cores and you fucking orange peels and you you throw it all in a compost pile with some Dead Leaves and and use that as fertilizer you going to run out of nitrogen cuz you need fish bitch oh shit you say it's really weird

but the dead cycle is that dead animals actually fuel the plants that you consume so if your person that is you know if you're even if you're eating wild plants are you want to eat some wild plants guarantees a dead fucking squirrels and rats and pigeons anything else went to fertilize their lives probably had that mean if proven that there's Sam and DNA sometimes and plant because those plants have actually use salmon for a fertilizer of people use that those dead fish and that shitt gets into the plants themselves so it's all very strange because there's no way out of this but and their eyes even there's no way out it's the out it's the path of least pain and suffering and I would tell those folks I respect the shit out of that and I'm trying to do I'm trying to take

my own this into my own hands and actively go and do the things that I know it's being written to my life to make me a better person to make me more skilled person to give me more perspective on the world but at the end of the day the byproducts of all that activity is healthier ecosystem and more more Wildlife cuz that's proven to be the model we said and I feed my family with that and I'm just trying to do what you're doing in a more tangible way your hands off I'm Hands-On is the way that I would say that and I respect the hands-off I respect like I'm cognizant of what's Happening Here and I'm trying to make it better I respect that I see what you're trying to do but if I'm thinking Through The Eyes of a vegan you can go fuck yourself

I'm being a nice guy and you could have a dick that's like vegans lot of dicks that's all you think you get a free app I just kill animals and time you Bond but you don't some of them at Moby's page never help movie as a wonderful Instagram page and read the comments under and I was like this is so hilarious about eggs and this is what it's the first of all folks is becoming talking to a person who has chickens eggs are like the most Karma free thing says eggs cannot legally be labeled as healthy nutritious or safe to eat first of all this is true because eggs are full of cholesterol and saturated fat and because every year over 200,000 people in the US can track someone to look for Meg's they cannot legally be advertised is healthier City Furniture Central

okay I don't know why you post that moment you didn't look into it is there something how many people get salmonella from eggs every year because if it was the fucken Shane Morris Bridge collapse so goddamn fat so it's dismantle

does dismantle this Preposterous idea that 100000 people get salmonella okay here we go even with safety steps in place it is estimated that about one in 20,000 or one in ten thousand eggs are contaminated with salmonella wow that's a lot

is Molly right what is it what do you say a hundred thousand people get it right what we see if you can find how many people in the US contract salmonella because if they find out that this salmonella in eggs are they finding out that's from uncooked eggs every year about a million people get salmonella infected from foods that have been contaminated by one of the many kinds of salmonella is he freights

okay let's see let's see if it's a hundred thousand people from eggs how many people per year get salmonella from eggs

what does it say salmonella in the United States hundred forty-two thousand people United States are infected each year with salmonella

bow hold on that says from chicken eggs wait a minute a hundred forty-two thousand people United States are infected each year with salmonella from chicken eggs in about 30. Jones mobile. Louis MO be right but he's off by 40 mm related when they are sending a large Mass Effect kind of salmonellosis that's what it is when you get it from 2010 maybe it's different 2018 hundred forty-two thousand people United States are infected each year with salmonella and San Andreas enteritis enteritis from chicken eggs in about 30 died so we lost in 2010 and Analysis of death certificate joking

joking just a job resume Podcast where the comedy section of iTunes identified 1316 salmonella related deaths from 1990 to 2006 movie but this is a problem these fucking dummies are eating them raw this is what I want you to Google how nutritious are eggs how about Google this cuz I have never gotten salmonella pretty good by the way if you Chicken dry you get salmonella to stupid you not supposed to eat it right supposed to cook it okay one egg has only 75 hours with 7 grams of high-quality protein in 5 grams of fat in 1.6 grams of saturated fat along with iron vitamins minerals and carrot carotenoids the egg is a Powerhouse of disease-fighting nutrients like lutein and zeaxanthin okay movie so shut the fuk up there's super super nutritious for you just occasionally somebody get salmonella how about just cook your food

bro but here's where it gets really dark why don't you Google this how many people die every year from e-coli from vegetables that's right cuz a shitload actually from Mom formed animals that actually from an agricultural runoff in the let's get a stud like out I was come back to this like where you play the beginning please just six degrees of mogh edit your post with the correct number 262 and 65000 infections occur each year in the United States of E coli

wow 36% are caused by e-coli 015 7.87 almost all from animal agriculture is almost all from from shit from shit water here types of E coli that can cause I want to be transmitted through contaminated water or food to contract with animals or people to water what they really mean is that water is contaminated with shit from animal agriculture I think almost entirely what is the source source of E coli the most prominent source of E coli from in vegetables to you it's animal agriculture mean if you see those gigantic fat farms the run off and you find the evidence I'm trying to be I'm trying to be

I'm trying to be vegan I'm not argue for the vegans sounds do you like this I like this to do with the most common way to acquire E coli infection is but you have to be in fresh produce and that fresh produce means not cooked so if you get broccoli at you have to cook spinach celery that's a problem with Romaine lettuce right because Romaine is you know we ever cooks that stupid fucking shit let us at least the world had no romaine lettuce e do you think it'd be okay I think I'll be fine. He calls it the hard lattice is I don't want that hard last me to soft meat I could be putting meat my stomach instead of that shity ask what is just delicious in your lettuce

healthy healthiest fuck you have an organic garden your backyard no no no I got some shit I grow a little bit little bit not a lot from the store to buy meat from the store like I get I get to opt out of factory farming cuz I have a lot of wild game stuff my house I have definitely still bought meat from the store at 5 and I eat meat almost every day but I'll still go to restaurant order steak that's way different it tastes different it's better for you it feels different it's feel different for my body you know I mean I have I remember watching this thing about Ted Nugent want to fucking energy music 65 years old that I'm eating deer everyday all day is it love or hate that guy there's a lot of power

is Diet he's a good guy to get to know him he really is how about that does he say things that I agree with 100% time now I love Paris uncle Ted which you know should I worked at the NRA for a while and like I used to get assigned to the Ted Nugent a talk that he gave at the NRA annual meetings like I was a writer for going to rain in Lake Worth for the digital websites and I would get assigned like the Ted Nugent seminar at the NRA annual meeting I would go and sit in the back with Ted who gets crazy but he is smart man but he is as you found out on that podcast that was amazing like that dude

is sharp as they come you don't want also he's reasonable and open to do information you want to think I tried them on to I turn them on a marijuana Ted Nugent official good as fucking his Instagram he was actually he was advertising Jambo CBD that I hook them up with some serious he was told to tell me about his days of rock and roll jumping off of amplifiers and he destroys meniscus he has a shot and he had a huge ice packs on each one of his knees and you just had surgery on one I don't know what it with the surgery was for but it like he clearly he's clearly in pain and like you just looked in a run-down but then we went out in the crowd he came onstage me look like a twenty-five-year-old Rocka he's a hard-working man mean when when the time comes the lights are on

that guy goes after and people like to show you support with the racist things you said it is like no unfortunate you know whatever the fuck he said that you didn't like that either he shouldn't have said or maybe you didn't understand what he meant or maybe it's a contact to a anything to hurt anybody's feelings unfortunate and I don't support it but that's just a fact of being a human being in one of the parts one of the things that we're doing when were screaming out and calling out someone and want somebody platformed and dismissed and never never to be heard from again we're worried part of us are worried that that's going to happen to us we're worried that we would ever exhibit that sort of reprehensible Behavior or language and we want we want to put a stop to it in ourselves in other people we want eliminated from our society and culture want to do it harshly and ruthlessly and we're terrified is going to be done to us yeah you know and it's a lot of people that make some fucking really terrible mistake

and I think there's got to be some sort of path to Redemption I really I really believe that always cuz you know in hunting I must really don't need the caliber of sucks that you have in this room but like I mean tc1 hunting and then I run around in the in the circles and then people are saying this person thinks this and if you seen that Instagram post I don't believe in that and like knocking people down yeah and I said I know that person that's a good person you know and maybe he's not he or she is not to picking this in the way that you like it in this instance that's a good well-meaning person people are more than capable of mistakes and we should be more than capable of allowing them redemption and forgiveness should I be on this podcast right now and have said something in the last couple hours that was was terrible and like I would hope the folks that know me would know that like this is a mistake and as long as I own up to a mistake and say hey

it was in the moment I apologize and I'm a little bit a little bit of apologize for that thing and it's not that doesn't Define me that's a very scary and slippery slope to get down is like one moment in life can't find you saw so something that's really it seems way more recent this this idea that you know you want some of the never be heard from again you know the date they fucked up and they should never be heard from again and also I think and this is my own bias I think it's a product of a shity way of Distributing information that is exists all of our Lives until recently and I feel like the long-form conversation is the only way to get to know somebody and when you sit when I sat down with Ted after the 3 hours to talk to Mike I like this guy I like them feel like you are say I love when I get off of a good podcast when I when I meant the second episode of The Haunting Collective and I sit down somebody in there like oh my God this person like what they just brought to my life into

so fucking happy to have had that yeah yeah because you don't you say this all the time you don't get to sit down in your life to take 2 hours or 3 hours of somebody in just talk and exchange ideas and disagree in 3 no distractions that gives you something every almost every time and the only way you get to know people it's really it's very it don't mean I mean I mean just three podcast I mean in your life it mean if you don't have a podcast sit sit sit down with someone to talk to them for several hours do that with your wife not man Trucking rare you know I mean I have made a vested interest in long form conversation not just on the podcast but in my life really over the last like 5 or 6 years Yahoo better than you did to say time be like this is informed the way that I think the way that likes its impact in our society and our culture this show like it's change the way I feel about people that change the way I feel about what what can we do

nation is like I have convenient perceptions of people I think we all do and we go all that guy's cool all that guy's Nadar this girls in asshole or whatever whatever my convenient perceptions of people I find that a lot of them are based on these brief interactions they're based on you know but small amounts of informations been distributed over long periods of time and maybe one at one time I caught someone when they were hammered and they're being an ass off or maybe I was hammered and I just I was annoyed by that more will who knows what it was but

to really understand who a person is if to sit down with them I think and just talked to them and you have to do it for a long time and it takes a long time and you also observe their actions and observe them when they're tested and I deserve down under duress and there's no way to get out of a long phone conversation can't say like I got to go now I'm out of my depth all the things I said about myself how great that was before this now and you're opening up this Chasm where I don't know the things I said I knew but I could for a 30-second a 1-minute TV spot I could train I could I could read the lines and I can come off like I look like I know what I'm talking about but there's no way to escape this this freaking thing I just thought about something I can't have fucked-up what is Shelby if you had just a husband and wife alone in a room with no one reacting to them right just damn sitting down in a podcast

and then it. Podcast hits broadcast to the world in the whole world gets to wash their fucked-up dysfunctional relationship and how plays at all the weirdness another this weirdness that you see around people on their wives or sometimes have a couple of cocktails the wife will say something really shity and walk off hit the bathroom like I'm still not over it in Psych the guy does something douchey or the girl does something country or whatever the fuck it is and then you like woah it first starts it starts to trickle out in this passive-aggressive way and then eventually for there long enough it just becomes aggressive around them long enough and that's one of the things about alcohol it's so beautiful out that aggression just comes out of people you tell me if you like that she told me she liked this idea I had this idea the other day is busy what we're doing right now is that I would do a show about ethics around like hunting in the outdoors and things but it would just be called drunk ethics where I was

drinking with people and having intelligent conversations that would increasingly get more more more if I had a weird and open because I'm getting

laundry I'm drinking right now from the the release of inhibitions and now there's something that's give me the reason why I have such a strong Place socially releasing in a bit but also increasing brain function at the same time could you bring so confused hashtag it's like what what every we can get together a couple that's been fighting you get them to go over there the way you feel about things we have a therapist in the room this is Duke it out till they can't take it anymore than just just go with a way of Ben Affleck and JLo just fall for a short every time you were in love let it hit the rocks move on folks don't you want to

new person in your life you have a do you have any like

marriage advice I have been married for coming up on 5 years

I have a two-year-old my wife was have more children

I just bought a new house living in the brand new house and a new towns that use you got a lot of things going on there pressure points right living the American dream in the family they're wonderful people I love them but like I want to sustain this I have a great thing I'd like to put my arms are in a keep to go away just your awareness of how special it is you know you are doing the thing that everybody thinks of when they think about like fulfillment in life you're raising a child you're having children your you know you're engaged in this intense relationship another human being we create a person all those things does a giant man it was a giant also you're engaging in activity the 50% of the people V he goes down hard and screaming and swearing and lawyers of all the levels of failure in life like there's nothing more no failure more impactful than a divorce that I've met have so many friends that have been

fired from jobs and it's not fun it's not good but they bounced back I've seen guys lose who they are from divorce I've seen it happen I talked about this too many times but it is a true story I have a friend who has been divorced to a woman for 14 years he's been married to a new one for 12 he has family children with this new woman it's over with the old one he's still pazar every year and they have no children cuz he fucked her so hard she can't work

it's because it's crazy cuz the laws are insane the laws are insane they don't make any sense we're not talking about a woman who is like 80 years old and can't work anymore either we're talking about lately you know viable human being

students bananas did is banana a I do there's never I did have a buddy who when he said I do and they turned around she look mad he looks scared why was she mad I probably did she didn't say it right

hey and some people just don't do not supposed to be together but they think they should be with somebody yeah they find somebody and they talk that someone into doing something fucking insane like signing a legal contract that says you're going to be together forever and ever till death but my problem is a very lucky problem that I've got something that at least in this like early years has seemed to be the right thing right ba listen what are the odds he made it this far would we 2 hours and what 30 minutes my challenge right now is I think about life I'm like I got this wonderful beautiful thing and I'm just the stress is that I'm going to fuck it up

well that is always the stress and I think that's one of the reasons why a lot of marriages fail is because of this intense pressure of the relationship you know like there's a finality and I understand the need for this finality right doesn't need for this contract and that the everything locked down if you're a woman you can't it with you when you're raising children but you need help right needs a man to be there to help you raise it hopefully but you also need financial help it's difficult to notice its this is all it makes sense that a woman would want to lock things in like that it makes sense it's also weird cultural tradition right it's this weird thing that we have this law like we we we bring the law involved into relationships and it's it's very strange like legal contracts and some of them are fucking Preposterous right sometimes you see a guy who looks like Rupert Murdoch right he's got this bang and wife and she's like 30 years old and she's got big

test or how about Harvey Weinstein and his wife she said for the right reason you like hey son I see what happened here, okay yeah this is disgusting troglodyte type you know just gelatinous looking Jabba the Hutt looking man and a beautiful hot young wife cuz the guys got fucking cajillions that's a normal thing that there was an actress that's not put up any pictures

but they're both going those folks there was a group of going into that knowing like a look this isn't a traditional or maybe he was really sweet with her and that's all she needs maybe she's just this rare soul that if he had $5 in his pocket should be super happy with them that would be it's a Preposterous Union in the first place listen there's some relationships that you could Define as legal prostitution they are absolutely legal prostitution a woman has met determination that you let the sloth fluid into her vagina

I'm an intermittent basis if she could be bathed and diamonds and drive a Ferrari and live in a mansion and this is a normal part of life some people it's a and I might even say it like as long as they're consenting and they're both aware that's going on with that would be good argument for prostitution as well they wouldn't have a bit of a transaction I guess I don't know what's a trans actually I guess you didn't actually give some massage you can't get them off that's weird the government decides who can touch your penis and like if the massage therapist said hey I really enjoyed giving you a massage let's go somewhere afterwards of my own free will and I'll drop you off at be fine just can't do it unless you're in a public health issue imagine it's like if load smell like gunshots and you were

go to massage parlor it's really a shooting range like fuck is going on this place is a dirty massage

imagine load smell like sulfur the devil I mean there's a lot of laws that are ridiculous but there seems to be some sort of the marriage advice I'm looking for

I got it I may be was what we talked about earlier maybe its long-form conversations having a long conversation nice road trip for that reason the stress of an airport with a kid and wife is not I much rather just drive it take the time cuz you get this connection if you get the phones out of the way out to the pasture she just get this connection that you wouldn't get otherwise ya doing things together that are unique that that helps you know I'm experiencing things together but also you also have the both have the mindset that you enjoy each other's company and you want to make it work good in some people just don't man please there are the guys like baby I'm different but it's been married for quite some time and then we were talking about prior to shooting a bow is out there like you're being like

things you've done to make it work like you like your wife and she likes you and it it works and some work for a long time and like the percentage of say that's that's what you say 50/50 is is it a joke about it he said he was 50% of the people leave he goes he goes but how many cowards just stay

is it relationships don't always work with here's something you don't always know who the fuck you are and I'm a different person when I was five years ago I just damn I just hope I'm a better person I'm trying very hard to be a better person I certainly know more about myself I understand myself but it is a long slow process I think we are all a work in progress that's right and not everybody engages in this work so you could be a person who's on this path of you know but being present and and trying to be kinder and trying to improve and then you have a spouse male or female it just shuts on you and I've seen that too man I've seen me really brutal toxic relationships where they insult and then say rude things around your friends to try to fuck with you and and it people get into these these relationships with it with it

genuinely hate each other but they're stuck together does the children of my dad this letter or number 3 of the podcast the nuanced send it to my dad but he won't listen listen man cuz I thought I had seen recently liked his developing a ship with my son and I like it shot put this thought of my head that my relation to my dad that he is caring for me the fact that he stay with my mom and they've developed this like place for me to grow and nurtured me and allow me to become a person in that environment like it was a Northstar from you and then I left that environment like I always I never wondered what my path is going to be I always could look up and be like that bond that I developed my family their love for me is like the thing that I'm always you know I'm looking back to but also looking forward to because that's what defines me

regardless of what I do I can always fall back on that that my dad loves me my mom loves me I love them can I grew up like with the strength of Soul because I knew I don't have it I have friends that came from the same place that I did same town I did Marilyn

that OD'd on heroin they live in the same little suburb Suburbia community that I did they had parents that were the same age and with the same high school that live in the same environment they went down one way I went down another I truly do feel that that me going down that way was just the way my parents like built a structure around me that was always about that bond that love in the things that that's very very fortunate that me being able to do later on in life see how Fortune I was

to have that drove me to not fail it's not let like whatever other failures creep into my life around you. Maybe I'll take drugs a lot like a lot of friends Place Maryland there's a lot of people as it's accounted drugs and alcohol and things like that. A lot of friends died as a rough spot I come from town to Hagerstown Maryland I come from a town but the Western Maryland is kind of is a corridor for Interstate 70 Interstate 81 there's a lot of drugs there and there's a lot of my friends are either in jail or no longer around the lot of success wants to with it that that happened to me yeah and I was able to do I was able to look at that moment be like I came from the same place they did the same environment the same friends the same

the same activities we all hunted and played Sports and we all do we know we hung out together I went one way they went another way do you attribute that in Tyler two parents or is it possible to psych we chose hang out with is well in the activities you can gauge then cuz I had to unfortunately I know people that we're good parents that had kids that OD'd that's is I'm not trying to generalize in any way about you know anyone Scituate my situation was that I can always I felt like and I told my dad at some point in my life where I said I went to him and I like maybe 20 or 19 and I said I'm going to get all these now I'm done fucking around like cuz I was a C+ student you know I was a dumbass kid in the smart class through High School

and there was a there was a time my life I realize that like I had to pay back when my parents and my grandparents and my family had done for me cuz that I knew that they'd give me something that not everybody had and I knew I was like I know that I have to pay this back and I got to stop messing around now and go and do something that's interesting because they did a great job then cuz sometimes what happens when people were raised with a giant safety net of Love they become an ambitious and smoke a lot of weed and you're trying to have a good time there was a time like this it's over now it's time for me to just buckle down and get it done what the difference between a child that you're taken care of and then someone wants to be on their own is 10 years

write an eight-year-old no one expects an 8 year old take care of themselves but an 18 year old time to get your shit together that's your fucking quick the hard contact quick it's it's it's unbelievably hard and less you introduce a child the hard work and then rewards of hard-working you're in their life you're probably going to set them up for some kind of feel like I was extremely fortunate that I found martial arts was that my biggest struggle in my teenage years and I found something that was insanely difficult but the highs the rewards were like nothing I've ever experienced in my life so I realized okay to get really good at something you have to be able to put in the kind of energy that most people are not willing to do and that's what separates you from them to find a discipline put a massive amount of energy and focus and that this one and then be obsessed with it and then the rewards come if you analyze it correctly and pursue it with everything that you have your going to figure out how to get better as long as you don't get really fucked up along the way

the real possibility of that so what I realized early on very lucky was that all these people that I saw around me that were engaging and all this really risky Behavior really crazy violence and drugs on it what they were doing was looking for Thrills that's what they were doing but they were looking for Thrills in an easily accessible way didn't require discipline it didn't require years and years of training and focusing commitment require that what I was doing was something I was just lucky that I found this thing I didn't want to get bullied I didn't want to pick. I was I was little I wasn't a big kid exerting like some control of your life that I was just realized I was like I can't do that I'm tired of but being scared of people just kind of this dude give me the the fucking tough guy look and I got to go the other way cuz I'm scared I just didn't want to be that they want to be that so that carried on with me for my whole life

but I seen so many people that didn't find a discipline and they just bounce around like a cork at Sea Forever by push it so much like whatever the fuck it is that you can do do you like to do that's competitive like one of the things about competition is not just that you prove I'm the fucking man know what it is is hard it's fucking competition is one of the hardest thing cuz if someone's trying to do when you're trying to do it it's like how much do you want it how much more do you want than they want that's right and that's that becomes this crazy fucking battle internally as well as external pressure creates diamonds right now I realize that I didn't I realized somewhere in my life that like their I have the opportunity to there's not enough pressure right now I have this like soft but you said soft thing to fall back on which is like you know middle-class family there they'll probably let me live there and their basement

it's like I had the opportunity to do that but I think I just realized that

part of the reason I wanted to push forward and find something that I was passionate about cuz I knew that I had a choice I had a choice I could do I could

try to do something different or I can fall back on what I've been given and I felt that what I've been given was significant enough to my life that I owed it to notice something I owed it to drive toward whatever happiness I can find right and it was it was that the stability of my family lives and it was a perfect but it was it was pretty good and rather than sink into that I was like I'm going to just push push through that and use that is fuel intelligence you know me and you have an awareness you figured out what you can do and what what where this can go wrong and you recognized it and you decided to make some changes. I'm sure I'd like to have ups and downs but hunting is is a thing that enrich my life truly did and as much as it is problematic in the way it's presented in society in the way that the time

people see it when they look at it through like a shallow lens

I can say truly that it's in rest of my life in ways I'll never be able to like truly it like I met you through it like I met a lot of people I met a lot of good people through this is what people did the begin the problem is looking at it from the outside vs. experiencing it the people you're meeting these are people that are doing something that's insanely difficult and it doesn't seem like it is for a lot of you looking outside like what what's so difficult to shoot an innocent animal bow hunting which is what you and I mostly do you have one of the most difficult things I've ever done in my life and I've done a lot of difficult shit it's fucking difficulty it's incredibly difficult to do after that you meet are not just discipline but they're in great shape you have to be like there's a physical exertion aspect to it that's a completely ignored and misunderstood or people are ignorant of it not that's ignored they just don't understand that it's it's almost like an athletic Pursuit that sustains life it's very very this reason my campaigns.

running marathons an ultra-marathon running right now he's not just doing that because he enjoys Fitness in the most certainly does he's doing that because it helps him as a hunter and that a lot of people that like wait what are you talking about it doesn't make any sense I have seen hunting encourage you going and find these people on the internet on social media isn't things and understand that each one of them represent in my opinion of layer of hunting right John Dudley represents to me amazing wonderful human being but like at its core on social media he represents the expert Archer yes that's a layer of hunting that you need to have to be successful campaigns represents the physically fit Hunter and that's a layer that you need to have if you're going to be all to my successful like Remi Warren represents like the ultimate Predator being able to think about like an animal doesn't move like an animal. That's a layer that you have to have if you going to be all to my success when Steve rinella represents the great thinker the grade you know theorist

and all these are like layers that you have to have at some level to be a good Hunter to be the best hunter I like to be successful consistently you have to know so much and what when things when I got into it that was interesting that Steve said to me he said you're going to really like this because it has so many layers to it it's like there's just a lot of room to learn and grow you never can Master it no you can't you just one thing the possibilities are going to run into the same scenario over and over and over and over again never me get lucky a couple years in a row but eventually you're going to run into some sort of a situation where the wind catches you or in some something goes wrong you step on a tree branch snaps and it's What It's Like You accountability to because when you release an arrow you are whatever you want and I've had all these situations where I've arrow is landed in place I didn't mean it to

and the teachers is countability that teaches you all different kind of bugs when you release that are there not you can't go get it back if it hits the animal in a place in women's at that animal suffers it is on you honey pen there is no way to get out of this is no way to get out of that feeling and I've I've had I don't know about you but I had like months months like six months of just like I don't want to overstate is not hyperbole. But I just really a lot of pain around like I did that and I did it was my fault I got lazy couch presumptive I got too confident I just screwed up in the moment I don't know what happened but I've sent a very sharp object into the rump of a big elk and it ran off and never to be seen again what the consequences of that one motion the one movement that's going to release a Tarot or so significant to fux with your hat that's what we were talking about you know we talked about this many times with Target Panic that's what that is that's the realization of the anticipation of the moment and the consequences

understanding of the potential negative consequences and their overwhelming martial arts but also with with playing pool like if you're about to shoot about Pharmacy to bring it there's no part of pool that like you if the ball goes where you didn't intend it to an animal gets Maine right right to the consequences are so much so you can ask important motion for you to really care to do it right but there's a real and that's why I say like one of the reasons why I continue to do what I do is cuz this is this thing is komplex and I see other people's confusion around it and I appreciate their confusion and I understand that it's hard to get

and I desperately want to find ways to like to make it easier for imagine if every time you played pool you waited days and days for one shot and you know what the shot would be and sometimes you had to shoot it quickly and if you missed and didn't make the shot an animal would scream out in agony and die a slow death and you would be sick for months that's when you think about how difficult it is to perform on to that moment the intense pressure. The one moment

it's like nothing out the stress may have to think about it cuz it is it's real life though I know I think Steve rinella price at it at some point or you did or somebody really smart to decide its three-dimensional experience includes like riding a roller coasters thrilling but the third dimension isn't there cuz when you get off nothing happened really you got the thrill but there was no consequence of the thrill and really that's kind of the point of buying a ticket to ride on a rollercoaster getting to 300 without having to take part in anything substantial was hunting you there is thrilled there's fun everybody seen videos of do whooping and hollering and hugging you and I've done it around the killing of an animal is not it cuz I was just myself like some really key questions like why is killing gratifying

like what's what's the answer to that really what's the answer to that and I was like a pan that's going to be hard to explain there's a bunch of things going on pretty hard to explain to someone who doesn't know what it is one thing that's going on is you just accomplished something that's insanely hard to do and you're relieved that their animal died and that relief manifests itself in exuberance you you high-five you hug you like over you go fuc yeah that you're happy that it happened that it died quickly that's that's a big part of it is a part of it post on social media yesterday around like this. We're going to try to write an article for the meter., battle is theirs and there's this goes back many many years and then goes back to Teddy Roosevelt it goes back to the turn of century Market hours

the photos we showed early I mean taking a photo with the thing you just kill this is no new thing to us this is all this photo is all those photos with the animal that you're gripping its antlers are gripping a part of the animal in your smiling and in your happy that you did that

what I think what I would say about Griffin grams is that it's been weaponized right we everybody that's listening to this may be as likely seen the girl with the giraffe girl the giraffe the guy with the lion the girls like the other girls that ended the giraffe the guy with the baboons I think it's been weaponized and it's it's it's been weaponized to a point where it's the thing the first thing that somebody likes I like Ricky Gervais Smite he finds this thing online needs me by the way how about that

society and we know I know that honey is act as if he was a business not a lot of people to buy stock in it I mean there's a last people doing it it's less relevant to society and the weapon that a lot of folks are using that don't like it is this photo and the photo depicts a person smiling next to or over top of a dead animal and so at its face it absolutely says I'm happy that there's a dead animal in front of me for such a significant moment around the photo is it happen for very long time but then social media became a deal right and during the 80s and 90s Griffin Greensboro like I remember going to like my first trade shows as a kid and people would have liked flip books of Griffin grants they would like get him out be like you see Rock Hill this year before felt before cell phones or whatever then bring them out to look at all the thing that killed it was like this this this communication between Hunters that was legit

like I know what a good pairing is I'm not questioning it but then social media becomes prevalent people start posting these photos to everyone for they can control the messaging anymore and it's it's one of the easiest things one of those oxymoronic thanks to go pluck from hunting and be like don't understand this this looks fucked-up let me apply that the trophy hunting in love me damn this person for this phone and so with that lady with the goat recent invasive species is killing all the all the native Wildlife but then later on they find there's a photo of that young lady with a bloody dildo to go blood on it

do you know you're not that far to get that on the old Google machine for 3 hours in but what do you mean something's hard for me to explain there was like a some sort of bachelorette party or something in that young lady the same lady that was in the Skyland correct yes with the goat was also photographed with a bloody

the little goat blood I believe so

why is he trying to say I don't know maybe she was partying she could have been just happening at Jambo Jambo

Janet's hit me up Jamie what's up

make a fist thing look like a like a dildo like you thinking of how it's like that that's that's that's the thing okay it's just it's a fist is that for fisting hablas lamp for photo with dead sheep body sex toy Fox News

so that's recently is this recent when is this is this is this is a different animal she's with looks like some of the a she's got what she's got there is looks like an ibex and then she's got what looks like I moved from another dead animal on British soil

she posed with sex toy and the dead sheep let's just say that yeah, her husband said list

if you do shoot one this is what you have to do and maybe there was a bad that's I don't know any of the details around with that photo is it just like the baboon one just don't look good what do you saying okay it says Gary said that the marital Aid had been given as a birthday present but said swiftwick how do you say your name so rude and arrogant throughout the trip who's gearing

must have been her International host maybe she's a British Hunter the sound like two chicks and get along it was a bit of fun during the party marital Aid located

so now I have no idea why I was brought out the following day on the hunt it was an appalling thing to do a complete show disrespect to the animal she did she has just doesn't know because it was dead and I don't mean it's weird but I don't you know I don't know if I'm horrified by I'm not friends with her any longer in a fact she's a reason I left early because I was so against what she stood for in her more Uncle I want to read this I love you. I never met that person I don't know them but that happens like this is just example of who knows the weaponizing of these situations where somebody every time I did not know about that.

say like don't stop doing what you're doing if you feel it's right and you feel respectful as a hunter and you're telling me entire story and part of that story is to sit by the M1 smiling and signify how great you feel about it then go for it exactly that's what you should be doing don't let someone else change your behavior the other side of the things is like every Hunter has a chance to impact somebody that doesn't go hunting every Hunter 11 million Hunters they have a chance to impact Lee millions and millions of folks who aren't exposed hunting at any point in our lives and so I can see I can't really see both thing but for me it's it it's an issue of if I want honey to continue in the way that it does and I want my social media privileges to make honey better I would probably choose not to put that out there unless it was in the context I felt very comfortable with that's very fair it's that's not just ferrets honest and it makes sense but obviously if you had those photos you showed them to someone like me

hunted it wouldn't bother me at all Billy had you got a nice deer control. She texted or text it to you and you would say it's like we we we there's no we don't have to explain what it is the problem is it's like fast food for an idea you're just it's a tiny little thing it's not real you're not you're not getting the full context to where the food came from or how the animal was raised and how is killed turn to a burger in the context of the experience that led up to you shooting this deer that might be like this 200 inch mule deer that's a deal of a lifetime the others giant smile in your life cuz you can't believe you outwitted this old Monarch of the forest and and put an arrow in his honor is is bird cage for sure I think that's a totally legitimate way to express your hunting

for me if you would ask me today I would say I would probably not give anybody the chance to misrepresent my shitt I don't put pictures like that if any more feel a lot of El Camino but if I was to say like I always said in the very beginning of the conversation I said if if someone is had been can you give that up for the betterment of hunting like could you just give that one thing up is traditionally has been done for decades where where a guy kills a thing it sits in front of it yeah would you be willing to give that up if for some way shape or form even if you didn't agree with it it made for a better hunting to not Hunter 29 Hunter place to buy looks like him in for that so I think that's what the conversation is now is trying to determine is that the best thing

or not I'm not sure I have the answers I think for anybody who's listen to this three-hour conversation and sort of gets an understanding of where we're coming from delt appreciate that there's a lot of thought involved here for anybody that sees that photograph of you smiling with a dead bear they're not going to appreciate that it's going to be real quick and they're going to have this how many people are willing to sit here and listen to this whole conversation of how your mind works and how you think about things not nearly as many as will look at a photo and go that guy's a cunt you know and that's the Ricky Gervais stacked it right as much as I do enjoy Ricky's comedy and when he looks at these things like that first of all that fucking giraffe one that's a wrap one was super complicated and Glenn Greenwald and all these other people they sick the lot of people in that lady Thatcher have had to be killed a giraffe apparently had killed at least two or three young bowls and it was a non-viable mail and they made it out like it was rare giraffe but it's rare because it's old

it was dark because the darker ones are older one does matter but it doesn't matter to the extent that they try to make it so don't understand what they're looking at but they are looking at something that they find displeasing yes and that's you're right about that is pleasing as well I'm glad when I see that I like listen I'm not a giraffe Hunter I've never been to that part of Africa I don't know that person but just to look at that I feel the same way as everyone else giraffes are awesome as I had a bit about it with my axe I did the only animal that looks fine with being in the zoo another day with no lions and it is strolling around babies feed your ass my fucking door which was to I held her up and she had a piece of leaf and she put it out there and the draft comes over is the only wild animal that they let babies feed they don't let little kids feed polar bears

give me your arm you write know you're right it makes sense be better I want the conversation between that between Ricky Gervais Ricky gervase acts like an ass hole in this context he enjoys getting angry people but in his defense the stereotypical hunter that is in his mind but he's fighting against African shooting an elephant and it's not even going to eat it and he just wants it because he's getting the big 8 ad is like this specifically calling out that single person or smaller group subset of hunters that you don't agree with to paint the entire group so they think that that's the only way they can get people to stop and think that

they've done with Cecil look there was an accident real change there's been a lot of this stuff is how much it cost the people that live there in about these hunting and sessions get closed down and then these animals go wild and then what happens is poachers just take over and a lot of animals get desk made the same way they did in the United States before Market hunting was outlawed you look at what it what a concession is Right session in this happened on its way having like the late seventies and early eighties in Africa where there was you know at the special Antelope and African antelope and all these other species that were there they were they were not at the brink of Extinction but they were suffering a concession is essentially a bunch of rent land under the fence around our stuff to keep everything keep poachers out and keep the animals in once you know in after winds supposed to South Africa win concessions became prevalent

Wildlife populations Skyrocket you know triple-double * 10 hundreds of thousands of an with that weren't there before they're watching only because that's the only way they can have value the monetary value and I'm conflicted about that me to yeah I'm conflicted about it it's like a thing that worked but is that the way I don't I don't know I've been over there I'll probably never go back over there cuz there's just so many things in this in North America I'd like to pursue but like

it's something I was involved like I went and did not realize hey look this is way too complicated and if there's too much way too much American influence based on the money we bring you over there that isn't rooted in exactly what's good for Africa so I think I like asking on his valuable it's like you can paint that picture all day long like this is its value more tonight for these reasons and nobody can't really argue like the end result of the thing but will in argue argue the end result because it's been so much more effective than just conservation based on donations people don't understand that argue against it you're wrong when it comes to the at the numbers the numbers you're wrong it's like you would like to think that people hunting zebras don't help but they do that's what they help way more than people to go over there to take photographs so am I willing to say like get rid of that so I can feel better about hunting no fuck no cuz I want there to be more animals number is so different

kind of money they contribute this is where people have to understand cuz they'll throw some numbers at you like you know five thousand people go to Safari Zone 2000 people hunting but the two thousand people that hunt they hunt and they spend way more fucking money it cost a lot of money to shoot a lion cost like $50,000 as much as you find lion hunting distasteful you have to understand that if you remove it it's like when you take a dictator out and then you have like a power vacuum how do you replace a replace it around look if you want to do Wildlife for you and you got to cut roads we got to put if you want to be wild love you and people are going to Payless to me you have to have more people encouraging them on these places were bald animals are

you have to make Parks were humans can go and then you have to be prepared when humans get attacked by a man who's going to fucking happened it's a simple as it seemed it is as simple as it seems to say like the numbers say that that African trophy hunting is benefiting with Wildlife now is it benefiting in the way that everybody thinks is best that's debatable but you can't you can't sit here and say light if we end this today they'll be more games like probably the reverse is the reverse probably the River City might it it'll hurt your feelings but it's a reverse what's going on right now in Africa with what would the exact and Cecil the lion what happened in is it they had to call 200 Lions they had to shoot 200 line

which means I had to pay someone to go and shoot these lines because they are their population gotten so high they were decimated me under the population so all the antelope and all the different animals at the lines were hunting they were destroying them cuz they have to eat a lot man but you're a 600-pound cat and all you care you're a you're a meat processor on four legs bro like there is no man listen

just lay off for a couple of weeks listen I know they're delicious

I know you really like to eat also you know there they were just breeding unchecked yeah and then their populations quickly got two very unmanageable number seems it sucks it's never as simple as it seems that the mountain lions in California Washington and Oregon this year in Oregon and Washington to people for killed one in each state that has happened in a hundred years and I've talked to a lot of people that say that's an anomaly but it happened not unless it's also reality and they're big and they're they've killed I think 55 bears in the greater Yellowstone ecosystem this year just probably that number I could be skewed in some way for me but I think that's what I heard that they be a lot of black bears right that invade until I think this was all

grizzly bears that have either been hit by cars or nuisance or working around somebody's cattle and a bitch I think it's that's the number you have to look that up and confirm them right about that accepts a pretty serious accusation to him wrong but

that you know that happens in that this is there's no simple there's no simple way to put it in and cabins here with mountain lions me mountain lion hunting is outlawed in California but they kill the same amount of mountain lions and the way they kill them as they have to hire people nephew's public funds use tax dollars and they hire guy with dogs to go catch these fucking cats and tell him we talked about the North American model of wildlife conservation but that's a thing

it's not infallible but it's pretty fun close my opinion it's a very good system and there's more stuff that we didn't cover but shit dude or deepwood deep 3 hours into this month

3 hours in are solid 1-2 Sawa let's all go play some techno hunt yeah alright everybody bye bye bye see you thank you everyone for tuna to the podcast and thank you to our sponsors thank you to stamps.com all of the Fantastic Services of the US Post Office right at your door stop lazing gentleman use stamps.com because in fact it is the shit and right now you can do enjoy the stamps.com service with a special offer that includes a 4 week trial plus Postage and a digital scale without long-term commitments go to stamps.com click on the microphone at the top of the home page and type in JRE that stamps.com and enter j a r e thank you also to the cash app the number one app and finance fuckers

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