#1222 - Michael Shermer

January 10, 2019

Michael Shermer is a science writer, historian of science, founder of The Skeptics Society, and Editor in Chief of its magazine Skeptic, which is largely devoted to investigating pseudoscientific and supernatural claims.

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my guest today is a professional skeptic he is an author Professor a brilliant man he's been in the guest of the podcast several times I love him to death please give it up for Michael Shermer

The Joe Rogan Experience

animal on Earth that you take magazine that's the latest issue why is there something rather than nothing wrong questions that's a deep one on the Shelf too much so that's one that just you know when you're in traffic and what is this you have someone like Neil or Sean Gerald Lawrence Krauss talking about this like this word nothing because most of us had this idea what I mean in physics it means this other thing like okay well I think our limited understanding of what they're talking about when I see those guys riding down on legal papers with all that scratchy scratchy crazy looking for a fake alien language and Mathematics like thank God you guys are out there

turn yourself dead in a most people go well I I see myself in the casket my friends and family around hopefully they're morning and you have to be conscious and alive so you can't even picture being dead so you can't picture not existing and it would be the same thing at imagine there's no universe and nothing would literally be not just no light but no no perception of Darkness nothing not even nothing I was going through Instagram the other day and there was this one person who was talking about the purpose of life and when you die what's going to happen and immediately started laughing I'm like you don't know how he saying this like when you die what happens it is like when I'm spiritual type characters is just kind of a huckster as loud as spiritual hucksters out there these days there are

it's talking to the dead that was a that hasn't been too popular in recent years that I was a big thing you caught on to that little earpiece the grandfather father Uncle friend of the family for you to forgive yourself where was the will he hit his will somewhere where is that cuz that's what we want to know is enough I mean like a horoscopes have your just vague enough people like oh my God it's right all the time it's always right like that's not even a real horoscope if you really want to pay attention to actual astrology that you had they have to know the date you were born the time you were born it's not just the month of August right you know it's like they got they want to know morning or evening

well because the bolts called the Barnum effect no PT Barnum you this offer something for everybody so if you make a general enough you know why I sent you an intelligent wise person that people really enjoy your company and and you like going to parties and be with other people and yet you like the quiet Solitude of a walk on the beach and don't people like yep that is so Me by pretty much describes a scenario you can have your alone you with people but it's one of those things where if you talk to someone who is an actual believer in astrology like they they are so convinced I got a friend of mine who's trying to tell me that he makes all of his decisions based on Consulting with his astrologer paranoid about that part of the problem is the astrologers and psychics are themselves remembering their hits and forgetting their misses the confirmation BSL who was work

in the Psychic Friends Network it back in the 90s when it's hard to make a living as a magician doing kids parties they all want to have their own Vegas show but only a few people get that so you got to do something on the side so this guy was doing Psychic Friends Network and he told me all about to give him a book The three-ring binder and he hears the kinds of things you should say and you'll people are calling for love Health money career question so you can spend 20 30 minutes at 395 a minute just going through there you know I sent you in a relationship right now and one of these more committed than the other tell me about that you're thinking about travel you're not happy with your job there's some Financial stress in your life right now and tell me about stuff like a crystal and then a candle I want you to set it up here on your desk and this would go on and on for hours and they charge by the hour for not paying their phone bills because they

Japanese Crackdown on the Psychic Friends Network company going hey this is getting out of hand. People are paying their bills so that the ratchet up a little bit. Yeah they wouldn't get a credit card from you they would just stay on the line with you he told me that when he first started he got like $0.60 on the minute for the 395 that per minute but they bumped it up as he got more experience and kept them on the line longer to give them bonuses if you know you got a dollar per minute do you have to go when you got to go to medical school to get a degree you shouldn't be there because in New York City for example it was difficult to Outlaw I like the three card Monte guys on the sidewalk with the cardboard because it's just kind of a game doubt doubt it would be illegal to sell fraudulent stocks or something like that or sell a product that's advertised is of a health product When It's Not Butter

say in that case it's under food rather than drugs or are say no Health Products because vitamins are under different standards then say medical drugs a psychic is more like an Entertainer so this is for entertainment purposes only so we can do whatever we want as opposed to a medical doctor that's dispensing advice so many doctors about example maybe I should have said engineer but the point is like if you're going to work as a psychic like on a Psychic Network give a business of selling psychics like you should be able that you have to exhibit some sort of psychic something well they can't under controlled conditions they always fail statistically more people can recognize that people are staring at them like when they're looking at you from behind that horseshit well it's not it's not been consistently replicated

is it possible that some people with a certain sensitivity can detect well if I'm in a Starbucks or something about Mary may be looking at me and in and I look and that catches somebody's eyes and they turned to me and I think all that person is looking at me or vice versa I'm looking at them and then they send something or whatever it says it could be some element of chance of that now the guy that does this Rupert sheldrake you know he believes that it's actually some kind of like that psychic power through the medium like what I'm looking at you something's coming out of my eyes and tickling your neck so that's his morphic resonance Marseille or morphic resonance now Richard dad and he always fails and then this other woman Maryland Schlitz she also try to replicate it and she was able to replicate some of it so there may be an experimenter bias it's not clear if it's the Skeptics that are biased or the Believers that are

in that case it's best to just say you know we don't know it so the default position the null hypothesis is that is not true until you prove otherwise and if that's a that's a difficult one to prove now if they say if I say well why is the effects of subtle why can't you go to Vegas and become a millionaire gambling or play the stock market you know that we know Traders just need a tiny and 1.01% advantage over the other traitors whatever they can just psychic ability because they're very different effects so sinh psychic ability like maybe of the ability to see if someone's looking at you but you don't have the ability to pick the lottery right so the hard part in testing psychics is to pin down what is that are you saying you could do and that that's where it gets pretty fuzzy so these like why is it legal for the phone so I can see that you can't put him down if the relationship advice

if I say like the Tony Robbins Netflix documentary I'm not your Guru which is basically I am your Guru he has that moment in this q. A torium is like three thousand people there and it gets this woman up on stage and she's got relationship problems he said you have your phone feels yeah take out your phone and call him right now and she talks her through dumping this guy on stage on the phone and he's at work said that he's like what and then she hangs up and everybody's happy that she do this now is that a good thing or bad thing I have no idea for show business but what if you know that seems crazy like how do you know what kind of relationship they really have that somebody to talk to both of them right back story his staff had been working the audience and they they knew all about her in the relationship and it was about to go shower anyway so we brought her up like okay so this is the thing

but you see the psychic on TV there's a lot of stuff you don't see they work the audience they know people still out like it is the psych the faith healers they fill out prayer cards to put their name and address and their ailment and then and the other Faith healers have a little earbud in there and they're listening to the person in the back reading okay here's the person they have glaucoma or whatever and you hear him calling this outside so there's a lot of that we don't see Anthony Robbins not claiming any kind of psychic ability improving your life and if you're in a bad relationship that would be a positive relationship and move forward motion and power and love and fucking probably throw Karate Kid on headphones on but he's he's a showman to the psychic

it's weird to put him in that category right because he's just trying to get people excited I eat I think he does some good I really do cuz he did me some good when I was 21 years old I used to listen to his I think it was called unlimited power I think that was the name of the book and it'll listen to it on audio cassette by the pool is shity apartment that I was loaded when I was trying to be a stand-up comedian and it helped me he had some really good advice in terms of setting goals and started terms of like the way you approach things and look at things but I agree all of that in any of these self-help books Jacques books or Amy alkon there's a lot of stuff that very similar to what Tony Robbins issues and okay that makes sense and be motivated think positive maybe are a little bit on the side of over-optimism so you can push through the failures but don't be blind because maybe it's certain times of Cut and Run and changed course in your life something like that. The hard part is getting is studying that Which Wich

experimental e which are the best techniques versus others in there was a guy wrote a book called sham sham self-help actualization movement and he was the head book guy for rodale press it publishes the self-help books and so his take away on in this book was that the number one predictor of people who will buy self-help books are people who already bought self-help books I continue buying them know if you say does it work well it works if you work it so they consistently like you got to listen to the tapes like every weekend or every low moment is not like taking the pill in your cancer. You have to kind of keep practicing it as a as a lifestyle change for it to work yeah that's what do you mean by Tony goes into a corporation and they get a bump this is example in this books to get it poppin sales so they get the salesman all motivated they hit the phones on Monday morning get within two weeks there there let the sales are kind of backed

they were so you get it so they got to bring the self-help guy back in every month or so to keep them super motivated well you got to give him some sort of incentive to stay stay pumped right some Financial incentive like it's one of those old school phrases inspiration is like bathing it works but you have to do it regularly in order for it to be effective I like that yeah meme bathing works but it doesn't mean you like a two months later I smell like shit like the whole game like the last 2 minutes cuz it's so exciting the 2 minute drill cuz they can't do it physically have to be

they either you have to have some sort of an office environment that is an incredibly enthusiastic to the point where you guys have engineered this environment where everybody's pumped up but that's going to be being that doesn't leave a whole lot of room for the individual to be themselves and feel like that would be terrible to wear a place like that everywhere you go this motivational sayings and chanting things in the hallway and everybody just got to energy at 1000 that's that's what a guy like Anthony Robbins will provide you for with a short burst I just hope that the sum of its bonuses in Amy alkon spoke on fuckology scrape yeah she calls a small Windsor whoever calls him small winds like make your bed in the morning or shave or whatever or like tacos little Twitter post at 4:30 a m at 4:30 but when I get up at 6:37 a.m.

did Chaco has been up an hour he's already worked out already done working out okay I can't really complain, I'm sure you make get your life in order what is he talking about just stand up straight make your bed or in clean your room if you can do that then the next thing that's a little hard a little easier until it's also those things that are in the background if you know that your your life is a mess your car is filled with fast food wrappers your thing that you haven't taken care of in the back of your head that devil that that's going to disrupt it's going to be flowing in your thoughts for the most part will be a distraction right it's up those little things apparently do matter there's a theory of crime called the broken windows theory that it is favored by criminologists to explain the decline the crime decline in the 90s what

the New York City they started cleaning up the graffiti they started catching the turnstile jumpers they started cleaning up the streets they started boarding up Windows is no broken windows are replacing the windows the theory is that if there's a signal in society that no one's paying attention there is no Law and Order here there are no rules or Norms do whatever the fuck you want that you're going to get more crying if you send the signal few little things like we're not going to allow graffiti on this wall anymore and no more Turn Style jumpers in the Subways and so on and so when when that happened in there was a trickle-down effect and then crying so that's the most popular theory for that and I think there's something to that yeah that makes a lot of sense and what they do with New York City is really kind of fantastic if you if you go back to when I was a kid and I travel to New York City the first time I saw it Times Square I guess it was probably like 18 or 19 I was like look at this fucking crazy play at this is madness and you know you see it in movies and it's just always this

horrific scene it's always peep shows and hookers and pimps and Thugs and drug dealers and threw up neon Mall of America Times Square if you took a person if you grab a 1988 future and you're going to see New York City the way it looks nothing like what do you expect it's going to be like like Blade Runner going to be shooting people and selling body parts and that you get there it's like Guy Fieri's restaurant in the huge gigantic LCD screens and then there's some people that would long for the old days the dirty seediness Lenny Bruce talked about and he live there it's like I mean

well that is a certain charm I guess in the night clubs or whatever but the surrounding daytime neighborhood or something you eat this is is it where you want to live rather live in them vomited mall that either but there's a reason why cities have certain restrictions on those kinds of stars coming to be like in downtown Old Town Pasadena now it's kind of a place to go but in the seventies when I mean I went to the Icehouse baby back in the day in the seventies just a spectator and it was terrible down there I mean there was a terrible yeah it was horrible the word was according to my friend Bob Fisher who owns the ice house he said that what it was was in the early days of Hollywood The Producers would all buy homes in Pasadena is it have these beautiful old Estates in Pasadena but the Stars would all live in the Hollywood Hills

turn up and partying down in the Hollywood Hills in the producers like those crazy animals go have added in the Hills we're going back out a little bit right time to turn it around like one of the key things Amal can do is get in with a calling a cursed or something like a Saks Fifth Avenue somebody that's really respectable big and then you can call the other guys go look we got Saks Fifth Avenue 4th Avenue and then I can be next to him and then it's a little by little each of them cleans up their end up with what I was telling you guys before I had an issue today where my credit card got robbed and you know whatever credit card fraud someone got a hold of my number which is really that's the one thing that people worry about the most about shopping online right but I guess I could kind of happen everywhere but you got to think that if there's anything that is changed malls more

ain't saying it's got to be the ability to just shop online on your phone like Amazon that the fact that they figured that out I remember when Amazon came out and it was just a bookstore or one who the fuck is going to buy books online you can just go to the bookstore this is ridiculous stupid business has more money than any human on the planet that's right yeah I heard last night that there's a rule Washington that everything that you make as a couple you have to split over 25 years of California 20 years or 10 years or more it's 50-50 in that cludes Downstream income anything you did that you're still getting paid for say 10 years ago you wrote a book or whatever mrs. Bezos is getting

hey he's worth a hundred plus billion dollars re7 wow so she's going to get half of that and probably going to have because it's loud as doctor said they're going to have to just be friends cuz they better stay friends but you should be super nice to him even if he gives her a quarter because I got wrong I got wrong the richest people after all these bookstores Atlanta business Amazon now wants to start opening physical brick-and-mortar stores that is kind of ironic but it does make sense though because there are some brick-and-mortar stores and I think that are the Conqueror I think he just wants to take over everything by Whole Foods and I was like the supermarket business I can fuck this up to order Whole Foods delivered to your house I think the I don't know if that's available yet but I think it is right now most grocery stores even like all the Ralph's have home delivery within 2 hours to compete with Amazon Prime

wow and if they don't do that you can just order it online and pick it up and had a bunch of delivery trucks parked in the parking lot is like look at this cool delivery trucks have to go with a certain amount of theft that's interesting but it's the online purchasing like that is got to put that must be putting that most as far as like the most impact on stores brick-and-mortar stores is like the building purchase online it's got to be devastating for them up in Santa Barbara right live now just riding up State Street this morning at the end of the ride you know it's like the third maybe a quarter of the stores are closed out of business

is a friend of mine says I want to see that store there that seen a $22,000 a month to lease okay so you have to have an antique store that's going to do that or a little knick-knacks store Santa Barbara is one of my favorite places and it's it's really interesting because it's it's a small area like I don't think there's a hundred and fifty thousand people lesson ideas about 90,000 Montecito included her with her so so yeah it's and it's beautiful but it's also I feel like it needs to be that close to Los Angeles get a little bit of trickle-down are 75 miles from my house to your studio hear my office in Altadena from skeptic magazine that's a hundred and five miles up its dual

I think that human beings when they're living in these gigantic communities whether it's Los Angeles or New York or something like that there's just a certain amount of

do people become less valuable you know there's just too many of them and you you lose that sort of appreciation for people and there's like a tension around like you you don't mind if a few people drop off its insides my wife's from Cologne Germany what's about 1 million people and that's that's about as big as you want to get it's big enough City there's lots of Acts you could do all sorts of things but it's not 6 million or ten million which is just like allies just too many they set up a camera on one end of the street and a camera on the other end of the street and the time people walking through and in those in the the the the footage of those people walking through they were able to determine by how fast these people walked they got an average of which was really accurate of how many people lived in the city yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah Jeff

Poff West I think is his name wrote that book in it and the bigger the city tomorrow efficient and faster Things become dialogue and formulas showing how many restaurants per hundred thousand of gas stations 400,000 you'll get as you scale up you don't need as many restaurants in and gas stations as populations increase cuz there's more efficiency in the flow of traffic and people throughout the city where as smaller towns or less efficient that that was the theory but it's just fascinating that human beings adjust because of all of these other human beings around them they change the way they walk the walk faster they talk faster this right here yes Gail an organism cities and companies yes coinkydink that's that's I mean you feel it

when I lived in Boulder for short amount of time one of the things in a bold as small as wealthy 200,000 people when I came back here the first thing I realized how fast everyone is driving job in Tsum in the head in the end people are really in a rush everywhere they go and that has to be in some way shape or form and has to be influenced by all the other people around them in their energy right what is that what do you think that is though overall Pace you get that pushes everybody along or slows them down I just started this book called rule-makers and rule-breakers it say a woman who is a cultural psychologist sorry I forget her name is Totoro makers rule-breakers cultures

Germany it's a tighter culture that didn't people are more likely to pay norms and rules and there's a little more uncomfortableness in violating them California were a little loosey-goosey about and so my wife's I was giving me a hard time about in my idea of traffic laws as well just do whatever you know I feel like pretty much up as long as it's safe and I kind of know you know I'm driving up the 101 if I stay at 79 or below I'm fine and she's like the type to be like 65 so what street is a is a left Arrow so of course my wife she's just like what we got to wait but it's midnight I'm just going to go you can't go like yeah this California gone yeah well that's a culture vs. loose culture so I guess she's going to talk about how Norms that affect laws and how then people change their behavior you're not even aware you doing this kind of unconscious

absorbing the cultures but what do you think I mean but there's a difference between

West Coast Thai culture like the large groups rather and East Coast large groups do you think that's influenced by whether it's one thing that I've been thinking about a lot so that the aggression of East Coasters is very different than the aggression of West coasters and I always wonder it's like how much of that is because they have to deal with shit weather for 5 months out of the Year could be Ida that I don't know the influence of immigrants as well like because like my my parents and my grandparents were immigrants they all came over from England and Ireland and Italy and they were all Savages they're all people that were willing to get on a boat and cross the ocean right now there's aggressive people do you ovulation that came to America nor with Australia you know you send all these

Germans sit out here after World War 1 and World War 2 all these are bellicose people did their best International character now they're the nicest people in the world they don't want to fight anybody more than that I mean they have massive war guilt and in all tasks they are all raised in and taken tons of classes in school about what happened why we never going to do this again here's what we did it did you know they're still paying is real reparations for that there are these little stumbling stones that are these sort of brass Square cubes and it is all over Germany of the name and year that the person was murdered these are all Jews in front of the house where they used to live there all over the place I have a picture of him and moral Arc Arrow show you it's it's really dramatic it's it when it's 10. You literally stumbled across them I mean they're just there in the street you might see if you could go stumbling Stones you can see them better

four-color another interesting thing about Germany's they won't let Scientology and they're very sensitive about cults and cult behavior is right but there's another reason for that and that is in Germany most people don't know this there is a religious Heretics James got an above-ground did not like that right there. Like little bricks on the ground are like that you just said they're in the ground and then there in front of the house where they used to live the date that they were departed in the day that they were murdered and where they were murdered schmitzer Treblinka Maidana can someone and it's it's kind of a reminder this is what we did and we're not going to do this again remember it's so that's that's changing Norms how does this happen really it's you can do it through the law from the top down but really it's more culture from the bottom up

we're saying that there's another reason besides that besides the Holocaust that they're sensitive to Scientology because in Germany they have a religious withholding tax so when you get your first job they do a withholding for your religion and they give a percentage of your paycheck to your religion the religion you were born into baptized whatever it's mostly Catholic and Protestant but others don't want to get in on that because that's himouto you can make some money doing this as a religion the humanists of Germany get a little piece of this action is considered a religion of Scientology when they say Okay free government money tax money and the Germans know you're not a real religion and you're not getting in on this and yeah it's wife came here before she came here she quit church and you literally have to go down to the courthouse they'll out of form and say I am leaving the church please don't take my money any more out of my paycheck

do you have to opt out you will be give me money to your religion unless you felt Department opt out and find this can you get married in a Catholic Church can get married in Catholic Church you can't go to the ceremonies and so you're done that's the way I want it she went down there with her four horsemen t-shirt Dawkins Dennett Harrison Hitchens it starts effective today but there's a 3-month leg for us to not take the money out of your paycheck gets my wife is like yeah like wait a minute it would have just in a business when it contract ends at and for both parties I know this is going to steal money for three months or months yet what a weird thing that you have to opt out like that that it has to be so definitive that you have to sign papers and go someplace with us fucking shady law it is no good

a lot of us are trying to like talk people into option. Quit Church well it is amazing that in this country why would like to know what the number is if the church is in this country had to pay taxes didn't mean clearly especially when you look at the televangelist that are driving rolls-royces and flying around in private chats mean there's profit is extreme amount of profit and it's discretionary income they can do whatever they want with it and you're do you're dealing with massive massive sums of money and they don't contribute to these people are clearly personally benefiting from the contributions of these people and then they don't pay taxes on it and in the case of like ministers who live in a church on home they don't have to pay property tax if there's a lot of hidden benefits there it's dirty it's amazing it's still here I mean especially when you deal with something like Scientology will you know the guy who wrote it like it's this is not some ancient texts that area in the news from the bottom

you know the guy in the guy was a terrible writer I mean he was a terrible science fiction author he just wrote every fucking thing he wrote the first draft of dawn mean it's just the most nonsensical nonsense writing and yet they don't have to pay taxes cuz it's considered a legitimate religion is Harlan Ellison the great science fiction writer died this year told me the story of the famous story where El Ron Hubbard allegedly said you know I'm going to go start a religion he said it was just a bunch of science fiction writer sitting around like this chatting and complain about how poorly paid they are they have to crank out by the word you know any word kind of thing and it makes it up like that and I'll run am I do that and then they went out and wrote Dianetics and that became the founding document of Scientology did you watch the HBO series on it the documentary

believe what's the best documentary on of course I've seen all Leah's show she's got maybe they stop suing people I don't know I think the climate is shifted and I think people are more first of all for the longest time always thought of when you thought about scientology thought about positive thinking and John Travolta and Tom Cruise and that their own Super positive when they're getting things done and there's auditing and they're really taking care of their mind and you know I'm thinking clearly and eliminating all the negative influences but then once I was a bunch of factors I think but once the internet opened up these the the doctrines you get a chance to read it and people got a chance to mock it and then you know South Park did that whole series on it with a this is what they actually believe in you see like you see the one South Park did that everybody was like holy shit when it is that real people started Googling it and then looking into it and then it started

unravel slowly but surely people started leaving the church Lawrence Wright wrote the book all these things are happening and now Leah's coming in and live as you know I knew her but I mean I'm friends with Kevin James from king and queen so I can only afford is 20 + years and when I first met her she was just like this hard-ass beautiful woman who's just like driven and like talk she's a Scientologist the fuck out of her way you know it was like that she's just like super active and just getting things done and just being productive and that's what you thought about when you thought about scientology but now you think about it is like nonsense and foolishness and and once going clear air and you got to see the El Ron Hubbard and listen to him talk and you you see the captain's outfit he had on with the metals that he gave himself like what

who would buy this stuff right so dumb it's just it's amazing that it is it's so effective and so financially successful I think their membership rolls are pretty low but their Property Holdings I think her pretty expensive are the second biggest real estate owner in Los Angeles is that right yeah Japanese folks that we're number one and then it was number two with Scientology maybe that's not true anymore Boyle Barons now and I know we are doing issues articles on Scientology is when some of these ex-member started posting the secret doctrines the new story and then going clear you know that the level eight or whatever when you find out the inside story and they got raided I mean do scientologists went to court to court the judge isn't said this is copyrighted material

what weight your religion how can you copyright a religious Weld and they somehow got around that I mean this would be like the Catholic church not telling you about Jesus and the resurrection until level eight after you paid under $1,000 or something like that is just insane what's amazing is that the IRS caved in tournament am I going to defend myself but maybe they'd stop suing people maybe they're not going after Leah like I want a real estate here goes portfolio properties reported at four hundred million dollars in Hollywood a loan paid for in cash to left the church of Scientology is undeniably a formidable player in the real estate game

it's what you got but they have some beautiful properties to it yet it's just really amazing it's amazing they can have practically no members and still they have all this real estate here's the thing even though it's nonsense

just so is most religion let's just be honest kids and their kids to start having sex with each other and that makes all the people in the world are Moses parting the Red Sea and Jesus walking on water and you looking at horseshit everywhere it's just older horseshit it's you know whether or not it's based on some real events or some real people who it was who knows but it's all nonsense if you ever heard that Julia Sweeney's monologue letting go of God now I know who she is and she was great and then she started reading Dawkins and median Harris and so on and then kind of let all that go and then she wrote the monologue is very moving took the mall opens she's in her house in Hollywood and the Mormon boys

and she invites the man and they wanted me to tell the story and she's thinking this is like a Hollywood pitched or you're going to pitch the story and I'll get back to you later so you know how I like it actually I press to see if she could join right then and there are you there are two year mission that they do you know if they're white start shirts and their bicycles in Julia starts so what's the story here well see this guy Joseph Smith he he found these gold plates in his backyard and he translated them from ancient hieroglyphics into English and with these magic stones and they going on in the Jesus came to America and there was a good Indians in the bad Indians that he's like I just want to tell him I don't start with this door if this is a bad pitch Tori Scientologist no don't tell me about Xenu until way to handle if I told somebody my Catholic story who never heard of it it would sound just as wacky

Resurrection 100% minutes like we were talking about earlier when you die what's going to happen is you don't know you don't know and the reality is you like maybe there is an afterlife maybe when we stop living something happens and are essential energy goes into another dimension it's possible but you don't look good being alive is so Titanic Libras are just being a human being looking through eyeballs at each other across from this wooden table that cut down from living organisms that turn into hard surfaces sandom and saw him and then you put it in a building in the electricity's rolling through the walls and if you stuck a fork and then you die all of it is crazy the fact that we're on a planet I mean the defect of the universe is at least as far as we can tell infant all that stuff is crazy yeah I did it your essential energy dozen

transfer into some other state why not the whole thing's crazy but you don't know that's right. No one is you don't know whenever you say something that you're not sure of and you say this is what's going to happen but you don't really know you're a huckster that's right yep Gnostic I don't know and you don't either so I mean we have to okay so here's my bottom line on this yet I don't know you don't know one knows for sure I'm happy to wake up in some great place and there's a my friends will be awesome unless unless it I was mad you didn't follow the rules allow that that's that's right Christopher Hitchens called the Christian Heaven Celestial North Korea

play Christmas dictator that knows everything you do and controls everything forever that's hilarious Celestial North Korea but he doesn't tell you anymore I told you already I told you two thousand years ago at this dude wrote it down but then it's not even that right it's like one guy might have write it down a long time ago but then a bunch of other dudes got together and had to revise it there like a new draft in the new drive to get to decide people got to decide what goes in what doesn't go in some of the stories are based on right accounts from hundreds of years after Jesus's death the Bible is a Wiki is like people contributed to over the years and thought Hitchens had a great analogy with when he was dying he wrote a series of essays for Vanity Fair his column we can get his book now I think it's called mortality or something like that anyway people think dying is like you're at a party and someone Taps you on the shoulder and says

you have to leave now and where is the party's going to go on without you like oh no because okay so let's play this out you're at the party and you get tapped on the shoulder and said you can never leave the party you have to stay here forever with these people like one of Julia's funny lines is the Mormon boys were telling her he's like in heaven it's going to be great you you get you beer made whole again like the blind shall see you in the deaf shall hear again in the crippled should be cold again she said well I had uterine cancer and I had my uterus taken at do I get my uterus back in there like you can imagine he's 18 year old got two uterus again

and they're like yeah you get your uterus back because I don't want it back then she said what if you had a nose job and you liked it do I have to have my old nose back in a minute I get to spend the rest of Eternity with your family and see what her know that would not be good in my case it maybe they'll be cured though they'll realize the errors of their way see you they'll be all enlightened identity who are you do you know do you know the theseus's ship now the Greek Minotaur Slayer Theseus comes back and it is gyro and they preserve his ship in the museum forever but the wood rots and they replace the ship and over the centuries there's no wood left from the original but it's still cherished is like all this trimmers Mustang is my first car was a 66 Ford Mustang a classic and I had it for 19 years old so much I replace this and that pretty much by the time I sold it as a classic and made a nice little chunk of change are there was very little of the original left

what is the pattern not the material account so this whole debate about when you're resurrected in heaven with Jesus what's up there is it your physical body if it cuz I'm Christian sects of yeah it's like okay how old are you when you're in heaven 30 this is the year that came up with cuz that's the age Jesus was when he was crucified 5151 okay so it's it if you're resurrected at 30 year old Joe Rogan what happened to the last 21 years of Joe Rogan's body memories I want to go back to that dude you don't know that you're happy where you are and you know what's up there with Jesus or wouldn't mind having that body

30 year old body of like less problem here under GPS for 21 years since then when I got hardcore Jitsu so that's 20 years of getting choked up but of course that Christian was a well God makes you whole again you'll have no injuries but that's not really part of you part of you is your injuries yes what I'm going to say that was but all those the all the stuff that I did that hurt me I also learn from that's right man stronger learned though I think through incremental struggle but whether it's like rigorous exercise or learning something or I think everything that I do this difficult makes me just a little bit more aware a little bit better at other things just a little bit a little bit better to talk to a little bit easier to deal with a little more friendly and all those things I think I wouldn't give up for anything I think that's more important than whatever injuries I've got with

I think you know I wonder if how you going to feel when you're eighty I wanted you to feel like that but there's got to be a point of diminishing returns I thought I'd rather be stupid and 40 then to be enlightened and can't get out of bed very well my older athletic friends tell me it's about that mid-eighties when things drop off fairly quickly and I can stay pretty fit into their 70s maybe still racing bike racing at 80 but 85 or so things drop off pretty quick that's why you got to go to hormone replacement or whatever yeah yeah there's no breakthrough Miracles yet but again I'm not against any of these things happening you know when when summer life Jeff Bezos puts a hundred million dollars into an aging company I hope he successful does he have $100 in an agent company and Peter Thiel and the Google guys through Calico and a few others have it dusted many hundreds of millions of dollars in a cup

are trying to get their big goal is to defeat aging through reengineering sell something and philosophical go behind it is we have to defeat a gentle people can live for centuries are forever do I say let's not worry about living 500 years let's let's worry about like prostate cancer and breast cancer and Alzheimer's and Dementia and so I just a little incremental medical problem quality of life things were so sure more at 300 years old and you look really healthy how much more enlightened I'm not against that I'm happy to live as long as I possibly can

ever the current average lifespan is so well it seems about right okay fast forward to your the day before your 80th birthday tomorrow you're going to go you want another week yeah I'll take another week another month I'll take another month thank you and and that would never end so of course if you're healthy and happy and you don't want to talk to yourself or whatever cuz you're super super depressed or something like that yes you're just going to want to keep going nothing wrong with that if we can do that but what if you die and it's way better what if you die and you really do you leave your physical body there's no need for emotions and all the entanglements of human existence and you go to this beauty analysis of bliss and life yeah I love this is pure love and without a body ya unembodied unhindered I don't know what that be fun I don't know what's worse is that what we're here for were here for fun

add a college professor when I was in my Christian days who asked me when I was pitching in the Christian story are there golf courses in tennis courts in heaven because I like physical challenges when I get out there and push myself right now I don't know what happened no challenges no working out no physical intentions Andrew right yeah that part of humanity that we no longer want challenges in to be pushed to better ourselves do they play chess in heaven it's actually win or is everybody a winner everybody gets a gold medal in a Nobel Prize and whatever that is a problem what the things that we're attracted to things we enjoy accomplishments and achievements and all these things that they exist only inside of the civilization inside of this realm that we've created the significance of them is entirely based on our own

agreements that you know it's important when you take the king and sit right support when the ball goes into the net these we've agreed you know when someone shoots a three-pointer it's really not that big a deal you just throwing a ball into a hole nothing really significant happen but because we've attached all this meaning to that then it's something that we really want to see anybody

did he comes this giant thing answer for this when you said what what's heaven like Bliss and lover with party forever that sounds boring did you ever see the guy who took a photo of himself in heaven know to take a to take a picture of himself in heaven brother white clouds or is his hand like smiling it is one of the funniest fucking photos you're ever going to find on the internet just because of the context of it and it's yeah I believe he is an African gentleman who was either he's telling the truth or you know hilariously full of shit mean imagine if you really did go to heaven and took a picture and we're just mocking him really wish going in for advice right so what is it really found it you see the picture of making fun of them afterwards

just Google man takes that's what they would be playing a large part it was all white it wasn't like that it was not if it was just it was that picture of him holding his hand up like that but it was just a background rainbows and chill like that you can find the other day

it's up you know it's just hilarious that someone would be so confident put that picture online knowing full well that the world is going to see that picture and start running the guy who sold his soul on eBay if you sold your soul that your religion did you get a good price

but my concern about all of this obsession with the afterlife that's not it take a picture of the actual photo the photo of him and having his what's hilarious is that picture with him that far that far left that's it that's it that's the photo that is him that is the photo went to heaven and that's it that's the exact photo he took a angel do me a solid and the other hand is up lets him in heaven love it the internet is so good for mocking things though it's so good it's one of the best things ever in terms of like there's so many people that are paying attention and so many people that are funny that aren't comedians persada just might work in an office somewhere they've got a little bit of free time and I'll make a hilarious meme about something and then everybody runs with

things just getting mocked mercilessly the video of the guy have an interview and his kid started walking in behind him that he's trying to talk about foreign relations in Poland or something and the little kid is back here and then somebody the white Russians in until there's a bunch of funny spoof videos on that where it says it's a woman is sitting there talking about nuclear strategy or whatever in the kid comes in and she's ironing the shirt and then she defuse a bomb and then she cleans up at the socks or whatever it's funny it's just we we were always all of our information was distributed to us through these very controlled networks whether it's CBS or NBC or ABC and everything was very cut-and-dry and very professional in the way people talk the way information was presented but now it's just it's open and look like as soon as I find out about time something happened in the world I Google it I go what is it what happened what happened I Google it and then I'll go to Twitter and then when I

Twitter it's all pictures and memes and and it's the dude with the question marks now that you know this sucks so many memes that people will throw up when anything crazy happens in the world it becomes so interesting to hear the news and hear commentary in the news from this just gigantic mass of humans and it's what's most funny or most interesting or most succinct appointments that rises to the top yeah yeah there's endless content to entertain also just high quality content but I am a huge consumer I got most of the people I follow on Twitter post articles most of them I want to read in the course of a couple hours my little window pop-up to spread across the top of the screen I want to read all of these articles and I plowed through as many as I can they're pretty much like the Atlantic or Vanity Fair time whatever that they're pretty high-quality well written articles

the problem is is a Content producer myself is that that's the half-life of these articles is so short that post one of my sign to be American columns and I put a lot of work into it and then going to like a couple hours later and maybe day later. No one's talking about the New York Times Sunday magazine article on Trump's business going all the way back to the 70s this would have been a Pulitzer prize-winning piece this would have done in anybody else put Trump right I mean they had his old business contracts and lawsuits and all the Shady stuff going on and and just got huge media attention for about a day and a half and by Tuesday of Sunday Morning by Tuesday no one's talking about this anymore it's like these guys spent a year working on this I mean what did it take to get that lawsuit paperwork from the courthouse

and that hundreds of things like that is like God like what ball and Trump in particular there's so many scandals that I think we've all become numb yeah there is that to you there's so many that you just you get numb to it it doesn't doesn't affect you just so I could you know that the construction businesses where he didn't pay small companies didn't pay him like that so me and then these companies went under like there's a lot of those there's a lot of the unethical business practices that's all in that article anybody else would be done in by something like that any politician accept him it's just amazing what's also what he represents to those people that doesn't necessarily have to be what he really is what he represents what he represents is like the American flag and Eagles and like they have those like really juvenile sense some poster of what he

is what he represents this despite all the evidence to the contrary they think they have him in his category that he's going to drain the swamp and these Liberals are just going to cry and he's going to make America better right now that's just that's that the side that they're on there on the make America better shot some people don't have the time to really look into this stuff who could fact check these things it's not just that it's like if you work 8 hours a day and you have children and hobbies and how much time you really paying attention to trumps ethics I really considering it before you vote are you really need to take into consideration what kind of a person is in what would ripple effect it would have with any of his policies take plans I think you're right people by their team this is my team I'm sticking with him no matter what I think there's a huge element of that for sure there's also people love to argue online to and was soon as they find someone as opposed to something that they believe in they stick to their guns and they just hold strong despite

it would take so much for people to turn on trout the real hardcore Trump Believers would take so much for them to decide enough is enough yeah well be interesting to see if members of his own party do something in 2020 probably not doesn't it seem like with Fox that fox is slowly starting to shift their they're what their coverage a little bit I'm criticizing him a little bit he's always been that way he's always been great at the last to go he's never going right you know that he had Michael Cohen was his lawyer like oh yeah and you just have to just cross check as many as you can take on anyone Channel well I wish there was a really truly objective service like it would be wonderful if there was people that were dedicated to know headed

Royal slant whatsoever just 100% fact this is how we know the faxed regardless left right no ideological curve to it at all that's the market to that of course they all say that that's what they do there the fact-checking organization that mean they're not reporting news reporting them Politics the other text said by politicians I think there's a market competition amongst those people to get more hits fact-checking more than the other guys are fact-checking there is two different there was a accuracy in media and then there was another one I forget the name in one was left yeah it did it seems like that I mean I'm reading Johnson hates book of the this the two books that I've been reading recently at one of them we discussed on the

put it on Monday but the other one is the coddling of the American mind that stupid game into that now and it's it's fantastic and it he goes on to something good there with the heterodox Academy which I'm a member I'm a professor Chapman University and so I was the first member there and universities pretty Centrist we don't get a lot of these protests send microaggressions and safe space stuff it's too it's pretty quiet and Jonathan's point is as more of it so that East Coast West Coast Public University thing or maybe Harvard that going to think middle of the country don't see as much of that but the end of the polarisation thing has gotten worse you can see that the polls since like 1990 to 2018 of people how evil are the Democrats or Republicans used to be a tiny little differences in the Navy. They diverge like that now for the other side is not just wrong but they're immoral they are humble

talk radio and television feeds into that you know if you just or now social media and in the bubble there so but on the other hand thousand members now Professor that said yep I'm going to stand up against this censorship on college campuses you you were talking to Jonathan about that people goes again you had peed on me for many years before the Oaks papers and I think they've had it in for him but long before the Oaks papers that's explain what the people say this could be stand-alone Pete bogosian James Lindsay and what is a woman Helen pluckrose and she wasn't on the podcast I didn't get to meet her but they she's in England. Blue published a bunch of preposterous

papers like really ridiculous like on you no homo what is it the dog park one he had. Rape culture in Kellogg Park and the translation of a chapter from Minecon for placing his males with Jews eat the males on the conceptual penis it was called and that the penis is a concept tonight is not a real thing you know it's just it's a hilarious paper and the same month that came out. It was published in that kind of a third-tier feminist studies Journal so they got criticized like that that's not one of the big ones so you didn't really Oaks anything about the same week with that came out there was another paper published on feminist glaciology I thought someone beat Pete to the hooks oh my God this is totally and I read it I thought this is what other boys at glaciology glaciers

and that is very hard and erect so masculine and you know the lead author and I said this is a hoax right, just before I say anything I want to be embarrassed is a hoax or no no this is real it's like I can't tell the difference between the conceptual penis paper which I know is a hugs Dipietro and the feminist glaciology paper that's the problem will this explain what's happening to Pete now because Pete was brought before Portland State University they they're charged with taking data fraudulent taking data that he didn't go through the institutional research board which approves experiments that professors want to run Milgram shock experiment where you hook people up and tell him that you're going to give electric shocks to somebody they won't they wouldn't approve that or or feels

Bartels fake jail it where you randomly assign students to be prisoners or guards they going to be teached other up they would never approve that experiments of the 60s universities of tighten up the kind of research you're allowed to do even like the kinds of questions you would ask in a survey they have to approve all of that sort of course and James and Helen didn't do that because the first person of all James was the primary director of this thing he's not affiliated with the university he doesn't have to answer to anybody right Pete was affiliated with it so they're getting them on that and that he didn't go through the IRB and get approval of course if you're going to tell people if you got a fake something you can't tell him ahead of time and then we're going to fake of course as it's going to get out and then The Jig Is up the analogy I made the other day was in 1971 Stanford psychologist named David rosenhan

clinical psychologist sent a bunch of his graduate students into Mental Hospitals all over the country and said just tell him you're feeling kind of blue and that your kind of hear this in her voice and that it it's just you just kind of don't feel right and you need some help so they did think they all got them self checked in and then from there on out they acted perfectly normal and end in the let's see how long it takes you to get out and so it was a study and how Mental Hospitals treat people who are completely sane so the title of his famous paper is called being sane in insane places so first of all the students report it's incredibly boring so one of them was sit there and and write essays and take notes and and so in the psychiatrist evaluation of this patient patient is a patient exhibits excessive writing Behavior this is clearly an example of his erupting it didn't know didn't know impulses from his childhood blah blah blah

other one was a painter so she's doing paintings but Landscapes and so on how patient you can see in the paintings the erupting emotions and they conflicts in her personality they're just acting normal right to the point of this hoax was that there's something wrong with our mental institutions that they can't tell the difference between the sane and insane person what are they doing so of course they said about being hoaxed so Rosen and came back and said okay and the next year I'm going to send in some more let's see if you can find him and he didn't send anybody so they're like fake I guess they couldn't tell the difference in their own patients and no one was even taking such in a way this is kind of what Pete and and James and Helen did is like if there was any papers out if you can't tell then what are you doing in this field well people are for whatever reason people are some people I should say are drawn to these nonsense ideas

and one of the papers the dog park paper got it got lauded for its Excellence scholarship he's going to get praised today it's it's one of the weird ones that they hope to me cuz it's so obviously Preposterous when you're reading a lot of what he was a fat bodybuilding one that got the one yeah and James and they are like professional scholars in the grievance studies is it it's if you read those thing it's hard to write like that and it took them a lot of practice to get the jargon in the style. What do you think is the what are the options for someone like pee because if he does get fired from the University what what could he possibly do I mean what Jordan is done is pretty extraordinary he's essentially left teaching at because of the controversy that he went through he became famous he became famous for doing podcasts and writing things and

then is his YouTube videos or they're so insightful and and wonderful that people just got drawn to him then we go to see him speak like they made him into a monster they bite censoring him by attacking him they've essentially turned him into a global international star that's right cuz it affect you wanted to know if someone is of the quality of Jordan pretty rare it's pretty rare I'll talk to Pete about this as well as a Bret Weinstein and cuz he ate supper the same thing at Evergreen and he's out at least he and his wife Heather got a pay out so they have a little cushion but this model like you know Sam on patreon or Dave Rubin especially Jordan Peterson very rare it's very rare to be able to make a living as a public intellectual on your own most public intellectuals that are not in Academia there with a think tank

Cato Institute a reason magazine or being there all over the board you know it's possible they could get jobs there we actually the paycheck and those groups are usually funded by wealthy supporters that just we like the cause and here is a pile of money not through patreon it's possible that Pete that has and save it if I could do this but it's a tough row to hoe I mean Jordan is very rare I've watched this through my whole life and you know this idea of making $10,000 at $50,000 a tox hundred thousand dollars at octo most nobody gets that kind of money Bryant you know maybe Neil deGrasse Tyson Richard Dawkins maybe Carl Sagan back in the day whatever the equivalent of that would have been in the 80s but that's pretty much it. There's thousands of scientists that would love to do that like yeah I want to go

his words are it's it's not just their wise it's not just he's a very articulate there's something engaging about the style in which presents these things it's it's very captivating it's very charismatic I agree you know people discount that Orin I know a lot of scientists who are kind of jealous of Neil deGrasse Tyson tour Seidel I know I doubt that you can I mean Neil and Bill are really entertaining they are at Sunny they are engaging you can't take your eyes up in there so much fun to watch well Perfect Nails people and I like that Sean Carroll Brillion he's really brilliant and I'm glad that he's doing a podcast now and then but when you listen to him talk and you listen to Neil talk Neil just has this booming presents and this sense of drama and energy and entertainment he knows how to be he he he knows how to deliver it in a way that just get catches you it's fun to listen to.

men in Australia and then Melbourne Sydney and unfortunately I went before him and maybe that's actually good. Pretty good public speaker I have a census my value as a public speaker I'm pretty good but and I never seen him speak and I and I did my talk like my pretty much like my tedtalk you can watch online it's pretty entertaining feeling pretty good deal gets up and he starts I'm like holy crap this guy is fucking good you don't want to follow that has I don't know that sort of Courage connection with the audience and not very many people have that I don't think of something you could just learn I think it's a temperament and are you going to hold it and refine it but you can't just naturally be funny and engaging I think it's personality that comes out I think you can certainly improve

but I think you're right I think whatever personality you have like he has that kind of engaging fun personality and it said to translate very well to doing a public speeches was here a year ago I saw Jordans event at Thousand Oaks at the Cavalier theater there make two thousand seats sold out dining room only for the Neil of course but just as engaging wasn't political a lot of people there I in a recognized me and I could see in a few things are like right-wing nuts these aren't young nailed angry Nails this isn't like this at all

and his message was seen a pretty straightforward to get your life in order you know this is the way life is it's hard and he could have went through his thing and it's like they'll write it makes sense and people loved it very almost no politics in it Dave Rubin tells me he doesn't really get political on stage so that's not the motive and I think you know life is hard enough for most people that they like back to the self-help thing it's nice to be reminded here a few simple things you could do you get your life in order is like yeah yeah I kind of knew that I'm going to go back out and do that again very effective to this is the worst trade poreless she said but with a guy like people goes you know to bring it back to that what what could he do if he does get fired soon and very difficult for him to get a job at another University right he's obviously Got Roots and Portland he lives there now it's the whole thing is he's pretty liberal is not like he's a closeted conservative and they're after him he's definitely more liberal than me and

tell even years ago that they're going to they're going to go after him I can tell mainly because he's so he puts truth and Free Speech ahead of political positions you might say I'm a liberal and these are my political positions but more important to me is the truth yes okay well that's no as Jonathan make a point to point out and in his book universities are now at this divided between are we here for social justice are we here for truth and they're having to make a decision in too many of them are going for it we're here for social justice well then just be honest about it cuz that's not can't bury it not just that I don't think that's an effective way to pursue so social justice if you're ignoring the truth you undermine your message because then it's it's not like it's hidden somewhere it's not like people can't read into it and see exactly what you said and how you supported certain causes and deny the reality of others the Google memo thing the Google memo thing was

organic disaster because ideologically people jumped on a side and argued and then I heard the the CEO of YouTube talk about how damaging it was two women and like we talked about like what you saying like what did he say he's just talking about preferences that are described by tests that this is this is all been peer-reviewed study papers on the differences between the preferences of males versus females it's not it's not like a value assessment it at all in fact Donnelly that he put into his paper a page-and-a-half of recommendations of how to get certain women interested in Tack and perhaps you could recruit certainly make it more palatable or exciting to them and that's not it it's not a sex is screen it all online is a really good debate with Steve Steven Pinker in in a in a feminist scholar at Harvard and Steve has all the slides up there and he just goes all through all the different things that are in

Google memo this is before the Google memo made maybe James Moore got some of that from Pickers lecture but it's it's it's pretty solid stuff there was nothing in an inflammatory about the debate this is kind of normal scientific debate tonight to study that shows this well but this is understudy and then they go at it ok and the story we're not saying women are better man writer that doesn't happen if I was Pete's boss here's what I would do a lot of us have written letters in support of Pete & Pete the kind of see what's about to happen let's just drop this whole thing let him keep his job keep my mouth shut because this is going to backfire on us big time like you did with Evergreen State University yeah yeah yes that's what I mean we realize that they've got a Preposterous ideology over there now we know that maybe their stock price has it. Definitely affected them very much and many more people supported many more people who it's it's one of those things where

you hear one version of it and that version sticks you know it's like you know this is the the diversion is he's a sexist you know the sex is Google memo and then that's all I need the man was very sexist anti-female and the bean there's many many people who support the idea that something that was sexist was removed from Google take me to safer environment for women right yep what did they have to be careful about fax Rise Against on a value assessment of women of women choose to go into the medical Fields more women or Physicians more women there's many fields that would like disproportionately attract women that's not a negative value assessment that's just people are different but you know I don't I don't want to do with certain people do because I'm different than them I don't I'm not attracted to those fields

it's fascinating to find out why people are attracted and when you see that there's actually there's just actual statistics in terms of what Fields men are more attracted to or what filled women more attractive now the other hand if there's a reason why women are attracted those feels because they get harassed when they go into them well that should be demonstrated and that's a lie a bad thing that should be addressed yeah that's not what he's talking about James D'Amore is like a very kind soft-spoken time guy and he's on the Spectrum somewhere there's no way you look at James Moore got theirs the patriarchy nice guy and they said to him if you have any input on these things and if you feel like you can help please contribute he's like okay so he's a fucking software engineer

actually it seems like this is the reason why women are more attracted to other jobs and this is the reason why men are more attracted to these fields and they like sex

how do you say

that's it was concerned that if the science doesn't come out a certain way then people won't be treated equally is a bad idea because then you're going to force the science to be distorted if it doesn't match your political ideology and that's so whether trans is natural or have whatever percentages or how old do you have to be before you get trans surgery in the hormones or whatever all that that's a raging debate right now but under underline that debate is like we have to make it come out in a way that trans people are treated equally it's like no no they should be treated equally anyway yeah Carlos of what the sign says but that that's the that's a problem now is that a problem for people I peed in and Brett like joining a think tank is almost all these think tanks are are politically Affiliated left right you have to do that and therefore you have to kind of toe the political Line This Is Our ideology in this Think Tank and you're going to write white papers and up ads and send them out with our kind of slant

I want that as well but what if I disagree with this and this and this here well then you can't work here something like that so that's the problem. The only option today when you see that I mean I know he's not Jordan and you know there's there's very few people like Jordan but Sam Harris is also able to do the speed he's very compelling as well he's doing a lot of public speeches and doing these big big events there's more opportunity to do alternative things now than they have ever been before and I would hope that that becomes available to work I hope he just keeps his job but if you can't keep his job at Portland State I would hope that some other Avenue some other some other path is possible do they come do they pay ten bucks a ticket 50 bucks a ticket hundred dollars a ticket not many people can fill at 3000 seat Auditorium or a 502. He could do is do

us a lecture series on The Grieving studies and have the three of them on stage talk about how silly these things were they could put that together as a presentation to be funny because there's some hilarious subjects and bogosian were in here and we were talking about these things were crying laughing if it was really really funny stuff that's actually probably the best path for him is to put together some sort of a public show they should do a book and then have a book to show ya then maybe even a TV documentary please make a document that's a good start at Pepperdine Gordon Liddy and Timothy Leary did a stage show wow UCLA and saw it it was so entertaining and

Larry comes out his boat shoes and is flower shirt and but they had it kind of scripted but it was well script in a way that seems kind of spontaneous but it was really funny and education about how the government works in Freedom vs. security and rights and I thought that was brilliant and I think they did that all I got 50 City tour of that she Gordon Liddy was on Fear Factor he was so I didn't know that's interesting guy old is Hannibal the flame no he didn't but we did hang them by his ankles and slamming into a pool like over and over and over again I forget what the stunt was Feels Like Jesus guys old to be doing this but he did some physical challenges I remember thinking like this guy is more fit and more active than most young people news deep into his sixties at the time if we had my Fear Factory the only thing that screwed him up was in the end the final stunt was a driving stunts and it was at night and unfortunately his eyes are not that good and he just couldn't see

well without glasses so as he was driving the car slammed into something or something to get what it was but you got them there now it's all right but it hang out with them very interesting. Yet that's right to ask me will tell me about conspiracies about you tell me about a conspiracy you know more than I do with conspiracy theories is that when you know some of them that are so Preposterous like with her it's flat Earth or what it would it would it would the really dumb ones there's a basin the opposite side of the moon and NASA knows about all the aliens are living in New Mexico the lizard people the problem with those is they undermine actual conspiracies when you when you hear about Preposterous things and they they get the categorized as conspiracy theories then

when someone says well there's a conspiracy about This Waltz Rd at tainted idea because the word conspiracy is connected to nonsense right because there's so many nonsense conspiracy theories it's hard to recognize something like Enron that really did happen if there is the Northwoods paper there's a bunch of like legitimate conspiracies you like wow you know you found out the Gulf of Tonkin like really did that yep that's right yeah I'm writing a paper now and why people believe conspiracies the whole list of all the psychological things but the whole second half is because a lot of them are true be suspicious I just think of the Wikileaks or the Panama papers do you know like the Panama papers here's all these billionaires opening the shell corporations keeping their mind they're not paying that's a conspiracy definition to more people meeting in secret to conspire to benefit themselves that arms the public good are other people this happens a lot

and the US government and corporations there's a reason we should be suspicious there is but what is it about people that want to look for a conspiracy and everything. Even if it's you know that they want to see they want to see econ Trails behind Jets as evidence to the government spraying things in the sky to control our minds

right to the to the baloney detection tools are not too finely tuned the problem is is that where Tennessee is to look for some Global simple explanation for complex system self why we all kind of recognized yes we know corporations cheat and stock Traders trade with inside information but it is that's kind of small and Monday is not very interesting global domination of the world now this is who who's doing that it's more compelling is a narrative story about how the world works is super simple there's these two guys in London called the Illuminati and they're calling the shots and they're there the other control how old is George Soros is doing it he's a part of it I'll totally want to hear he's number 13 in the Illuminati many different competing theories to set up

a couple of criteria the more people that have to be involved the less likely it is to be true and it was Gordon lady that told me this that you know it was a three people can keep a secret if two of them are dead. People can't keep their mouth shut and also he would know cuz he worked in government most people are pretty incompetent the idea that you could orchestrate a thousand people to each of them is going to go out and do this one thing at 9 Tuesday and it's all going to come together just perfect impossible and he should know I'm and they couldn't even break into the Watergate hotel room to get these papers what's also who is getting into government the first places are they the Geniuses of the world the heads of their field are they people that just like decided to get into a job you know this is a good percentage of the people that are involved in government if those people know as well these unexceptional folks that are just like uninspired they're all so they're like the delivery it's they that's right that's what are quotes day do they really have the kind of wherewithal to control the whole world mind control

Rite Aid right mind control psyops minutes idea that operatives went into the World Trade Center buildings both of them are two of the most tightly controlled and secure buildings in the world and under the pretense of working on the elevators managed to get into a break through the drywall to get into the main beams to wrap them up in explosive devices this thermite stuff and this what do you know we know how long it takes to demolish a stadium or a big building that they work their there for weeks or months preparing all the explosive devices somehow they did this in the World Trade Center building without anyone noticing not to mention all the people that worked on this they never told their spouses or friends or buddies or you know what they were doing or they didn't mention it to anybody they don't want to go on CNN or 60 minutes ago I saw something in here's what happened nobody have a gigantic catastrophe like that just so gigantic horrific event there's so many

oceans there's so much chaos there's so much going on that you're going to get a bunch of really wacky eyewitness accounts cuz people just aren't good at remembering things when when they're under extreme duress was just the fact that he or things to remember explosions they see things that aren't necessarily what was really in front of them that's just the human memory is one of the most flawed ways of gathering information right it's terrible we have terrible memories right and everything when something happens then you back up and look for all the potato pregnant moments leading up to it that otherwise would have been unnoticeable like with the JFK assassination is a famous story about the umbrella man yes for decades are getting online you can see these like examples of how the umbrella today and turn into a rifle and that he like that and anyway somebody finally track this guy down decades later and he said

I was out there protesting Kennedy the umbrella was a protest and that stems back to Neville Chamberlain coming back after meeting with Hitler before Hitler annexed to get was the sudetenland and he came back and said you're holding his umbrella here I had your hair Hitler sign this paper and promised he wouldn't do anything more bad and Inside Out umbrella became a symbol of you know sort of caving in to evil people or you know what's the word for it you know appeasement how convoluted do you think you're going to get that because I didn't like but Kennedy was doing Castro and Cubans okay so in other words the umbrella meant nothing in terms of the assassination and this is true so like 911 know there was this little puff of smoke or somebody found this passport over here this little thing at all those little things really it's just Randomness what was the other thing is the people that want to think that the windows blowing out or in

name of some sort of commercial demolition or the buildings caving in the floor pan cake from the top down either like the way they did it the price and they all go from the bottom up right now it's one that looks crazy is Building 7 Tower 7 that one looks crazy for like 8 hours or something and yeah that one's just slightly fuzzy or but explosives experts tell me that it's fully explicable by burning all day also when you see the images of it collapsing what you don't see is the interior structure had collapsed previously and there's video of that we watch the interior cave in and that as this fire was burning because apparently there was obviously I don't know what really would happen but there was a diesel tanks apparently in the basement and the diesel fuel Woodburn incredibly hot in the whole inside of it all the structures been completely weekend

and then as it collapsed just all gave out it just happened to be a shit design if I was a guy who own that building I would sue everybody I mean that's mean he got his money back I guess because there's two men try any but that's what a terrible design it was some issue with the legal insurance payout to the owner of the World Trade Center buildings whether this was like what one event or two events or one building or two will you know what is it was at the differences between 8 billion and 16 billion dollar payout or something how do they get people to get into that new building I'd like to fuck you I'm not I'm not renting office in this building just building they blew it up in 93 they blew it up again in 2001 get out of here with this shit about Taking Chances new ass building what is the Freedom Tower or something like that it's a big old Bullseye

taller than the it's not it's not it's not as big as the original Towers right smile bright isn't I'm crazy like that how tall is the tallest building it is One World Trade Center is the tallest Leed gold certified building in the Western Hemisphere you take an elevator right to the fucking moon right outside of space is that possible can they build a building that's so high that it goes into space

one day I don't think so because structurally it wouldn't hold it went up there to get the shape of pyramid well it's like why are trees a thousand feet tall because the material would just collapse if I don't I don't think you could have it strong did it have to be so fat all that's right Japan was going to build that space elevator look at you got Jack with the popups Japan takes tiny first step toward space elevator yeah you can fuck off I'm not getting that thing will take a few years before I move on the climate of that sucker but the other problems with conspiracy that for a moment is the problem of anomalies what do you do with anomalies this is true in all science no Theory explains every single thing that's out there that we want to study there's always going to be some like quirky thing that the main Theory hear that explains all these things here doesn't account for that okay what do we do with that a joke cuz you assign it to a grad student they let them figure it out but what what Outsiders mistake is that well my theory explains this a little anomaly

so therefore it should replace this Theory and some people like Niall and Shawn Carol Lawrence Krauss Michio Kaku has like two web pages one link on his web page if you have an alternative Theory of physics go to this page so they go there and is your theory has to explain all of these things over here that are Theory currently explains and your whatever you're really is a great they can't so it's not that scientists dogmatically close-minded to the anomalies it's that we can explain everything and you don't have to do anything with that just just leave it there maybe eventually the pile up and it'll be a new Theory like Einstein's relativity okay there's enough anomalies here like the orbit of mercury and a few other things and so we have the modified Newtonian physics a little bit

okay that happens but for the most part like an insult conspiracies are filled with these things like the moment something big happens you go back and okay but there's this weird thing here I don't know we don't have to explain everything do you know that there's a growing movement the think that the the space is fake space is fake braces fake hashtag spaces for its people that are so fucking stupid the flat-earthers kicked him out thank God for real Flat Earth is kicked out the space is fake people space is fake is the day of the most skeptical so what would be the upper atmosphere would be the edge of its all fake and it's tied in some weird way to religion which is really interesting because even the Flat Earth people visit tremendous amount of them that are extremely religious and they they talk about the firmament in the Bible Bowl in the Bible and that this is this is what's really going on is that they're trying to keep us from the knowledge that

God is created this place is a very special place near 8th and so by pretending that it's round they somehow or another are controlling us for thinking that we're not exceptional we're not lucky space is fake using a video from Ryan Gosling's movie he just made about Neil Armstrong first man on the moon like a movie because the way they made the movie is that's evidence that it's fake because he's wearing enough maybe this person doesn't recognize that as being Ryan Gosling right there maybe it's just a troll account this is how to fix everything this is the video I was talking about guys now you know it's all a big act yeah but I mean click on it because there's a bunch of other while I'm on that thread there's a tremendous amount of people that literally believe that space is not real

Buzz Aldrin and how he deals with the no Muniz that we never went to the moon does a video of Buzz Aldrin punching a guy the firm believer that we never went to the moon. I watched that fox documentary the moon conspiracy theory 96-97 I remember I went to work I told everybody you got to see this documentary it's crazy we never went to the moon and I watch that one and I watch this guy's what is his name or a hundred percent. I don't know if he still believes it seems like a cab driver something now if he was involved in the news or local television or something like that backwards from then he released documentary called the fun A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Moon

and in his documentary one of the things he did have is really interesting footage of the lunar module where it looks like they're faking a shot of them being really far out but then when they remove this cover the covers from all the windows are inside the the the lunar not the lunar module what is the one that does the Orbiter it really looks like they're in low earth orbit and this is like the main thing pointing to that like they couldn't get out of low or if it were a bit then it was also the fact they lost all of the Telemetry data which was the binary you know the ones and zeros it show the position of the lunar module at every stage he was a bunch of different things the fact that no one wanted especially with Neil Armstrong became a recluse never want to talk about it you go and watch the press conference the press conference they look very shady look like a completely

drunk for a long time though he was he was very depressed and had it when I became an alcoholic after the moon landing and the idea is that while needed to make a living now talks about a Conway but Neil Armstrong never did the thing that's compelling is that there was the worst some there's some faking going on if you look at Jim and I was a Gemini 15 Michael Collins there's an image of Michael Collins when they were testing us some of the space walking stuff and some of the some of the things they would do to to to walk outside of a spaceship date they had them all strapped up with cables and they're just experimenting with these things they took that photograph and then blacked out the background probably some overzealous PR agent and then this is it right here so that the first one is clearly he's you know in

studio and they're working on things and just trying to understand how all this stuff works and a second one that took the exact same Photon just reversed it and blacked out the background and they what does just mean that they didn't go to the Moon that just means it's someone got a hold of some photographs and faked it and it's way more likely that there was more of that going on then that people didn't actually go to the mountain right about going to the Moon that's really interesting is if they can go again and they do go again and they find all that stuff there you know then everybody has to do it I guess we were wrong and there is there's instruments on there that we still monitor that the Apollo Astronauts left their minds are we shoot a laser up there that bouncy ball do you know a laser will also bounce off the surface the moon yeah but I don't think like that is precisely right yeah but the Russians did that to with Lanka Hood 1 and 2

do I believe they left solar roof or laser reflectors up there as well with an unmanned Miss Japan has a video footage as far as of like last week yeah but space is fake dude there's no space of course the moon song even what is the Moon in space is fake how the hell they explained that the images of the Dark Side of the Moon look exactly like even like the landing in the whole setup looks very similar to the Apollo missions so they would have to either be in cahoots or have work together with NASA that use the old stuff you look at it I mean this is the footage of me God damn that looks eerily similar to what you saw when the Apollo Astronauts were there I think it is entirely possible that some of the some of the practice film footage of them you know on the surface or doing things turned out to be

pushed off as actual footage of moon landing I think there was no television will back then there was no internet there was no VCRs there was no ability to review things watch them over again they projected something on television one time and that was it so when they release pressed releases and videos it's entirely possible that some of those videos of got through we're actually just tests it's entirely possible that there was just like the Michael Collins photos that there was some fuk we going on YouTube with so many human beings dealing with so many people see that an estimated 5 in a 30 million people watch Armstrong's televised image in heard his voice describe okay was that it was actually broadcasted live on a projection screen what they did was they didn't get a straight feed they were filming the footage that was on a projection screen that's how you did it and there's some Swanky shit

looks like they fall down and they get pulled back up by wires when they're on the surface of the Moon but again I think how much of that is how much how much of that is actual footage of them being on the moon and how much is that it's just test footage mean I don't know I don't know I'm not sure about that but I think also I Don't Know Jack schitt about space travel I don't know anything about astrophysics I don't know anything about like what it takes the land on the moon and come back and whether or not and most of the people to talk about the episode when they showed a bunch of little things for example on the moon with its gravity when you go something like that into the dust and other particles come up and they are back down and certain way that would be different than if you are on earth so the gravity's different causes the dust to settle differently there's a bunch of things like that that we were there well it certainly proved that what took place to place in a back

yet not yet and a gravitational pull the same as the Moon bright the only in the hammer dropped yet but you know you can do that here well give me a yeah but but even a feather and a hammer even if it's if it depends upon what kind of feather it is but a feather and a hammer even if you just held him here and drop them on the ground they're probably landed a very similar Pace. There's a spoof video about that we never went to the moon which couple British comedians that that that that P you work things out with a cubic one Peele Key & Peele and she's going to ask Google how did we go to the moon and we're going to have to eat to build a big Ride Rockit so we can say what we went in that big rocket like well how much would it cost to build that big rocket when I would be really expensive and we might as well just go to the Moon

start talking about the expense about me I have to feed three of them if we go to the moon but if we shoot it as a shoot here in the studio we have to have catering for everybody to be super expensive it kind of goes on like this very funny that is funny but the conspiracy theorists would say well they couldn't send someone to the moon so they had to fake it that's why they haven't heard back they went from 1969 to 1973 that was six successful Mission seven attempts Apollo 13 being the one that didn't make it it's a it's a fun Theory what happened with me is I got way better at spotting bullshit and learning critical thinking skills and then paying attention to all sides the real issue

with something like that is if someone could prove definitively beyond a shadow of a doubt that not only is it impossible that no one ever went to the moon absolutely prove it that would be giant give me really would be made it would be a huge story but 10 is it even possible to do that you know of WikiLeaks is there of all those tens of that hundreds of thousands of memos and papers and letters and government documents there's not one mention anywhere of 9/11 is an inside job you and we had to allocate these funds to go to this Construction Company who was then seen working at the World Trade Center nothing like that so that in this case the absence of evidence is evidence of absence didn't happen not an inside job in the 9/11 and something like that would be true for the moon landing to meet all those people that worked on that not one of them saw anything and wanted to write a book on 60 Minutes

Metalized in that Everyone likes see if you were working on the O-rings you don't have access to that you had to work on the thrusters if you have access to this you have access to that and that there's only a very small group of people that control everything also 1969 is very different environment and terms with what you get away with not going away with what you could say it's just it was really fun it was really fun to believe that big going to the Bone I spent an inordinate amount of time looking at it but I completely dropped it I completely dropped it after I just

I paid attention to what I actually know so but now you can kind of empathize with those who do believe what you want to hear there's a dumber one for the longest time like months I believed in a Thing Called rods to know the Bible is real Rob little insects that well. This guy put out this duck that there was these things flying so fast we couldn't see them with the naked eye and that they were like jellyfish like creatures that lived amongst us and they had all this video footage of the especially these people that were jumping they were skydiving into this enormous cave in Mexico and has their nests skydiving into this cave you see those things flying back and forth and I was Hook Line & Sinker I was like oh my God he sings around us all the time I wasn't going outside looking up trying to spot them like imagine this is beings that are flying so fast we can't we can't see them the only way to capture is on

and then a show called MonsterQuest crack the riddle they show that it's in a video artifact and then if you have really high speed camera you just see the insect but if you have low speed standard definition video cameras it creates his artifact as he sings pass by very close to the lens at a high rate of speed it elongates their video signal and it makes them look like like the jellyfish time of the night but it's really just a video artifact example of an anomaly what is it about to say I don't know if you don't know anything about video it's it's way easier to say all that's the app sure that I know take a camera put it outside you will capture these things amazing right yeah the other aspect of conspiracy theories is cognitive dissonance that is we want the size of the event to be matched by a cause that's equally of that size so then LJ uses you know the holler

the worst genocide in human history caused by the Nazis the worst Brazilian political regime in human history there's a match their 50 say something like you know JFK the world brought down by Lee Harvey Oswald assume nobody you know there's this mismatch or 911 is huge thing by 19 guys with box cutters do you think that doesn't Harvey Oswald acted alone what makes you think that all of the evidence and none of the evidence against anybody else and all of the evidence against particularly him Joe Posner is book case closed and then the attorney what's his name that pussy I've imagined attorney at every single one of the arguments by the take the phrase example versus make a big deal about how Oswald got a job at The Book Depository building which just happened to be where the parade just happened to be with a parade route was going to get have a clear shot

I was positive that track down when the White House determined even when Kennedy was going to Dallas let alone with the parade route would be in Doswell already had the job there that's just chance so they knew in advance Pro Oswald was in cahoots know why do you think that what about the magic bullet theory settled by the fact that the way it showed in in the videos is that the two seats are like this and that the bullet has to do this one fact the seats were like that and that Connolly with all your outing this in audio form just when you think it's like stadium seating shoulder it is already moving to asking his wrist and fractured his wrist it right the this has been tested and tested and tested well sort of here's here's my issue with it there's a couple issues one

the idea that bullets will take a straight path is ridiculous I've talked to Hunters that have shot animals in the front and had a bullet come out the same side they shot it ricocheted off bones and it came out like the front of the animal like bullets take weird pass when they hit things in particular so two arrows they take an egg as a person who's the welders and Firearms & Shop animals in hunted you don't sometimes a bullet go straight through and sometimes it hits bones and wacky things happen things deflect but on the negative side they always the store though it's always distort particularly when they hit bone what bothered me was that they found that bullet in Connelly's Gurnee when they brought him to the hospital they just conveniently found this bill at IHOP we have it this is the boy that matches the the same rifle yeah and that it wasn't pristine it was flattened if you'll

look at that boat with that bullet it's nothing like a bullet that it bone when bullets hit bone they've been mushroom that balloon it been to distort wildly they don't come out looking like that they come out looking like that when you shoot him in the water or when you shoot him into it like feathers they don't come out looking like that under normal circumstances when they shatter the bone of two different people well do you know that for sure y'all do not know that for sure but one thing I do know a lot about is I don't know quite a bit about what bullets look like when they hit things I've looked into this pretty extensive land of talk to a lot of people in law enforcement military hunters and none of them believe that that bullet hit bones shattered bones came out looking like that is it possible that that bullet was the only bullet ever in the history of the world that did do that it might be okay so we're getting kind of caught up in the weeds of the anomalies what about the Silver Bullet had attempted to assassinate a general named Walker 6 months before

with his rifle and a handgun and he went over to the house he took a shot through the guys when he's so I'm at the desk took a shot missed him he told his wife about it he's I'm a revolutionary I'm trying to start something and I'm not saying that I was innocent I'm not I mean and I think it's very possible that Oswald did shoot at the present you might have even hit the president that's all the people involved with who I don't know how to say this is why is it a problem if we don't know who they are just because you don't know who they are doesn't mean I didn't exist but why do we need to postulate extra people because of all the gunshots it happened in the short amount of time the fact the reason why they came up with the theory of the Magic Bullet in the first place because they had to account for a bullet that hit a curb underneath the overpass do you know that right look at this there's through it if you don't want to know why they came up with that sort of true

and he was a pretty good Marksman depositor track down as we're not talking about that the reason why they came up with the magic bullet there in the first place do you know what will I thought it was because of the the alignment of the seats know cuz they had to a tribute three shots they had one of them there were there were thinking of all the all these wounds came from three bullets but then they found a bullet that it hit the curb on the underside you got checked into a hospital cuz you take the Ricochet so there's a curb that they proved was hit with a bullet there was a bullet hole in the the granite or whatever the fuck the cribs made out of it hit this guy he went to the hospital so he was hit with a Ricochet so they knew that one bullet had not hit the president and so they had to a tribute all of these wounds to one bullet now that one bullet landed into another bullet that hit him in the head and wants of War how did these three bullets cause of a wound as well then they came up with the mat there's a whip there's the bullet

look at this sit at the end it's flattened if you look at it from the end no it's not look at this under no circumstances do I feel that this bullet could hit her wrist and still not be deformed we prove that buy experiments as a chief Consulting in wound ballistics for the US Army supervised test for the Warren Commission here's the thing I don't I don't necessarily think that there was some Grand conspiracy but I do think it's entirely possible that someone took that posthumously took that rifle and wanted to pin it on Lee Harvey Oswald definitively but there's people to do things when they know someone's guilty and they plant evidence Mark Fuhrman did that with OJ Simpson They found his glove need they planted evidence and there was one of the reasons why OJ got off because there was some sort of conspiring to make it look like he was you know it was the clear path they could have just taken that rifle and look could have been that are Oswald did it alone it's possible but also could have been to some other people were shooting at him to it could have been the day I decided to have

Oswald be a part of this and when Jack Ruby ran in and shot him that doesn't look a little suspicious that some guy with ties to the Mob gets right up to this guy who just shot the president and shoot them like why I never shot anybody before publicly about Ruby's character and who he was Major Kennedy supporter that running with some Bad Dudes some bad Hombres there in Texas and he was the guy known herbs security wasn't anything like it is now it really could just walk right in right it's possible but it's also possible to that guy owed something to the Mob and this what they told me to do it going to get rid of that guy no one's going to Care they going to be happy fuck that guy shot the president is it seems so it seems like people wanted to be one way or the other and they want they want this case is closed option that way I mean Lincoln was assassinated by a conspiracy and that was evident pretty quickly afterwards right and they rounded them up in a World War 1 was launched by

Pearcy with the assassination of Franz Ferdinand by a Serbian group of all the black hand a group of nationalists talked about the Vietnam War to the Gulf of Tonkin false flag there are conspiracy to assassinate foreign leaders wrote this book on Kissinger as a war criminal that you know all the shenanigans we were doing in South America with dictators there were back in the steak Tater cuz he's the son of a bitch but he's our son of a bitch versus this guy and we're going to assassinate Castro all the stuff that came out that Johnson tried to cover up that came out in the Pentagon papers about Kennedy plotting to 1/2 Castro assassinated that's a kind of this one or two here and the evidence in my opinion after reading critically Gerald Posner is booked a case closed its is a funny internet mean that went around last week of

the guy that dies goes to heaven and God says you even such a good fellow your whole life I'll Grant you one wish you can ask me anything he's alright who killed Kennedy and God said it was Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone using his own Carcano rifle in the guy goes this goes higher up than I thought that's funny man novel or book about it rather I didn't read the whole book at you know when I was researching this back in the 90s after the Oliver Stone film came out cuz it's definitely conspiracy but then their websites dedicated everything he got wrong there and what he made people up like the general there is Donald Sutherland character that used him as a theatrical tool

Kevin Costner was the good guy that loves and yeah I mean that is a Jack Lemmon and Walter Matthau to Crazy moving back into the left people but here's the thing about that though I've looked at that over and over again yes it is backing to the left but the spray kind of comes out of the front yeah it does yeah yeah it kind of comes out the front and one thing that does happen when people or things get shot is you have nerves and nerves reacting and things things do weird weird results in your body when the if you get hit by something it doesn't mean if you want them up in the autopsy results from Bethesda Maryland versus in Dallas Texas Dallas Texas be attributed the throat wound to frontal shot that something hit him in the front and

and the Bethesda Maryland they said that it was a trait wound that they are they opened about to clear his breathing pathway and then the conspiracy theorists would say why would you clear the breathing pathway look I wouldn't have a brain springshot out of his head so I just don't like when people say they know one way or another it was a bunch of wrist that weren't missing from the the bullets out the bullet itself whether you think it's pristine or not it's still it's not missing a lot of fragments and there's fragments in Connelly's body that they you could detect an x-ray his x-rays in his wrist you could see the little pieces and I don't I don't know what the explanation for that is exactly that's what they want to clean it up or they want a muddy it up instead of like looking at it 100% of Jack Tivoli they want one thing or another I think it's entirely possible that Lee Harvey Oswald it's either to me that they want to say

this is the these are the two narratives Lee Harvey Oswald was a patsy had nothing to do with the government set him up or he acted alone what can you have been involved in it you know he obviously was involved in some shady characters the guy spent a ton of time in Russia came back over here very easily even though the Cold War was going on so I don't weird stuff you might have very well been some sort of a government informant or working in cahoots with the government if that's the case and he did shoot Kennedy or shoot at Kennedy who's to say that he wasn't with other people and they killed him because this guy was going to go to jail and he's going to start talking when they arrested him he said I'm a patsy I'm just a patsy and then play them he's dead. We got them and that's it wrap it up tight it wasn't until the Zapruder film the people really start a question and I think that was

time I'm at ten years later right we talked about there's a you know the whole history the Zapruder film how is releasing Rivera show that crazy Dick Gregory comedian brought the film footage to the Geraldo Rivera show and showed it on television For the First Time by Dick Gregory got a hold of the actual film footage and premiered it on the Geraldo Rivera show how I want to say it was like 1971 or 72 or something like that to his way hey way after the assassination that the American what was 75 so all those years later and then people got a chance to see the footage and they were like wow this is not how it was described to us at all anime people skeptical is a good Nova show on ballistics in the head and testing the rifle and could you shoot that many times and that many seconds and so on and it's pretty good to me

pretty convincing the problem with me is I know too much about what happens when bullets hit phones I don't buy that that was a bullet I do it look like I think they could have just dropped that boat off doesn't mean that Lee Harvey Oswald didn't do it sing about that bullet those it's like there might be some fuck her involved and the David lifton book was that was the book that got me into conspiracies that fucking book God damn it if I can go back and not read it I bombed on stage because of that book I've read that book the day I was performing and I was freaking out cuz I was like 24 or something like that is crazy and then I realized I didn't know any better but don't call me for three years when he can't go onstage bummed out if you got to get your head together you can't just say the jokes and not have some emotional attachment to him but that book highlights what it was was lifting was

bookkeeper and accountant ugly and he was hired to do something with the Warren Commission report and in it because he found some contradictions and he went over the entire Warren Commission report which is an enormous enormous publication and he found all of these problems all these problems in the Warren Commission report and all these contradictions and it was his determination after reading everything in writing his book he thought that the conclusion they made they made before the fact and that they wrote all this stuff to sort of the back up there conclusion that it wasn't based entirely on an objective version of the facts and of the event itself and his his take was there was a conspiracy well it's launched a mini industry of books and films his assassination go down the rabbit hole at this stuff ever see the Jesse Ventura version of it he believes

easy fast is the best I definitely could have made that yeah it's a rifle it's not that far and it just because someone gets lucky doesn't mean I can't get lucky like people get lucky all the time people flip a coin and it lands on heads a mile away I mean you know you can throw a coin you can you could throw a coin out of a helicopter you know you could say this is going to be heads when it really is possible by this assassination of Franz Ferdinand the trigger the first world war this okay they messed up in the head like seven of them and they met in secret and they got their weapons that morning and so on and so it's a couple of them chicken. Somebody else got lost this is like three of them there somebody threw a hand grenade missed rolled into the car behind Franz Ferdinand

they got hurt and went to the hospital and he's like all like this not giving my speech just go to the hospital and visit see how he's doing so they double back like half an hour later they double back and come back down the same route and the guy who would miss he was just sitting there on the curb is like they are pure luck pure luck that doesn't happen more on that kind of thing then carefully orchestrated perfectly-executed plots sure it's certainly can but do you know did the idea that I've always found it offensively I do that there's no way Oswald could have hit like that people say that there's no way there's no way I like you're out of your you never shot anything that's crazy I can make that shot 100% yeah look if you have a rifle with a scope and a guy is a hundred yards away you tell me can't shoot him really that's crazy time that's crazy talk or the rifle was out of what that was the other thing they said the scope wasn't lined up correctly here's the thing folks

if you have a rifle okay and I just happen to me before and you drop the rifle the scope gets damaged it gets moved its it's a very sensitive thing like when you talk about something that goes any of its passing the speed of sound of bullets out of a rifle you have did that that is going credibly fast and to be able to get that reticle exactly and where you think that bill it's going to hit requires a lot of adjustments when you go to the range they set up a Lead Sled you put your rifle down this sled so you're not holding the rifle and by the way off all wasn't holding it either the idea was that he had arrested which makes it much more steady and much more easier to make an accurate shot so you set up his rifle on the LED sled and it's usually a hundred yards or 200 yards would it however far the distance is to the Target he's squeeze squeeze squeeze Boom the trigger goes off and you see that the bullet is low and to the left by a couple inches you make an adjustment on the scope if you drop that rifle that scope gets knocked the adjustment out the window

there's like a perfect chain of command between Lee Harvey Oswald pulling that trigger and that scope never got rattled at all but the conspiracy theories want you to think there's no way he could have made that shot that's wasn't even lined up good how the fuck do you know if you don't know anybody who knows anything about rifles knows there's no way you could know cuz if all you have to do is whack it do you hear I'm going to bring you the rifle and just bump it with your elbow funny knocking into a wall when you're handing it to someone that's going to be off so you didn't you take it to a range we're going to prove definitively that he could have never made that shot cuz this scope is off. 6 inch to the left wow Case Closed there's no way people know whether or not that scope was on when he was pulling that trigger there's no way you know when I went to Dealey Plaza it's so big in our public imagination it's not you go to is like this is it it's tiny so small and then you go up to the museum

I have an extra two x's in the street and you think that's just right there I can shoot that was a narrow I bet you could give me some time to give me some time you put a Target right where that thing was right with that Lincoln was and and you put me in that window I guarantee I hit that Target with a bow that you couldn't do that with a with a rifle could have done it he's certainly could have shot at Kennedy

he also was involved in a lot of shady shit it wasn't like he was just some dentist somewhere and he told me this all the time that such a short distance ahead when you're coming up Houston Street and going left I always wondered why he didn't shoot him there when can't you the cars coming right at him it was the window he was in the window on the left hand side he's over there no no no no it's it's right there that would have been a cleaner shot it seems to me head-on you mean yeah yeah

we want to shoot him in the back of the heck does it have that I like a sniper it's maybe Panic it's that upper right ya look at that time is Dallas couple times ago but when we drove through it it's like it Siri how it all happened right here I've been twice there is always a conspiracy people walking around all right give me the whole story and he was very entertained here to grassy knoll to pick any fans favorite dumb conspiracy is they believe that the driver turn around shot right past this the best way those are the Fate space is fake people get a bunch of really wacky conspiracies whenever anything happens in the news whatever it is you know anything and everything to go back to this cognitive dissonance like princess die in a cause of death

driving speeding no seatbelt he was drunk yet the driver of her car was wow I didn't I didn't know that's right so drunk driving speeding hit and she wasn't wearing a seatbelt I wasn't you want to see if I weigh tens of thousands of Americans died in automobiles every year seems like there should be another MI5 in the royal family and the Arabs in the Palestinians I would everybody was so here's an example of an absolute conspiracy that we know is was a conspiracy Jamal khashoggi the guy was murdered he went to the Saudi Embassy in Turkey they had him set up they flew in 15 people and including a guy who was a

he was a forensics expert and he was an expert in and present forensics evidence and they think that he was there to make sure that there was nothing left behind this is the official story is they strangled him caught him up and they there's even recordings a parent that goes all the way to listen to the top of seeing him out of the body double video and then he he entered into there and there's 15 different dudes they were waiting for him they killed them chop them up and there's videos of those those guys leaving with suitcases and they say that the suitcases had his body in them chopped up

yeah it's um

it's real but that's also you know Saudi Arabia didn't get away with some pretty sketchy shit and it seems like nothing's going to happen right people to people got fired well I have to say on this that Michael Moore's film 911 he made the point I was the first I'd seen make the point that the Saudi Arabia family got out of the United States on 9/12 when all flights are cancelled yes and that bush let them and now here we see that in a trump doesn't want to condemn the Saudis cuz they're our allies so there's a bunch of shit in there it goes all the way back to the 911 and we know the Saudis support bankrolled the most of the 19 hijackers yeah that's the kind of conspiracy that we should be paying attention. That Bush was involved in made it happen in this secret this is the kind of shit that really happens in politics of people are our bank in each other so we have to be

to each other and over and over look at me like when Trump said you know Putin murders people everybody does it yeah we do some terrible things to do in the end that's to what is true and you know I guess he's got a point but the yeah it's it's just so there's so much money so much money involved with Saudi Arabia this article I was reading a cited to criminologist manual Eisner in a study of 1,500 monarchs in 45 monarchies across Europe between 8600 and 1800 found that about 15% of them 227 were assassinated correspondido homicide rate of about a thousand four hundred thousand ruler years 10 times the background rate in history are pretty, this is how power often changes hands before liberal democracy spread and after 1970s this was not uncommon that we shouldn't be surprised if people believe this kind of stuff

cuz yeah there's some truth to that extremely unsettling to folks because what he was killed for they think there's there's two different versions of it right there just Kiddin film he was killed for criticizing the Saudi Arabian government but he was also there's also that he was criticized because he was aware or he was killed rather because he was aware of some Spy software that's being utilized in that if he wrote a story about the Spy software being utilized by the Saudi Arabian government that would be a huge disaster I'm sure there's a lot we don't answer yours by conspiracy theories when you get elected president they take you in the back room to go okay here's what's actually going on Ocean I can't close get Mountain Dew's okay but but because I was opposed the troops out of Afghanistan

we know this and I think that something like that does gone maybe not quite so secretly but just that you know you and I don't need to know these things I need to know basis and the president does when their candidates they say I'll whatever they say to get elected and then they get in there okay I didn't realize the Saudis are doing this and this and this and we need them for the six reasons over here okay they did this bad thing if we can dance and then they're not going to do these things over here so I better lay off the condemnation that kind of stuff I suspect does happen a lot I think you're correct I think I suspect the same thing what's fascinating to me about Trump is that he doesn't seem to care at all about violating protocol or about releasing information that he probably shouldn't be he's already accidentally released top-secret information I would just feel like if he knew for sure some some stuff like he would be the last guy you would want to trust with that

right I know but you know this thing about him wanting to pull the troops out of Syria there's got to be another story behind there like you know Putin maybe said look we got to take care of our business here in Syria we're going to take care of Americans over here and you get your Trump Tower in Red Square when when I'm gone that kind of stuff is the sort of thing that will come out in a equivalent of WikiLeaks in 20 years will like the Gulf of Tonkin okay that's what it what do you think conspiracy theory that says that Trump has There's Something video of trump getting peed on people that way to us yesterday that was published like some serious newspapers they like more than willing to put stuff like that out there because they don't like them to the pull that trigger a little bit quicker Maybe

as much as I hate Trump. We would love to have George W bush compromising material on Trump

but but what did he actually say I don't know yes this is about the pee tape says Matthew yglesias Vox what is it from violets box do you find it odd that these conspiracies not only do it seems like it's a part of our mind the way our brains work our Collective mindset is that we tend to be attracted to conspiracies and we tend to hope that those are true more than we hope a simple explanation exists

it depends on who your group is and do they have power or not so we know from studies that people that are out of power tentukan conspiracy theories about that those in power. The conspiracy theories in the ones that are out so you're going to get more conspiracy theories about Republicans when the Democrats are out of power from left-leaning people and vice-versa blacks more likely to think that the CIA planted crack cocaine in the inner cities and then those sorts of things conservatives are more likely to see her big government conspiracies Liberals are more likely to fear big corporate conspiracy theories there may be elements of true that all of these things but the ones you're latch onto have to do with how much power you perceive the other guy has that you don't have and therefore they must be doing something to get that that I can't do on the outside and so we tend to misperceive how much control and power people really have in positions of power CEOs politician

until I usually they don't have as much control and power as we think they do and people that get in there that I can't I don't have this kind of controller power I thought I would when I got here too many things that have two checks and balances that are in place up so you can't do these things on your own you really need a group of people to conspire along with you so you need to have these Frank discussions with some sort of an understanding that you have to keep this a secret right more like 12 guys and London going to control the world are they going to do that I mean who do you call to start a war cause inflation or whatever more likely it's like in the Cuban Missile Crisis where you have Jaheim back and forth back and forth back and forth okay look we're going to give you the missiles in Turkey if you take the missiles out of Cuba and it just ends up being some boring little thing that dissolves the tension that could have been World War 3

wow just this little thing and so much of History turns on those little so in a way we got lucky there but not just luck I mean Kennedy and Khrushchev both wanted to untie the knot in a cruise ship sent a memo to Kennedy saying you have pulled on this rope and I have pulled on this rope and I don't know if either of us can untie it but here's an idea that's when he floated that you take the missiles out of turkey and and I was just watching this Netflix documentary on this and there was a thing about Castro sent a memo to cruise ship saying light em up your comrade we are ready to die for the cause you can just new Call of Cuba and nuke America I don't care we're ready to die in Cruces

is that Astro YouTube

I think they talked about this in this. This was during the times of operation Northwood when they were going to blow up a drone jetliner and blame it on the Cubans Cuban Friendly's to taquan Tana Mobay and use it as a motivation to get us into war that the Castro was a fast any case because that guy kept that place 90 miles away from Miami he kept that place running on his own until he died as crazy really is crazy that he was able to pull that off while you're a lot of support economic support otherwise it and I would not have succeeded but still it's so not said he was so close and he's running a military dictatorship essentially a boat ride away yeah I was just a few months ago for conference since I went to visit their World War II museum what we would call the World War II museum massive building and they call it the Great Patriotic War Museum

whole thing is kind of a tribute to Russia liberated Europe from the Nazis from their perspective they'd lost 27 million people you Americans you in a 500,000. Then go to Berlin right next to the museum called the victory Museum the Museum of the Great Patriotic War is a History Museum located in Moscow yet

and they have this room with these chains hanging down with little crystal balls at the end of them that represent the 27 million people and it's it's it's very moving go back to that look how beautiful and yes it's quite stunning those rooms that you go into it's like a diorama of some battle that they thought I recognized from their perspective they they they won the war not the British American and French we did a little bit from their perspective but the fact that they lost so many people 27 million what's going on with that picture terms of their contribution in terms of the loss of lives so you know what other people are thinking and what they went through while it's again

no it's very similar to what we were talking about earlier in terms of the distribution of the news it would be very nice if there was one absolute new source you can trust with no slant on it whatsoever when it comes to the distribution of History it's of course Always written in a way that favors the people that are riding it yeah I was just talking to Rachel Kleinfeld you have a podcast now does have a few months pictures without doing dialog science Salon science Salon yet it's okay so I'm interviewing stage order and it's about failed States and what happens to them and why corruption spread so quickly and then how'd it basically squelch that so like after the Soviet Union fell apart you know

Les mots basically took over and it's like the Russian mafia Republic of Georgia fell apart fairly quickly and then you know so one of the reasons people apparently like Putin is he kind of came in and squelched all that and maybe one of his point of popularity is that at least we have one bad guy who's kind of keep you in order instead of all these little mafioso type gangs and I said so to tell if he actually held an election he might win it's like it's hard to say because we don't have a good source of what the Russian people really like Brian we have the Russian media saying the Russian people love Putin okay do we know that's an accurate survey that is pretty astonishing what kind of a control he has over the country though

yeah it's it's powerful I went to visit Hawaii salt Lenin's tomb in the mausoleum there he still still he's looking pretty waxy to me all that's right you can actually see his body or what's left of his body and what's left of it yet another Netflix series I just binged watched Trotsky called Trotsky and this is a russian-made film It's a drama and it's really good and it really shows it's interesting cuz he he was on the outs all the way until just recently got to stall and had him assassinated and then stall on Adam literally airbrushed out of photographs just for a while it was Lenin Stalin and Trotsky is the big three and then when Landon had a stroke it was like the taste of Stalin and Trotsky who's going to take over when the boss is gone and so the kind of showed how that happened it happened again conspiracy it's all conspiracy no one knows what's really going on here you've been in this business this debunking conspiracy conspiracies in the sky

take business for quite a long time do you feel like there is any Improvement in the critical thinking skills of people in their ability to recognize the fallacies and the the flaws and the way their approaching these things hard to say I formation by before the fewer people believe in these pseudo-sciences and quackery in paranormal but it's not a client or not that dramatic over the last few decades there are deprogramming bias deprogramming studies and programs in which you can teach people about the confirmation bias in science I buy sits on the problem with that was as they work really well to teach people how to spot the Pisces and other people they're really good at that but he said what what about you fortunately I'm above all that

I'm sad that I'm the reason these days are done is cuz like we have a problem with climate change will climate deniers how do we get people who don't know anything about it to ship from I'm a skeptic to believer at and it show it turns out just piling on facts isn't going to do it no people's Identity or trapped in their initial initial statements if they think that 911 was a conspiracy their their identity is somehow inexorably connected to this conspiracy being a fact GIF and then you argue it is if you're arguing your own value it's it's a really weird thing that happens when people start talking about ideas if the very rarely find people that are disconnected from their ideas the front we could point out that something is incorrect and they thank you I didn't know that like most people aren't that confident now or aren't they just look at the wrong with it feels like a personal attack on them but also as if it if it's a

Alief reclaimer Theory or whatever affiliated with a political or moral or religious value the people autocorrect in their brains when they are global warming they hear liberalism communism capitalism control that is one of the weirder aspects of tribal thinking right the point that Al Gore Selman Inconvenient Truth was a terrible thing for the environmental movement cuz it Associated global climate change with liberalism the Democrats and all that and say okay I see what's going on it's at Al Gore left-liberal stuff yeah that's right yeah well he's right and then another sense is also the amount of profit that Al Gore made both from that and from some other endeavors the eyesight they said that he's one of the first green billionaires

what's his carbon footprint right so we're very tribal we commit to political parties are religious beliefs and we stick by them pretty closely pretty tightly no and the facts get filtered through those understandably what to do about it and that's that's under debate is so how do we get people to leave religion is 100 ways you know Leah Remini doing her show on Scientology anyone watching it with a Tonka I'm not joining this church and its if you had a thousand of those for bad beliefs hopefully we've see that shift I would love it if there was some sort of a secular option A community-driven ethics driven morality driven friendship driven thing where people could go

instead worship maybe just appreciate life and it sort of confirmed some of the best aspects of of community and culture and who we are and do it in a place where makes you really conscious of it so cuz I think there's some real benefit to people going to church and everyone in the community community dresses up nice and you sort of agreeing hey we're committed to being civil into being kind and worshiping and that is believe in a higher power if it is it is it empowers people to think this way and it gives people a motivation to be kind and it would be nice if there was a secular option like that that is decentralized is not run by one person wants a bang and everybody's wife and taking all the money cuz that's what happened you can set your clock by these guys it's unbelievable is something like that

we have Church's well they have meeting places in adult churches more broadly the Universalist Unitarian Church that is a church and it's a religion but it there pretty secular there like secular Jews you know they believe in that culture and the and the ceremony in the rituals I've been to a number of these humanist and Universalist Unitarian churches ceremonies they light candles they sing hymns to Newton testimonials about how I lost my religion and to me I didn't really like it that much cuz I was never crazy about church in the first place but a lot of people clearly get value out of this and Human Instead of don't believe in God the gathering together once a week and being with fellow like-minded people that has a lot of psychological value that connects people if that's one of the great things about community centers in neighborhoods and it just connects people in like a We're All in This Together by Bob see you tomorrow by Mary you know what does it mean

there's something there's something great about that was church that mean I was having this conversation with Bill Burr about this reason we were talking about it and he's like I don't I don't really want to go to church but I think there's some there's something to that to go into a place and and putting your face and all the people around you in the higher values and morals and ethics that you're all agreeing to it it's back to the self-help thing is sort of a reminder every week be a good person don't forget to donate to charity hear some local charities here these are our causes be a good I'll be good be nice to your spouse and your children is on him. So people can I leave a little charged up for the week on Sunday the back to Monday and that's probably been drawing those big Tony Robbins things to write but there's a community of us together all try to do better. Try to better ourselves and optimize Our Lives

that's not bad now of course people like mature doctors appointment but can we decouple all the supernatural nonsense from the social committee yes we can't but don't you think that there's less there's less of an acceptance of the supernatural nonsense and there was a hundred years ago and it seems to be a trend those were the number of the percentage of blacks were no religious affiliation that used to be in the single digits it's now 25% of all Americans 33% of Millennials those born after 1991 and it looks like probably with a generous to be closer to 50% people born after 1995. They're not necessarily atheist agnostic Skeptics but they don't affiliate with any religion and that's good because in the sense that he knows it's it's religious behavior that causes some of these social problems that we encounter me now with his lawn for example you know somebody privately believes in God or whatever and they don't

act on it okay I guess I don't care and that's if they acting on your beliefs that cause of the problem on other people and education Science Education particular well that's one of the real problems they're having in Europe when they're dealing with people that are coming over from other countries where they have a different set of values in the same women in skirts and they're calling them whores and then he's like you're in England right price different set of rules over here has interesting some horrible sin there seemed the decay of the marble fiber the moral fiber of their environment these are primitive beliefs having to do with men wanting to control women's Reproductive Rights. There's evolutionary reasons for this yet Brett and Heather on here and they gas playing that beautifully

you want to control women's reproduction doesn't mean we should do that the opposite yeah and so I make the case one of my Scientific American, an abortion that in a mutual goal between pro-lifers and pro-choicers is to reduce the amount of abortions we we know the formula educate women Empower women birth control birth control access to birth control and so on it just happens automatically the pregnancy rates go down there for abortion rates are going to go down we know how this to do this but still people that pro-lifers going to just start climbing but it's a moral issue that they take the moral out of it I understand it's a human life or potential human whatever you want to argue I get all the take that out let's just work to the common goal of reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies my favorite one that still exist is abstinence the idea that they're trying to push this on these essentially when you especially talk about real young people that are just getting horny for the

first time I mean they're on drugs there are 18 year old kids and you try to get them together and no one's in the room and they're reaching crazy with hormones and they're both supposed to keep their clothes on like the look man it's not going to happen but it's not going to happen you got to let that go and tell them that God wants them to be absent like are you sure why did he give us these God damn hormones What's Happening Here There studies on how effective abstinence-only programs or Chastity pledges in these sorts of things how effective are not affected their worse because then people go into it like a date or something I'm prepared to start going at it and then they don't have protection well there's also the thing we're Catholic schools like when I was a kid we always knew and like this is why we're talking about

everyone do the girls who went to all girls catholic schools were freaks cuz they were never around boys to school with girls and their everything is suppression suppressive suppressor press they just can't wait to get out there like they find a boy and they go crazy like everybody knew it I mean this is not something that I knew as a comedian or is a person who studies culture is a fourteen-year-old right everyone knew the girls went to all School all-girl Catholic schools were freaks opposite intended effect there was a British study I found 10000 women who said they got pregnant without having sex Temecula Bible bro it's hilarious do everything but anal or whatever is it while we didn't actually have sex in like Flynn

sex it right having sexual relations here is he I did not have sexual relations with that woman is a landscape intercourse penis vagina that's it everything else is just hanging out prey yep well it's the the the need for belief systems is it's so I mean it it helps people that belief systems if they're positive in their objective in their well-reasoned in there and these are you know back by facts and knowledge it helps but the need for belief systems is so strong that will take a belief system that Swanky is because we we have that desire the brain of Horrors of vacuum of belief

do I put it in in something's going to be in there so let's try to put in those brains rational science-based values and we had those seven humanist values that you know the humanist movement is now about a sent almost a century old you know Universal human rights Universal human rights declaration to celebrate his 50th Anniversary you can get the first people to agree you don't have to head to the correct philosophical arguments to get there but you know just everybody should be treated equally under the law can we at least agree on that yes okay I mean if you start off with you think her makes this point in the like me now if you start off with Jesus died for our sins that's the most important value value to me you're not going to get a cream in a room full of you end diversity you got to start with something super basic and general everybody's is the deserves equal rights okay yeah and then you start to build from there and we could do that do you find you've been in this for a long time and you've done some really valuable work it's been it's it's

so nice that there's someone like you that really has dedicated their life to really Illuminating truth exposing all the flaws and people singing do you feel like the reception of this is your it's easier now or it's added there's momentum behind this kind of thinking I do for sure it's it's more open putt putt part of my I have a distorted view I'm from California and I grew up in Southern California where pretty liberal Society here so I'm sympathetic to people to write me from Oklahoma or Arkansas and I'm in this little town everybody the only question is which Christian church do you go to ER the Baptist of the Presbyterians everyone in his family everyone at work is a Believer and and he's an atheist okay so I haven't faced anything like that you know what I'm a middle-aged white guy you know I don't I do have white privileges I know and so I I am sympathetic to others but I do think across-the-board things are more tolerant and we know this from

studies on interracial marriage for example is not even an issue anymore the gay rights thing has changed very rapidly I mean that was stunning how quickly social attitudes changed after the spring remember in 2013 Hillary Clinton was still saying that you didn't believe in gay marriage is right now so I predict you know like the gay marriage thing this no one will you be talking about in another year or two little change so quickly across the board the acceptance now of atheist humanist secularists agnostics whatever is become much much better in most places there still setting course of Islamic countries work now he would they burn me and you they burn Catholics cuz he picked the wrong religion there still that Improvement there in those countries Because the Internet with younger people when they're being exposed to these new ideas

a big pool was on how supportive you would be a Sharia law and these are pretty scary like a third to a half of Muslims living in Muslim countries said they would support Sharia law and if you look at three of you know it's it's pretty scary but very anti-democratic a liberal attitudes about rights and women and things like that so there I think the prediction would be yes Millennials and I Jenner's when they get into power than maybe not just political power but like controlling talk shows radio shows TV show scripts things like that most I think most of change happens in people's minds from Ink locating it from culture pop culture of this how you talk about other people like if you Dawkins makes this point that you can tell pretty much down to the deck when a book was written by the way they talk about women like a novel talk about women or blacks or whatever going back say at Century you could tell that was 1930s the way they're talking about Jews

and that's the kind of thing that shifts very slowly you hardly notice it but it from people like you Comedian says you tell certain jokes are you say certain things and becomes more acceptable scripts for television shows and films and all of this kind of watch it and it sort of it and just think yeah you know we shouldn't be saying those kinds of things about women and Jews and blacks or whatever cuz stop doing that and I consciously you just kind of soak it in

so I think you still need laws we have to sometimes change the lawn to say okay it's now it illegal to discriminate against Jews or whatever you can't do that. People may still want to do that how do we change their thinking well if that's the bottom of thing that takes course of decades maybe a century generation sometimes because the new young kids have to see the flaws in the way their parents are thinking and then they have access to this information and form their own opinions on these things hopefully bakes space on an objective reasoning and then reality in and all the awesome stuff that's available now my stepdad was in the Pacific War and the way he talked about Japanese you know when I was a kid in the sexy like a whole lot about 1947 and 1960 that's a tiny. Of time it's so short yet I mean it's really like you know when we're talking about the early 2000s write the Magical World War II happen during the

early 2000 right yet it's hard it's hard to remember it's it's hard to put it into perspective is going to accelerate moral progress will happen fast really good happen faster for women than it did for blacks it happen faster for gays and it did for women that I may be whatever is next animal rights or you know something like this will accelerate even more maybe trans rights are supposed to say about the push back against this idea that we are living in the safest time ever and if there is an absolute Rend Lake Pinker gets criticized about this where people say know the world is still not safe for these people for this for this group for that group in for you saying that the world so just shows your white privilege that uses white male perspective and I'm on board with with Steve all across the board on these things he's got the day that it depends on the question you're asking you know it's like if you say yeah but my life is not better not talk about your life the question is is society getting better OK of course there's

ups and downs this group is doing better than that group and yes there's still some racial discrimination and yes they're still clearly anti-semites as we've seen recently but across-the-board if you take like the last two hundred years which direction of the trend lines going they're all going in the right direction so we're talking about so it's it's a little unfair to The Thinker to say well you're blind to that thing of it he's not talk about that one thing they're stuck in but just across the board I agree listen man thanks for everything thanks for everything you do thanks for all your articles and books and thanks for coming on here and please let people know your podcast once again is called Skeptics the lawn yet science Alliance Alliance art science salon and yeah so skeptical still going and social media Michael Shermer is my Twitter feed your Instagram as well I don't know I don't do that

oh okay I'm going to start posting as of today okay I will just take an extra minute or two a giant waste of time though don't get sucked in

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