#1234 - David Sinclair

January 29, 2019

David Sinclair, Ph.D., A.O. is a Professor in the Department of Genetics and co-Director of the Paul F. Glenn Center for the Biology of Aging at Harvard Medical School. He is best known for his work on understanding why we age and how to slow its effects. https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/sinclair/people/sinclair.php

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all right my guest today is David Sinclair and David Sinclair is he's a professor at Harvard and he is at the Forefront of anti-aging and we had a fucking great talk I really really enjoy it he's really interesting and very cool guy who had tons of really fascinating information about where we're anti-aging technology is the current moment so please welcome David Sinclair

The Joe Rogan Experience

David

so how are you sir great thanks thanks for being here man appreciate it thanks having you don't really looking forward to talking to you very much so this is a fascinating subject to be anti-aging the idea that you'll be able to stop aging or even possibly pull it back or if they're very least slow down what do you think

I think that's all on the table we've been doing this for years in the lab now we can just go to figure out how to do it and people when I talk to someone like you was an actual research scientist of the stuff I was want to know what are you doing yourself how long have you got like what do you do on a daily basis I would have figured you were for about 4142 when it's kind of you know my brother's been negative control and he's he's really look like shit well I can't say that but some people say that he doesn't look as young as mean he's about three and a half years younger so what are you doing personally your most of the time I mean a bunch of companies to make these drugs are reality but tailey I try to keep her healthy weight

I do intermittent fasting which is pretty easy cuz I'm so busy I forgot to eat how many hours to give yourself every night late night snacking but I try to skip breakfast and lunch but I'm busy so I'm in night either but that seemed to be good cuz I study came out a couple weeks ago at least in my eyes that it's not what you wait it's when you wait that's most important for longevity really and went when being when like what's doesn't actually matter if you eat a lot in the morning or a lot at night I like nighttime eating but you need a. During the day at least if your mouse probably feel human where you're hungry and then put your body in a defensive mode and these are the things that we've been studying my life for the last 20 years what are the processes that

diet and exercise do Frosty keep us healthy in why does calorie restriction and intermittent fasting make animals live so much longer and we think we figured out a lot of pot of how that works and now we making out with molecule is the is the idea that you can mimic it with molecules and it'll be as effective as intermittent fasting I think the molecules will be better and finally that when we had them onto a healthy diet and exercise in the animals they do even better if that's supercharged Mouse now when you add them on to the mice do you also add them on with intermittent fasting and is there an additional benefit are we to we to I wanted the first molecules that infants molecules that we on for is Resveratrol from red wine that molecule discovered it in my 30s at least linkit aging

but we sure it was the if you give it to a half an ounce there was healthy as a thin Mouse baby just as long as they get heart disease and all the other bad stuff then what we did was interesting we gave it to the mice either everyday make an effort or let them skip a meal every day so that they were fed every other day and that combination of his virtual plus every other day feeding we had the longest lifespan we'd ever seen and it was so was additive same with exercise if we give our latest molecule cold in a man to a mouse and we exercise it it'll run even further than it could with either of those aligned so it's not an excuse to sit around and just eat chips and watch TV it old man's health lifestyle did you further than what you could get naturally

so in any are you seeing a benefit in addition so is the idea to compound all those things together exactly right so I do I eat healthy I try to skip meals I also take supplements and in fact most of my colleagues are in the field of Aging for anti-aging is as people call it so I take anime every morning what is NM a good question so let me take a quick step ashore about 20 years ago when he can run to you and a team of us at MIT discovered a set of genes that controls Aging in yeast cells just bruised East we find beer and bread and those jeans a cold sore to ins and there are seven of them in our bodies 5 in Youth and what they do is they protect all open isms on the planet plants bacteria humans from deterioration and disease they're like the Pentagon they sense when we're hungry since when were exercising and they send out the troops to defend us so when you when you put more of these jeans into a

or mouse that live longer between 5 to 20% longer and so we think that these genes are responsible for the effects of dieting and exercise which is great what that means is we can chat with molecules so animate is one of those molecules so is Resveratrol that you can think of her as startled as the accelerator pedal for the sirtuin jeans and the enemy is the is a fuel and without fuel Reserve cholent works at Andaman is the gas in the car and a new molecules is commercially available some people start selling it on the internet talking and it's related to in our which is sold by a bunch of companies and are yet nicotinamide riboside is a supplement that raises the levels of a molecule called in a d strongest make a shopping list so they get their social Tunes need and AD

to work without them out of work in fact if you don't have any ID in your body you be dead in about 30 seconds it's a really important molecule but as we get older we lose an 80s about the time you're fifty like I Almost Do you have that Hof levels once we had when you're 20 so that's not good and the sirtuins they don't protect the body without high levels of NAD so what nmn does and saw the molecule cocaine are which both you can get on the internet they boost the body's levels of NAD back up to youthful levels again and if we give him some ice these molecules tea tomorow ice worms least they live longer and they serve healthy now what level are how many milligrams are you taking of these things and a man is is something I get from myself I'm not selling anything so I take a gram of an amen in the morning based on clinical trials being shown that that will resonate with or without food I take a little bit of yogurt that I might

I'm just a while is there a tall is great but it's really insolubles like brick dust so in yogurt will dissolve take another half a gram of his article and how much half a gram yeah it's a it's a powder I have a few killer is left over from clinical trials in my basement so yeah that that's going to last me a few decades and then I also take at night some metformin which is probably the most radical thing that I take which is up but prescribed the whole drug for diabetes Metformin met met and prescribable Drug so you'd but you don't have diabetes I do not but you take it for

for preventing cancer heart disease Alzheimer's an aging method formin

and some studies of 10,000 people and more it's been showing that people who take Metformin you even if I have diabetes are protected against other diseases of age and even Frailty and so most scientist is likely to extend your life span it's just that the FDA doesn't let you have it for aging cause aging isn't a disease yet so do you have to get diabetes to get it or do you have to get a sneaky doctor well when call is sneaky doctor but the doctor typically have to be convinced cuz they don't keep up with the literature it's it's off label and how much of that as well which is about a a low dose of some diabetics type 2 Grand so it's not crazy amount is there any side effects the good news is that it's extremely rare that you get sick from any of these molecules are in millions of patients around the world

nobody's getting sick the worst you'll have far as I can tell is a stomach upset and I get that which is actually helpful if I'm hungry I lose my appetite but I think the downside is extremely low and that the upside is anything's better than what's coming and what is the mechanism that metformin is operating okay so that so this is a great thing is that the last 20 years we have figured out we scientists figured out that there are Universal Regulators of aging from yeast to worms to my send you north three main Pathways that we figured out respond to what exercise and one of them is called ampk and this is a a Target metformin and so I'm active when I take metformin I'm activating my NPK which will send out the troops

this are two ones I mentioned that the second of the pathways and so I take anime and resourceful for that and then third one is called mtor which is a pathway in the body responds how many amino acids how much make your eating and it will also protect the body if you tweak it just the right way and is only besides getting low amounts of protein the only way to effect that Pathways with a drug called rapamycin which is which is a little dangerous to try and is is used for immunosuppressant so it's not something that I would recommend and I don't take it

wow so this is your daily routine along with what would kind of like diet to follow while I try to not eat too much it's P0122 meals a day I avoid sugars and carbs I try to run once a week I do workouts on the weekend like you I love so nice I like to put my buddy in some temperature stress I got hate and then I jump in a cold bath back and forth that that works well for yeast we can do that in the lab and night they live 30% longer so

is all that to cryotherapy therapy just to do I do today sorry don't want ya will take you take it down the street there's a great one because it's there's different kinds and some of them are from the neck down where they using liquid nitrogen the other ones they actually freeze the air so when they're they're using the nitrogen to freeze the air and they're pumping an air that's 240 degrees below zero and you're going to do about 2 minutes I do three because I do it all the time but it's awesome I do three and then I take 10 minutes off when I go back in for another three

it makes sense in what you doing to your body when you do that we think is to activate these longevity Pathways like the sirtuins yeah and that's really the trick is to activate your body's defenses against aging theories about aging you got to throw them out most people at parties will tell you all antioxidants free radicals DNA damage for mutations that is all for the most part in correct that antioxidants cause DNA damage repairs DNA damage correct height of Milan AUX input it doesn't work by being in his house what does it work what is the pathway steps on the accelerator pedal of Easter to an enzyme okay and so it's directly controlling the body's defenses against aging so as we discussed it or as people disgusted as an antioxidant that was just a mild form of in a box and an accident but it didn't so much more right and we know this

if you create a yeast cell or a warm or a mouse and then you knock out the gene for the sirtuin Now resort old doesn't help the animal anymore that's interesting because when people talk about wine that that's the one thing they say the Resveratrol is an antioxidant really good for you this is one of those never goes away and still feels a billion dollar industry but what fun is that the molecules in plants like wears virtual we think that produced by plants because the plants are benefiting from the stress we call it for me since a little bit of stress is good for you what doesn't kill you makes you stronger kind of thing and hormesis was discovered about 60-70 years ago when people with spraying herbicides on plants in a little bit of oversight actually made them stronger and we think that these molecules in plants are similar that they make the plant stronger during times of stress so if you stress a grape that's for wine making you get great wine but you also get a lot of Resveratrol and so when we ingest that Resveratrol from the plants we get the

health benefits for the plants are activating the search to involve ways and we have the soto-innes and I activate office as well interesting so low-carb low-sugar any specific type of protein do you limit your mom protein I enjoy eating mammals just as much as anybody but I try to avoid them for the two main reasons one is that there's this tmao molecule it seems to cause heart disease tmao

disease epidemiology studies I forget what I do recall that the study was able to give the tmao to animals and they developed heart disease and somehow causing I forget exactly how it might be damaging The genome that's my recollection omnivores or Predators I think the red meat is the culprit so are they giving us to rats or they giving us to it was a male study again so I might be different from humans from animals is that there's a lot of me know is in there and it's a lot of meat and so if you have high levels of amino acids it will activate this mtor pathway one of those three on Jigglypuff lights and you don't want that dude I want that don't want that cuz mtor has evolved two cents times of adversity and stress and hunger so why do people see a performance benefit when they consume branched chain amino acids

really good question so in the short run just like taking testosterone it will give you

performance benefits but we think in the long run it'll actually come back to bite you so how will blind branched chain amino acids come back to bite you so branched chain amino acids will activate the Central Parkway and

when we do that in animals would actually we were just at last been so it's the opposite you want it keep those levels low mean for a dummy like me it seems counterintuitive cuz it was making you perform better currently you would see you think specially something like amino acids natural part of the human body you would think that would be beneficial you're adding to your body something that needs you would but but what you should consider is that it's a trade-off theory that probably correct it's the some Tom cook with Terror Theory called the Disposable summer and Al bodies want to do one of two things we would want to grow really fast and reproduce fast

build up a lot of muscle cells divide that's great in the short run you know you prefer tile you can run but actually that accept expensive hunkering down and building a long-lasting body it's a trade-off overtime and so animals that grow fast and reproduce fast like a mouse will only have a short lifespan or as a whale that grows slowly and reproduce slowly Bulova long top interesting so the idea is your you're limiting your calories is a limiting your carbohydrates are limiting your protein you're limiting your amino acids but you're ramping up at all these beneficial molecules

write these these Pathways that have evolved since the beginning of Life to make us live longer during adversity so we can Thrive when X come back that you could do take into consideration quality of life vs. length of life like is there a like a sweet spot it's hard to ask the mice how I feel but they would you test them and we do Frailty studies and we can see they got better memory and I can run further on a treadmill and get stronger. I think they see better and you know we think that that probably means they're happy as well and when you're taking in protein so if you're not eating mammals so you eating a lot of fish if fish is fine white meat I indulge I like chicken. Going to Steven's fine not too much of it but I'm trying to eat as many vegetables specially the colored ones for the reason that I said which is a few reasons why is it you don't need as much protein as you otherwise would you get vitamin

don't forget those molecules from plants that we think make you healthy so resourceful just one of a bunch of polyphenols that plants make when they're stressed and when plants are stressed they go colored so that the Bulls and the Reds Blues yeah those are molecules that are generally healthy and I think a few scientists he thinks this but I think that we evolved as animals to sense the Plant World and went out Food Supplies stressed out then I'll bodies since that bite when we ingest then we get these molecules like was Oracle and we've evolved to sense that and we get the benefits of longevity has a side effect

it is so this is really fascinating to me because the idea that you're trying to balance out that the site that the concept of a mouse growing very quickly but dying quickly as well vs. something that can extend and live longer and and be more vital or have more Vitality for a longer. Of time quote so hit his the great things that we believe we figured out why not just why but how this all works what are the genes and Pathways in the body that control is we can have our cake and eat it too we can at least in a mouse and probably in a human in a few years time and maybe even with these supplements will see we can trick the body into being hungry and being in adversity even if you're eating a lot or you're not exercising and so we can return slowly but if it eventually turning a mouse

in two more like a human so that you even though you can grow and reproduce quickly you still turn on these protective Pathways and little ones are the best example is the the nematode worm C elegans is being studied a lot for longevity and the mutations that make those worms live sometimes too and up to ten times longer are activating jeans that are normally only turned on when they hunkered down and turning to a little dour dollar rustage which means that they're they're not really free producing they just hibernating you can have a hibernation at benefits but still live a normal healthy life distance from manipulating genes right and the way the Breakthrough came so don't back in the 1980s it was antioxidants mutations still really didn't have a handle on what was going on in the idea that you could slow down aging with 1G no1drug was Ludacris cuz it's so complicated but now we know it from genetic studies

is that you can find mutations hundreds of them actually in organisms that LinkedIn lifespan so it's not as complicated as we thought what about myostatin Inhibitors and they've done with my sweet turn them on and off and they grow no super mice Hulk mice

I don't know did I believe they did I think that was one of the weird side effects well if you allow me to speculate as to why that might have happened is being bulky as good as well as good will increase metabolism it'll get rid of the fat in the fat is a real problem that will make you inflamed think that is one of the first things you can you just fat-shamed I Den table very very upset at you right now well build up muscle as well some people are overweight and have a lot of muscle and they're a lot better off when you classes I assume

I take it how are you and when you say the fat is bad do you get a new reaction over the last couple years do you find a way around saying it like that only get OK comments on my lectures but I wasn't saying fat people a bag of saying having found in your body cells a bad right here Milestone insufficiency produces 15% life extension in my stool yeah so those MileStat Inhibitors make the mice grow longer so you think that might have had an effect vs. affect their more bulky and they have more muscle tissue and they burn off more fat that's one Theory the other thing would be that some muscles are secreting molecules called my account into the bloodstream and we don't know what they are but when you exercise You Do release some of these and they may also be contributing to muscles are signaling to the whole body when you go for a run it's not that your muscles get next size

everything in your body gets an exercise by these communication molecule and that's why if you fuse an old mouse to a mouse you can have these benefits that the young Mouse and pots on the olden actually negatively vice versa when you safe by fuse you mean by taking the blood of the old mouse and putting into the Young by Rod together so that blood flows between them

yeah it's it's not so pleasant but they they don't seem to be too badly affected once they learn how to walk in sync drizzles now

by the way to all you listeners we don't do those experiments in my lab but when I say we I mean yes science is scientific Community as a whole if you have any about the startups that are actually taking the blood of young people and in injecting into the bodies of older folks

so don't think there's a scientific reason to say it won't work and the scientists were involved or some migrate colleagues very smart people I think it could work right now it's just a little bit out there for me to do what they doing actually treating people with neurological disorders allow these cops involved in probably 15 starts right now what we're trying to do is to treat diseases that aging and even rare childhood diseases because you can't treat aging as a business model there is no disease called Aging yet but anyway came back to the science I think that it's based on South science but the future is

I think a better way to go about this is to find what the actual molecules are in the blood and just make those don't give a whole kit and caboodle yeah you said this twice you think aging is a disease or maybe perhaps should be treated as disease are classified I will absolutely think aging should be classified as a disease that we should think of it as a disease and why shouldn't we everything else that goes on in the body of a time that's bad for us is considered disease did you know why aging isn't considered a disease because it happens to everybody exactly that's the only reason what happens to most people 90% of people in developed world but why is that a reason to say so it's natural we should just deal with it we just say that about cancer and we just ate about dying from infection when you say it happens to 90% of people in developed world what happens if the tent they die pipe house I guess okay so they die young ok just clarifying

I agree I mean it it said we'd issy's it's a it's a it's a problem right agency problem I saw an Old Gentleman yesterday and it was painful just to watch this poor guy walk hunched over and just struggling to move at an incredibly slow pace. Seems it first with the disease will it is an imagine if we were on a planet now you know an island where everybody at least 300 years and we show up and you and I in our life was trying to look older ready I got to look at us and say what is wrong with you guys need to treat you and urgently we need to call list and you type of syndrome Riot only because we all tend to go through this that we think it's acceptable but I would argue it's the biggest threat to

the healthcare system is biggest threat to World economy actually is the inability of us to treat people in their old age and keep them healthy now some people look at it a different way and their consideration is that there's an overpopulation problem as it is and folks like you want to want to walk around living to be 300 years old have a game kids you can create a mess right well I three kids but that's enough that's more than I was going to have but yet how much would the population growing

I'm actually working with the number of people to try and calculate this a couple of Economist in London that we working on so this is this really a problem I agree with you that if this comes and I would actually say when this comes when the sky is coming is the dozens of companies working on drugs The Sciences hear the website it's coming anyway so we have to deal with this how we going to deal with it well let's Festival understand what the future looks like we can't look backwards when I cuz no one's ever invented this stuff before so I have to look forward what's will look like it's not as bad as you might think if you stopped aging today and everybody just went on forever the population growth rate would be less than the rate of immigration now that's not like I'm going forever of course but what we find is as people healthier

especially in developing nations they have fewer kids so the calculation shows that it would eventually taper off so human population will taper off about 9 to 10 billion people and then stay there and that population will be the happiest healthiest people in the world are they predict that because I was having this conversation with someone the other day that as people become more affluent and Society becomes more urban people will have less less children and the population will stabilize that the theory behind this right I'll actually education is a major part of it just won women's education is the main thing but also just being healthier list of the wealth of a nation and buy women's education do you mean extended education so that they do they pursue careers is that the the idea or is it mean obviously most people understand how babies are made like where what is where is the education contributing to a lower population while it's my understanding is that the first thing you do if you if you had

young women is that they can make choices for themselves and they're not just subjugated and most men would like to have more so that's where the population is a real problem in Europe they actually a struggling to keep up with the population would that go to an aging tsunami so to speak same with your Pan the average farmer in Japan is 65 years old that got a problem child is about to head that way too and that's going to drag the economy of the planet down and it's made a real problem going to waste so much money on keeping older people alive for the last 10 20 years of their life with dementia Frailty I could be trillions of dollars just 50 trillion dollars just in this country alone they could be spent on figuring out how to solve global warming better education the environment saving the one third species that are becoming threatened that's why I think tackling agent isn't a selfish act it's probably the most generous that but I could give the planet

that's an interesting way of looking at it what populations as a whole and when you look at the world but where are the people living the longest and want

well it's debatable there were these blue zones I think many of your listeners will have heard about those but there are Pockets that have great genes but they also have great diets and Lifestyles and sewed up the best one that I'm familiar with is the island of Okinawa in Japan and by the way I used to follow you talking about diet and a couple of my good friends wrote a book about it so I was doing some fishing felt really great couldn't keep it up but those keep it up I had kids and all meals turn into pizzas and yeah unfortunately but I'm getting back then out that my kids are teenagers but y'all can all one state they live

into the hundred fairly frequently it's not one in a million it's like one and I think a thousand something so it's 10 times higher they they work most of their lives that physically active they file lost a lot and I have what a green leafy vegetables and that seems to be the secret and there's a they were selling something about their mineral-rich diet remember they were selling it was like a big thing for a while Coral Calcium and they were using that as an example of why the okinawans for living so long do you mean by that I do remember it yeah but in scientific circles we weren't really bothered with it like calcium is calcium right or something I just remember reading about the Okinawan sand that the speculation

laser healthy probably the best thing that they do is they don't overrate stop at 70%

yeah I'm a glutton that's my number one problem I just love to eat yeah yeah me too and I keep going once I'm in and I just want to just keep shoving it in my face but I've done a good job over the last few years at apron that off in the intermittent fasting I think is probably one of the best things I've ever done in terms of you know just maintaining energy levels maintaining body weight that kind of stuff yeah you look good so I think that's one of the best things that people can do what we've known for 70 or more years actually is a few calorie-restricted animals actually even you sell someone's they live longer and is the most robust way to to prevent cancer heart disease Alzheimer's in a mouse and so the intermittent fasting is just a way of making this calorie-restricted diet so what what is calorie restriction it's would you sing what you would your doctor would recommend for your body but reducing a fact about 20 to 30% so it's quite extreme that's not pleasant I tried that for a week gave up too hard but intermittent

nothing like yourself it it's doable it's not always pleasant but I think that's the best way to do it and with the mice it works just as well as calorie restriction which is pretty much always being a bit hungry now what other things are you looking at in terms of mitigating stress or like what what other factors are there that you have to keep an eye on yes Chris is a bad one

I try to take life in my stride don't get too worried about it remember what's important so my heart rate really goes up even under a really extreme circumstances and that that's about it I try to balance my life as best I can I don't go through airport scanners as much as I can and have x-rays these little things does the new ones aren't they like a radio wave yeah that I don't want to freak people out but the old style ones that were banned in Europe they were potentially damaging x-rays definitely try not to have as many as you can but flying is just as bad as an x-ray that's the problem I said I don't wanna go to the skin on the got quite upset cuz it's a bother but they said you know it's just as much damage to your body as the flight and so I said why do I want to double it

buy Scotch whisky but let me tell you why I think it's so bad because scan is going to change what we call the epigenome alarm people haven't heard of the epigenome do you know everybody knows it's your DNA the code of life is what regulates and reads those jeans at the right time today and so we we knew about DNA we know how to read that you know I'm pretty easily we can do that now on a moss ball sized device in a day the epidermis quite different the epigenome is the structure of how the DNA looped around it look at the chromosome you're not saying that you know me look really basically saying epigenome and what with what I think is causing aging is not that you're losing the DNA structure you know having mutations you actually changing the epigenome which is the

the reader of the chance to put it all the way come back disc for the young audience come back this car little things we used to put music on a mission of course the reason we switch to digital in first place is that it's very copyable and it doesn't wear out rise up a cassette tape in our people our age know that if you try to copy that thousand times this month left at the end

sub compact disc information is the genome the epigenome is the reader of the CD that little laser that goes around and what I think is causing aging is not the loss of the digital information but it's the Retard the analog pot and that's like a cassette tape it eventually runs out what we what's going on really is it yourselves a losing ability to read the right jeans the way they did when you were 20 and that's basically noise informational noise that gathers overtime until we end up with when were 80 is a compact disc or dvd that's scratched so the reader cannot read the right jeans at right time in the cells become dysfunctional and what we working on it how do you polish that CD on a DVD to get that information back again to that I think that's really the best way to reset your age and when posted yet but we're working on ways to actually reset

that genome actually get back the information that we once had been with 20 so what is happening to the epigenome when you go into those scanners well that's what we found is the biggest raptor if you could you know him is a a broken chromosome DNA brake and turn about scanners that's just an abundance of caution been x-ray will damage your DNA no question even going out in the sun move to a better that and we think that the cells reaction to that break heading to unwrap the DNA from its chromatin we call it and up and then we wrap it is what eventually disrupt the ability to read write unit right place so do you need damage is essentially a little scratch on on the DVD and that accumulates overtime so being out in the sun does that type of being out in the sun also is beneficial your body produces more vitamin D yeah well that's what is also a theory called antagonistic what's good for you when you're young comes back to bite you when you're old

so you might look good and feel good and get vitamin D when you're young but the accumulation of these scratches on the epigenome ends up for Malia and Australian originally in the stadium Now American industry I grew up in the street and son and I can tell you that you know most Australians look older than they should know ozone ozone and lack of sunscreen in the 1970s you guys have a whole Nails on over Australia what's that all about what you do what did the world do chlorofluorocarbons Usher spray it over Australia's and so ozone will up there well yeah that's the ozone layer is fairly important if you don't want to get singed by UV light yeah yeah well that's one of the first things I noticed when I went to Australia was there's all these son

cancer warnings skin cancer warnings everywhere but I thought it was cold but if you have an x-ray you going to damage your organs you can accelerate aging I believe in your body and it happened you caught avoid double strand breaks broken chromosomes happens all the time the trillions of cells in the body and it's happening all the time so if living is a problem flying flying is even worse about we working on his how do you get back that original information into the cell to make a cell not just believe it is 20 again but actually be 20 so what do you do we reprogram them there was set of genes that we we and others have found three main ones that when you put them into a cell or evening to Emmaus

they become younger again wow how far do you think you are from implementing this on human beings will say theoretically you could do it yourself theoretically what I wouldn't do that cuz I'm not crazy when we need to figure out the safety I don't want to become a giant tumor why was just use it on bad people time and 18 year old single woah yeah well yeah that that would be for someone else out someone else but hopefully no one would ever do that why not I agree with you that we want we want to see what happens if you just give him a free pizza or something there on death row right if you're there any murders do you want to be the first one to meet John my love but I'm saying if you're going to kill somebody like when it be a good idea to like oh hey will give you a 4 hours of TV a day

shoot you up with some stuff to make you younger if I was on death row had to go do it see what's up I don't watch TV and we recheck it what happens to the body so nursing home people do it to them right what can tell you what I wouldn't Force anyone but if somebody was blind or almost blind yeah I did now studies we're recovering eyesight really what about the damaged eyes from fighting

I can tell you what we talked and this is what we're riding up the publication now are we done a few things three things to the mice when is wave pinch their optic nerve and crushed it which is a test for growing neurons and I and we find it without reprogramming we can make the nerves be just like a a newborn baby that grow back and then we also tested on glaucoma pressure increase pressure in the mouse's I and they lose their largely the right side and we can recover that animals are just old mice that don't see very well and we also seem to improve their eyesight almost back to know, but I don't think we'll be going to nursing homes anytime soon. What we are doing is running a clinical trial on this so we're looking to do that in early 2020 and the clinical trial be on people with glaucoma or various eye issues the plan is glaucoma first but it could work for other damaged retinas as well even broken spinal cords were thinking of time wow

and that's just one part of the body imagine what it could potentially to the rest of us do you feel incredibly fortunate to be living in this century

I do everyday but I would love to live Next Century cuz it's going to be cold but your school as your kind of at the the tip of the spear pushing the stuff right now I hear you're going to be one of the guys to get to see the stuff get implemented from your actual own research where it didn't exist before that's pretty damn cool better than like living a hundred years now where you just take it for granted like a trust-fund kid

you know yeah but just imagine what you can do in a hundred years you can write well maybe you'll be here

where ya you might be a hundred fifty we'll see how he thinks there's a chance someone will be well it's it's a good chance you're going to be when you're the one who's going to know what was so here's my philosophy. I'm not going to let anyone try technology until I've tried it first really

why when I was taking a pregnant pause because you're you're currently doing something like that I'm not doing that that's a little dangerous but the others I've always wanted to know first my eyesight is starting to go cuz I'm 51 now and like whenever you like it when I fight to read this book I got a Nick christakis is book I'm sitting here reading this book if I don't have reading glasses on I got to do this it's a bit of a struggle going to be able to fix that

so potentially in a mice we can you can't delete books to read but the right side improves we can test that how do you do it there's a moving screen how do you know how do you test or not not how you test rather how do you improve your eyesight we put these reprogramming jeans into a virus which is already used to treat genetic diseases in the eye and we inject it straight into the mouse's eyeball this sounds like the beginning of a horror movie

yeah I think it's actually you're an awesome movie it's the awesome part that I'm so he's doing well if you're going blind right one injection from your doctor and then you take an antibiotic to in the jeans on for as long as you need

and get her eyesight back that's not her if we could all that's a pretty incredible how far away do you think you are doing it to humans 20/20 obeyed for safety study

if I took the crazy stuff the future is if this all goes well you have an injection in your vein let's say when you're 30 and in those viruses infect your body and I sit there dormant until you need them so when might you need them you might have a car accident turn them on and turn them on with jester and antibiotic in a drip pour in the pill or you start to lose your eyesight take it take an antibiotic so you put them in your body almost as an insurance policy and then you have the option to turn them on the future actually wow what we do in the mice now with every action we assume there's some

negative consequence or potentially negative consequence right

are we always assumed that, but it's not always right with the molecules that we've been testing for years now like him and we haven't seen any downside just longer endurance and protection so there isn't always a downside to these things in fact you just think in a man is replacing a molecule that we lose all the time as you get older it's just becoming it's failing natural process no downside exercising and dieting either

right of course and you said you run once a week is that with you you and you do do you lift weights as well right and when you do it do try to not go too hard burn yourself out too much

do you have a sweet spot yeah I do I do I try not to go too much that that's the trick with everything in life it's this a hormesis effect to get your body damaged enough that it can repair itself but give you the benefits without like having a lot of x-rays or radiation are doing it and scratching that CD that's always my thought on people that do extreme endurance activities like ultramarathons things on those lines I mean I Marvel at their willpower or and their ability to push themselves through that and did the physical condition they have to be in to perform such Feats but I always think man you're probably doing

x times the amount of damage to your body that a normal person does at your age it sounds right calorie restriction works but if you overdo it you also starve Udi Udi so you got to find the right balance right how do you how do you know what the right balance is for you

good question how does anybody know we live in an age that is still fairly primitive is why I like the Future these days we go to the doctor most of us go to the doctor for annual physical which is ludicrous. Hopefully a blood test a prostate exam once a year that's kind of crazy what happens if you cut a tree mother develop the day you leave the doctor's office so the future can actually partially for those who are on The Cutting Edge you done right now it's monitoring your body

inverse why is genetically epigenetically we can measure those scratches right now and also with blood test you can also have companies tell you if you're out of range if you're not up to my eyes and how to get it back in order so that's what I did so how often do you monitor your blood really every few months I have a blood test from a company that tells me what I need to correct and how expensive is this is as blood tests like is it the standard one that a normal person can get or do you have to have prescription get this or you can go online and get it it's about I think 40 parameters they measure something they're not standard that you talked to win through some pretty standard but what's nice is it it's a tracking system it's cold inside tracker and they you can see all the time with things are going up and even if they're not out of range yet you can see if they headed that direction rented before it's too late

that's why I want to bring them on Metformin my blood glucose was going up and up and up which predicts lower life and some metformin got it back down to where it was ultimately so that's one of the things that lower your blood glucose that's what is prescribed for for diabetics now does it have any effect on your energy levels

I don't think so I haven't noticed that

where you would notice it is during rigorous exercise that make sense do you feel it

I will so I take metformin at night so that maybe for the best thing right so when you're sleeping is having its effect and it's run its course by the time you wake up your blade yeah now when you are exercising are you exercising fasted or do you take certain amount of carbohydrates for you do any kind of physical exercise gym and I'll have some salad rapper cuz I like that so I'm not feeling hungry during it when pus out and so I understand you're getting these blood test but do you have a trainer do do set a workout or you do structure it I do now just recently got a trainer Sprite thing to do with your son father sometime so yeah that the we have an hour of trainer and then we we also do their boxing

go to someone else and that's just the best way to spend the day that is a nice way to spend the day so how many days a week you doing this would you give yourself days off do you schedule that well it's a one once a day of that I want to wake on Sunday and during the week if I have a chance I'm not traveling like go to the home gym and when you say you run once a week is that by design that you only give you have once a week I probably run two times a week behind tensity if I could and I try to do that when I'm on a plane or a high-intensity are you doing track work like what kind of stuff I'm not an expert so what I do is I I will enter Hops and a half an hour on one of those treadmills that you shaped are those out here yeah great they are so that you determine your speed so I'll Sprint announce Williams Prince Ali on a more difficult than running on flat surface wear regular treadmills is actually easy

ears and running to the treadmills moving you just kind of lifting your legs up and keep it moving with this actually you're powering it so by you pushing on it it's actually more it's like running I forget what the degree incline ass but it's like an x x amount percentage harder than a regular run how good that's what feels good to me and so it's a little bit scary used to these treadmills you can run off the the front cuz they're free-flowing of right off the tip tap handles well yeah yeah I'm a big fan of those things and then it's nice to because that there's a lot of give to them is not much pounding when you run on those it's not like running on hard surface yeah so try to go easy on my joints of seeing you probably all seen the sports players with the most of the damage that joint sand

high intensity and as far as weight lifting they will come stuff you doing there cuz weightlifting does have a beneficial effect on bone density and it's supposedly has an effect on anti-aging is well yeah actually believe in that until I try to maintain some muscle mass good for burning fat to go overboard with the bench presses otherwise I'll have even more well-rounded shoulder stripe get straight backs of the trainers helping me bring my body back into shape took one look at me and he said you did this on supervised yeah rock your body in your 20s let's try to fix that what did you say you're doing wrong I said what why don't you do an exercise on a part of your body you can see in the mirror all your back my back is is Flynn Boyle here's my sound like you're a smart man it's protecting your spine be like oh God

oh yeah yeah if you do it heavy now you do this how many days a week hopefully two or three two or three a week so all the everything you're doing you essentially recommend to others as well right so you think that's a good plan two to three days a week of weight lifting one to two days a week of running water on it when you can never use the would recommend getting into trouble a good move I just say what I do and what the signs does say this is the optimal and that's why I chose it for myself but I think we can without monitoring yourself teaser video I really don't know what's going on in the inside it's crazy to think we know more about how cars as we drive on the dashboard that we do about our bodies how does anybody know if it's too much too little or if that supplement doing anything right was it that is a big problem right I mean one of the things that we have a giant problem in mma's tainted supplements

people buying supplements and supplements have other things in them and what are you drinking to drink mostly water to consume caffeine in a man which gives me a boost I think caffeine is a little too intense I find that a cup of coffee in the morning but that's it yeah wow fantastic story live it's hard, really hard right when you how dare you I was ruined everything you said you doing that yet myself before you is it that bad I actually had an inflated idea how bad it was apparently but in talking to another research scientist

he was telling me that the this the actual amount that they gave two rats when they're you know diagnosing them with cancer is almost impossible for person consume don't so you would have to have ungodly amounts of aspartame in order to get these effects that everyone's terrified of I said the other thing to take into consideration is look around at how many people are drinking diet coke and goes it was really that bad they be dropping like flies the consideration though is upset in your gut biome currently right now that I know but he said that's also probably large quantities

it's true but as you know the microbiome is a finicky thing and you don't want to mess with that's the reason I have this is yogurt in the morning trying to reset it yeah not regularly but yeah that's that's what about other fermented vegetables or anything along those lines are probiotics Japanese food I mean to but I don't think about my diet that are usually too busy running around now have you ever messed around with nootropics or anything like that to enhance your mental Clarity or boost your brainpower

what well yet my my brain is always running a marathon like that's where I where I definitely noticed that if I take time off even a weekend without thinking I'm Dumber on Monday Dumber well yeah I just got really so like it's almost like you need to keep that pace going for sure I guess I'm not a natural genius I have to work at it if I do find that the constant stimulation I've got to do that to be at the Pekin this is a teepee Peak this is the genetics department at Harvard medical school fees are no dummies he's a criminal Prize winners in you got it be published as you know the world's top journals with you really getting to know to be able to think of these ideas and come up with new things you can't do that on a whim you really have to have a mind that is focused and in shape exactly so it is essential you feel like running like you take days off you actually slipped

a little bit then you have to ramp back up Steve horrible I really hate it but is it just because you just get used to a lazy pace and you have to like acclimate to get back in the lab or is it actually you do get Dumber don't have the memory recall I feel like I did when I was in my twenties which is how it wasn't as sharp I'm a lot stronger than I was in support of it could be the mental training how to get myself every every day the other part could be that the molecules could have in your truck to facts we don't know for sure creatine supposedly has nootropic effects as well do you ever take that no caffeine certainly does I'd like to get you some actual nootropics I'll send you some is it a bunch of different ones that I use I use three different companies one this one of mine and two of the other companies newer one and another one called trubrain and I find a pretty beneficial

great I could do with that yeah it'll definitely the one that we've tested was Alpha Brain test at the Boston Center for memory that did a double-blind placebo-controlled study showed increasing verbal memory increase reaction speed reaction time but the the other ones piracetam of your mess with any of those know choline supplement with that no interesting right. I could be smarter I guess I don't think it's that it's just it's it's not smarter I don't think anything makes you smarter I think knowledge makes you smarter what does access I think two something that's already in your head little bit a little smooth are good the recall is important that thing as a scientist what you need is you need to see a thousand different sets of data and put them into one they can see the connections so I'm exposed to so much information it's printing from a firehose everyday I'm reading papers I'm talking to dozens of people

I've got tons of companies. Two labs in the world it's just coming in and for my brain to take it in sort it out finds links between them connect that person with that politician with that could a military it's all going on in a regular brain that isn't trained would have a hard time yeah I would imagine that one cup of coffee a day

well it said the other man is good to take n a d in an IV form no I haven't but I've talked to many people that have been scheduling it or wanting to schedule it putting off for weeks but I'm going to do that soon cuz I just know too many people that have extreme benefits from it

yeah sounds good do you know anyone in stomach no

it seems like something to be right up your alley

oh yeah you think I'll just be more focused on curing aging but energy does have supposedly some sort of an effect on Aging correct IV and AD I don't know that ain't even a Teensy bit pimply studied actually a lot of anecdotes and I hear about these all the time but I haven't seen really hardcore double-blind placebo-controlled in supplemental form though and in terms of oral orally ingested in a day if you give an ID to an animal or a cell taken up really pulley and it is a big molecule and a man is a smaller version of anybody that gets into cells quickly that's probably a difference so it's the same benefit but it's easier consumed orally

I think so we're still at The Cutting Edge of figuring out what's true and what isn't but NAD is thought to not be well absorbed in the body is compared to these Hollow smaller molecules that the body that turns into an ID once it gets in how much water do you drink not enough not enough was just speaking with some members of Tom Bait Tom Brady say man I said that you got to drink more Tom Brady

you mean is like physical team. I like the Patriots CEO of this company I'm drinking some now I'm drinking a lot more then you end up just turn the bathroom off the timer to a body of urea isn't a good thing do you take anything else is notable

I can run you through it I'm on Lipitor a Statin for I've been on for you right so my good friend and colleague George Church Harvard told me I'm killing myself but I've really high cholesterol my family and family have a history of heart disease because of this yes my grandmother at least according to her had a stroke in their thirties and then yeah it's bad so I'm fighting bad Eskenazi 2 Chainz here

that's crazy to be in your twenties that's in your Thin Man anybody looked at you they would never think you would have an issue yeah it's unfortunate was Nightmare. I teach them so I know what they like but also when I go into the doctor's office I say he is what we should be doing for you should be told to me that I want to go on a Statin and this is in the days when statins going well studied and my doctor said that you're not old and I said I don't want to wait till I'm old and sick to get this medicine I need it now and I'd like a foot. Foot doctor in eventually he prescribed it and my cholesterol came down on the same with dentist so I went to the dentist a few months ago and I said I want my teeth fixed my two front teeth and she said define normal wear and tear on 70k what's a normal fix my teeth get them back to how I was when I was 20 no we don't do that we don't do that

what do you take my daughter right last week yeah but she's young she's got a future hell and I hated feeling that one out you don't get in that way I just getting shorter and flattered and what the fuck you eating rocks yeah I must be

Australian diet on your food so I said to her I thought you were one of the world's best dentists and she said okay fine I'll do it but don't blame me if it doesn't work and so she can work out she was worried that it might snap off or not like people get caps all the time I will try to cap it so I'm actually just material stuck to the tip just on the tip at San Jose like if you had a chip tooth they would do that instead of replace the actual text was sent to my daughter yeah and I said do that to me that looks great and she said no no no finally she said okay but it's your problem you got to pay for it fine and she did it and she actually said at the end of it is great my offer this is a procedure to other patients

but but my point is not about teeth it's the medical profession is a gist they give young people certain treatments cause a young and they don't give them to the old but then they don't give the young people the treatment they need before they kill ya wacky I had a similar thing happened with a torn meniscus a minor meniscus tear and the guy told me well if you were young they would Stitch it up and hope that it would heal a mic what the fuck does that mean I go everything works good like what is difference what is the difference between me and a younger by the end he said something about blood flow you have more blood flow I said like I'm not a doctor but that doesn't make any sense I go I'm working out all the time is a lot of blood going through there like what the fuck is happening and I'm like let's shoot some stem cells in there and see what's up cuz they wanted to do a meniscus you don't want to do what is a menace copy whatever it where they call it when they cut some of the meniscus out I'm like

let's just let's just try it's totally working like I don't have any pain in right now

so I think there's a weird thing that they do do when you get to a certain age like I got my friend has a torn ACL and they essentially he's in his fifties like little late 50s and a sense of told not to fix it I go hey fucker get it fixed we crazy and have a wobbly knee and they're like well he told me if I was young girl fuck that doctor go get that thing fixed Issaquah the recovery time like shut up you just recover you just leave her alive a year goes by its fixed just stop just go get it fixed ya see that's the problem with today's society year old is Daryl that dead bs50 is still very young actually there is 78 seven-year-old a year old and nine year old still playing tennis yeah loving life that's that's just the beginning of what's coming if you maintain activity that seems to be the key that the really hard thing is when someone's in their fifties and they want to get in shape now and they haven't been active their whole life that seems to be a problem here at their DVDs

yes I have to go to back it can be done though I did see a guy who was 58 years old who started running marathons of 58 in his seventies he's running sub 3 hour marathon and he looks great so it just he just had to take his time and really be dedicated and watch his diet nutrition and next thing you know this guy's an elite marathon runner it is doable what we find in the lab is if we trade miserly in life but give them the battle much betta lifespan of sure so don't ever leave it too late will you see that with athletes like athletes that were sick when they were young and never lost it can really be maintained and stayed in the gym and state act if you see them in their fifties and move in their 60 so I can grade whereas you know it's just wants your body deteriorates it's very difficult to bring it back but if you maintain it seems like there is people today that are doing that is much more common if you go to a gym

Constance go to a nice gym you'll see a lot of folks that are in their sixties and seventies that are really active and they're there all the time and the regulars at the gym and they look great my father is a is a prime example of that so he's an Australian he's being taken care of his body since he was in his early forties probably a little too late but still he's being taken Smita man is metformin for a while Resort at 12 but he's been active that's the key I think and then so that combination so he's now just turning 80 this year

you would think that he's 30 if you if you didn't

no his age and he's running around and my mother passed away from cancer so he's dating women he's out every night he's traveling the world now this is the future for four people in their 80s you start a new career at 8076 what to do if you got bored so he retired 6740 had another 10 years of any kept going and going going his friends are getting frail he still active so he went back and he's working at Sydney University on the ethics panel for clinical trials and other studies and that's what you want older people with wisdom and knowledge to do to get back that sounds good to like before you get your dad hopped up on always awesome new drugs then you get them working on the ethics panel for clinical studies and then you get them to give you some death row patients so you can try it on right that affect your on to me yes I know what you doing now man you wiggle

the system a little bit weird keep it in the family after active super healthy dad right well I don't recommend anything but they end up my brother was very upset that what seems like it's working out really well for your father I mean so metformin NM and what else did he take and he exercises that's am I so he's honest and as well because he has the same predisposed condition you know that's what he's saying that that there are people that just have high blood pressure or higher you know higher blood pressure or higher instances of heart disease and their family and it's just a really unfortunate genetic issue

it is it is but fortunately we were able to tackle heart disease pretty well these days with blood pressure drugs and cholesterol drugs but what about with these longevity drug store in development is the choice to be prescribed this medicine for Alzheimer's or if your liver disease but as a side effect it'll keep the rest of your body healthy as well protected against cancer and only something that's what's a radical about what we doing

now what about crispr and what do you think is going to come out of that in terms of like real world application for an adult mean what if people don't know what Chris Perez please explain it and then layman's terms yes a crisper is invented in my apartment probably so I know it pretty well it's Syria have an immune system that cuts Invaders cut the DNA and what we've done now assigned as we've now utilize that system take it out of back to you and we use it to create designer mutations design a gene changes in animals and also in humans so it's a bacterial immune system that correct genes and we use it all the time now it's some it's it's actually what's interesting about you being able to be tight jeans for many years but this is dial-up a gene mutation you can choose exactly where you want to make it and so I think many villages will know that

recently weight loss to your Chinese research Journal field came out and said he's engineered a couple of twin girls with crispr to be resistant to HIV AIDS virus wow if they're telling you that you got to think that doing some stuff and not telling you about right while you get up some kids with giant heads and it's coming through walls yeah lines Well yeah if you start to see people that are 90 and Anna still as young as 20 you know something's going on yeah that's the weird one right if you can you do hey what are you doing nothing just eating healthy looking good take care by and I'm going to tell you yeah yeah so the chance of getting HIV in China is so that doctor was seemingly he thought he was at the cold protecting the baby's from something that's really rare whereas if you really want to do something helpful to those kids

recreate it was it was something you should do why not make them resistant to heart disease or the cancer we can do that it was weird that he chose HIV is the first test why do you think they did that it was a very well understood mutation that would if you just destroyed the gene that would work or as with these other diseases you have to be much more precise the reason that we signed just got really upset was that he did it in secrecy and then just launched it on the world and that kind of thing because the it's a fine line in ethics you want to be doing that with total transparency running I think he was hoping to become win a Nobel Prize or be a star and it backfired on him because he just did it in secrecy it backfired in the scientific Community absolutely in the in the real world and a media I was shocked how little discussion there was if this news came out in the 2000s during the bush era it would have been panels investigation that would be news from

but wasn't people went up what's next on Twitter the news cycle so insane I do when you have a scientific experiment of that nature what's the standard protocol for a scientist whether it is is it the same in China and then Russia and the United States as a scientific Community almost operate under different like a different set of rules than anything else

give me between countries yes I mean like obviously Technologies not shared like China is doing something technologically United States as they we have to speculate web figured out but when it comes to medical science is it sort of an open book cuz everybody sharing information or at least alerting everyone to what they're working on Arabelle I know you could you going with this place I think I do around the world about what's going on under the radar as best I know I never all countries that are doing research on the radar and are preventing

people like myself from entering those buildings to have a look at what's going on what's going on in there is actually a little bit broader but I don't know how long is it before I must say Russia and I didn't say I didn't say anything but I want to be able to travel to Russia

but I said it in in countries where there are different standards what's stopping a mothers who wants to prevent a child from having heart disease which could kill their child 40% chance vs 1000 and eventually you could make a child that could live 200 years once we know how to do it that could be the future there's always a concern that someone is doing something that is beneficial in one way but negative another way and if everyone doesn't get to examine the research it's very difficult like if we wanted in the United States want to do something similar to what they're doing over there we would want to have access to what they've learned right

are we would end so generally scientists share information but there are companies that are government-owned that are very secret right and I or even private organizations and that's where it's a little tricky that's why we we sign just get really upset when companies or organizations don't share information and what's not really stated but it's my belief is one of the reason for such a backlash against this crispr design a baby experiment and it really was an experiment it's not just that it was potentially dangerous and you could end up with kids foot deformities but also that unless we do this in a in a measured manner under supervision this day could be a backlash like it was against stem cell research mm we don't want that again we want to be able to do this the right way this time it's a particular if something goes wrong with those children one person could ruin it for millions of a jump the gun

got so this world were on the second generation of crisper is that correct

terms of the editing tools they've become more they have that that is surprisingly that there's a lot of different bacteria that have the these system so it will getting new ones all the time some of her more accurate cuz you don't want to talk it affect you don't want to accidentally meet ate some Jane that's required for head development and so yeah I think in my department on 4th generation 4th generation in wow yeah see I'm just going by Radiolab podcast yeah my Department's fun fun Department today in imagine there anything else which stuff what did you ever see the documentary Icarus

Aaron's Bail it's a Bryan Fogel documentary on the Russian doping program state-sponsored doping program in Sochi the Sochi Olympics and how they had this incredibly complicated system of stealing the urine and putting it through a hole in the wall and putting fake ear and back through is really really amazing amazing amazing documentary but details this incredibly complicated state-sponsored doping system I would imagine that would something like crisper or some various new forms of genetic editing that that's one of the things that they're going to be looking into that they're going to be looking into things that are going to enhance athletic performance I mean might need to have a DNA test to see if you put one of these viruses in your right why you 50 and now you're running like a twenty-year-old right so that that's all possible

not that. I also write reports for for governments and one of the things that I predicted

15 / the next 15 years was crispr being used to engineer the human genome and make a baby I didn't realize it was going to happen within one year or a lot of these technologies that I'm trying to protect having way faster than even I think it could going to happen do you think it's possibly happened in other circumstances that they're not going public with

it's it's always possible that maybe some human clowns running around right now but we don't know about do you think so it's certainly doable scientifically there might be some Rogue nation is doing it probably Streisand's dog sitter a pretty easy to climb that she had her dogs called right yeah yes I made a 14 year old dog is now there's two of them Jesus Christ is so weird that because I be so scared I go to sleep and wake up that thing to be hovering over my face and red glowing eyes up yeah we have designed a cemetery what was a friend of mine Kelly supposed to Sanford entertaining the idea of making dogs live longer genetically so why would you want your family members on your live I think about that such a sweetie and I'm sad that one day I mean I've had to put my other dog down recently and who's 13 and this is really a Mastiff to new struggling and I just

Pac-Man this two-year-old one day is going to be in that same sort of situation will it isn't until we have three dogs my wife runs a therapy dog or Barbra Streisand dog Samantha that crazy bitch look at her two copies of one dog Jesus Christ that's so strange how much is get a new dog you fucking nut well so it might be giving out dog Cinnamon oh and how's it doing how was the dog had a good what the oldest dog is 9 and he still doing fine does he look different my wife says so so Alice is a therapy dog and he has to go to hospitals and nursing homes and if he has any men according to my wife he con be a therapy dog cuz he's too excited running around jumping around so that that's anecdotal but that seems to fit with what

others of experience to wow to have some treatments for some pets on shortly want to companies that I'm working with treatments for pets yeah well you got to think hey man dogs going to live 13 Years anyway you know we had and also we have a dog that has a defect in the vet says it's only going to live 5 years so it's she's three now so that's the one you're experimenting on what weights on it on all of them

but what's the downside that's got to be so uncomfortable for some people listening to us right now. I don't know how to feel about that right what is the downside if your dog is got a kitty dfac that's only going to probably live to be nine name all the dogs in a live to be a thousand years old what was the position meditating a hundred years from now will you do if it starts talking to you right yeah what what do you do if you turn a dog into some new kind of thing that lives 30 or 40 years what do you tell people I give your dog right now you're talking about on the podcast and a bunch of people probably going to remember but a lot of people for yet but it's like 15-20 years now your dog still chasing balls and going to come over to know your dog man right. Same dog Charlie Charlie just have gray hair anymore man people have any grey hair

yeah man that's weird isn't it you know of any how long you been on the stuff I started 12 years ago about how does anyone in your family have gray hair is a genetic issue my father has old gray hair my brothers about a third grade Talkray recently interesting in nf3 in an experiment which is insufficient right so I don't want to get slapped on the wrist by Martin medical schools who's the dummy who saying all these things you're just answering questions do not worry that would be unbelievably fascinating if your dog live to be like 30 or 40 years old that would be really incredible

and if I meet you in 15 years you still have dark hair I'll be like what what the hell man

what are the things are you taking do you take multivitamins

I take vitamin D that's it takes what about me or k or any of those

K2 Indy together and that's it oh I'm afraid of iron especially the elderly least two senescence of cells been filled up a boson me sells a bad thing and is this dietary iron like from vegetables or is it from cooking on a cast iron pan or I only know from correlation so I'm I'm looking at tissue that's full of iron and the cells and not looking good so all I can think is I don't want to overload my cell phone are so this is like how much iron is too much iron

we don't know yet cuz I was here at especially from women and iron deficiencies for some reason I I hear I've heard it from several women

not sure but for the elderly overloading them with I and I think is it is appropriate so there's a sweet spot to hit well yeah I'm sure I'm sure there is Wilk will damage the cells pretty badly so you don't want to go overboard and no other supplements make sure I'm not deficient in anything

green leafy vegetables exactly exactly if I can call her. I'll go for a carrot or something I ate some carrots probably turn orange

how great not going to cut up my carrots especially if you drink them in the juice for him like I know a lot of friends who really enjoy fruit juices and vegetable juices and I always say I mean yeah probably great but fruit juice man drinking a big glass of orange juice you might as well be having a Coca-Cola with these and a fruit juices and so does that have sugar in them out of used to be able to go to like Jamba Juice and get one of those big ol smoothies and feel like you're doing something good for your body to thank you have a good I got all this blueberries in there and great stuff but meanwhile is just a gang of sugar in that thing interesting thing that that whole milk is actually potentially better for you than the love you use less of it and it does milk have sugar in it right the whole milk as fat in it and it's normal it's normal for your body to go with that way right what what I was

I want my money back from the nutritionist in the 1970s and 80s I skipped eggs and bacon that used to be in the Doctor Seuss books teaching kids to eat cereal and it's so crazy bread that's the best stats that the best bad advice that they ever gave vegetable oils which are fucking terrible for all those disgusting vegetables safflower and corn oil all that stuff that's just terrible terrible for you can still tell that kids is don't go hungry have a snack at all right so it's always 888 never be hungry when I'm there so I know it be hungry it's good for you and it's this II same with children though cuz children are growing I always assumed that children dishes eat whenever they're hungry

well that's what stated I'm not sure if that's

the case off and my son is so my son isn't then put it that way and he'll be going out the door and my wife will say have you had breakfast and I'm not hungry you have to eat something and I'm thinking no you got plenty of energy stored there don't worry about it

yeah I mean it makes sense the only thing that I think of is that when you're a young person your body is still actually growing and developing as opposed to you and I if we're fasting it makes sense right it makes sense your you giving your body a break and there's all sorts of proven benefits to that fasting processing but if you have a a child whose of a wait is it a bad thing to skip a meal no no it's not the one they thing that worries me about children that are overweight skipping a meal though is that they're not as disciplined and they're not so good psychologically with struggling and and having having hunger pangs and that you're going to fuck their head up its really teaches or probably be very angry with me that the kids, concentrate little Sanchez that yeah the kids can come straight but I just worry that it's in some way shape or form of abusive like to say hey you're overweight you need to lose weight like I don't think there

like I don't think they're really designed to go without the way the wave a grown adult does he's my own perceptions I think that it's probably far better to adjust their diet and if you got a kid just slowly get their body weight down with exercise particularly with resistance training and doing things that really burn off a lot of calories and then just get them off of sugar and then I think the way it'll slowly slip off probably not even so slowly if you can really get them off as significant sugar binge exactly so that's why I'm taking my son to the gym as well agree with that I'm just just to clarify cuz I don't want to punch I hate mail all I'm saying is yes yes yes. But I just think that kids so they just get so fuking hungry man think it's cuz they're out their little bodies are like little hummingbirds and the burning so much energy

yeah they do I'm amazed you don't take any other supplements just vitamin D no multivitamins you don't want to cover all your bases no whole food supplement like vitamin or plant-based supplements you can take during the day and none of that

subscribe to the idea that a lot of its expense of urine and nope I'm testing myself so I know if I'm deficient in something bad oh my vitals are close to something that wacko I'll say it probably so you're saying you do things for the government

what do you do if I sign it and you said that earlier you said I should ask you what you did for the show started outside

I was feeling frisky now that I've thought about it I want to go to jail and think this moment the things you can't talk about please don't there's a lot to talk about I just have to make sure it's nothing that's confidential but there's a lot of interesting stuff going on on the planet is Aries a by defense the priests carry also some nations are apparently working on using crispr and other Gene editing systems and modifying bugs that could wipe out a few hundred million people pretty quickly what do you do how do you detect that I'm even the flu that's a mess it by the threat and it may just be natural and I could wipe out another hundred million people like to do exactly century ago so I'm I work on that stuff detecting viruses wiping them out clean your room of DNA on making sure that things clean

Give an example so that the Navy Seals come out to my lap and I'd like to ask him a group to solve some hard problems and so the problem they said I was on was how do you kill Anthrax safely and right now it's very difficult to kill of course when you have dark slate it was open in the Senate what was it a number of years ago 25 million dollars they had to seal it off and put hydrogen peroxide all over everything destroyed the computers so they wondering how do you kill Anthrax safely so that you don't have to be in a hazmat suit to do it and so what we came up with after thinking about it for that week was we need to a biological solution not a chemical and so we've found a an organism that its whereabouts I cannot disclose but it's a very interesting organism that grows at high temperature and it destroys all bacterial and viral life and it wipes it out and it doesn't hurt humans at all

there's a harlequin animal studies you can breathe it in can put it anywhere and it's fine so this is a cocktail of enzymes that destroys microbes including Anthrax so it doesn't have any effect on humans but what about the bacteria that lives in our body

I will we haven't eaten it yet what we're hoping to do is to do a clinical trial soon on removing buyer phones so in the wounds of patients the problem that the reason they don't heal very well specially diabetic chronic wounds that buy white that every 10 minutes I was losing a limb thanks to that buy phones yet to digest them off and you know how they do it right now please scrub them off it's horrific and I cut the skin and I keep cutting their cutting and eventually you lose a limb this looks really promising and animal studies that we should be able to not just kill the bacteria in the wound which is a problem but get rid of that biofilm that's amazing so things like MRSA

staph infections exactly so the stop it in its tracks before it gets systemic right spray the stuff on a cruise line for the virus norovirus even if it turns out to be that say for not just wipe down schools because I was worried about that the negative aspect like what's going to happen like what's what's going to be the blowback ride like antibiotics is with created medicine resistant antibiotic staph infections right right right to the West possible bro love it we make a good team

Ashley tested does it induce antibiotic resistance and so far it's negative okay interesting so I work with a company that detects organisms so we wanted to text if there's another virus coming across the planet so how do you do that quickly how do you do it if you don't know what you looking for so we can take a drop of blood oral swab off the table and we can see all the organisms that are there we can do your microbiome but that's easy we can do so drop of blood will tell you all the bacteria and viruses in there and it'll tell you how which is great for health care because right now microbiology Labs I working when I used to

swap urine and poop on plates with very glamorous that's how it's still done that is that's 19th century early twentieth-century technology crawl on a plate wait a few days to see what grows that useless for disease like viruses and Lyme disease Lyme disease you know the one from texting you and your spine my daughter got Lyme disease and she was really sick she's losing her eyesight it was seriously going to a brain and the hospital wouldn't give her the antibiotic cuz I the tests weren't quick enough and they wouldn't give her the antibiotic until the test was positive for insurance reasons I should just give me the give me the DNA of my daughter up spinal fluid I'll test it they wouldn't do that so I was Furious so spun out a company out of my lab with some very smart buns magicians math magician software Engineers are we built supercomputers to be able to do this teamed up with a guy in stand for my friend I mentioned him Carlos Bustamante he's the guy that

so maybe I shouldn't breed a famous person's genome recently he's been trained on mommies and he did Kennewick man so this technology can be teamed up with what I've done to be able to get rid of all the humans and I had a blood sample leave the viruses live bacteria and then run that through a second. Supercomputer all the DNA and tell you within probably seconds eventually what it is so my daughter would would have a diagnosis within eventually will be just 10 minutes instead of waiting week wow

Lyme disease is terrifying there are so many people are infected with it and I know personally maybe ten people that have it and a couple that I've had significant issues with it that have lasted for years I know a guy was hospitalized for a full year on it likes it's really bad and it and it can hide as well that's the problem yeah and it wrecks joints and a lot of countries are actually deny that they have Lyme disease Australian is a good example people getting what seemed to be Lyme disease and no one knows if it is or not give examples to hospital tell you what's in there but it seems to be very difficult with certain doctors for them to tell if they don't see that bull's eye infection exactly so my daughter out daughter Natalie my middle daughter she didn't have a bull's-eye shutting off in the first place winning the Bulls Eye inflammation around the bite of a tick and there's a there's the actual bite and then there's a circle on the outside of it

for whatever reason this occurs with Lyme disease but often times goes away quickly so if you bring a person in and they have the Lyme disease they don't have that Bullseye anymore which is what happened in my friend Steve son he tried to tell them that it was Lyme disease day the doctors were incredulous they didn't believe him till the kid had Bell's Palsy in his face it's actually that's what happened in our family it is crazy and so I was bitten by tick last year right behind the knee and it didn't form a bullseye they got him give it time but it definitely was very painful thing I could tell it was something going on it was really itchy and I went to the pharmacy and I said

can IV antibiotics probably cost a few dollars for the antibiotic and they said no we won't give it to you till we see a bull's-eye and you need to bring the ticket while I can bring the tick with me so again I'm the doctors and nurses West nightmare I wouldn't leave until they gave me the antibiotic and I'm glad because I don't want to wait till I give it to you they did I wasn't going to leave until I got it but I don't want to wait a week and I'm starting to lose my did you get upset with him say what's new Dell motherfukers I'm super smart I work with jeans

no it's not that occasion it's tempered that's tempting but I know you can always

yeah what do you say I mean how long did it take for they listen to you

so I went through I basically started spouting biology so that they knew that right you something about it I was about 15 minutes if I broke trust me right let me know if you try to take yeah I mean I would just think they'd want to hand that stuff out quick with so many people getting it it's so common mean we looked at a map recently on the podcast of Lyme disease infections across the east coast and the East Coast United States obviously that's where you live is just a hotbed it's crazy it's everywhere

well it isn't a girlfriends on Cape Cod where it's really prevalent really bad so bad so they keep the antibiotic in the kitchen drawer

and if you catch a quick enough does it stop it in its tracks so the real problem is when it gets into your bloodstream and you don't treat it long enough or quick enough exactly and so my my daughter needed a PICC line which is delivered and a body to straight into the heart cuz I left it too long but you knew

I didn't I thought it was meningitis bacteria in the brain or something holding up leukemia with the other possibility

those dirty fucking bugs what can be done to somehow another eradicate those things again one of my friends got a few friends here she was working at MIT and she's developed a way using the crispr system to kill these cuz you said download Falcons and so there is possibly going to be the first test of releasing a modified organism alarm organism to kill him off wow

you know that's going to cost some new super bugs going to kill everybody

it's going to be like that Brad Pitt movie The Zombie won World War Z

my paper on the other hand we might all be safe from Lyme disease I would like that that would be great I just I mean where did Lyme disease come from there was some conspiracy theory website that was thinking that Lyme disease with some sort of some sort of a biological weapon that's probably go check I'm sure but it came out it was in Lyme Connecticut

close enough to Harvard chances to stayed away I thought you said Russians were buying it conspiracy theory

I didn't say was rushing for this a biological weapon it's it's just an awful thing and then and now there's the I'm sure you're aware of the lone star tick that gives people that alpha-gal disease the one that makes you allergic to red meat just before it's crazy see these things more thing and they morphing and there are a lot of bugs we don't know somebody just published a few days ago that they took surveys of the microbiome on the skin mouth got across the planet different races different foods Geographic geography and I have a hundred thousand different organisms living on Humanity

and most of them are unknown that's crazy right right and all they have to do is just more of a little bit one way or the other way and all the sudden people are dropping like flies and what's interesting is on the scanning in the god of people in India is very different of all we have different smells you might they probably think we smell that but I know this because some other wrong right I smell like Old Spice they're actually if you want to kill bacteria a woman that different in the wounds of of people in India than they are with you now that's interesting

and obviously have different diets to so it's probably different things they're used to consuming and so their gut bacteria is different right everything's different than that you know the difference so we need to map the glow of first know what we're doing with for we can address. It just seems like a never-ending struggle

everyday is a struggle against the natural world they want to kill us NES the little things big things all of it so how much of your time gets consumed with this kind of work well it's okay everything's all consuming like my typical day is going to do you ice comment can cold by senator for an update so probably actually is Howard University allows me to spend 20% of my time outside of the University so it's 19.9

do you have to cover your ass hairs that we just did maybe

funny tricks that I'm now anymore but I would think that with a guy like you who's so you concentrate so much you're so focused on anti anti anti aging that having a gigantic workload would seem to me to be that would be an issue terms of like overtaxing your system stressing yourself out nobody's ever asked me that and it's a really good question

I'm not really worried about dying that's why I'm not worried at all at all I know is I was a wolf in the room is staring at you and I we're headed honestly death I probably not want but I've been I thought I was going to die on airplanes before and I'm pretty calm about that so I guess that's a good test but I do want to leave a legacy I want to be able to say the world's better for me being on the planet and so that's why I do all this stuff I try to protect Humanity I try to protect nature I'm trying to help with food production my aging stuff is what I'm known for but I do a lot of sell the stuff that people don't know that so you your concern is

anti-aging you certainly want people to live longer but you yourself are more concerned with your work then you are with your own personal life hundred percent my wife will tell you that the reason that I look off to myself as best I can when I called the energy is it would be a bad look if I die from heart disease tomorrow yes the anti-aging guy for anything other than an accident right to be a role model for all those but you know if I if I died tomorrow would be fine with me I'd like to finish my work at least I would like to leave something behind but what I don't want to do is to to be a burden on my kids and grandkids and so that's what I'm also trying to put in that would seem to me to be the real final frontier of anti-aging is folks that are really really old because it seems like they would be open to try almost anything and if you

bring them back that would be Uber Bazaar

right how far away do you think we are from doing something like that it often comes as a shock to people who don't work on this that are already testing these molecules in clinical trials on elderly people I've been doing that for a number of years now put some positive results over at Harvard we were getting Anna man and another molecule that might be 66 so that the company's gold metrobiotech and it makes super energy boosters and the drug is called developmental drug is MIB - 626

6 to 6 and we're hoping that it will not respond to you then an Alleyway somewhere

that one that one we hope to get on the market in about 3 years from now for diseases FDA approved and so they're using it right now on an old folks are testing it for safety but we're also going to be testing later energy we can measure actually the NAD levels at molecule likes mention we can make any muscles move tastic that worked and we'll we'll measure cost their insurance cuz if the mice that we traded with them and they just ran and ran and ran and she broke a little treadmill in my lap and I Ran So Far you giving it to the morally or you're injecting into them. It's a little tablet you just put food and put it in their food or something like that all the mice are in the mice be put in the drinking water really easy wow

I have no idea no idea in fact that people who are running a treadmill have no idea which is which but we had mice running 3 km and then the machine stopped when I get a text from the the researcher Hate Machine broke and I said to check the software and turned out so it was written to stop at 3, because my mouse at run that far before that's long and those are all mice don't forget these are mice that equal 465 year old human really and we figured out why they run further this isn't just try it and see we figured out that that the lining of blood vessels needs in a d as you get older but they need it all the time but as you get older you don't have enough so the Enderman replenishes that allows the blood vessel lining to respond to exercise any control blood vessels if you don't exercise and so those mice they ran and ran around it and get like they build up as much I just didn't feel tired so so

could be different

I wouldn't seem to get that either why has the better blood flow or even pinched off an artery and the body responded much better to four step restoring blood flow would be great for patients have a heart attack now with human beings what has been the most traumatic result

that's a hard question cuz a lot of its early stage

weed about the molecule that seemed to effectively treat the disease called psoriasis which is the guy that worked and that's a molecule when it was actually how does that work what is it doing so it's an activator off one of these sirtuins that we found in yeast original these are 2 and protective enzymes in the body and their anti-inflammatory and so it worked well against that disease so psoriasis has something to do with information it is an inflammatory disorder

are all autoimmune disorders anti-inflammatory based disorders I believe so really interesting

cuz I have I have Vitiligo don't see that little spots on my skin when I don't have any pigment is genetic my grandmother had it my grandmother sister had it I wonder if that would help me

jawed really couldn't say what's it called again which one the drug that was tested it has a name SRT 2104

and this is the stuff that you worked on psoriasis in a small study in New York

now what other what other things had really dramatic results on humans while we're not there yet we don't have dramatic results is there anything promising results on humans other than yes there are out there so the same tour I mentioned earlier where the drug rapamycin which is too dangerous to try on normal people

that drug has been tried on elderly people and it boosted their immune system in the same way that you see with calorie-restricted mice and so that that was an early signal that you might be able to reverse aspects of aging and the elderly with that truck now with older folks one thing you see is the body doesn't produce collagen as much your skin gets wax and starts to Sag what what things could be done to mitigate that besides Botox and stuff really do that well it's so I'm outside a lot will it David don't worry about protecting cancer or heart disease Alzheimer's so I look better can I look bad right yeah right I need the answer is that a we don't know be working on it we have we work with a Cosmetic Company but so far so good but I I don't endorse products that's not me but also what's interesting is that these

at least they stay young looking as well they don't just live longer

well it certainly indicative of whether or not a person's healthy right if you see someone on their skin is really saggy and fucked up looking you assume that person is not healthy

bright and actually a lot of us scientists believe that how you look is actually pretty good indicator of your biological age swing biological age that is being a break through the last few years being able to tell your biological age one-pot somebody inside track of looking at blood biomarkers but there's a new one called the DNA is well known for its tea for that and what it is is so you know how DNA I said is changing over time and the epigenome is changing so they can see the light scratches on the clock, DVD we think we know what the scratches are

and how to remove them and what they are a little chemicals that bind to the DNA code metals and the older you get the more Metals your you accumulate on your DNA and we can breed that with machine and we can very precisely say you're roughly this age but you're actually older or younger for your chronological age and and now we can we can reverse that

wow how long do you think you are away from doing that peanut butter reverse that well that's that Glaucoma treatment that we're looking at I would like to see you take someone like a

a wealthy Mel Gibson type character and just shoot them up with everything like just get someone who's willing to give you a full run of them and run it like a lick of some sort of a science fiction movie will do it if you'll employ me cuz I'll be kicked out of my job if I'm sure you would but it just seems like there's so many promising things would be really fascinating if you could document do you take one person is like a wealthy man is mid-to-late 60s anti-aging serum anti-aging it's what do you like longevity research we're about to announce maybe just a sneak preview for everybody and Academy for aging hard research of the top-ranked 20 scientist know all the banding together to

to produce white papers and opinions but yet we call it longevity research and so anti aging is is more that the botox in that kind of stuff that we aren't right but that's nonsense it's not really anti-aging you're not doing anything about age and you just freezing your skin so it doesn't move that is that to me is one of the weirdest things especially with men I see a man is forehead doesn't move I want to smack me in the mouth what's wrong with you sir how dare you smoke it just it's not it's a it's not like botox or fillers ring those things you're not doing anything for your health or your actual real Vitality you're just weirdly doing something cosmetic

yes you are and I think the defense is you feel better if you look better psychologically it might hope I don't think they look better though they just took different yeah what is the problem it is true yeah I don't spend a lot of time thinking about

the Cosmetic industry profits Reasons I'm trying to save humanity and and improve the planet actually I do think we will we will be charged as a as a species if an alien came down and they said you shouldn't botulism in your face right what would what would they ask you that well they asked us have you figured out the speed of light me why have drawings all over my arm you know they might appreciate our maybe but like they're like why don't you just get it and is wash it off or something why I have to get a drilled in your scam people. That's coming but I think that one of the most important questions that are asked to tell if we are an advanced Nation or Advanced species is have you figured out aging yet deterioration and we're so pathetic as a species are answer would be

you mean that something you can do something about that and they only come back in a thousand years well I mean how many people do you think worldwide or working in your field

symptoms of leading Labs there's about 20-30 broadly there's a few hundred laps the same field of study they're all working with the same molecules in the same parameters with molecules but what I can tell you is we get together and conferences and we talked about discovering new chain that extends lifespan and a new molecule working in my store sometimes Inhumans there's a big field now it's growing and when I started it with the backorder biology antioxidants Etc I was very lucky to stop when it was really small and stick it out those fair amount of criticism in those days what how so like that it was like a lot of my friends my supervisor said I was insane for wedding on Aging that's not a thing that's not biology really wow wait how long ago was this so I came to the US from Sydney in 1995 went to MIT and the scientist in the lab.

Lenny Grant his lab to students at just start working to figure out why yeast get old and I joined as the third senior person to join and all the other people in the in the laughter about 18 19 people they said you are not when he's lost his mind he's working on Aging that's not a thing you should be working on what we do which is understanding of genes are regulated so I called it my mom and I said I think I made a big mistake here I thought this was the thing and the guy and everyone here says he's nuts

me while you were right you got to take some risks in life that's one lesson but that's an interesting one right because you were a young fellow who didn't really totally no

it was pretty lucky cuz I'm in Australia right I don't know what people are saying about this lab should work there but always been fascinated with aging since I was four will now though with all the promising new discoveries I mean date they have to be eating crow as it were

talk to those people who go ahead fuckface I was right you don't call him up in the middle of night drunk and I definitely forgive people too much of them had some pretty big enemies along the way but I try to be nice is it because research and this sort of scientific work is so competitive

yeah it is it isn't as this belief that someone successes or failures not really that that is the case but you can show business to so weird sort of a mindset it's a very limiting mindset right and also and this may be true in Hollywood in science if you come up with a new idea when you're young You're Young Turk and you're upsetting the status quo means book construction site 8 revolutions was just had its data right Road in the 60s about chemistry and physics but it applies to biology that way if you come up with a new theory that fat disruptive the current leaders will attack you chaos and you just have to get through it and fortunately breadcrumbs book and I knew that this was normal but a lot of people around me was saying oh no people the same way wrong and it's controversial we don't want controversial online controversies great let's let's do more of that and it's not controversial I want to do it but that is interesting do you think that's because the people who are the Old Guard or upset they didn't find it themselves

elves or the upset that your new findings will make their work look irrelevant

yes it's probably been about it but mostly it's it's that they worry that their lives will be have been in vain it is not true this is amazing documentary on the Sphinx where these geologists are talking about some of the water erosion outside the area of the Sphinx and they're saying this points to the fact that construction was thousands of years older than they thought and you see this one Egypt I'll just freaking out he's freaking out like dated the known dates 2500 BC would have it made it like seven thousand years older than that because it would have to be back when they was rainfall in the Nile Valley and you could see this guy's ego kicking him because he was a professor he'd been teaching egyptology and he was freaking out instead of examining this evidence like like talking to the geologist who studies rocks in a rosian is who's really steadfast is a boss

University geologist dr. Robert schoch and do you know who sang this is evidence of water erosion and he's like showing it and even showed it to a bunch of other geologists they all agreed and this guy the siege of colleges that's documentaries freaking out was like wow wow that's going to happen when you think your whole life's work is horseshit yeah can be a blow to the ego having lived through that yet it's really coming but what I've noticed is that the really successful scientist some people in life just Embrace change and you thought of it it doesn't mean that that guy is a loser it just means he was acting on incorrect information based on what they knew before I mean should embrace it and say look will we know certain things were build a 2500 BC like the Great Pyramid that's been pretty clearly established but it looks like there was some ancient structures that were there even before then let's we know we have new things to study they don't look at it that way though ya say the problem with with how biology next most facts a toilet

there is a tort is that there's a textbook and that's the Bible for lunch what I try to teach my students is complete forget everything you just want and what's important to know most things we think we know we're not correct they going to change out a time or if there is change Newton was wrong but he helped us get here expect that we only know no point or 1% of what we need to figure out and a lot of what we can we know is wrong anyway so even if you have the greatest Theory expect that it will be overturned but you can at least cherish the fact that you helped us get to that point cuz without muting we wouldn't have quantum physics well for someone like me hearing you say that it's very promising and it's it's it's very encouraging but I always thought that scientists were always going on just data like the all they cared about was Data all they care about is what is correct and that was what was crucial.

what's important this is what they talked about this with his study when I found out that scientist would would ignore information or use their own personal biases against information attack research because it's somehow negates what they've done is very disheartening for someone is not a scientist you got all know the egos in science to write it's just happening as a scientist I can tell they weren't there was a time of great change in the Aging field where we discovered genes control aging and molecules like Resveratrol could extend health and life span it was it was brutal I get up and I give a speech and someone say you are wrong size crap and

where are they now do you call them up in the middle the night you. I have a couple of glass of wine and yeah well I think the secret to success in life is actually just existing for long enough and all your enemies to fall away yeah well they died and not into anti-aging just have to leave your enemies easy way that must have been a tough time though for you as a young man and you know you're hearing this from these establish scientists and part of you must have been like a thinking like cheese are they right you have to entertain possibly that you're wrong but that's what we do but you go back to the lab and you can retest it so I went to a really brutal. In my career where we had data we interpreted it we published in journals and it was about how resourceful works on that sir to an enzyme that I mentioned and Pfizer came out with a paper that said it's all wrong

and I had people call me off saying and it was nice knowing you I'm really sad for you but it's over ya bad past simple potluck I went back to the lab we had some date already from you before which I knew you were interesting and it took another thing for years to get to the bottom of it but it turns out in the end I was right but there were days when I said screw Humanity according to bother getting out of bed if this is how I'm going to be traded for trying to devote my life to the betterment of people's lives it's tough being anybody who's in a position in their career like that has to have gone through really hard times it's just discouraging from a non-scientist who relies on people like you for someone like me who relies on the folks like you out there doing the hard work that you would face that sort of the best way to describe it would be ignorance

well it's okay for scientist to channel to Theory that's what I didn't want everybody is trying to do but to do it in such a public Bend and vicious controversial it was vicious it was definitely vicious even the wood that used for vicious which is really hurtful but but they're wrong they might have been right yeah published a paper I do think about meeting that person again I'll put the stuff you can run out of money sure that we went down to four people I mean Ed what was the high in these days I'm your dad before then it was about 18 20 and you went down at 4 or so it was looking bad had written me off holy shit

but you were right when he got to push forward it's you got to get lean cuz you not going to get government funding for a while cuz people think that you are failure that's crazy

what science is not for the faint of heart I would imagine.

What was the turn around

I was there a moment where it turned around and move the water favor yeah there was there was one day when it when it all changed so that the earlier date so what day did Rin the only day that was that the enzyme we can meet title change the enzyme so that it wasn't going to be activated by Resort 12 and we found that mutation now that just technically known TechLink technically means that we could change the enzyme in a way it wouldn't work so we didn't put that non-working enzyme into a cell and now we have a mouse that doesn't work let me give it Resveratrol and if it works it means I'm wrong if it doesn't work is blocked by that change in the enzyme we're probably right and that's what we did but the real the real change was that it was a company that I started that was making drugs the one that killed or at least seem to cure psoriasis and they had made these very synthetic molecules that were not real

it to the plant molecules are held and so I said to myself into the student who was working on it before it breaks you if if the change in that ends on also blocks the drug Remeron to something because that means two separate groups working on separate types of molecules different people different systems all get blocked by this one little changing the enzyme then were right and and so he walked over the company got the molecule through it on the enzyme and it didn't work on the mutant and that was me rejoice and because I could say there was a universal activation mechanism on this one enzyme is virtual works the molecules at the company work and now there's an interesting thing that just came out from Spain that metformin the diabetes drug

may actually work the same way as these other molecules by activating out favorite enzyme the sirtuin wow and how how much time were you in the dark lands it was a couple years of hell

fright if it gets a bad because you've got this tight-knit group of scientists and have left meetings in your present your results and usually a very supportive trying to help I have one guy saying to my student David doesn't always talking about you should work on this it's been proven wrong he was dead Against Me In My Own live on paying your salary and it's okay to be constructive but vicious within my own group supposed to say he wasn't a microscopic wow now this other guy that used all these other vicious words about you where is he at now not sure I would know I would know

now I don't have time to look back on your phone and nicer than me

you know what in science cuz it's very clever Dave and your wife and your enemies are reviewing your own work if you build up too many enemies you want survive out here approach I'm just kidding I probably would do exactly what you did but it's still it's got to be beautiful to come out on the other end and be proven correct and actually be at the Forefront of these emerging Technologies well it is not rest on your laurels but the

what I do is I pause and I remember how hard it was to get here, and how fortunate I am to have made it this far and I'm working with hundreds of collaborators around the world to make this come true this idea that we can really treat aging and prevent deterioration so I'm blessed to have an app on my phone that I've helped engineer what's up it's called Lua Lui and what is that

what's it's a little company that we bought in New York and

nurses and dentists use it to pass medical information around but we use it to share information between scientists around the world and coordinate activities between company started I think I mentioned to you that I've started a few companies but I'm trying to build companies that are the 21st century version of a Pharma company that is actually has a decent reputation in the world I think it's pharmaceutical companies with it's deserved or not have a pretty bad rap I'm trying not to fall into that trap but I'm also trying to use 21st century technology to not become too bureaucratic as well within the organization that's what the luau lap office us you were also talking I don't know if you talked about this before the podcast about how you have to make sure you have zero conflicts of interest

yeah it's hot so I don't I don't sell any supplements I don't endorse anything no products but if you look on the internet via Google David Sinclair and in a day or aging you'll see that people put my name in my face all the time on their websites and I get questions every day every morning I wake up which product are you endorsing and it's extremely careful so do you have to have a lawyer contact those companies tell me take your name down yeah yeah it's it's always sending out letters but I have to do it my reputation is everything and also want to be able to have opinions on these molecules without someone accusing me of doing it for profit that's what I would think could be us because he's making money yeah

that's what would be yeah that would be the same that we especially because most people aren't going to do real research and developed a nuanced understanding of your work and what you doing what it means and how long you been studying it they go always doing it because it's making me like I'm done now right well. Made a fair amount of money in my life my first company even though it wasn't the major shareholder it was sold for $520 so that money if I'm not immune to but I do reinvest almost all of it actually all of it my wife will tell you into new Ventures to change the world so I thought the Lyme disease company in am I be 66 company Metro these are funded initially by me now the conflict arises because I'm studying these molecules in the lab and I'm on the board of directors in advising companies is jimin Park jimin

the only way around that is a scientist that we have to we have is out offenses we disclose everything so initially I would disclose it to the government and to Harvard full scientist have to do that but I'm going to step further just to try and beat Ultra transparent with the public and so I don't website you go to my lights website you'll see everything that I do and hopefully that's a protection from my being accused of being biased but what I I definitely do in my lab is I say to the shootings if you get a whiff that I'm doing anything by it. I wouldn't do anything consciously but maybe there's some despised let me know what university not really fine but I've been doing this for 25 years pretty good

putting up a wall between the two and the other thing that I want everybody to know is in the lab would you write basic research we try to understand the fundamental reasons why we age and how to reverse it the company's I'm all worried about how we going to do a clinical trial which is very different world so they don't ever let much now when you want to bring something to try something to the market or do you want to try something people what's the process like say if you have some sort of a molecule that you want to try out on people what is that process

also it's a few years of often making a better molecule but let's say you've done that work now you spend a year testing it on at least two different species usually a road Emmaus, and the dog and but you try to do everything you can before that to make sure it's not going to be unsafe to sing on sales and all the things that are not looking for at least not to feel anything at the FDA Food and Drug Administration requires you to make a drug you have to test it on at least two different species so that's what you do and then it's you going to what school they wanted to safety testing takes one to two years phase two is huichol efficacy which is just really work potentially so you test that on fifty to a hundred people

maybe it works maybe it doesn't most things fail if it looks good then you going to phase 3 which is $5,200 worth of experiments testing it on hundreds of patients and if that goes well then you apply to the FDA to be licensed to sell a drug so the amount of money it must cost to bring something to a Meijer open your mother it's hard must be staggering if it's it's staggering to raise that much money and that that's one of the reasons that the big numbers come out

often we have to tap the public markets to be able to afford it, it's a typical drug will cost him hundreds of millions of dollars some drugs that failed after $700 investment look at the upside if we're successful at having a drug that treats aging a disease like diabetes first but then it could become the best selling drug of all time prison safe who wouldn't want to have a drug that could protect them from all these major diseases yeah but how much would something that you have to sell it for so much wanted to make up for all the research money right is that works that's how it usually works but

for the first time I'm in control of many of these companies and I have a large say in them at least and I as an individual and pledging that we won't do that we're not going to put the prices up to what the market can bear we want is a gift to the world and so that's a very different approach and it's one of the reasons that I've enlarged pot use my own money to do these things so I can have that say and do what's right for the planet so when you do do that how will you decide how much something costs based on the ability to just maintain the company while yeah we have been profitable otherwise it'll it'll goes away but not to the point of extortion is it there's a nice Mill grinding what right you don't want to be like that guy that went to jail for the AIDS drug what's up assholes name

you know I kid you know what is shkreli pharmaceutical company

that's amazing right because pharmaceutical drug companies are always thought as being the devil mean while they're responsible for so many things to keep people alive as well but because the factor connected to things like Oxycontin and Fentanyl and things that kill people and it's been proven that there are certain unscrupulous drug companies that have pushed things out there that they no have negative effects because they knew they could profit from it right well it's not everybody's ethical but as long as I have a say in these companies that will be all traffic all you got to make sure that you stay alive they're going to try to take you out bro mail yeah I don't know about that but the company I found the prophets I found like-minded investors for the first time that's amazing to let me know how how have you managed to cultivate that relationships it's hotter than a kind with a pitch to a capitalist but it's mainly meeting the right people I want to see that they're on board to I don't want to

somebody who's out to make profit right but you still can make profit profitable but don't go crazy help the world yeah and so we just recruited to go to the company someone from a consumer company which is a strange choice right but there's a person who's done right at that company for the world a company that used to make just cuz you want products that one healthy and he turn that around and that's the kind of person I want to work with who cares about the planet more than they care about the ultimate profit that's awesome man was keeping keep me in the loop I want to know what's going on I'm a try all these things you said so I'm going to go out I'm going to buy some nmn I'm going to buy some Resveratrol I got to find a quack that's willing to prescribe me metformin

I got you know he's shaped we'll talk later and then the other stuff that SRT 2104 that stuff but where would one get that that's experimental let's play the hottest one day until do I need to pay somebody off anything else I need to know about

how do you hatch an alarm just 23andMe basically you know I haven't is a more extensive versions of it than that there are a few thousand bucks do y'all do you know I don't think you'll learn a lot more mainly cuz we're ignorant as to what that stuff doing it was pretty interesting now as far as finding out about my ancestry and where my relatives come from yeah it's a good stock some really interesting things to about my Origins and I'm counting cystic fibrosis tea and whatever wow but what school is now a Mojang you can manage that data with the inside track your data and have his ultimate personal angel for help but we'll hopefully one day be on all of us that we got personal tracking device he'll tell us if there's something going wrong if you got a cancer cell detected go get that eliminated it's crazy these days we have to wait till there's actually a tumor that's making you sick before you should go to the doctor and actual issue will now I

know why you're so excited about the future see you you have an inside track on this yeah front row seat and I'm glad to share a little bit we can listen to self thank you I really really appreciate it tell the listeners and the viewers what your website is

I just have a hobbit website but I will be out tweet about this I'm I'm going to website for book that I plan from riding now it's going to come out later this year we heart when it comes out come on back thank you David really really appreciate it that's it by everybody

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