#959 - Mick West

May 10, 2017

Mick West is a game programmer, writer, and debunker. Currently runs a few websites including MetaBunk.org and ContrailScience.com. 

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hey everybody how you doing huh this Friday May 12th two days from today I'm at the Verizon Wireless Theater in Grand Prairie Texas just outside of Dallas with my friend Tony Hinchcliffe and my friend Ian motherfuking Edwards and then July 7th I am at the Cobb Theater at the MGM next week the 17th I'm going to be announcing a bunch of tour dates and I'm going to Tweet tour presale thing I got like 20 dates coming up I got the calling it a tour

fancy words you know how this works you know how they do it in as far as this episode of the podcast is brought to you by this new Lewis Black audible series called the rant is due it's a comedy series from audible channels and you can hear the latest episode free right now at audible.com written excuse me I'll tell you right now at audible.com Lewis Black so I guess it's like a rant that he's he's doing every week at audible the show is written by the fans it says you can rant about everything from politics to relationships to anything is driving you mad by submitting your aunt to Lewis Black right now and then listening to the rent is due oh so you can have a rest and then Lewis Black will read your aunt interesting but he doesn't know Lewis Black he's a fucking great guy and he's alaria stand up comedian he's a regular on The Daily Show he's had stand-up specials on HBO and comedy

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metabunk he's a former video game programmer who cashed in cash doubt I guess cash out all his money and decided to

do scientific experiments and run a website debunking bullshit things like Flat Earth theory and that's where I want to talk about today because it's just hilarious that here we are in 2017 with all the signs that we have access to there's a bunch of folks out there that are claiming the Earth is flat yeah so what we talked about that and many more things so give it up from Mick West

The Joe Rogan Experience

and we live Vision gentleman we live sporting the latest round earth shill we're just coming out with it round earth shill t-shirts both Jamie and I get $3 per month from the federal government to tell you that the way the world is round and Mick West is a big part of it all he is one of the main chills that tells everybody that he know that has a whole website dedicated to arguing against people think the world is flat difference is that I get paid for it, stop lying I know you getting 350 per month I wish I did I see my quest series not joking around with us this is got to be one of the most bizarre Trends and Jamie I think you said it first that you thought it was originally a troll you saw that they were fucking around like still think some people are yeah for sure but I feel like it started out with like four

or something like that and maybe read it he's crazy kids these wacky kids they decide to start rolling saying that the Earth is round or the Earth is flat some of it and they actually believe it yes and then it's because really really hard to tell where the driving line is who's actually traveling and his actually a genuine True Believer of True Believers but there's also a lot of people was like little green frogs in their Avatar the think it's fucking hilarious yes and that's just something that you could do is if you want to just annoy people but shitposting you'll just post a bunch of Flat Earth memes cuz the so infuriating to the average person

but I just can't say what the heck is this a video with this guy was renting on on that it's not a theory that we need to stop accepting that the Flat Earth is a theory but that it's a fact we need to start accepting the fact that's a fact he was hilarious when we find is a shaved it his I think his name is like vegan Warrior something like that which always ABS vegan Warrior he's a realist it says it's know how long he's not only a flat earther he's a realist I think I've come across to him a relatively small number of people who are really active in promoting the flight of stuff on YouTube what's an adorable is that they could keep claiming that all the photos of Earth are fake but they don't have a single photo of this fucking ice ball that's supposed to be around Antarctica and they keep saying

erroneously that you're not allowed to fly over Antarctica like yes you are they keep saying that there's no photographs of Earth from space that they're all composite no that's not true why do they keep saying that they keep saying that there's a fucking saddle is a bunch of satellites for this one from Japan to take high-resolution photos of the Earth every 10 minutes the full Earth from 22000 miles away at the same resolution country the Russia has won the most to see India China has one is not as good as the other ones but that the Russian one is like a resolution 121 megapixels that's the size of the image

11000 pixels by 11000 pixels view of the earth and you can zoom in and you can you can see cities you can see contrails and you can actually use these images from the satellite starts we match up with the views of clouds and controls from the ground so you guys should check to see if these images are actually correct at least the way you are right then you can like find a friend somewhere else do you have like this type of cloud ever had a verify whether these these images are actually real or not he said all the photos are fake They look fake as you know what a real photo of Earth from 22000 Miles look like when they look exactly like Earth

I think when you get to that stage of deep belief you kind of have to believe that faith is Norway a real challenge like how do you write to break through that with somebody how can you actually convince them that something isn't fake if they just automatically assume it's fake and I think has how's the person actually looked in detail at these images most people know and how they look to the factory near you get one every ten minutes I want every 15 minutes and do every single images is 121 megapixel image and the old matches up exactly with what the weather is around the world and how much is up with all the other side images on the Russians from the Chinese from the Japanese they all match up and I really don't think that the people who say it's fake I really actually looked so they have any desire to it's a belief issue and it's it's almost like a religious issue it's a really fascinating it's completely infected the world of professional

players really professional pool player professional pool players there's a guy named CJ while he's a top pool player who's a hundred percent convinced the Earth is flat line out of mine thinks the World is Flat I would have had relation to that are like obsession with the table being flashed I don't think so I'm getting on with you around hippo balls what's confusing is there smart guys like to be talked to them you'd like this a reasonable intelligent guy how they really believing that is what percent of sexual YouTube rabbit hole and that's part of the problem is once you believe something it's very difficult to unbelieve it it is and there's so much out there yeah if you tell people to do some research while you end up doing is just looking at more videos I believe that

it's just amazing to me that people would decide that all these photos were fake so that they don't believe the world is round because they don't have a single photo of this fucking Flat Earth not one that one photo not only that every planet you see is round you can you could follow them you could look at them with if you have a reasonable telescope you could see the difference as they change and spin I mean you can tell that they're round and a lot of flat earthers have the same camera that I've got which is a Nikon p900 camera they have a problem with it Devlin Nikon has a deal with the Flat Earth Society is this this camera is just like he's not like a SLR anything it's just like a $600 camera zoom lens on it like a it's like a 2000 mmmm zoom lens so you can see zoom in on

end of a venus and you can actually just make out the round us of the planet and the actual shadow of the sun like used to go see Venus as being like the Moon being like an arc and you'll see Jupiter and you see the bands of Jupiter and you can do that with this camera on this is a camera that a lot of them have because they are obsessed with assuming it all the things that are on the horizon. Ships going Beyond the Horizon the same camera that they haven't pointed upwards they were actually see things in the in the solar system basically that Rudy come to explain to me the way I am great thing is the moons of Jupiter if you look at a Jupiter real close to leaving with some binoculars you can see it's got these for a little moons are orbiting it then it looks like all the lights in a line with with Jupiter and they actually move around in a regular passion

remove brand new Cooperative like like some of them are even with binoculars and if you actually want you from day to day you will see the moons of Jupiter move in exactly the same way that science predict such that they should move when using Kepler's laws of planetary motion and Newton's Newton's law of gravitation they will remove exactly as if they are a little simulation of a planetary system so either that some kind of weird hologram up in that little corner of the sky which moves around or there was actually a funny that I was little moons orbiting it probably hologram when did you first become aware of this but you give run metabunk for a long time and for those who don't know Mick and I met on the Syfy show that it did Joe Rogan questions everything where we we discuss the chemtrails

contrails what causes a jet engine to make what looks like artificial clouds by passing through condensation In the Heat of the engine produces these contrails and people are absolutely convinced that these that they're spraying the government of spraying something in the sky and you caught it you you had a really good! You said their base he looked at training wheels for conspiracy theories cuz it's it's something you can see ya think he's today's kind of more enticing yes and I think the same thing applies to the fly into the Flat Earth thing it was a few years ago so

the government is trying to up is that your camera yeah yeah

Batman government spying like when I was young he told me that he was a member of the Flat Earth Society your father told you that I was joking around kind of thought he was doing it in a kind of ironically he was like saying people too sure of themselves and so I'm going to join the Flat Earth Society he didn't believe the Earth was round so it's been around for quite a while as being around you have obviously like when people thought the Earth was round and then it's like if you a thousand years ago people figured out that it wasn't here to stick it out by the ancient Greeks I'm by the likes of years ago the people thought the Earth was round and they realize it wasn't

right now you give gave them fuel that's a quote was going to go and I am mechelle quotes so so what happened was science basically figured out the shape of the universe and there was no gentleman scientist doing things with stars like measuring the old bits and checking out how far away things would have been discovering that they were galaxies and things like that and it's only science going on but then it was his kind of this guy comes along Samuel rowbotham who will relax in 1860 and he started publishing what is basically the same as Eric debase book being published now

pretty much every single thing that is in Eric today's current book you will find in Samuel Road bothans book from 1860 NE fact if you read the base book which I don't recommend you will see that about 80% of the text of Eric Dubay is book he's actually quotes from these books from the 1800s it's not actually stuff that has discovered stuff like you know if somebody walks away from you you will see that feat disappear first and then he has a two-page quotes of Samuel rowbotham saying the exact same thing from the 1860's

tasty can recycling this this Theory the stuff it in the 1860s and then just having a few those sprinkles to it like that saying that satellites are fake as well yeah he's hilarious he thinks that dinosaurs are fake nuclear bombs are fake I mean there's the idea that one person to be this masterminded discovers all these Monumental frauds creationist Center at people that have that I thought I looked but yeah he's basically We Cycling theories in a way that is popular to the reader and figuring out how to get them across the people say write sea does the YouTube videos that's a very engaging and they sound good sounds if you don't know what's what did they sound like they make sense that's the problem and some of them are quite technical

at least they use a lot of technical terms right about the day the delve into things like this and bright experiments the michelson-morley experiment the Eddy mentioned is one of them that's keeps cropping up and then does the the way that they wanted the michelson-morley the michelson-morley experiment was an experiment to detect the luminiferous Aether which is the supposed medium through which light travels

now back in the eighteen-hundreds we didn't know that I like with makeup out of photons cuz light was was wave so we thought that there was this stuff that permeated all space call the Luminous luminous luminous luminous Forest eater Sandlot pronounce and that this is what light travels through as waves going through and how it works but bigger than must be this stuff that simulates all of space and then they figured that since the Earth was moving and the scientist actually need with the time that the Earth was moving so they were using this as a basis for their experiment it's all that moving then they will be able to detect Visa by doing these experiments what did you decide it was worth a shot like One Direction than the other direction then when it came back together it come by and and if they were moving through the ether or if they eat with moving through them then the Lightning win one way would interfere with the with the life of the other way so that was the whole experiment was just just this thing they shut these two light beams in two directions

and it figured like you know if we turn the type of this way it will change because we're not going through theater in different direction will happened was nothing was detected

which is kind of the start of people realizing other there is no luminiferous Aether that was what the Flat Earth they did they did Michelson and Morley knew this was moving they wanted to figure out whether the ether was moving in with the Earth or whether the Earth was moving through the ether right now they're trying to detect the ISA so people who thought that the Earth was the center of the universe not really so much about flat earthers people who is a Centrist people who feel that the sun went around the earth and the whole all the stars went around the earth still people like that by the way to the center of the universe essentially he was saying that sort of confirms everything in Genesis

yeah well I mean if you need to shoot her on the whole universe into the descriptions in Genesis then you probably have to take a few few shortcuts these these experiments like that the michelson-morley experiment and the people bring them up and they say that what they detected was no motion detected was no luminiferous Aether because eventually lights to like there is about what light actually is which is wave particle duality you spoke songs with Jack both as a wave and a particle and eventually to the theory of relativity metabunk when when did you about 5 Years Ago by bending the chemtrail stuff with contrell science feel like I would 10 years now I was just looking at one of my old posts when when satellite images that's got surprised at how long I've been doing it

and thinking about 5 years and the Flash that stuff came up maybe two years ago I started to see things about Flat Earth and get over a year ago I wrote a post on it what what should we do about debunking the Flat Earth and it basically sides like all these people are basically have the trolling or the crazy so I know there's no point dressing either of them and I think most of them was just calling cuz no one could seriously believe that you have to be like I don't think you're right come to realize that I'm not a ice bass come down the line but it's it's me I've almost dinner like the 180 from that it's stunning it really stunning and it's stunning how many people like this by Jamie made these young Jamie. Cam you can go and get these flatter chill shirts that somehow another we're being paid to say the Earth is round like the idea that anybody I've had so many people to eat at me

I know where your checks to come in from bro you're fucking sell out I'm a sellout like why would I don't think that if I really thought the Earth was flat like if someone thought the Earth is flat what a revelation that would be amazing Discovery every scientist would be clamoring to expose this every single size of the idea that all these scientists who make their name off discoveries by the way especially a Monumental and provable Discovery like the world being flat like somehow or another they would hide that and then the big question is why would the government say the world is flat but why would they in anyway why would they rather hide the fact the World is Flat like what what motivation would anybody have to show that the world was round pretty fascinating and we lived on this flat disk and everybody else throughout the Universe was in an auto Planet would you like whoa what's going on in there's a weird thing is going on with some of these Flat Earth people wear their linking this to a sign that we are in some way special that we are the chosen ones and it wouldn't you know when some it's a good she's going back to Jenna

and that you know that we are the children of God and that the creation is true and that evolution is a lie and it gets to some weird anti-jew stuff with a lot of these guys left a lot of conspiracy theory is basically boils down to some kind of Suspicion of other people and quite often suspicion of Jewish people break I didn't exactly why I think that she knows perhaps because of the the whole the Jews kill Jesus Christians don't like the Jews are some Christians don't like the Jews yeah so they've just being viewed as being held there often you have the Jewish the broad a Jewish population is often like a minority within set is an easy person to pick on when things go wrong. I'm sure this loads of books racing on white by Jews are the subject of conspiracy theorist they have them a recent video about Jews in about Hitler

don't go down that road what what can be done if anything other than your website what can be done if anything to like Mike my concern is young kids that are on the fence my thoughts are like I'm not going to reach out this some 45 year old crazy person who is making YouTube videos three times a day about the world being flat and ranting and raving and challenging everyone to debate that is never going to gauge in that those guys don't mean anything to me you can't do anything about them but there's some 16 year old kids out there that major in high school and maybe don't have a real formal education in in science or astrophysics and they getting confused and then they they maybe smoke a little too much pot that's you and you start it's the eye that I've been tricked before and I wrote this big

Instagram post recently about rods how about those Roswell rods writing God they got me documentary and this guy had the footage of these things are flying around we can't see that's crazy and then a show called if you never saw the there was a guy that made this video a documentary I think I made more than one and it showed there was these things that look like tubes that had jellyfish-like wings they were flying through the air supposedly it speeds undetectable to the human eye like they're moving so fast we couldn't see them and so I was convinced man I was

and then there's a show called MonsterQuest and what they did is a set of 2 camera One camera that which was a very fast high speed camera and the other one which is a standard video camera and the standard video camera caught all these rods flying around and then the exact same images right next to each other with this high-definition high speed camera showed actual bugs so what those rods were was just a video artifact of these bugs that were moving so close to the screen and so fast that the camera could register correctly and so created this elongating effect and made it look like there is jellyfish I think that type of thing that type of video is the type of thing that needs to be done to counteract this type of work I put those images up and it's filled people angry at me

how do you get people to look at things but I think about you if you still slowly but I do it I engage with a lot of like a conspiracy theorist online and I know when I'm doing it I'm not actually going to reach the vast majority of the people I'm talking directly to the I know there's lots of other people reading what I'm saying who who will and you just because people are complaining about your posts of the himawari 8 images doesn't mean that there aren't people who actually went to love to talk I'm sure because I think it got like 50,000 lights or something like that so I'm sure even beside people didn't like it many people there were really like is because there's that was one of the big things that they the Flat Earth people kept saying that there's no photos of the earth that aren't a composite from space like that it's just not true this is Rox video teaser with two cameras if that hadn't existed you might have taken a bit longer to M you might still believe in now you might be telling you friends with Siri

video showed up at a Q&A that I did once for the UFC games where people yell out questions like what you think about this guy fighting and he waited in line to get front of the line to tell me that I was wrong of the rods are we like to, you still buying it you still eat still selling it because they call him Roswell rods just hilarious implying that amount of the alien yeah I got to probably some guy was at Roswell taking pictures trying to get UFOs and some bucks believe I wasn't even Roswell that's what's funny to call Roswell Rob the best footage is from Mexico you know they have that one really enormous cave but it's a it's a whole essentially a gigantic pit and people skydive into it but I never seen that it's pretty wild but they filmed they've set up a camera to watch them jump off the edge and parachute down and you see the rods flying by that was like the best footage was from Mexico from this one place so they had nothing to do with Roswell

welrod cuz they're dorks it probably had the weather for looking down the darkness of the pit below and then they had it up the shaft of sunlight in front of that so the bugs are flying for the sunlight with a dark background we had a thing you didn't I say so it would have been like an unusually good environment for four of rods to the show up in exactly exactly and it's in that guy meme waiting in line to get the front of line to ask me a question to tell me that he has the evidence I need to see it it's that kind of thinking is once someone commits to an idea it's very difficult to shake them off of it and they just look for confirmation bias they just look for someone else to agree with them they find communities they find these Flat Earth communities which is hilarious the flat one of the best on the best fucking unintentional hilarious things are read online this dude wrote The Flat Earth Society has members all around the globe

whoops didn't even realize what he was saying or is that just him I just I recently did a bunk of a UFO Chilean Navy supposedly saw a Navy helicopter have the infrared camera and they saw this this black to black dots off in the distance that look like a weird thing like a like a figure 8 stop things flying away and they sounded like spraying out this stuff and they can't figure out what it was and they chased after it but it was too fast and he got away from them and the Chilean government has an official UFO investigation

team and they they set them on the agenda spent two years figuring out what it was and they couldn't figure out what it was and says they said it's a it's a confirmed unidentified object and then they publish their findings and then I and some other people on metabunk look today we figured out that was actually just a plane flying away from the helicopter leaving some contrails behind can we actually figured out exactly what which playing it was just a bit of play online and it was on like Covington post and things like that and some UFO enthusiasts started talking to me and I joined that groups and I joined a few other groups and then I found myself in this kind of weird corner of the internet where everybody believes in UFOs unquestioningly and they're always putting up these photographs of things and people look like all great catch dude and it just something like street lights or something but they they

I think they have this is confirmation bias this group confirmation bias where they can't disagree with someone and they know they're in a safe space so they can put out whatever theory that they like and I know that people will be like that just very supportive of them one that happened a couple of days ago someone put up a picture of a strange light that used to say was in the sky and so I downloaded the picture and it boosted the brightness on a story was actually a reflection all the something in a security light on a porch and you can see you is like those trees behind it there's a security license so I posted that and then I started getting cold like a shill for pointing this out why don't you believe me why you were looking validating like you need my claim right until they want to have these kind of the world Gardens where everybody believes the same thing that's a good way to put it

the walled Gardens that that is what this community seems like and that's one of things that I found when I did that television show I I still harbored a few conspiracy theory before I did that show but doing that show for several months and constantly interviewing people who believed in outlandish things I found the same thing over and over and over again illogical people with very little evidence in almost a religious way and I found it with Bigfoot and I found it with UFOs and I found it with Chemtrails and I found it with one after the other in varying stages of ridiculous feel like contrails and chemtrails were the most nutty people UFO people seem to be the most reasonable because it's the most reasonable Theory out of all of them the idea that we have spaceships why doesn't someone else have spaceships there's hundreds of billions of galaxies in the known universe hundreds of billions of planets in each Galaxy the odds of there being some sort of a life-form out there is pretty high

there's nothing that's the craziest thing like the more I went into the more I talk to these people the more I went over all their evidence are quotes evidence the more I asked them why they believe things there is nothing there's not a goddamn thing that you can put on a scale is not a thing you can way cuz I've seen that you can measure there's not a thing you can look at a photo and go while it's compelling there's not one is just an idea and then idea is that there's something in the sky that flies around that we you know either might catch if you're there the right place at the right time or not and that they're from another planet that I can look at where they put forward at the best evidence is often likes nothing cases from the 60's where there's an eyewitness who said something I thought was some guy on the road who says he blacked out since like you know he's messed up I know too much about psychedelic drugs and I know about endogenous psychedelic drugs the brain producing is chemical called dimethyltryptamine that happens when you sleeping now they've proven that this stuff is

produced in the liver and in the lungs and they believe it's now they've they've got evidence is produced in the pineal gland is a very potent psychedelic drug that your brain produces and your brain produces it during REM sleep so these people they all take naps and during his nap they have these crazy fucking dreams and it's entirely possible that during these dreams what happen is they got some in dodging is DMT dump or they were under stress or whether they just had to just radek dump of this human neurochemical that entered into their bloodstream whatever it is they caused it is all these fucking UFO abductions all of them like almost exactly happen at night and they happen when people are sleeping like when you just assumed that you were dreaming why would you assume you were dreaming I have these I used to have these kind of night terrors hallucination things are kind of like that yeah it was always the same type of thing it was like a giant spider

I know I move how it's like in a frozen for a second that I have been out with then I would jump out of bed and turn on the lights and light look for the spider know what time like I can see if someone's having a different type of hallucination the scenes of it more real and then you know it maybe it's it it it came in between sleep cycles for them then tell her yeah you can completely real yeah well I had I used to have it all the time and it was always like to have this is horrible it was like China really realistic spider it wasn't like you know I was dreaming it somewhere else I was in the room and I could see it like I was seeing something crawling across the table that I have is hallucination I don't regret the money more than what it was confused and hormones and nerves and I also like your brain starts fill in the blanks you know very good understanding of the universe and you know how your brain your imagination runs wild

confusing to me doing that television show and it really changed me a lot and it changed me the point that people started accusing me of being co-opted by the government have the government threatened my family and told me to stop talking about conspiracies like and then they had the idea that I wouldn't say that if that was the case like you don't think I fucking tell everybody if someone threatened my family could have talked about UFOs I'd be telling everybody I do like a man and hotel all my friends would like to be fucking threaten me cuz I was talking about UFOs this shit is real Hangar 18 Area 51 want to go public strong like how many people it would take so cover-ups and conspiracies theories and the probability of none of those people ever talking and it's just ridiculous like you can't have tens of millions of people in on the conspiracy and the Flat Earth

shipping routes and overseas flights and the fact that you can fly West and land East I mean you you can land in one spot take off again last night and you can actually get to the same spot that you're at with a bunch of different flights that you can track them on a GPS I mean that's tight to GPS try to introduce two people who believe in the Flat Earth is this concept the ground truth and truth is a concept in Satellite observations which I kind of feel like you you text I like I'm Sebastian and you see doesn't match what you see on the ground or if you got something like the weather prediction model like you picking the weather you see does that match what you see on the ground and this is something that you can do if you're actually really interested in looking into the Flat Earth theory is figure out what the actual ground truth is for something now

very briefly about a program called stellarium but you might have might have seen is just basically a solar system simulation shows watching the night sky you from seeing his little things on your phone where you hold it up and it shows you what the Stars on your phone as well so I would encourage people to do is figure out like is this program actually correct is it actually showing me what we see in the night sky and you can do really easily and I basically you just look at what's on the screen and then you go outside and you look to say is this what I'm saying on the screen here so this is basically you checking the ground truth of this program which seems like you know very straightforward thing but then what you can do from that is you can then use the program to look at the sky from other positions and because you verify that is correct for where you are and you can ask someone else to verify its correct or where they are and you can check for like other photographs that are being taken to see if they match of as well

you'll eventually build up near the knowledge that this program is correct distillery in program all the little program you have in your phone that shows you the stars in the sky so you've got this computer showing you what it expects to see from any position any position anywhere on the world and you by doing ground-truth observations I figured out figured out what it actually I said so that's something you see in stellarium obviously in a much less like to lift it environment when you have here a lot of what's going on with these people that are theorizing keep that up with a lot of what's going on with these people theorizing about Flat Earth and there seems to be some desire the people have to expose Hidden Truths hidden hidden discoveries are are the things that are somehow or another being kept from everybody and the what's what's fascinating to me is they're looking into this nonsense they're looking into this thing that's not real when

the real space like the actual like what is observable about space is so mind-blowing and somehow or another that is what you absolutely can see everyday when you absolutely can observe what you absolutely can read about and learn about in which scientist or discovering on a daily basis is so mind-blowing when you see like they don't believe sound like to really see how many satellites we actually have that's what's really fucked it's not that there's no satellite many satellites are too many thousands of them up there and they have the time like space flights that the time-space lights based on whether or not they're going to hit the satellites or space junk are some of the stuff that's been ejected from various rocket trips I mean it's still floating I'll be there you see the movie Gravity

eventually all the satellites get so I can get knocked out that they tried to do the try to capture kind of yeah they were trying to like catch a bunch of space junk with a net right somehow or another the other is flashing internet was stuck in this weird prison where people are are keeping us here yeah yeah that's the thing to that somehow or another by being on a flat Planet it gives you a different perspective they don't want you to have that perspective so they tell you the world is round like it doesn't make any sense yeah one thing I've heard is that they think that if they can convince you that the world is flat when it isn't then it's kind of like in 1984 where they get people to believe that two plus two equals five

and they've actually indoctrinate people to genuinely believe that even though they know it's not true but they still believe it and it's a way of Mind Control said the same thing would have happened with the flash effect on the phone or grandmas Kylie not just convincing someone the two plus two equals five and war eagles peace excetera excetera you convincing them that the Earth is flat when it's actually around so by doing wasting their minds around something that's the most Ripley Falls and making them think that is correct then you gaining power ever die mines in the same way that they did in 1984 in the same way that scientologists do or Mormons do or anybody that create some sort of an ideology that's provably false I mean look there's not a whole lot of difference between Scientology and Flat Earth theory mean there really isn't it mean if you really read L Ron Hubbard's work if you read what his actual theories were about the origins of mankind it's pretty fucking Looney and yet there's thousands and thousands of men

Scientology the point where now they're making documentaries about in writing books about it and these people are coming out and escape the church and its harrowing stories mean I had this guy my podcast couple weeks ago David miscavige his dad this life I lived in the Scientology world for 50 years it's crazy it's crazy. Flat Earth theory it's like gradually sucks you in a bit of time you haven't you sound so very reasonable at the more and more I like the feel that you get into it also the first the first original principles of it like when you start thinking positive and doing positive things as well benefits of that people start seeing those benefits feeling positive and then to get into the thetans in the Frozen Souls checked into the volcano and I like what I think you could argue that is some good in the Flat Earth

various search but the the flat-earth way of thinking like questioning things and I think this is something that people really like about it is that you don't you don't you don't believe scientists just because scientists say something is this thing the cold does it attic method which basically is a Greek word meaning questioning so you go to question everything you can't believe that gravity exists all the planets go around the Sun took a scientist do it you actually have to observe it for yourself and if you can talk to it for yourself and it isn't real which of these people think the Earth is flat because it's kind of a piss flight from various positions they haven't been into space or they haven't done the various experiments with you and it is not flat so I think young people who are exposed to the idea of his attention system and they think I'll ask right you know if I'm rebelling against Authority like young people do and I think like I will not believe

I will not play The Scientist I'll do my own research but then they get sucked into people like the Bay who feed them all this nonsense is very articulate talks mixes well edited videos and a very compelling and because he's not an authority he's not like you know part of the government seize rhymes with the old culture they tend to give his arguments way more weight than mainstream science scientist from the 1950s were paid off by Sugar companies to switch to blame too saturated fat and he started at riveting all these health problems that were really about sugar in about eating processed sugar so Trivium to the saturated fat to change a lot of people's diets and really fucked a lot of people up in terms of like if he was tardy margarine and all these things that are filled the trans fats and very unhealthy for you and they did it because

I thought that they were you know following science and so question science and questioning scientist you know occasionally you're right occasionally you'll find something like this this conspiracy by the the sugar industry is the old saying like trust you I verify that with the salt talks and that's a very good statement that's if you want to trust and Obey that's fine but like check check the things that he says I checked one of his things on the way here on the plane he has a lot of them say which is at the Horizon always Rises do I level two on the plane on the way here I check to see if there's actually correct now most people when they check to see if it rises Rises do I level they just look out the window and I level but one around us the Horizon is actually going down a little bit when you look out the window to play because you're thirty thousand feet up in the air. She drops around two or three degrees but it's very hard to see when you

looking out of out of the window of the plane size very easy to get taken into believing that is it stated I levels what I did is I took this a little Carpenter's level

brought a carpenter stop until 10 and then I said it level and wedged it so it was level and then I look for the tube on the top of this level and silhouette Horizon was and the Horizon was just below the end of a level so the Horizon it actually dropped away

which man the device playing about the Horizon rising to eye level which is something you'd expect on a flat Earth was actually incorrect send it to Mom stribley incorrect with this here to Dollar level which I feel free from somewhere and anyone can do this you don't even need to be in a plane if it works better if you just like about on a cliff or something like that isn't paid up but that's another claim that people keep saying that are devotees this Flat Earth idea that that if you get on a plane and you look up and you look out the window it looks flat but I do not think the people understand perspective and they do not understand how huge the Earth is when you see there's images someone did an image that showed how far you are up when you're thirty thousand feet in the air and then how how like a huge the Earth actually is and you get this like little image of a plane at 30,000 feet and then the. Of the plane is represented in the amount of distance between the Earth is in perspective and then you see how it

warmest the planet is and it's just you're dealing with something that's so big it's almost I mean it feels like it's flat it feels like it's why because it's enormous in your tiny yeah that's that's a huge issue with people is that they don't really understand the scale of the planet I need to understand how little it actually curves does the road if you look like a look up like the longest road in America longest straight road in America is this road is in Lake Oklahoma or somewhere and it's about straight cuz when you laid it out but laid it out too long a line of latitude so it's one of the lines that goes around around the earth so it's actually slightly cooked the way you look at it looks perfectly straight you have to actually liking to take the whole image and then draw a line from one end to the other than Google Earth and you see that it deviates by just a tiny little amount to drive along this road

driving around UIC turning right slightly the whole time it looks perfectly straight cuz it's hardly moving at all I was just a few miles it moves maybe like 10 feet or something and you people just don't don't don't realize just how small the curve of the earth actually is it looks flat with a lot of these theories lot of these really outlandish conspiracy theories is once they hook you it's very difficult to unhook yourself you you don't want to believe that you got taken you don't want to believe you've been had you don't want to believe you've been fooled so you keep going deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole and they keep finding more and more confirmation biased more people inside that Walled Garden as you put it

yeah some people actually go out and do scientific experiments and they try reasonably hot some of them but then they make some kind of mistake and then they they say this is actual proof that the Earth is flat why does the level experiment I date someone did something similar with that they said that you'd like a water level where you have to choose connected and used that the level of the water cuz there any of the water levels the same on both of them and inhale this up and see if they was below the Horizon but they did this experiment and they did it at sea level which man is always going to be about the same as the Horizon you like you're going to go up a thousand feet before you can say anything but they still even though they thought they were doing some science but they make this one key mistake and then they want to listen to anybody trying to tell them what the mistake actually was that people are a ridiculous amount of people doing Flat Earth experiments on YouTube and just getting it completely wrong

play the most common one is people taking photographs or something that they think shouldn't be visible from a certain position by don't say his Catalina Island and it's like 60 way according to the curvature of the earth that means it should have been out below 5 miles of curve and then some of them will I be the account for the fact that you got a you know how high the view is some of them was just go get in tally the wrong Island life will say this in sign language is Leia a hundred miles away and not looking something that's 40 miles away how come you can look out of the simple one how come you look out across the ocean you don't see anything on the other side over there so far away you can't see it they got an outlet that goes the you wouldn't go see anything right cuz the atmosphere

and they used to use it a lot to to make up for the reasons for sudden things like collecting Sky by The Horizon Science things that they claim to Syfy The Lure of perspective by Dolores despective isn't doesn't exist there's no llores perspective and if you was to make a lower perspective you could say that the size of something decreases eventually proportional to its distance so if you get twice as far away is half the size it because both times its size and that's it that's all the people talk about Vanishing points for that came up during the podcast with Eddie Bravo and Jamie brought it up and and then Eddie start posting pictures on his Instagram of a guy from the early nineteen-hundreds who is an artist who wrote something about the law of perspective in drawing just drawing he was just explaining how you how you define perspective when you illustrating things that's that's the Lord

specially on a piece of paper on a photograph is nothing at all to do with the real world is that right what you can what you can see visually what the image is projected onto your eyes or walk comes through a camera when you take a picture you know what's the actual perspective all things get things just get smaller but it said it sounds good when you say the law perspective it sounds good like you're invoking a loss for life of the Lord of universal gravitation or I don't have anything against these people I really don't my real concern is of young people listening to this that gets sucked into the stupid shit and there's so much that you could learn there's so much that's fascinating about the universe is so it's fascinating about the natural world is so much to learn and to waste any time the only thing that's good about it is you'll recognize the pitfalls that the human mind can slip into that I've slipped into that made people I know if so

I guess not. It's not like in any way shape or form it's not something to be embarrassed about her sad about it's just it's a normal natural human inclination to try to find things that are Hidden Truths are covered up Mysteries it's natural for whatever reason I think it's very much a part of growing up I think it's just it's different for different people buy a whole bunch of crazy ideas when I was growing up would you have I thought I could bring about world peace by getting a whole bunch of world leaders together and actually sent us to a bunch of world leaders and I think I'd like to the world leaders cuz they be back then I thought I can I can set up this organization of the relatives of will lead us to bring about world peace

that's kind of hilarious sneaky backdoor move who's who in the library library yeah I mean that's not even that unreasonable that's like you thinking well World Peace seems to make sense out of me does idealistic child can make a difference in rebelling against things ya delusions of solving great mathematical problems when I was like yeah problems like how do you trisect an angle with the fights the geometrical message which was proved to be impossible to do and yeah I still spend months and months trying to do it when I was a kid because I thought that can tell me what's impossible in what seems like it's possible to me and if you did discover it with a gigantic what it would have been better

I believe in a bunch of stupid shit and the big one for me that I've clung to longus as Bigfoot

that one man so hard for me to let that one go

because

first of all because of you used to be an animal used to be gigantopithecus but man when my friend Les Stroud actually started doing that show that Bigfoot show have you ever seen that show did that show with some fucking guy was just a total hoax her and a guy put on a Bigfoot mask and they got this high-resolution photo and video of this Bigfoot mask that they're claiming is Bigfoot to staring at them through the woods it is so stupid looking to find a Jamie and this guy this is how rocky this guy is the Bigfoot Community thinks he's full of shit that's when you know you fucked up when the Bigfoot Community is called Shenanigans feel like this guy I'm not buying this is funny people who are subtracted from Scientologist this is awesome

day one right but this one animal is just standing there any sec I think I see anything I say it so then towards the end of the video he gets really close so I can leave that 70s like look how clean its hair looks I mean it looks so dumb he gets close up on it look at that job by this is look up addresses here's a here's how you know it's fake whenever something looks like a dude in a monkey suit it's a dude in the monkey suit that's all you need to know because your brain Knows Your Brains like hey wait a minute like if you look at a gorilla a gorilla does on those are you a person in a gorilla suit they look at a giraffe does not look like a person and wraps it feel like a big foot and it looks like a dude in the monkey suit it's a fucking do the monkey suit like your brain starts filling in the blanks and also whether you recognize it or not your brain recognize recognize a geometry facial geometry recognizes a Fibonacci sequence

yeah and you see that's why people freak out when you see someone fake lips are fake nose upside down and gets plastic surgery in the face like radically alter their face it's jarring to us and one of the reasons why it's jarring is because the brain recognizes geometry and human facial recognition are you fake facial patterns in the structure of the face someone that geometry is off it's confusing to us like why are their cheeks so big why is that no so small why are the lips so big like what the fuck is going on like your your body starts you react to it put two sets of eyes on people with Magical Mystery pin in your face in my face are different but there's a science to you or the structure of your face that's apply to the science my face and that's the golden ratio

if you if you look at a person's face you can actually do the math where the chin is with her eyes are at all lines up and your brain recognizes and that's not the case so if you see that and you seem like a nice person. The first one is it is a person that's a person that's a dude in a monkey suit it's not even a good one and there's so many people that write out that Patterson footage which is so bad they think they believe so hard to believe so hard and it's as if it was the hardest one for me to realize those people are full of shit cuz when I was a kid man I don't want a Bigfoot to be real that was all that was a tough one.

and plus it was a real animal one point in time there was really a thing called gigantopithecus which is an 8 to 10 ft tall is it may have been by peel at least occasionally yeah it's how you want things to be true that UFOs I was I was I was going to into UFOs and all kinds of weird stuff on that when I was younger I think partly like you know me figuring out that a lot of it was just bullshittin was part of that my meditation forgetting until I debunking stuff later no harm in people believing in things like little kids believe in Santa Claus excetera. Type of things are the Christmas Easter Bunny it's just that for some people it kind of goes a bit wrong as a bit too far they don't let it that child has beliefs drop away as they get older they stay longer or when they need to come of age they may go into that come the next level of disbelief imaginary things that they wants to be true

hello. Bows down to what we talked about earlier than just trust and authority of people neon distrust of others and the belief that there's some secret cabal of people doing things to them the Illuminati and nothing is partly this kind of unnatural childish wanting to believe in things which we all have Daddy the idea that there's someone who's really on the ball that's watching us and going to make sure we don't fuck everything up very so so enticing if you're so amazing I think the movie Alien is probably more likely what's going to happen to stay I'm down here up thing about the UFO community and the Bigfoot community and all these different communities is that along the line they would come people that make a living at it and they become Queen alera quotes experts

and that that becomes a problem because then they have a vested interest in making sure that other people believe they start writing books they start doing lectures they start showing pictures and also here's what's interesting as the number of phones that have cameras have radically increased the number of usable UFO pictures is practically decreased by three times zoom on a high pictures of if there was a UFO you can take a real close to take pictures of planes all the time they're flying unit 5 miles away is 10 miles away or sometimes even like me over a hundred miles away and you can make out the plane you see the windows windows down because they've using these crappy little cameras in each County the windows go for less than 1 pixel wide Museum in Far Enough the windows appear during Over the Horizon when you zoom in right

speaking of this the camera this is something coming up in August which is the eclipse I was going to be a total eclipse of the sun over North America I think August 21st this year I think that would be a great opportunity for people to encourage anybody who believes in the flight to to actually stop looking at me at the what's going on how did how they going to justify it by 8 the actually look at it I think you did the challenge is getting people to look at things the excuse is that what's look at the eclipse was an amazing thing the moon goes in front of the Sun in blocks it out but I think that you're giving him too much credit I think also want to do is make a YouTube video with some wonky explanation for why an eclipse works that it works because the Earth is the disc in the sun gets below the disc in the blocks it out from below mean just doesn't seem to me that it's it's enough for the solar eclipse that they can stay

I know what you're saying is logical in front of the Sun for solar eclipse every time they believe that like the Earth's it's flat and then everything spins around the Earth by the spelling of sometimes the the moon is going to be below the sun and it blocked out a light at the Sun and that's how an eclipse happens on the Flat Earth and on the ground so it would be an amazing thing to say even if you're a flat Earth believer this is very rare a coincidence when they the Moon is in front of the sound so you should encourage people who have fought us believe is to look at this amazing thing that's happening they still don't give a fuk is there a is there uniformity in the Flat Earth community and they like all greed or is there is there like dissension do some people say you know that it's because

the ice-wall know there's no fucking ice wall just a drop off and this somebody dies the risk of Dane wigington who is this really popular guy and then you got like a bunch of other people want to see the videos he was a little loony and waking Titan is the guy who lives in a big house on 200 Acres up in the mountains somewhere and he got upset with solar panels be blocked by a country house and see if we can travel but he he's like the equivalent of Dewberry really cuz he's a guy who's really promoting it is all the people in the community who are doing the right thing and I thought it was so we can guys feel like crap because he believes in global warming and we don't start this this this is division between people who believe in global warming

trying to stop global warming and other people think that Chemtrails causing global warming and then there's other people that thing that can control something completely different this writing nanorobots to control people's minds the same type of range of things in the flat-earth Believers as well like you some people think that the other kind of concave actually flexible what about the hollow Earth people so yeah that's that's that's that's not even a thing that's like around with the hole in the try and a whole new world in their people live on the inside of the earth which makes even less sense than a flatter through my physical pain severe while they think is monsters in there are lizard people live on the Earth

possible to completely implausible why you think of some of the 9/11 conspiracy theories like at 1 and you've got like the World Trade Center was destroyed by nuclear bombs that were in the basement nuclear bombs nuclear bombs weapons from space like there was these beams of energy like high-powered microwaves or something that blew the buildings up and then you get more more plausible free planted explosives or some guys running their own the day with some explosives to blow building 7 and then you got just they let Goulding 7 burn when they didn't have to and then they got they they knew it was going to happen but it did nothing about it and then they have some warnings about it and they didn't even think about the seagull this whole range of plausibility for the conspiracies

reflective is pretty much all of this end because let the Flat Earth theory is either the Earth is flat or its round so with the flash of you only got very extreme and then more extreme there is some of the most extreme thing which we end up with is the everything is an illusion we are living in The Matrix conspiracy theory because one day if technology continues the way it has been there will come a time where they were able to create an artificial reality that indiscernible from this reality as long as we don't blow ourselves up and Technology continues to advance Innovation continues to advance the rate is now which is exponential it's entirely possible that a hundred years from now or whatever it is they'll be some way they can interface with your

somehow with your brain and create some sort of an artificial experience artifacts of living living in The Matrix glitches in The Matrix Berenstain Bears Berenstein bad wreck it called the bear sign guys named now people say sindbad sindbad sindbad

come a time where they lie musk not really convinced myself cuz it's kind of a simplistic arguments saying that technology will always advancing get better during their fundamental limits on like information Theory like how much information that we can process have you ever messed around with HTC Vive or any of the more recent state-of-the-art their mind blowing mind-blowing and this is one of the reasons why I subscribe to it I mean not today but I mean I think one day in the future or there's a hundred years or whatever it is technology years ago they were using televised and then what can we do today we take a film and send it to someone in Australia to get in real time I think it's it's very reasonable to assume that if you put on the HTC Vive they have this one underwater experience it's amazing Jimmy see if you can find it cuz I know it's in video form but I think it's reasonable.

things that you think that you are a real estate that you would be able to not detect that and the scientist wouldn't be able to detect that that we are all living in a simulation simulation just just you is it just your hat to see this right here this is you put this thing on I mean again we're in 2017 and this is all in it's fairly fairly adolescent stage and man when you're when you are in this thing and you looking around it's not necessarily high-definition it's it's it's very clear and you know that it's not real but God gives you this feeling and it's real men a whale pulls up and all these fish swim by it's amazing any more than anything it gives you a window into the future it gives you a window when you sit next to this way on it makes noises in the noises are all 3D it gives you a window when you start thinking about pong member pong the game that you play was like I can't believe I'm controlling something on the television

when you compare that to like Halo and the games that you play right now on an Xbox you like my God like the improvements are radical and I think that the improvements in this sort of artificial reality this virtual reality that you're seeing in this current HTC Vive a hundred years from now I would only imagine that we could get to a point where is indiscernible that somebody and you can put under microscope and you could dissect if you can look at another cell I haven't even seen the real you won't be able you will be able to I don't believe that they can make something that you could not detect your intelligence

you away from it make something that's indiscernible like while you're experiencing it this is us with the laws of physics I don't think within this universe you can make something that simulates the universe that's the same cuz that's just too much information in the universe to be stimulated by something that is within the universe or even something like this mall is like why doesn't he could see me like the entire Earth in our physical Universe in years from now. Thanks I think they're up their fundamental limits as to how much information will be required you can get something to say

an imitation of that but it will be detected be different it's like each each simulation is going to be lower Fidelity than the universe that creation act so you can only create something that's less complex than the universe you are currently in is that true though I mean as time moves on 5000 years now whatever it is I mean how could anyone possibly discern or how could even guess an estimate how far is it would Advance go back five thousand years ago people were modern humans it only the people that built the pyramids or modern humans right they look like us maybe a little smaller than get as much to eat they look just like us if you went five thousand years in the future it's not it's not unreasonable we don't blow ourselves up that you have some sort of quantum Computing some astronomical powerful devices that could render and create an artificial reality that felt to you entirely real I don't think that's outside the realm

not Universe the same quantum computers and it's going to lead us to well and you can create something that's artificially intelligent right which we feel like it's going to happen way quicker than 5,000 years from now if you create something is artificially intelligent it's going to improve upon its design almost instantaneously it's going to realize I give you give it autonomy I know it's going to happen today or should be fucking amazing knows that we are currently living in some sort of a computer simulation I don't discard it I give it a pause I mean I don't I don't subscribe or not subscribe to something as ridiculous as that because it seems to me within the realm of future possibility it's it's

thought experiment kits like if we are in a simulation we we're not going to figure it out if we do figure out the physics if they keep drilling down far far enough maybe eventually they'll discover like this some kind of artificial substrates of the universe whichever ones and zeros and that we are actually living in some kind of simulation but that's just basically is resolving the laws of physics more if we get down that day we can't do anything about it actually mean that we are living in some sort of an artificial ground or does it mean if that's what the universe is made of it's not artificial but that the Universe much like what we're creating like it that the universe is almost fractal and much like what we're creating when we're creating these artificial environments at the universe itself is made out of ones and zeros and then this whole thing is really mathematical and I just because we haven't been able to detect it up until now doesn't mean it hasn't been running on Sunshine

some sort of uber complicated mathematical principle and can we assess can we detect was actually running the laws of physics so it's it's a philosophical question thing the people do and I think we could bring it back to this platter thing is that people love to go down these honey holes of information in a debate and ideas and whether it's Bigfoot Are UFOs we love to chase ourselves chase her own tail when it comes to these bizarre subjects that most likely aren't real go to Chase and become like in Gross nice things and I wonder why we're doing I wonder if you're distracting ourselves

you know I mean it doesn't seem to be people that are fully happy with their their life that really get into this kind of stuff that really go all in and balls. You don't get a guy who has like of a promising career he's at the top of his field happy family great friends Great Hobbies loves his light and it just becomes your phone that doesn't seem to be the case you still don't have any signs the most of pool players want two things about what's that, expression about poolplayers if someone Plays Pool really well So Glorious results of a misspent youth because it takes a long time to learn how to play pool really well and you're not going to be doing that while you're you know who got your nose buried in physics books I think like people like things like the fact that they that they get things out of them they're getting something out of it as giving them to a person

it's like it's kind of like a hobby anyway like you just doing something cuz you enjoy doing it like playing chess along with that hobby of doing stuff they actually have a belief that is required for them to actually do that and they don't think of it like that but I don't have a centrally what it is they have this activity they like doing like gardening or whatever but it wasn't to believe that the Earth is flat so they spend time making YouTube videos about how the Earth is flat while doing their experiments about how the Earth is flat and that they're getting something out of it cuz it's a little thing except I'm actually doing it for science like I do these fun little experiments like on the on the plane today I was on the plane like wedged up against the window looking for this holding my camera up against it and I woman next to him so I thought I was just crazy guy you should have told me

bringing levels on the plane though I had looked at level isn't moving well if you work all day and you have an eight-hour day plus commute + family + whatever bills and issues that you have to deal with and then you get into one of these YouTube video so you simply brought them you simply don't have the time to really explore all of the possibilities and all the science behind all the arguments and it's just I think what I was either they yeah they did get the superficial understanding of the conspiracy theory that the actual real-life suffers a lot of people get sucked into conspiracy theories like Mike Cantrell's 911 truth and they become socially isolated become they divorced and they lose this isn't like that is outside of societal norms and they feel overwhelmed

compelling need to tell the people about it and they roll their eyes when I bring up the subject but from that point of view that trying to wake up other people they doing that doing like the Lord's work by giving the truth to people but then there's some like when you look into an operation Northwoods and you find out that the government really was planning false flag attacks I didn't work the first time for The Joint Chiefs of Staff it's got it but inside is it they wanted to do it but it was an idea the idea that you were going to attack American civilians that you were going to arm Cuban Friendly's in the tack want anima bad you're going to blow up a drone Airline of these were all pro

those things they were first things but it was just like you know but I understand what you're saying but spitballing that you're going to deceive the American people and kill American civilians and if this is a normal part of the way Nero burn Rome Hitler burn burn the reichstag that false flag attacks are real and they have happened throughout history so when you do have an open mind and you are compelled to try to seek the truth you got to be aware of these things have happened in history they are real and if you dismiss everything you'll be thought of as a shell as much as I mean as much as people who look for conspiracies and everything they're also people who try to dismiss everything and you have to be very careful because there are a lot of things that people do conspire to do like one of things that I brought up before and people hate when I talk about this phone to do it again people say I don't believe in conspiracy conspiracies and I see you don't believe in conspiracies no okay do you believe 9/11 happened

do believe that people flew planes into Jet Blue Jet planes into buildings will then you believe in conspiracies cuz someone conspire to do that and they did it they pulled it off a bunch of people got to decide they're going to attack plane in the Pentagon they flew two planes into the World Trade Center towers mean that really happened so that's a conspiracy and they pulled it off so when you debunk all these things that are absolutely false like Flat Earth and chemtrails and UFOs and all that jazz you got to be careful and not try to debunk everything people you know anything I just think I just filled the voice thing is a bit overblown I don't think it is at all what it was I think it speaks volumes about what the mindset of The Joint Chiefs of Staff were busy can wait on the others

what about what got us into Vietnam Gulf of Tonkin false flag attack nothing I think that's pretty much been agreed upon the third series of events that didn't happen to nights the there was reports of the boats being fired upon and it turns out there probably wasn't anything that is did they think there was something that and it was completely Invent A Tout a fait accompli used it as a pretext to to stop the Vietnam War but they just took advantage of it like the same way the bush took advantage of the 9/11 attacks before now is that a conspiracy

it's hard to say like what knowledge did Bush have all the 9/11 attacks beforehand we know we took advantage of it and we know that he had the administration back then took advantage of the Gulf of Tonkin reports we don't know for sure whether the Gulf of Tonkin reports with fabricated or how much they were fabricated of War actually happened on that night and but we do know that they were taken advantage of my whole point is that you have to be careful when you're a person who debunks things that are legitimately ridiculous that you have to take into consideration the possibility that people do conspire do things pretty high levels of government with Enron I mean this is an there's been a ton of conspiracies that turned out to be true what they say

that was where was hilarious when it was when Reagan was showing the first signs of Alzheimer's when he didn't remember you remember anything people like always lying and then turns out now he's actually a memory is really a rodent that mean he was an older man is in his late seventies of the time wasn't an article about Trump today that he doesn't believe in exercise cuz he believes that the body has a finite amount of energy in it and then when you exercise you use up that energy and that's why I so much energy cuz he doesn't exercise diet so like he has your sex while. And he likes to eat lunch meat so I have the fridge guy

never met the guy yeah it doesn't look healthy but you got a lot of energy man kind of amazing how much energy as he's not healthy know Alex isn't that healthy he's overweight right and he's he's younger than me like I was used to freak out that he's younger than me like he just goes hard Alex Goes hard all the time you know now takes a toll it's also I mean every fucking turn to take has a conspiracy behind it's the mind and if you only take so much pressure

to talk about my flight at sir sure what else you got there you got notes and stuff oh that's a good one thank you so fake footage cuz it's footage of skylight with people like me of the running around and running around in circles and zero gravity as long sequences of people doing so I can zero gravity and it's in a space that I could too big to fit in Eddie's any playing instead of being built so it couldn't be Phil filmed in a thing here whether do the vomit, it has to be something was actually scenes in movies where someone was moving a zero-gravity it was filmed in a plane that would literally be up to like 40,000 feet or whatever and then they would just literally

shoot down so that your kind of going faster down than gravity and you could float around and there is zero gravity here running around in circles trying to get three of them running and this the space that they're in there it is so big that it wouldn't fit in like 40 would even fit in the Beluga thing that they use for transporting back to Area 51 because there's some giant airplanes that they make at Area 51 to use to simulate zero

pretty amazing the space station International Space Station it flies over at regular intervals and this is not one of the ground truth things that I was talking about earlier you can look up when it's going to fly over you can get them to send you a list is a cycle Spot the Station NASA site but you have to trust issues but you can still sign up and it will tell you when the space station fly over to the second Italy to the second one is going to appear and I know how high will be and how long you'll be visible for and you can get to send you an email when I get your camera out and take photographs of it when it when it happens so you know that this website is correct. You've proven it on the ground and you can also like do it from different positions and get two people doing it and you can figure out how how high is the space station is by triangulation you see if you can figure out that the space station is actually 250 miles high it is actually what we sing the Earth. 250 Mi and you can also take us to the space station with this camera

and you can zoom in close enough on the space station tracks we see the shape of the space station in the solar panels in the main molecules and everything so you can see that actually is something that is moving along the same path for NASA says he's moving along and at the same speed as they suggest and it's of the right height and it's the right size cuz you can do the calculations on the counter figure out it won't the size of the space station is so we know that something that the exact same size and shape and speed of the space station is exactly why I Nesta size it is and this really no way you could think that on a flat Earth

cuz you have to have this bizarre me a thousand foot wide floating thing moving along at like fourteen thousand miles an hour doing this kind of wizzy passing all around this spirograph passing it around the Flat Earth it just it's literally impossible where is if you look at it from the globe model point of view is just the space station orbiting the bus does this bother you sometimes you're even debunking the stuff do you a duck say to myself that were not on the flash is that if you get three people you stand one of them of the bottom of South Africa one of them of the bottom of South America one of them in Australia and has a mole look south from that position on the Flat Earth you got one person to that one person to have one person here and if you don't look South like a way from the North Pole they're all looking in completely different directions

but on the real world what did he actually say they'll see the exact same constellation the Southern Cross right in front of them

so they're all looking in different directions on a flat Earth from the round earth they're all just looking towards the Southern Cross to do that and you can actually see this and take photographs of the constellations and compare yeah it's something I was talking about with the ground truth thing with stellarium like you can you could go virtually yourself to these places and see what the sky looks from that position

so either Solarium is lying all these near the Southern Cross this actually a pair of these three different positions that's another thing that these Flat Earth is Polaris 1 * 6 / another proof that the Earth was not spinning on a flat Earth what's so stupid about that is that people in Australia have a completely different constellations in the Stars rotate the other direction around and they're all coming to Walters from the East so I can look know if the guy in that way it looks out for the guy in that way so the right sightseeing around the North Star which actually isn't anything special it's just the stuff that happens to be closest to the point the North Point and changes all the time if you zoom in to see their stars that are even closer

if you take a time-lapse all the North Star. You make a little circle well and also that North Stars not the same Northstar as in the past yeah cuz the axis of the earth precession where they every 26,000 years and Wobbles Wobbles Volaris number of races when is not really fix this is one degree off from the center of the celestial sphere but if you look at a time lapse photograph of the earth if they Point camera up like slave from North America what you get is the illusion that all these stars are spinning around that one starts fixed but it's because you're looking at a time lapse of only a few hours where it's dark out at night where is this procession of the equinoxes is a very slow process that takes 26,000 years and you just not going to get a 26000 year time lapse photo of the earth you could simulate this

I was going to believe that the equinoxes thousands of years ago somehow that they kind of knew

you know a lot of old coaches did actually take records of stars cuz that's what used for navigation gives you the specifics North degree but the other stars as well like if you know you know how long it take to go from one place to another you don't really understand the exact mats but you can use it for navigation go Celestial navigation what are the ridiculous things can we point out before we wrap this up my head so I ate something about it at greasy Diner Polaris is a good thing because you can actually look at the angle of Polaris

was that a banging to hear banging

I have vein

I got you

Oats next door he is putting some on the wall sounds like

how to shut down the stream twice already Flat Earth god dammit

what are the things ridiculous the earth flat earthers wonder why they Earth's atmospheric research off into space about the one where that's a good one but myself I know now why why that is I know why it sucks everything away so I have to stay on the Earth in space was so I could wait but the thing is like vacuum doesn't actually suck the reason why things flowing to back here and he's a fracture and a fracture is the function of gravity pulling everything down towards the Earth so there's no no nothing they can push it out and say I was here I'm saying if you filled with lots and lots of gas

all the gas what kind of like gravity would bring it down to what was this planet will they don't believe in gravity didn't see the point one where they show that if the Earth was a globe that all the water be on the bottom bring it up Jamie this one's wonderful I think they're being serious yeah it's kind of like almost irrelevant cuz down right but it's electromagnetic something or other whatever else is making things for me to write Abba wealthy idea that all these rocks are pushing down and there's extreme function and he

explain to the bottom of this weird looking at this image folks it says gravity is not strong enough to stop a small stream from flowing to its lowest point then what is stopping the oceans north of the equator from emptying into the ocean south of the Equator this is what the Earth would look like if we lived on a globe gravity is pseudoscience... A theory that can't be proven that it if you got the apostrophe and can't you fucking done to me at all stupid Fox raining if you actually apply the laws of gravity to a flat Earth the Flat Earth would actually scrunch up into a bowl

hey what's up it would either be like gravity would be an intensely laws cuz you got anything about to rock underneath you it's like something on the back of a molten rocks and I just think it's brilliant because it heats up and becomes less dense than the other Rock why is it why is it down there in the bottom Liza Court the fires of Hell heating it up I tell you that's what is this tennis ball misinterpret angular velocity and linear velocity like the thousand miles an hour would fly off right but it's not flying off because of the surface of the ball going a thousand miles an hour is flying up because it's rotating 50 * 10 * II

is the angular velocity which creates the out with. Any of us something to do with it tell me when you're driving in a car driving fast Kona you get song over to one side so it's did the rate of your angular velocity now the Earth rotates once once every 24 hours so it's going to really really really slow put that back up please and if you take it and since I will once every 24 hours the water is not going to fly off and acting on the Earth rotates once every 24 hours around the edge gym upper left-hand side scroll up

Satan's Globe Earth lies this this bottom picture here is a great example of how ridiculous things by the big bang and evolution explain life you were an accident we evolved from primordial soup we are specks in the universe some people are more valuable than others foundation for the New World Order you are worthless next image God's Flat Earth creation is the only explanation we are incredibly valuable the Bible is 100% true we live on an unmoving Firm Foundation you were created by God in all caps God loves you. Seems better that image that is a good example of things that is completely ridiculous on the flat earth like you see they have a son on one side and eliminating haupia like that

play Closer to write act like a spotlight of the ice wall That's the white stuff into this projection take a photo that wall that sucks what is that that that's like 36,000 miles of cards in the ocean and width on a freezing ice wall is let you know the wall from was a Game of Thrones except 36,000 miles and then you can't it's illegal to fly over Antarctica based on like half a quart of Truth like you have to have a complex to engine jet over Antarctica

because it wouldn't engine fails you and we have to get to an airport so they only allow a four-engine Jets i747 to fly to see the guy over at the Antarctic Ice they're all 7 plus Evans how far you can go away from an airport and what configuration of playing that you have to do wonder how many people are listening this is turning their mind I think it's possible to think there's got to be a spectrum people believe this is Spectrum in some people will will be turned this will cause a lot of ruffled feathers are you ready for the shield tweets are you ready are round earth shill shirt would get you one. Com like

call me because like I'm always making stupid jokes and someone saw a photograph of me online wearing this t-shirt that said I make stuff up and he said that you're stupid yeah but it's pretty easy to dismiss they always say that you work for the government that's the big one you're a government employee you made video game to retire on and now I just push her around the house to God dang and do a deep funky stuff do fun experiments in the backyard at the slave away these assholes want to think that you're some government ship like the government's involvement Tony Hawk video games they recruited you I said listen I know you're doing a good job making his video games we got a better place for

do I need to do is cover up the Flat Earth and chemtrails and UFOs and what else what else you cover up more gallons Morgellons disease is a fascinating one that's one of the ones we interested that we investigated on that show and do you know that one of the guys aren't we interviewed was a doctor and what he thinks is that everyone who has more jelen's also has lyme disease and Lyme disease has a neurotoxicity effect and he was talkin self about his own hallucinations that he sees things like crawling across as I then it was aren't there is also saying that Lyme disease when you get from ticks that you're not just getting this one disease but you're getting a host of pathogens and sometimes these pathogens will interact with each other in three different ways and that you know some are more extreme summer less extreme but he's like you might be dealing with hundreds of different pathogens are there undiscovered or undefined and he thinks that what's going on

Pilates people that have Morgellons is Lyme disease and whatever these other diseases are that's causing them to hallucinate and think that fibers are growing out of their skin but really what it is is there scratching themselves and then they get like carpet fibers or clothing fibers on their skin and then they think it's coming out of there he was very reasonable and you made a ton of sense cuz we went to this more Jones convention we talked all these people that had it and they all have Lyme disease they all have it well they all they'll get tested positive for it cuz the test that you can do you can basically keep doing it and it's a kind of a very inexact test for Lyme disease or false positives there's a bunch of different tests but there's so many people in Lyme disease which is where it's interesting diseases it's I know a lot of people have gotten it from ticks and it's this a lot of controversy in the medical community has a mainstream opinion about whether those long-term effects from Lyme disease and then the people who think that there is

long term effects that this is some dispute clarified from people that I know that one of the things about the medical community is the ignorance of Lyme disease and that you go to a lot of different doctors and they they poo poo at they say I was nothing going to worry about my friend's son got it and he developed Bell palsy Bell's Palsy from his face went numb and that was when they took it seriously and they finally gave me this intense round of intravenous antibiotics but my friend was on antibiotics for months and he was devastated and we had a guy in here that had it for three years and he had it for a full year while he was undying Steven kotler it a full year was undiagnosed his body just was ravaged by the stuff I used to write a lot about Morgellons related to Lyme disease and some of the reasons I stopped doing it with such a personal thing for the people involved not just really wasn't comfortable like calling them Liars

play might not be like these bugs living under the skin cuz they just get very upset and you really he wasn't reaching a lot of them so I eventually I stopped it would be more reasonable people involved but this another one with people or initially invested in that idea and then once they become initially invested so hard to shake them off it's so hard they just are absolutely convinced of the government spraying thinks I have conversation with a friend of mine I was like Dad has got to be the most ineffective use of money ever had their spring things and what the fuck is changed nothing's changed the spending all this money spraying things in the sky that just happen to look like clouds but yeah we know that you can make clouds with a jet engine a certain amount of condensation in the atmosphere In the Heat of the jet engine causes clouds like we know that but they don't think that's what it is

for real long time and people just pick and choose which science they want to do use what keeps you going with all the stuff you spell experiments I do a lot of stuff like engagement backyard and testing things out like a lot of the stuff near the pictures if you if I was in things like that and you can you duplicate them cuz some of them I like my reflections of things in the camera and you can go out and say well this did this or people are saying that you shouldn't photograph is indication that it spoils of the Shadows go this way in the Moonlight Shadow play what do you think happened at Roswell UFO crash in Bloons that they were using to detect a Russian nuclear bombs in the atmosphere and it was a secret program so they would love to tell anybody about it so they came in to pick up the remains of the balloon and then the storage

static off

that's a funny one now boy that's that's made a whole town famous for UFOs if you go there now they have like alien themed gift shops in a milking it it's like to Delia let people make money out of something and then they get stuck into that soon enough because the making money out of it that motivates it to me to promote whatever it is Bigfoot or if it's aliens have you ever seen anything in all of your years of trying to debunk these things that made you question whether or not this was a legitimate phenomena those things that you can't explain there are things that I write inside but there was usually plausible explanations for them I like to like whenever I'm given something like a mysterious thing I like to list all the explanations that I can think off and maybe none of them a perfect fix the fish that you can guarantee this is what exclamation is but like it being like a ghost or an alien spacecraft as an explanation is usually pretty

might you start that saying I was too balloon or is a bud or it's a drone or it CGI or it's something something somebody faked afterwards or spacecraft between that and I always something else that we don't know what it is is there any evidence like in terms of UFOs that's interesting

I have to be honest I don't really looked into the the whole sphere of UFO ology I know a lot of people have to just looking at the quality of the the best cases that they put forward like I mentioned earlier like you know some guy 1964 like that is called beat up on a road these are like the top 10 best cases and you're looking to that guy which was he supposedly works at Area 51 became a whistleblower I haven't seen a lot of something you see

in the 9/11 Community is an in the chemtrail Community is people kind of becoming celebrities that guy was conventions and they speak and then they write books and then they start doing things and they they get sucked into that that the beliefs and it's been in the past of people who made claims like this and then eventually end up today in a plastic one really classic one is the coughing Leaf are is where these girls and causing the England sound I went to a famous thing fake these photographs of fairies and they they convinced a large number of people and including like Arthur Conan Doyle know the guy who wrote Sherlock Holmes

did Arthur Conan Doyle write a picture out of a magazine like basically on that Jack pads like 70 years later but they were they were milking it

because once they get into it is embarrassing to admit that you made something up plus she getting all this attention and in some cases getting money money changed their life and I started looking for fairies waste no time when I was growing up that was that was put out as being a genuine fairy sighting 1306

TNA reveals the first time letter which ended the cotton Lee cottingley fairy tale behind the ears of slaty capital I like that in the UFO Community who've like the Alexa does series how to become Toby so ridiculous and contradictory you know that they were lying is a wonderful one from the sky from the 1950s where it's at its great old black and white footage and they talked to him about his UFO experiences and all the different aliens to communicate with and he just seemed so obviously crazy and yet this was like Harold it is one of the most important cases of UF ology and you know you know the guy I'm talking about forget the gas now it's always up caps and shit the Montauk Chronicles

I wish you would today suck my tongue is like an island where they have an underground thing with a rumored to be experimenting on children Plum Island many medals do something like that this guy basically said he had all these remembered memories of working on the secret government face and he became like pretty famous you read lots of books but I think you might have been a bit crazy but there's a lot of that out there over there it look closely at things like it's really hard to do but if people are on the fence they they need to look very very closely at the claims that people are making letter claims the air today is making effective I say something like near the Horizon always Rises to eye level this is something you can actually check easy he got to be reasonably careful with this $2 level

are you going to check to see whether that is correct you can check for yourself if something reappears Over the Horizon when you zoom in which is something that he claims something that seems ridiculous play Let's be made for like over a hundred years that when things move away from you they disappear from the bottom up and if you zoom in they will reappear it doesn't actually happen when you zoom in on something on it does it make the picture bigger the Image Maker and you can check this for yourself you can go down to Santa Monica Pier you can focus on like the to know if you'll like Malibu and you can zoom in and you can see the picture does not change it all throughout the entire Zuma when you're fully zoomed in so you can see the cars whizzing whizzing along PCH you will see that the bottom part of the road is in the building that is up to go out and you can do it with Catalina you can turn around look at Catalina and you can zoom in on that and you can see that two-thirds of Catalina Island is missing a lot of what you're saying is very important because we were talking about it's just being able to

look at things objectively and use fax to determine that this one theory in particular Flat Earth theory is not true but I think what's really going on is a thought process there's a way the human mind gravitates towards these puzzles needs problems in these is undiscovered truths these these Mysteries that people just want to be the person that knows they want to be in the know and it's very intoxicating and that's what really this is the stuff's all about more than anything it's about the way the mind works until about the way your mind can be tricked and it's an information issue that we're dealing with today with things like YouTube or no one can stop you from making that you don't have to go through the people that work at NBC or fox or whatever you have to go through the Wall Street Journal of the New York Times editorial board where they have to review your paper and go hang you wrote a bunch of stuff is not true that doesn't have to happen anymore now you can just make a video and it can be really well done

good music and good images and the way it's done can really influence a lot of people who don't have a background in science or not curious about looking into the debunking version of it look like when someone sends me something I would say just Google that whatever you sent me and then debunked just do that first. D-box not sexy people attend off by the debunking really actually do some real research as in do some actual observations and experiments you know you watch a YouTube video about dinosaurs being fake that's fun and they're fake I can't believe they fucking got me just like watching YouTube video about Roswell rods or any of these silly things

not everyone. What's exciting it is exciting going to be totality in Oregon be able to see it from all of the lot of people going to go to Oregon just to see it as an excuse to try to schedule some sort of a dinner

and I saw the same complicated but let me to buy a real quick, maps maps maps projections know the standard math that you see in school rooms has this really stretched out Iceland or Greenland it looks like I just do it is not like the real world and the reason we use these Maps get a type of map is that if you draw a line between two points on the map and then you say all along I heading you will end up at that point

now this this is a type of navigation cold rhumbline navigation was being used for like yeah hundreds of years and the thing is that the map from Acadia map stretched out of the bottom because the navigate to from hundreds of years ago knew that the world was round and that they knew if they drew a line between two points in the southern hemisphere using the same that it would get you to that destination using rum navigation which is is basically just one more piece of evidence that's the actual of the globe map matches reality because people if you use rum navigation for hundreds of years if not thousands of years so you're saying that the image of the continents is in some way stretched out and distorted we will it affect global like just you can't just put it onto a flat surface cuz you got to do with it somehow so does various different ways people use of putting it on on the surface

just take yeah you like to do to longatude and just map it into a rectangle I was out fairly well that's not a nice thing that's cool to be rectangular map but the most common map that was used before lights I 30 years ago was this McKay to projection which is the the map that people use navigation shipwrecks so you can get from point A to B if you wanted to go from England to North America across the ocean you just draw a line between the two points and then you say what I said heading I've got to go into so you head off and not heading now that doesn't take you in a straight line

it actually takes you an account of a curved line

because if you could constant Compass heading on a globe you actually kind of curve in towards the poles or away from the poles have any which way a guy is this it is this method of navigation the people use that relies upon the Earth being a globe and it's really very simple map that has in thousands of hoe millions of homes and schools that everybody uses and you can see the on the map the lines get smaller if you want to talk when you get small as well as the bottom out of people attending Voyage around the world they're going to use this map and it only works on it works on the round the globe will that's another issue two people have circumnavigated the globe sale around the outside which bus would take a lot longer

it's nothing like that a stray Leah have you seen this trailer on the Flat Earth Map it's like it's like this looks like it's kind of like this is all stretched out it's like twice as long enough is why have you seen the theory conspiracy theory that Australia is Scooby-Doo I know I can see that it's joke Italy is a boot yeah they just one of those joke memes the distance is between places in Australia I don't work at the Flat Earth but that's not necessarily I'm just really looks nothing like that if you live in Australia even though it looks Nothing At All by that this is hilarious that there's so many versions of this Solaris this so many people who've taken the time in front of a computer to create this Flat Earth Map and put this ice wall and the idea that they know it's a nice ball like where where's the pictures as pictures of ice shelves

Bromley Antarctica Hangouts the wall memes like stuck on the end of a nice shelf which is a bunch of little kids are a bunch of dumb people or a bunch of people that have very little education or bunch of people that are also speaking preaching to the choir misconceptions that a natural like a funny thing like when I was in the video game industry there was a move around when you jump on a moving platform and then you will fall down sometimes you jump up and you move with the platform the alarm. It depends on what the program is it right now friend of mine was doing a video game and

so if you jump up and then jump down the platform should have moved out from underneath you so you should be out to like you should be able to this is the way we should program the physics and then my friend Matt said no that's wrong and it couldn't convince this other guy So eventually what happened you said right we're going to do is we're going to go out onto the road with my pick up my pickup truck I'm going to get in the back and you going to drive along a 30 miles an hour and I'm going to jump straight up in the air I'm going to see whether I land in the truck or land on the road so did this experiment the guy did a guy with the back of the truck because the truck with him because he's moving the same speed as the truck so he jumps off and then the lines back in the truck and the exact same misconception that the flat-earthers to because they say what was the Earth is moving so fast why can't you just go up in a helicopter hover a bitch wait for the earth to move underneath you and then go back down again

completely backwards physics cuz you already moving so you have to slow down to zero which is the same as speeding up a relatively speaking so my point is that anyone can make misconceptions about physics like that and it's easy to get sucked into the any sexy quite hard to break them he was convinced that Matt was going to fall out of the back of the truck

we die but he still ended a friend but I really want to thank you your website is very important people are curious and concerned and don't understand the physics in the logic in the science behind it all but I've I sent your site to many many people that believed or don't believe and we'll try to figure out a way to explain it so thank you thank you thank you very much that's it for the week thanks everybody for tune into the podcast thank you to caveman coffee for fueling us go to caveman coffee co.com use the code word Rogan and you will save 10% off any of their products thank you to upside upside the best way to buy business travel go to ups.com use my name Rogan and you will get at least a $100 Amazon gift card for free minimum purchase required see the web

for details we are also brought to you by Caspar fantastic premium mattresses for a fraction of the price and you can get $50 towards any mattress purchase by visiting kasper.com for Joe and using the promo code Joe at checkout terms and conditions apply we are also brought to you by the new audible.com series the rent is due by my friend Lewis Black hilarious stand-up comedian and you can hear the latest episode for free right now at audible.com Lewis Black sees me audible.com Lewis Black l e w i s b l a c k that's it

oh on it on it. Calm music Hardware drug and save 10% off any and all supplements that is its we are done good Lord thank the baby Jesus and everyone else at food poisoning today but seems a little low energy I'm a little out of it I haven't eaten anything and

20 hours no 21 hours yeah I threw up like crazy last night but it's a fairly minor as it comes to food poisoning so whatever next week got some killer podcast lined up for you folks next week is the big episode between Graham Hancock

Randall Carlson and Michael Shermer this is the one where Michael Shermer was actually he was actually skeptical about some of Randall's theories and grams theories and then decided to do some research got curious about it and said let's all instead of having a debate let's all examined all this information and you know I'll play Devil's Advocate or the the skeptic as it were cuz he is a professional skeptic so we're going to do that on Tuesday Steve-o's going to be here on Monday Everlast my friend from the House of Payne and his new band which I could not buy the fucking music I tried to buy their music on on iTunes what's the new band called in

I'm blanking to Jocko willink Returns on Thursday so got a lot of shit happening next week vote I'm pumped I hope you are to see you freaks in Dallas on Friday I'm very excited about that and I'll see you freaks at the ice house tonight ice house is sold out and Dallas there's less than a hundred tickets left so don't sleep see you soon

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