#1122 - Donnie Vincent

The Joe Rogan Experience #1122 - Donnie Vincent

May 29, 2018

Donnie Vincent is a biologist, explorer, conservationist, sportsman, and filmmaker. Links to some of his recent work is available at : https://www.donnievincent.com

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hey ladies and gentlemen how's everybody doing I'm going on the road got a lot of gigs coming up including next Wednesday was just went on sale but that's local s Icehouse in Pasadena We Do It shows all the time the latest one is next Wednesday June 6th at 10 p.m. other than that I'm all over the place I'm headed to let me see the list here I'm headed to Tucson Arizona Boise Idaho Temecula California first show sold out I'm going to add a second one Kansas City St Louis Vancouver and Calgary Calgary also has two shows first show sold out second show is on its way baby anyway lots of good shit going on

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today is a weird day today Roseanne got cancelled for making a racist tweet

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very strange since like

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this is weird just seems weird to read Brian Redban sent it to me and I read and I was like why the fuck man

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and I read that we compared some lady to Planet of the Apes you could do that if it's a white lady I think if you're a white lady maybe probably not even

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so I wrote the world just keeps getting weirder and weirder and people jumped all over me so you think it's weird that you got fired

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now I'm saying it's all week it's weird that shows on the air it's weird it's weird to see Roseanne again in 2018 is weird to see that is kicking ass it's weird to see that it's now cancelled

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is that she was doing really good like very high in the ratings

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Netflix we canceled it if they put it on Netflix I wonder if they would have canceled it for that same thing magic Netflix picks it up magic she says I'm sorry and Netflix goes we're cool with that

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what the fuck folks

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all I know is I like steak and where were sponsored by Omaha Steaks that's up for this podcast please in German Father's Day just around the corner I love Omaha Steaks me to tell you right now I've had them before even before it was ever a part of this podcast I bought them before and the fucking delicious and they just sent me a bunch of them and I'm going to eat the shit out of them they're very good they deliver hand-trimmed flash frozen and vacuum sealed beats directly to your door in an Omaha Steaks cooler they have all sorts of different meat pork poultry V lamp bison my favorite Seafood vegetables all the highest quality Cuts with one of a kind flavor all beef is usda-inspected for Quality Inn age for 21 days to unlock the full flavor and tenderness of the cuts

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it's fucking awesome you can use it at your convenience this is what you need to do go to stamps.com click on the microphone to the top of the homepage and type in JRE they will hook you up with a 4 week trial plus Postage and a digital scale you use a digital scale weigh your package print the postage put it on the package give it to the mail person and you fucking done set it's beautiful so go to stamps.com cook on that mic for the top of the homepage and type in JRE the stamps.com and Inter j e r e m I guess today is a man named Donnie Vincent I was turned onto his work by some friends that said if you want to see a guy who does amazing films on on the outdoors and on hunting this is the guy he has an incredibly well thought-out and creative approach to capturing

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the experience of Billet being in the wilderness in his his love for the wild the outdoors really comes through from from his work and Brilliant guy really love talking to him is a background in education wildlife biology and we had a great conversation and I hope you enjoy it please welcome Donnie Vincent

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The Joe Rogan Experience

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Vincent going on buddy you didn't know about floating at all you didn't know about float tanks even remotely until you came here if you got time after the show you can float do you want to do it I might have to do it just to say that I've done it I didn't know the science behind it other than obviously floating right would be you know just feels good just to meditate and just sit there in a quite like you know when you when you're a little kid you going to swing for something you put your ears just under the water you get that kinda yeah but everything just peaceful and you can just sit there and you can't hear your mother you can hear your girlfriend or whatever and it's just why I assume it's a lot like that is very telling you said to women my dad never talk to me and maybe I don't understand why the problem probably but I am trying to get floating spread across

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physically you relax cuz the the water has so much epsom salt in it and it's just really good for your muscles and good for sore you know anything sore muscles overworked it's great for that but it's also great in the environment are you in that tank with total darkness total Silence of light and then your ears are underwater and then I have to get some earplugs for gas so I don't mind having the the salt in my ears but some people get a little weirded out by the stop. You're like yeah I bought a big favor I did my memories fucked up dude what's wrong with me but the other thing is that it just gives you a long time in a way that you don't ever get when you're floating in there you're not thinking about your body not thinking about anything you just you just floating and then it just very peaceful just makes it

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real moment to consider things I've had made some of my best decisions in that thing I don't think I mean obviously we all know the rat race right now none of us I mean it's why I go to the mountains it's the same thing right now I'm sitting there in peace and my mind has been doing this for years were early on in and when I would when I go in the article early on when I go in the mountains or something I got everything was frantic like I had to do things really quickly I wanted to cover a lot of ground I wanted to do everything packing moving everything was so frantic and then when I started realizing that if I would just stop and slow down and look at the very tiniest details around me no matter where I was or who I was with but I started having a great appreciation of my presents so I'm sure something like that is just because of the darkness and because of the floating is just hyper-extended into that presence of you can trick yourself into thinking that nothing else is going on in your life

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we take this attitude that we have in the city when you're dealing with traffic and massive amounts of people and you sort of have that same momentum when you go into the mountains and if you do do that you not going to appreciate it the same way yeah I forgot to look around yeah I did that for a few years I would go I thought I had to accomplish something so I go to cite a and Hunt there then and I try to as horrible as the sentences to say I try to kill as fast as I could so I can get out of there and go to site B and sightseeing then I started realizing I actually had a friend of mine he's like man I think you're I think you're hunting too much I think they're going to catch up with you and you're going to the experience is going to start to degrade for you but is it was almost like I was trying to accomplish really fast goals and when I started slowing that down and send yeah I don't want to go to the Arctic for 7 days and try to knock all these things off my list in 7 days I want to go to the Arctic for 30 days and now that the Arctic come to me now I just want to say

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it's still and be quiet and not not chase the Arctic down but I want it just now. I wanted to come to me why I think people for the lot people who don't have any experience in the outdoors and certainly people who don't hunt don't understand it and their version of it they're getting either from movies or Hunters are always portrayed as villains or they're getting it from these outdoor TV shows which I don't think you could do a good job of representing what it actually is even a really good ones like a show which I think is the best show out there sure it's still 22 minutes with commercials and I just don't think that you get a real sense of what it's like what I think you did that's really interesting and one of the reasons why I wanted to have you on as you're doing films like you're doing an hour-long film about a hunt and in that you really get an understanding of the environment you take great shots or whoever your cameraman is great shots of being a fireman and close up son leaves floating down

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a river and you just get you get a real sense of it which is missing and it's it's still you're still getting a blink of multiple weeks and in the wilderness but you at least you get a feel like this is something very different than what's being portrayed this is like this intense almost spiritual experience in this very bizarre environment that surrounds civilization and we think of it you know it is weird terms but when you're out there in it it's very difficult to capture what that's like I think you've done an amazing job doing that here's Jamie's put some of your stuff up online here we get a chance to see it but and I appreciate that it's hunting it drives me nuts go ahead doing your your editing dial he's fantastic yeah he's really talented he does a really really good job of of just picking good shots and just the overall experience is real

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I need very well like you get a chance to see like oh this this is an adventure this isn't just as simple as you know someone's going out there trying to fill a freezer with Wild game meat now you're you're on an adventure and then the Wild game meat is a part of it yeah it's all that's a lot of shit going on in this was just piece right here was specifically done for Nat Geo because they have the National Geographic society which is the magazine and then I have National Geographic which is the TV show and so they wanted to do they hit me up for a bunch of TV shows he wanted me to let you know come and find Bigfoot they wanted me to its mother fucker they called me for everything they would call me and say I'm surely your skinning a beaver out right now and I said no no no I live in Wisconsin just out of Minneapolis and I'm walking my Labrador down the street in shorts and and and

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they said what they really want to do a TV show and they wanted it to encapsulate hunting to some degree but the society the magazine was against hunting the TV show what allow it so they wanted me to do no bullshit sermon if you will download looking down the barrel of the camera and just said this isn't going to go public this it doesn't have to be pretty it's not going to be added as well but just please tell us why you hunt try to explain it so that we can bring it to our producers and say meant like this is why he hunts and so I did this had my little temper tantrum there and dumb and in doing it realize like it made me really question you know I say okay so you want to know why I hunt and then it made me take a step back and say

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mantle of God I really don't even know I don't know why I hunt but I can explain some of the areas that doesn't explain why I'm a Hunter doesn't explain exactly why hunt but I can tell you I love the adventure I can tell you I love the really clean protein that I get for me and my family I can tell you that our ancestry unequivocally comes from 100% groups of hunters and gatherers it's around the world I can tell you all of these points I can tell you that I love seeing antlers of all sizes in and the hides and I can tell you I love watching grizzly bears eat blueberries and watching salmon come up a river to spawn I can tell you all of these things

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but I don't know if all of those things make me a hunter or if I'm just experiencing all those things because I am Hunter it's just very difficult to articulate it's very difficult to articulate how much you love something yet you're willing to engage in such a heavy way such a violent way that you're willing to step in kill it cut it up get your hands bloody because really that's what it is we love it so much that were willing to expose ourselves of the elements put ourselves in these places let the air or the bullet go watch an animal die which is never never an interesting thing to walk I say interesting but it's just not a pleasurable thing to watch what it this is how we engage is Hunters into these environments and so I was trying to convey that to

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Nat Geo and 7 minute peace and Kyle after you put it together like I think we should release it and I said hell no hell no I talked about Peeta in it I talk about being a vegetarian in it which I'm not against vegetarianism on pitas of joke but but he insisted so he can finally won the argument you know the idea behind ethical treatment of animals is amazing of course I hate animals animals was a lot of hunters that have dogs and cats but ethical treatment of animals is is imperative it's very important I mean we we are if we are really the stewards of nature if we really the top of the food chain we most certainly are and we're conscious and we have a conscience we absolutely should be ethical in our treatment of animals and take care of them and be kind of them

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which the problem with Peta is that's not really what they're about their the animal Liberation Organization that's what they really are what you are about they don't want any animals to be pets they don't want people to have pets like this is the mean that this is sounds radical but it's absolutely true in fact Peta euthanizes thousands of pets a year they kill pets and they kill them quickly they don't keep them alive very long and the idea being is that for the critics that the idea's been bad about as they don't want these animals to live and breed and stay pets they want animals to only be wild and that's fine but there's thousands and thousands of years of domesticated animals and if you want to let those animals loose it have them wild you have a whole another series problems less you want to kill all the golden retrievers and all the chihuahuas not that they're not going to survive in the wild

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like like a little fat kid is not a wild animal you there just as quickly there's a weird ideology that they're attached to that is it's it's it's not tenable it's not I can't argue it you know the idea of ethical treatment of animals I'm a hundred percent with the I hate the whole idea of captive orcas that to me is one of the big roles that freaks me the fuck out that we can take these alien creatures that are essentially as smart as us probably and put him in swimming pools and justify and that the only time I've ever killed people in recorded history is been in those swimming pools they don't kill people in the wild lynel everything else they kill whales they kill dolphins they kill sharks they don't fuck with people in fact it's been instances with a saved people and yet we've decided to put those so me and Pete

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penis retweeted bunch of shit that I put up before with sure really weird they retweeted a bunch of shit that I put up about you know about orcas and when I've done that people like you know your aunt's right and then then it gets you know radio silence I get my hate for you no work except that I had them one of the most I had some I've been fortunate to have remarkable engagements with wildlife in my life but two years ago in in VCI one of the killer whale it was it was wicked and to this day I regret not making the decision I'm about to tell you about but we had been I've been bear hunting on the coast and we're in a boat cruising back to the harbor and we found two PODS of killer whales three big bowls in a bunch of towels that were hunting and I'll be kept as they would come out there chasing salmon as they would come up will you just get closer just to film them or

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just to see them and then it go down and so I don't know if it was just happenstance of where we were but we came up we're just kind of waiting for the whole pod to come up and all son just 50 feet from the boat here comes the big huge dorsal fin of this bowl comes right at our boat bumps into our boat I'm standing on the in the Crowsnest essentially I'm on the roof of the looking at the same thing comes up bumps into our boat and he just Glides his left side all along the boat so his left pectoral fin is probably under our gunnel if you are under our Hall and so he's just dragging his Fin and he rotates on its side dragging his dorsal fin along our side exhales covering our director for tography Williams face in his spray and as he's doing this he goes He Hogs the bow of our boat and he never ever breaks eye contact with me he's staring at me out of his left eye

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play Rolling his eyes over and he just cruises all the way around the boat and I wanted to dive in and I just wasn't sure like I didn't want to be one of these you never said I didn't want to be the first guy to die and I just also didn't want to have like some sort of shallow water blackout because the water was so cold so I didn't want to dive in and have all the sudden like I didn't know how my body would react cuz I ain't been in the water yet and so I'm in the mall so I was like you know I'd watched Blackfish whatever that film is really killed a bunch of Folks At Me Now in in SeaWorld in NBC and saw just like well what if you know there's got to be at first you know what was never kill anyone any either and then you know some young lady went jogging and BC and son of a bitch we have number one well there's a long history will kill killing people that I'm just saying you know like you know in recorded time it was still is it was he maintain eye contact turned and then just continued on with the Haunted Hoochie

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cuz it happened really fast but yeah it was wicked absolutely Wicked I mean literally his nose Dorsal fins by 10 ft tall and it is just you know when you drag something against another in an object with Force you know it's finished if you know he was just very engage with the boat and 910 feet of crazy I guess it makes sense they're so big in the Dolphins in a while and I see whales in the wild I've never seen an orca yeah they're Wicked animals we don't even comprehend real in Bigfoot was real stupid monkey mean they speak in a language that we can't decipher we don't know what they're saying

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they they stand these pods for life they they they have this family organization and they all stay in their Clan the fucking incredible new scene using Blackfish obviously how much as I can watch I could watch the whole thing and I get angry and I've had you know I just I've had real problems with it for a long time and now my felt my friend Phil demurs he was a trainer at Marineland and he's been on the podcast many many times and he's involved these constant lawsuits with Marineland he was a walrus trainer and he also trained killer whales and you know he's giving us some real insight into the horrors of what it's like in Marineland and even in SeaWorld and what they're doing how they how they get these orcas in and how they're treated in and how bad it is for them to be trapped in these environments and how their Dorsal fins go with

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because they never have to deal with current Fe the whole thing is sick it's sit do they still have them now and it killer whales at SeaWorld now they still have them they can't buy new ones apparently or something like that was some weird aliens as slaves we just couldn't wear like what he saying that's basically what's going on it's gross Twisted you know and I just so that's where me and Peter we're on the same page I think anyone honestly anything with FX right if particularly animals of course Hunters are animal lovers you know we rescue dogs we rescue cats weed it's it actually goes out saying which is where the contention come from that's where the questions come from that site

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I get I get as many letters from non-hunters and from Neil people that think that they're against hunting or have maybe damning questions then I do from Hunters themselves letters from Hunters I'd say you're a badass or you really inspire me or you know I'm I'm really happy that I can have my kids watch your films like I don't let them watch hunting TV but when we sit down and they want to see something they wanted and just something that has hunting and you never watch your films and so I think that's really cool but I get a lot of questions from non-hunters and then people that have some contention with it I think there's a lot of people out there that are curious I mean 1995 or 90% 97% of the population eats meat and the percentage that actually kill that make themselves is incredibly small it's probably 1% sure you know I mean I don't know what it is might be a little bit higher than that but it's no more than 5 and there's a lot of people that are just

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on the fence and they said they're just sitting there going well I eat it but I don't kill it myself but I I somehow another angry that someone is doing it themselves like my before I ever thought about hunting my thoughts about Hunters wear that they were cruel people that like to kill animals why would you kill animals it's not necessary you can buy meat from a store this is the very shallow thinking that I had you know decades ago then you know as I started getting older and really considering what I do with my body and what kind of food I put in and then the internet was a big one because the internet came along and I started watching those videos that a lot of them that Peter puts up of factory farm at low and it's hard it's not just terrible it's it's like it doesn't make any sense it's like this is this is like human beings at the very worst like that we treated these things as like the most

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I mean not just as a commodity but we've ignored their feelings in their thoughts and their that the fact that they have instincts and needs and we stopped them at these tiny little cages it's a sickness let me see the cruel inhumane treatment that some of the people that work there you know what people that work in farms will tell you what this is very rare and these are isolated instances and this is terrible that's well and good but there's also a gag laws that prevent people from filming agricultural gag laws to prevent people from filming on these factory-farmed because they don't want people to know how horrific those conditions are so there's some truth to it mean maybe they're isolated instances maybe it's a small percentage of the farms at do treat their animals like that yet but it's significant enough that they're worried about the impact on the economy to the point where there passing laws that keep people from filming and showing people what it's like in his place and you can even just show people without any abuse just show what's going on just even a still photo of house

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living and you're not going to want to consume the food in these in the people that they eat they think that these animals were raised this way right there their cows that are bovines their big dumb animals they were bred for this who cares they have no idea what's going on until that Spike hits them or they get electrocuted to get their throats slit but if you have any wherewithal at all if you have any being any Soul at all and maybe this is the wrong

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idealization of the wrong picture and building my head but if you if you make yourself a cow just for a second if you remove yourself just for a freakin second and just say like is is this how I would want to be treated this how I would want to live is this is how I would want to die then you start to ask yourself some pretty big questions that are relatively easy to answer and we have a lot of people on the Earth right now and it's going to continue until something big happens but if you if you can remove yourself from your own Eagle in from your own comfort and try to visualize at all what these other animals are going to even animals your hunting it's going to make you better and in more cognizant of being at the colon and treating everything with absolute care even killing it I mean is I know it's silly I know if you really care about

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are wildernesses it's it's it's absolutely wild I mean public lands in particular the very well it's absolutely wild but it's also very weird because a lot of the funding for that Wildlife comes from people that buy hunting tags and hunting equipment in order to kill those animals animals are sustained and the way the wild lives are protected in the way that the wardens game Rangers or are paid is a lot of it is through the hunters who want to go out and kill the animal that live I so it's like a lot of people like wild sorta but it's also a sort it's protected by people that want to go in that whatever else you can go in there and chilling out now I want to protect these the first of all I want to protect the habitat so these Elkin Thrive and then in certain instances go in and remove a few animals are in certain incense

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it's like if you're in Alaska or something like that and hunting a stable Caribou herd you can go in and remove your not everything is based off of Soul management right as animals and quotes for people are we need to cut their numbers down because humans have taken up so much land but there are other populations that are trending in relative Harmony if they had big huge scales of Latimer not drilling for oil or whatever we can go and remove a few a few animals and their predator and prey scenario and it works just fine for the heard it works just fine for the population and actually in a very small way helps the population by removing certain animals from the age class or a sex class things like that but that's a difficult these were preserving the habitat so that we can go running in engage in the wild right I mean I think also a lot of people they think you buy your gun you buy your ball you buy your tag you go to Utah you leave an elk that is how it works for like 15% of the people if that but there's a

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contingent of 80% or 90% of people that buy their gunfighter pickup truck get their hotel room get there 10 hike 20 mi into the Wilderness strikeout listen to a lot of quiet look around hike out get back in the truck drive home send me an email saying where is it that you find elk around September 15th in Utah and so there's and still looking for engaging in still young there's all different people I just want to take photos and so everyone has their different engagement but that's really what it's about what we're trending towards 8 billion people on the face Tarrytown so well at large-scale Agriculture and farming and in an animal agriculture as well as created this environment where people can thrive in the cities yet not growing any food in California where we're at right now is one of the weirdest places on the planet Earth there's 20 million people knowing throwing anything but weed

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mean look around here at this the fuck it is no Farms out here man now I know it's it's it's completely where in the people that are a lot of these people that are riding a lot of these people are against this they're so hypocritical they're eating cheeseburgers why the typing I've been that person I've been that meat eating person thought that meant that Hunter so cool I get it I know where they're coming from and and I've considered vegetarianism at the end when I was fighting I was a vegan or vegetarian rather for I guess I was probably considered vegan I don't think I was eating a cheese and I wasn't drinking any milk but I did that for like 6 months didn't just didn't agree with me you know I mean maybe I didn't do it right and I never did it again but I was doing it to try to lose weight as when I was I was also not eating enough I was there was a lot going on there still trying to fight it a low way car

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but a lot of people do it and they do it well and it works for them they have to understand even that's not clean man the large-scale agriculture in terms of farming that shit kills a lot of animals displaces a lot of wildlife you're never supposed to have a thousand acres of soybeans or a thousand acres of corn or a thousand acres of wheat or anything anything all that shit is fake all that shit is something someone's put there and when they're using pesticides that killing things when they using those combines they are grinding up bunnies and fucking rats and mice and killing count was bugs to the idea that you're getting away without killing any sentient life is bullshit and even look at the corner of the Mississippi River right used to be solid wetlands and are wetlands is how we recycle water tell that stinky biomass that you smell that's that's clean water being made that's debtor does materially being it being processed Mississippi River used to be completely lined with these

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Farmers have one in an in an obviously it's not the farmers fault this is just as soon as we started agriculture 13 14 15 thousand years ago the stopwatch was hit we went One Direction you cannot go away we are hunters and gatherers we can only raise so many children we had to move with the food we had to move away from our excrement we we had to keep a small population but the second we figured out how to grow corn and rice and stay in one place and raise more than one child and now we're close to our excrement literally the stopwatch to something that is going to be a fantastic event has started I don't know if I'm going to see it I know if you're going to see it but something wicked is coming and there's no other way to look around there's there there's any way something by overpopulation population says something will happen

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there's nothing amazing about us we we we can fly to the moon we can do all this great stuff by the way I loved your discussion with your flat earther guy that was freaking amazing and the other guy that thinks if you eat the perfect amount of food you won't poop or pee all that guy that's silly fuck California Remains the leading US state for cash Farm receipts they can stay with if you go outside of LA California from LA and you go to Fresno arms like all the way up to San Francisco nothing but yes it's a lot of almond farming like tomatoes avocados but you look at it so we've got rid of our wetlands and now where are soils are sawdust there's nothing in them anymore so we pump in the nitrogen we pump in the phosphorus the Rings to stand that you when you use when you grow vegetables on a plot of land over and over and over again you deplete the

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yeah because you're not letting anything die there right you are pulling from the earth your hardest thing to plant nothing is dying nothing is returning back to the Earth is so you're so then the next year you don't have that Dad for this material creating all the goodies in the soils the bugs that the micro G don't have these are funguses you don't have the symbiotic relationships that are working with all these insects so that that create your soil to be a living system we've as as we push all that into the plant and harvest it we just keep doing that repeatedly while there's less and less of this biomass in the soil so we have to then go in and fertilize with nitrogen and phosphorus to give our plants nitrogen fixation things like this to grow these plans then we Harvest them then rains, there's a Roshan all the soil so we lose some of our top soils which brings us down to even more other different levels of soil do I need even more chemicals brought into them so they can actually grow something but all these

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oils that are heavily Laden with with matching Foster Mississippi River people know about this I'm not saying anything that isn't has been extremely well document in and pushes down to the Gulf of Mexico the sunlight hits it all of this out I'll go balloons happen all this algae hits this nitrogen phosphorus and grows it just like it grows a corn stalk the the sunlight hits it it it it had this huge balloons that needs oxygen to function so it creates these huge hypoxic zones right you've heard these things called Dead zones fish can't live in them and so anyone that hangs their hat on being a vegetarian or and I know there's reasons for being a vegetarian I know there's people that refuse to it. They don't want to kill the animal themselves and and and they're not going to buy from a factory farm I probably have more in common

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with vegetarian people that that don't want to kill their own animals and and aren't willing to eat Factory grown food then I have with some of my hunter other hunters and I also you know I'm so focused on conservation and and a habitat and being aware and it's not then it's not ever present but I have this awareness of when I go and Hunt some place that

► 00:39:06

you know am I am I actually doing something good here am I at you know I want a few years ago to Newfoundland on Woodland Caribou in the population was really down and so I got a got invited to go there in and search are looking into it because the population of songs like man should I read and really be doing this tonight through my research I found out this population of caribou is really sick like and as they fall really low that they strive it's it's one of the best times for the caribou and actually when their populations already huge boom they do the worst and so I wanted to the habitat resource just starts to be over late and then I have another another Boston so I'm so I went and did it but there's there's a constant yin and yang and in as a hunter as a vegetarian even if you want to clean veganism all of these things we should be asking ourselves big questions this whole thing that everything lives here in a gray area there is no black and white I'm not against vegetarian

► 00:40:07

not against vegans have a vegan comes up to me and says how in the hell can you kill an animal and wear leather shoes I say that's a really good point I'd let me ask myself cuz I might have to sit down in a quiet float tank and think about myself like I should be asking myself some of these big questions at and as it should they I just think there's a lot of information that we should

► 00:40:27

keep asking ourselves keep asking ourselves because if the population of human beings continuous exponentially which it will until this major event than I thought. Everyone thinks is coming

► 00:40:40

Hunters should almost be the first ones to give up hunting if it Trends towards that someday if it gets to be there's not enough Wildlife or wildlands or something fantastic happens like Hunter should be the first ones they should be on the front line of being aware of the habitat in the resources and say hey you know what we need to back off and and I've seen it before it's actually really cool few years ago this is a micro instance but a few years ago not actually if you was going to say as long time ago 1991 a huge blizzard hit in Wisconsin on Halloween day and the Wisconsin deer hunters Association shut down Whitetail hunting overnight said there is no deer hunting this year it's cancelled it's done there's no legal deer hunting this year and then all of these deer hunters were taking their tractors out on these public lands and on their private land and plowing areas for the deer to walk around in the deer move around in so

► 00:41:41

there's all sorts of instances about it but you get what I'm saying I think we have to keep asking ourselves these questions as we as we move through our time and space I think it's real important what you said about you know what you're simply saying is that people then this is always been my problem with people that proselytizer people that are that are really into Proclaim if they have the moral High Ground because they eat only vegetables that High Ground is filled with holes you going to step in one of those holes if you keep talking yeah cuz the more Angry you get it people that hunt in the more Angry to get the people to eat meat you have to understand it if you're eating vegetables just by fact that you're buying them from a factory farm you're buying them from large-scale agriculture you're absolutely responsible for death and the death of fish at the I'm glad you brought that up because those dead zones in the ocean that is that's a gigantic problem it's a gigantic problem and it's it's problem it's caused in large part by Larks large-scale agriculture as you said

► 00:42:41

I think that one of these problems going to be solved by Factory created me the problem is how many other problems are going to be created by that I don't even like like on a soy or on oh no no no there there making me in Laboratories laboratory created meet and there with her I don't know what's the process of cellular bass like what's the first thing that they put on the Patriot essentially there cloning beef and all these different things in the idea able to do this without anything dying

► 00:43:16

if I so if you think of you think our population. If you think are human growth is exponential now now week now we can get rid of the land now we don't need the land now there's no value for wild places no value even for Farms now we can get rid of all of that and billionaires you know billionaires off that love money and sold billionaires will go by the landlord get the farms and will get all the wild places out and they'll build even more houses cuz you can eat some beige colored or laboratory design me and we can get even

► 00:43:53

take me to thinking about it that way but so I just invented something like it's like the idea of they like they are going to do this to us and Wildlife and wildlands are protected there's federal land and you can't really build factory farm meat houses on those places but now I see what you're saying but there's also the real problem was like what what there's no snow free ride like what happens when you make that meat like what it what's that Masky what's the first thing in the right and what's the cost of doing this also is there some sort of a side effect to eating that meat is it doesn't have negative health effects as it did have a negative environmental of fact just what is is there any sort of like waste product that's created by by creating this meet I don't know these are all questions that have to be answered none of it's clean now this is what the what's really important like when you run an arrow through a bull elk and that thing runs 20

► 00:44:55

cards and falls down and dies there's this weird feeling that you're so weird feeling of loss that goes along with this weird feeling of Happiness you're successful it's does not there's no like 1 or 0 it's not a binary experience if it's not clean it's like life itself life eats life and if you want to claim the moral High Ground because you're vegetarian or if you want to claim the moral High Ground because you're a hunter I think it's think you're missing the big picture it did there is all this weirdness to life and that they're there is this thing that we do that we consume and that every other animal does as well that's the thing that always strikes me as being strange is the people have a real hard time with people eating predators are people hunting predator hunting is one of the number one most sure-fire ways to get people angry at you online yet

► 00:45:55

and it's this a lot of ignorance attached to a particular with black bears which are responsible for literally killing 50% of all the Moose calves and all the the deer fawns and Elk calves 50% of them get whacked by by black they're very successful at calving season like a bloodhound is thousands of times stronger sent oh well then a d or than us and then a black bear measurably above that measure be above it so they can smell like the way I was like you know how you smell skunk like if you driving your car for blocks a black bear can do that with your foot odor yes yeah literally can smell you can smell the mustard on a hamburger and pick it out from the beef and the pickles it's it's even better than that because some biologists are surmising that they actually can tell time with her nose so when they walk in

► 00:46:54

you and I are driving on the road we all my God don't you smell that skunk well he's sitting there as he strolls to the neighborhood he's gone ah my goddess skunk was hit by a car this morning but yesterday a little fat kid threw a cheeseburger out of the window here in 2 days ago a woman with really strong perfume walk down the sidewalk with a poodle so they're literally there's so many layers to what they're taking in and everything has its essential like different strengths because of how long it's been present in the area that they can almost kind of read a book as a strong through their environment and so it's like how powerful their noses are in that they're picking up so much information that they're picking up old information current information brand new information and I mean if you think about that all of that information coming in their head in an instant every instant every time they breathe in so that I think scientists are probably making a summation that these Bears have two processes informations are going through cuz otherwise they run scared all all

► 00:47:55

play it right simcredible they're incredible animals and that but it's interesting how I have this thing where I've hunted with several hunting guide several bear hunting guys were I've convinced they've never eaten there meet some of these guys that are guys like they sending me all of their clients were they get ever they donate it but I said if you guys are eating their me I you know I didn't mean to Bear is here than the other worms in their me know they're fat is yellow on their do you know not to say that you're full of crap and so I did on two years ago with a very dear friend of mine I won't mention his name should be mortified as he should be but I said hey let's eat some bears and it went when I get there and we kill a bear and he's like what it what if you don't kill the bear I said I'll tell you what he had to Bear hunts before me I said please he he kills very old bears and I said please save the rattiest bear that you kill for us the oldest

► 00:48:54

nastiest looking bore please save this ass the Archer or the hunter if we can steal one of his hind quarters and he did any lettuce and when we got there he pulled it out of the trash bag in trash bag in there in the cooler I pulled out of the trash bag and that the fat was yellow and it looked horrible and he told me that it when he was skinny Eddie actually saw some worms underneath the you know the hide that I always have one yeah yeah it's a constant and so why so we made it that night along with some big horn sheep and which is fantastic eating and all of the big horn at several piece of the Bighorn the last the bear was long gone it was absolutely amazing and we did it two ways one one day or one way we did it because we're kind of having a dinner party at a cabin and so we may just these little tiny medallions and is really funny to his is reaction so then we just pan-seared it with butter and garlic and onions and just ate it like

► 00:49:54

whatever chicken McNuggets if you will and he ate that he's like why I mean you can find anything with butter and onions and garlic is going to taste good I'm like to hear yourself so it I mean it's going up to a chef me like you made me cod fish but use dill and mayonnaise and yeah your little you're a liar you know and then sell it so then that night we made it big roast and we see heard it all sides right and season it all up make an ice Robin put in this broth with vegetables everything and hate that and of course he's like well I mean you made a Rob and you see it on my wall if you suck at cooking it's not the Bears fault it's delicious I'm not telling you to eat a raw off his skeleton the moment you're skinny and but if you take the time to prepare the flash when you when you're in the field and then cook it well it's amazing it's right up there with everything with his internal biases biases and he's just had them and held onto him he ever and especially if you're skinny something you see worms and get grossed out and you already think it's weird

► 00:50:53

Barbera that he shot and killed and was cooking on a friend smoker and he told the friend because man he goes you got to clean that fucking smoke around the guys like we talked about it goes man smoker smell like fish because I never cook the fish on that smoker ever like what are you talking about and he's realizing that the bear that he killed I just been eating nothing but fish yeah and he said that when he was eating it was like eating smoked fish say it was really good yeah buddy but it was this weird taste because it was like you're eating is red meat that tastes like smoked fish they're awesome they're awesome that most incredible me on the planet Earth in fact I got dropped off four five six years ago I was in the Artic 4:30 or so days in the pilot drops off NEOS hey do you have a bear tag in a city I have a great time he's like if you kill a very selective tons of where I'm dropping you off

► 00:51:53

tons of black bears which is uncommon but I mean like if you kill a black bear he's like and you don't want them I'll take it you know he made it very clear before even drop softness and now won't we will keep it but will share with you for sure. My share some with you but phenomenal was telling me that it's the literally the greatest meet on earth like when you have a bad it's been eating nothing but blueberries and he did a an episode of meateater Once were shot one in as he's hoping to get up you see purple fat because the Bears been eating blueberries for so long they're fat is purple and made me think about my own diet quite honestly because of this thing taste so good and smell so good because of what it's eating like if you're eating like fucking cheeseburgers and fries like that's got to be in your fat that's got all that bullshit food no fucking Donuts that's got to be in your cells but you literally are what you eat we know it but do you internalize it I think when you see a bear that has purple fat maybe you internalize it even more I think so

► 00:52:54

yeah I mean anytime you're able to spend

► 00:52:57

you don't you know you're dismantling an animal or something I got you actually get to see these things and yeah if you have the same perspective or wear with all that we were talking about a few minutes ago that's when you sit there and wait a minute you're not just mindlessly skinning this bear your Center going is my fat look like Skittles cuz I found a bag of Skittles yesterday rotten moose I've heard of you. If you eat a bear that's pretty and rotten meat that it's pretty fucking gross and yeah it was eating a rotten whale and the whale was like where was like orange orange and yellow they do that right like it dies like living in the crawl right up inside of its rib cage and they come out looking like they sound too much hair gel and just everything that's so far

► 00:53:55

how do you cook it the same same way actually I did more medallions that way because I was backpacking so I ate it right on the beach when you talk about beer honey you really you're going up against years of movies you know years of of fucking Yogi and Boo-Boo and and people have this weird perception of what a bear is and we are the only things that keep their population and check the only things if you care about deer and if you care about moose and if you care about other Wildlife Predator control is the it's a real problem they're one of the most ethical animals

► 00:54:34

there are a lot of them there a n n u have to like you have to be careful though right I mean they need to be controlled in certain areas certain areas was probably a decent balance cuz there's not a lot of there's a lot of food so they might not be focusing on moose calves rights or might not be a lot of moose or something. But in areas where there's great overlap like it's definitely there they don't get killed a lot right and so people don't hunt them a lot in general in in in in people just you know that they instantly go to the ungulate write Ansley go to the deer in the moose and Caribou things like that but yeah that's definitely need to be managed the place I hunted I was bear hunting last week in DC and a place I was hunting hasn't really been hunted in like 10 years and you just know that these bears are so terribly successful at stealing mule deer fawns and moose cabs in this area and and and I've seen it before you just see them like I killed a grizzly bear a few years ago

► 00:55:36

I was I should say I killed it it charged us and so the guy that I was with had to shoot it and so he killed it but as soon as the bullet hit the bear he pooped out to two cow moose calves and we have weeds we'd seen a cow with two calves to Twins and then he was just cruising Up and Down the River and so he he definitely got them and then we killed them heat and then I wasn't even really thinking much about it just didn't have this wherewithal of what was going on and it was kind of intense situation when it went down but later on we were talking the biologist about it when we were having the bear skull and hide and meet sealed and and we told that he pooped out a captain's I got a fantastic because there are grizzly bears and black bears that are really successful Fawn and calf killers and then there are others that aren't right there they're kind of individualistic like we aren't it's always like it's really good that you remove this big old boy who is a successful cap killer

► 00:56:35

that he would just fixate on that in the spring and really it does not take like a lot of people might think all their feelings and move something other. There aren't and you go off in these areas like people ask me all the time and wrap in Alaska that like when you get off the airplane is got to be just animals everywhere no there are no animals you got off the airplane in the Arctic and you take a look around there's nothing that you have to go into the trees moose is no curb you like you find them when you go looking for then you find them when you find this little Micronesia of habitat but by and large there's nothing there because there's no it's not a ton of resources are in so like I think people think you eat you know there's it's the Serengeti and it and it's not and so if you have a successful Grizzly and he's praying on moose in a particular Valley

► 00:57:22

you can really do some damage and where I was at and I just wanted Mountain line for the first time in DC this winter and I was talking the biologist there cuz I great contention about doing it and I don't want to run with dogs I don't want to shoot out of a debate in a tree I just had never interested me and so a buddy of mine just got his first hunting concession in BC's been a guy does whole life but he now has his own concession he has blackberries and mule deers the guy that I was also just bear hunting with but he said hey will you come up and do a line on my side now man it's not for me and he's like

► 00:57:58

you know you're kind of being a hypocrite right now and I said what do you mean he's like we always preaching that people should ask themselves big questions and people should try to dive into know this tornado or the storming and experience things and ask themselves in like actually challenge their thought process so who better to come up and go on a lion hunt and if you have Prejudice about it won't you come up and do in so you can see if your Prejudice are real or or not so I did it and it was very eye-opening it was an incredible experience opening about it just the animals themselves you know is it was the enthusiasm around the sounds like I kind of picture disunited meow Fox noun scenario built up in my head you know that I felt for the same same stereotypes that non-hunters in a town or falling for outside sounds better kind of redneck and

► 00:58:49

you know they're there they treat their dogs like crap in there and they're sending their dogs into this line fight and it's it's going to get robbed these dogs are going to get beat up and scarred off and then finally you treat us lion and in the hunter comes Waltzing in with no no barrier of Entry whatsoever no physical suffering whatsoever no mental suffering what so ever come to Waltzing and it shoots to sing out of a tree and take some photos and then the Skins without leaves the Flash and move on with your life and so I go up there and meet the houndsmen and in first of all my friend is named Ben store I can be very gracious Hunter is very aware he's very kind of animals he's has tremendous wherewithal which is why we continue to hunt together but he also go up there and meet his houndsmen great guy his hounds are part of the family sleep in the cabin with them great dog food great medical care every single night when we get home in the snare on which I killed a line was also very

► 00:59:50

warning for me as a person we tracked him I'll use kilometers cuz that's what we're doing there but we tracking flight 2122 km just by his track and it was really cool because this lion had tore his back right track so it's kind of like a movie we see his tracks in the snow and there's always a dime-sized spot of blood in his track is pretty cool cuz we went and spoke with some ranch as long as Riven or like yeah he's he's sport killing deer which I didn't believe but I just wanted to hear the Rancher's kind of summation on and they didn't want him the ranchers were I was really surprised with the Rancher like you know we want you to kill this cat because he sport killing his dear but we want them to be very measured in how he takes cats cuz they really love cats in this area and they just want them to be cognizant of the animals he removes what she is anyway but they love cats just because they just love the idea of them

► 01:00:46

cattle and they watch The Wolves harass their cattle but they watch the cats will literally walk right through a calf pain and the Cavs won't spend any they don't even look at the lion the Cowboys aren't looking at the Lines line with a stroll right to the pan and just carry on about his day because he wants to kill a deer and Sheet that's that's what he wants to fix a Tawny just want to deal probably with Momma cow but Brian sweet tractor sing for 22 km we actually got down on it on top of the mule deer kill it and it made the night before bumped it and it ran way up in the mountains in these and these Hills we tracked all the way out there for 5 km and then that's when we release the hounds and it was waked to see the enthusiasm in the hounds like I just pictured something that was going to be blood thirsty and like you know

► 01:01:40

they wanted to rip this kind of properties Highlands at the look on their faces and I'm making you know I'm making judgments here but the look on their faces were just pure enthusiasm like this is a game like our job is the is the chase this cat down in the tree was just really cool to be around the dogs and washer energy in the line We snuck in on the line and he he he didn't like it and see if he jumped off and in the dogs and sued push it again and then we treat him again and I killed him and killing him was

► 01:02:21

neither here nor there it wasn't it was just an act it was just a light switch for me it was Ben needs Bennett spoke with the biologist they wanted a certain amount of cats removed from this area cuz they're really having a predatory impact on the ship in the in the deer and I kind of found out why afterwards when I spoke to biologists but I'm we got him at 3 and then just like his big Tom and he's an old Tom and so we're going to kill him anyway so if you want to kill him kill him if not we're going to kill you know Dad tags to everything was legal and I said no I want to take the process all the way through so I can let me die very quickly and I always heard that their meat was really good and I'd also heard people say it's on the edible so of course I don't kill anything unless I'm going to eat it so we ate and it was arguably the finest me I've ever had in my life I was told me he said it taste like

► 01:03:20

I got to like pork butt is Neil pork is okay Mom line is like succulent flavorful deep rich pork it's just absolutely unbelievable fat supposed to be really good as well yeah absolutely and and also it's just really rewarding experience for me in like that I got to hang out the dogs afterwards as well he kind of guess the cat to be like 5 or 6 years old which should be very old it turn out to be three and which is amazing that they go from me kitten to this thing was like a hundred seventy five hundred 80 lb. Big in just 3 years and and a biologist even told me he had one come in earlier that year that was over 200 is like 202 203 which is about as big as they get and it was radio-collared and he's like all this is going to be Wicked cuz we have the radio caller I'm going to be able to call the biologist that radio call heard the saying it's 200 pounds of sing it's got to be like 5 or 6 7 years old he called the guy in the thing was

► 01:04:22

I'm just at barely leaves like just over 2 years old he's already 200 lb 2 years old yes and they're just saw an end with you know like sometimes aging deer raging Bears is kind of a tricky Prospect you looking at the molar wearing your looking at their lateral incisors and medial incisors new looking at where and everything with the Lions it's very easy to see like they have

► 01:04:48

the age classes have distinct Dental changes that happened like it's it's there's there's kind of no middle ground and so you know and of course the radio collar the new but they're just so terribly successful and just looking at the amount of biomass I put on their body just their size and how they carry a fucking for a human thigh-bone missings going to go potty he's going to learn skin skin on body so much shorter the meet you don't goes all the way down to their paws so I can jump you know 30 feet out of a tree and land and just like you and I would be rolling around a ground going oh my golly my femur and he's got to just go boom and they're Off to the Races and it's just you know you drop it drop a deer out of a tree and it's going to have for broken legs leasing Just Landing

► 01:05:46

ovulation freaky animals and so and so I was going to say so the sport killing so the bile just told me where the area where where there's a lot of wolves and so the Wolves the lines are so much more successful at killing the Wolves by the Wolves just become somewhat lazy and we'll get a nice little packs in the little e find a big Tom and we'll just follow him and so with this cat is doing is scientist have observed him killing deer and he'll literally kill and cash deer and sheep so that when the Wolves find his Cash's the Wolves will eat and so then he can he can go and eat in it on in peace himself in the fuck with by the Wolves leaving them food he's leaving them food which is why the ranchers thought just kill the deer today he brought us to nine kill sites that day wow so he's literally doing that while you're chasing I'm saying look just eat this leave me the fuck alone so as

► 01:06:46

is your tracking him he's tracking you pass spots hoping that you take his cash and leave him alone while just also told me and I was like

► 01:07:00

I had a lot of contention won't come in here and hunting lions and you know I don't know how successful they are repopulating me. We almost wanted them to Extinction at the turn of the century and they're just starting to kind of make their starting to expand now back into their some of the original territories but he's like hey men Donnie's like this is a great animal to take this is an area that receives very little line hunting we have to take some of these lines on he showed me date at that they had on this one lying and I don't want to miss quote the date of a basically the single line how to remove like 9 or 11% of this particular sheep herd in a year

► 01:07:34

just like boom boom boom and this dude new the game in newer to kill he knew how to kill and eat they have no chance I mean that he's going to kill them the other runs faster and stronger and if he gets a hold of me never say never lose a deer gets away now they they they win every time I know it's right on the same path is all the Predators it's Danny. He just needs a really good discussion but people get upset when you kill Predator get very upset with it's really strange because they don't have any problem with the predator and they have less problem with people killing deer but they have a real problem people killing predators and I believe it's the same problem we have is like Cecil the lion and shit like that they think that you're just doing it to be an asshole when you just want this thing on your wall and a head on your wall I do have some contention you tell me and like

► 01:08:30

issue being shut down and BC grizzly bear hunting maybe you can explain that for me I will don't understand what's going on with the government that British Columbia government shutdown British Columbia British Columbia grizzly bear hunting because they equate it and I guess you're probably correct with trophy hunting rights were Hunters were killing these animals and just taking the skulls and hides and leaving the flesh behind and I don't know I've never have I ever hunted NBC once but I was actually more in a sheep on but yeah just this notion of like like the gentleman that killed Cecil the lion like if you're really going to kill an animal

► 01:09:15

and I just take its hide that I pretty significant issue with that and so like I I just hope these Hunters that the guys are hunting the grizzly bears I just I wonder if this was more of a hunter

► 01:09:28

instilled issue then then people are even bringing light into it cuz if if people were killing grizzly bears in British Columbia taking their hides taking their skulls and taking all the flash I feel like we'd still be grizzly bear hunting in British Columbia I don't know I mean maybe maybe but grizzly bears are another notch up even above black bears in terms of like crack rinella calls charismatic megafauna people love those things I want you don't have to deal with some you know what days they are amazing to look at and we all want them around it works there an incredible animal but it's this thing of trophy hunting these will you think of some fat lazy-ass holorifle that stands on top of a lion you know if there's gives his image that I found online and I was looking at was like that is that's why people have a problem

► 01:10:29

this fat fuck who should never in a million years without that rifle had have ever the help yeah or the help especially to help write like there's no way he would have got on it as nobody who got to that position he must have got there in a car you know and then they have this line there and he's perched up on the line like he did some amazing thing my me while that's probably one of those cage lines anyway hit it mean yeah they have so many of those high fence hunts where they let these lines they have them all caged up and they throw cows over the dead cows over the pain over the wall the pan the lines tear apart and then they pick one and take that one out into the Wilderness Area it's all fenced in anyway and then they let it loose and then the lion stays in the area cuz it has no idea what is boundary is what territory is what what other lines were in that area so a lot of times they sit still and they wait for a while for the figure out what their territory

► 01:11:29

the hunter comes in shoots it stands on it takes a picture of me you just shot a pea if you told me you said hey man I went into the wildest part and back packed in and set up camp and I was there for 40 days and you know I killed killed 1/8 Planes game and I I worked with locals and and you know different rides on a pride of lions and there was a giant the mail and there's another sister did we kill them you know we scared them out we took his Flash and we went on an honest Huntley Engage The Wild here and we removed an animal

► 01:12:15

Wicked I would love to read that book I'd love to see that film I'd love to hear you tell me that story it's anybody eat lions why moms that's what I'm saying man Africa and if and if you're not

► 01:12:31

the more we do not understand killing is this weirdness are too cuz if you told me you called me and said hey man I'm going to pay you a million dollars I want you to come down to my concession I get these offers daily not a million dollars but if it if you come down will you come down on my concession and shoot a giraffe I'm just making this up but I'm trying to pick a zoo animal will you come down and shoot a giraffe I'd love to see you come down and fill in this by blonde and you know the answer is no buy a large areas that are most the time fenced in and out a lot of thousands and thousands maybe even tens of thousands of Acres like you're never going to see the fence we could drive you around in there for a week and you never see the signs that my wild thing is very weird right because like their habitat with the fence essentially keep people out

► 01:13:29

the Trap the animals all the animals can't leave its to keep the poachers out to preserve these areas because people with greed will take the kill anything to get a few dollars in the marketplace for for market meat and then certainly to sell a hide to maybe even an even more fat hunter that or person that calls himself a hunter that wants a lion on their wall that doesn't even want to engage in the process right there by the skin or something that's why there's trade entire skins and things like this but so in these concessions and I'll pay in the inbox you know the answer is no

► 01:14:09

I want to kill a trap but if you called me and said hey we have restored this habitat in this whole River delta and low and behold the giraffes have absolutely taken off and they're very very successful in their decimating the vegetation here and they're starting to fight each other with great severity and we're finding dead bowls and stuff we need to remove 10 animals from this hurdle you come down and shoot 10 giraffes with me a hundred absolutely I can come down and contribute to the Ecology of an area either as a hunter or as somebody that's just removing animals with a high-powered rifle to create some more balance I'm all into it but if I'm going to pay you $70,000 to get a big main line so I can have my photo with a big maned lion that I can show my friends be like hell yeah that's what I was in Botswana and that's all I could tell you that story I've no interest in it and I think some of that stuff is

► 01:15:08

maybe really poisonous for hunting I think it's very poisonous that Cecil the lion story was incredibly poisonous yeah it was one of those stories where it was almost impossible to find any support for the guy who did that thing and you know what it was legal. It was I mean you know people say was a collared line and yet you can't really tell like they have giant me even if it was it doesn't mean you can shoot colored animal you're not called because they're protected it's not like the idea is like you could never shoot it because it's Collard yeah and you know it's it's just not what people is easiest it's real hard to justify if you're not eating it mean why why would you want to do it why would you want to go and how to line it doesn't make any sense you'd have to be an asshole think I can ask himself any questions I'll tell you that right why is he doing it because that's what he likes to do so that's why I haven't but I wonder

► 01:16:08

friends are that are guides and Outfitters and I understand that the meat is gross brown bear meat that is at a party once he'd be like head cooked it and put it in the made it like little hors d'oeuvres and he didn't tell people it wasn't like this really good what is it and I like on so brown bear they got real mad at him be fair but they like it so I was hunting brown bears on Kodiak Island a few years ago but when we got done classically trained Chef that live in town and he had him his buddies have killed a bear and so he invited us over for dinner when we are in town and he service brown bear and it was

► 01:17:06

amazing how do you cook he did several different ways but one of the ways he did it was really amazing I told us that the preparation was intense it so he made a bath a whole milk bath but the bear meat in it let it sit for 10 hours dump the milk output more whole milk and he did it like 4 or 5 times to just leech anything that was in the meat out right probably blood in any sort of I don't know if you can I don't know I don't know I don't know if that's going out bass like taking bath catfish fillets I mean would it be something along the lines of Osmosis would it be that the milk has a greater density so the so that blood wants to leave the meat and go into that and trade I really have no idea

► 01:18:01

going up really hot cast-iron skillet and it was phenomenal and then I just heard somebody the other day I listening to reading something about polar bear hunting and somebody was marking that the polar bears really good to eat and so I think there's a lot of misinformation out there about what is edible and what is not edible and what is good and what isn't and probably because of the preparation because people have been ignoring about how to prepare and key I'll meet ya I have lots of friends I think it's disgusting soak fish in milk for odor free cooking okay so it says when you're buying fish okay here's a science try to say that word trimethylene trimethylamine oxide is a common chemical in living things it's colorless odorless and produced by normal metabolic processes when a fish or shellfish is killed however breaks down into trimethylene which is the chemical responsible for that fishy smell that we know so well

► 01:19:07

your cutter fish isn't too far gone as the flesh is still firm and only a few days thought it most a quick soak about 10-20 minutes in a bowl of milk will help get rid of that odor in case it okay how do you say is that Cassie Norte since I've never heard it I only read it casein in the milk bonds with a trimethylene and while it's not a full extraction a quick soak and pull a good bit amount of Flesh reduce the odor so that's probably what's going on you reducing the odor in the meat and just be fish and this one definitely added yeah well did the big ones especially me that's one of the reasons why they grow so big on Kodiak cries cuz they have so much access to fish in short short torpor short hibernation yeah that's crazy man but yeah I've never I've never eaten Grizzly I've eaten brown bear or black bear rather my friend John and Jen they have a camp up in Alberta

► 01:20:07

we do you know them the rivets I don't they have a camp up in Alberta and great black bear hunting and Jen is a really good cook and she made this black bears stir-fry and even people that were skeptical there were like okay I've never eaten there before the holy shit this is fantastic stir-fry and then serve it over rice I mean is it's amazing it was so good and so good for you the way I explain to people who like to date like a deer fuck to pig that's what the meat taste like and maybe it's cousin was a cow like it's it's a strange it's not a meat that tastes like anything you can put your your thumb on like oh like that's just like this in India bear hunting all the way around it's just awesome but it's again it's so charged it's so charged in the public eye in terms of like how people perceive it it's one of those

► 01:21:07

animals and I think it's because of these movies that people grow up with these movies where these animals are friends and now on there looking out for us there are buddies and it's just like we've done ourselves no service by doing that by creating these films that have poison little kids Minds as to what these animals are and what these animals are opportunists and predators and they are there to remove the week in the the limping in the babies and everything else and get his hands on for population control I mean this is the balance of nature if we still were hunters and gatherers right there would not be there was not a single anti hunter in that group right there was that guy didn't live there's no room for that guy so even you know that when I talked about in our short film who we are like the president of PETA comes from a strong group of hunters and gatherers but otherwise the dude one be here like

► 01:22:03

are that if I could speak for them is that we're moving past that we're moving past animal cruelty we're moving past the need to eat and consume meat right I disagree I think we have through infrastructures of safety and laziness we've set that we've set it up so that you can go down that road if you want we set this up so you don't have to break it you know you never have to crack an egg if you have enough money you never have to crack an egg in your entire life and you can eat eggs your entire life so you can back away from who we really are as it did you know if you have the financial wherewithal or you live in New York City or you live in LA you can back off of the real Martinez as far as you want but in true reality this is really who we are it's just that we have infrastructures now that make up for that make you

► 01:23:00

that allow that disconnection they they allow you to to say hey we moved past us now like I can get my coffee at the corner you know and and and it get to go to Ethiopia right it's hard to argue and we did a piece of my production company sick man that we did a piece of years ago or last year for epic meets I'll never heard of those guys did you like high and jerky and they do like animal fats and they do bone broth and things like that anyway the owners were the owners were vegans they're both being a husband and wife and they're all other both also triathletes and they were doing these races and they were having a tough time recovering from the races and they actually only one of the largest vegan food companies in the country and they want to go see a friend who is a medical doctor a friend of theirs and then he said hey look I think you guys need to get some really high-end animal fats in your

► 01:24:00

systems to help your body recover from these races and they started doing that and their symptoms and I feel soreness Weatherby back pain hip knees I'm assuming that was all from the races start to go away almost instantly so I started kind of delving into their psyche and and their questions and they started kind of revisiting their philosophies if you willing

► 01:24:24

and I I don't wanna get the story wrong but I think while they still own the vegan food company they started epic meats and they thought can we find me that is responsible grown and source for people that don't want to kill at themselves and I and they went down that road and up actually selling the vegan food company off because people found out that they own both and I think there is obviously some

► 01:24:46

call Vince are they just found a really good source to me in and they do all field harvest in so we did we did a commercial production for them a branding piece for them and I'm the kind of highlight how they treat their animals and how they kill animals cuz they kill them rather than putting them on a truck and loading them into krauze and doing that whole thing they literally drive out with the same tractor that they feed them with and they have them on huge pastures what they're actually I'm reclaiming the ground is really cool when they when they do ranches don't go in and test all the soils of these ranches in the grasses and then they'll retest them after 1 year 3 years 5 years near finding even better soils and better grass does animals have spent time there cuz they're doing more fertilizing and and the grasses are being reclaimed and then they shoot the animal in the head of the high-powered rifle until they do just lights out boom done and then that's how they butcher I'm so

► 01:25:40

so they do it about is ethically inhumanely as you can kill an animal as you can kill an animal that's being raised in a pen what was that place in La was it called Harmony Cafe is that what it was called what was the place where the people that owned it gratitude Cafe Gratitude right that's right there was a place in La that was owned by these people it still is but they were vegans for a long time and they were having health issues as well and they decided to butcher their own animals and start raising their own animals and butchering them and I think they wrote about it on a Blog and they were just trying to explain themselves and they gets one fucking crazy the people that own the restaurant with crazy and they got a bunch of death threats and yeah and it became the giant issue with them it's you know I get where they're coming from they don't date they have is rigid idea of what's happening and they don't want an animal to die so they can live I get it but their perception of the the ethical purity of they're deciding to just

► 01:26:40

vegetables and in the actual actual Health consequences in terms of like how many people can get by and what year your physical dietary needs are how many people can get by on just eating a vegan diet especially do not like super careful when using algae and all these different things to get B12 and fat soluble vitamins and

► 01:27:00

you know you can get by but is it Optimum most people according to most nutritionist and people that aren't ideologues no yep I agree I mean rather omnivores we're not divorced and some people that are in the vegetarian World they want us to think that we are basically herbivores and we can get by and then our desire to consume it's just because of the sickness that we have in this test is evil nature that you know human being sometimes are possessed by it's just it's just not true yeah there are the whole reason why we became human being in the first place to post a like one of the lower primates a lot of that is attributed to our consumption of me yeah hunting meat cooking cooking with fire and such a fantastic like I would love

► 01:27:50

if I could do if I was a billionaire and you said hey do you want to continue along with the crew that you're on right now I absolutely would but the thing that I would love the most is that take people with me super hard for a vegan to to get into that though I mean I would have to have some sort of Desire on their part of life our child and you know it's only eating sprouts and say hey I'm going to go shoot this mule deer through the lungs with a fucking yeah yeah yeah yeah no they have questions they would have to be on that path I'm self it's just it's an interesting by-product to me of society of what we've done with this really incredible infrastructure that we've created when we can get food to these 20 million people that live in LA and no one be a part of that for Preparation in terms of

► 01:28:51

but you don't get any animal killing it at serving it in a butchering it cooking it serving it we could all that shit out and go right to buying the meat that's already cooked yeah and we've done it so much and it's so much more prevalent than any of the other steps you know most of the most of the consumption that most people in this country like when we were talking about eating meat I would say maybe even what is the number I would do I would like to know what the number is for I had to guess of how many people even cook their own meat and how many people are getting most of their meals from a store like a Dora a restaurant or fast-food at pre prepped and how many people would I even think about fast food cooking or meet me with cut out so many steps when I would have bet is probably more than half don't even cook their own me

► 01:29:48

yeah I mean people they just they just don't have they just don't have an understanding of where it comes from right and engagement there's just no understanding whatsoever it's hit as hard subject and I just saw I'm here to meet with you I just saw he was in the Minneapolis Airport there's a huge sign on the wall it was a picture of a massive massive cornfield and it may been doctored up use corn as far as the eye can see and it was for Cargill Corporation out of Minneapolis and then out of Minneapolis but it said

► 01:30:20

it said

► 01:30:22

preparing to feed a billion people

► 01:30:26

and so I just see that sign I'm just like yeah that mean that's hell in a handbasket right there corns fucking terrible for you terrible absolutely terrible literally you can read that sign and it's so beautiful like always corn stalks and they'll be food for us forever and why cook when you cannot the percentage of diners or dinners rather eating at home that were actually made at home in the US it is so weird having your hair is the shit it's so weird this is just dinner so so this is cooking so it's somewhere in the 60% range so the percentage of a dinner is eaten at home there were actually made it home in the US somewhere around 60% so good at 60% you got to think there's the mom or the dad that's cooking and then the kids that are eating the food so they're not cooking shit

► 01:31:24

that in terms of the actual human beings that are eating cooked food that they cook themselves yeah

► 01:31:31

so how can you how can you stand on a any sort of Laurels at all without in at least asking some questions answers are they feel better if they think that they're doing no harm and the way to do no harm is to eat vegan so this is the ideology behind it and I understand it I get it I appreciate it but the fucking anger at people don't follow that path is where it gets real squirrely now and it's a small number of people and I've talked about this in my act that the problem with vegans is the problem with people it's not veganism it's people if you get a room that has a hundred people in it those people being a fucking idiot is a hundred percent it's almost a hundred percent that one of them is a fucking idiot yeah so if you get 300 million people you have 3 million fucking idiots and some of those folks o'regan's and that's the problem with veganism it's not

► 01:32:32

it's not veganism itself it's there's a certain percentage of human beings that they don't have to do anything to become vegans right they just join this group it's not like you have a well where were thinking about allowing you into the vegan culture but we want to know what your philosophy is are you a hateful person are you a person is looking to be a vegan so you just talk shit about other people are you looking to be angry looking to be in a group or a gang of plant-based gas and put the word vegan in front of your name and just start talking shit cuz that's a lot of the people and so people read all these angry hateful things of these people right this is vegans but it's not most people are not like that at all but there's a certain percentage of them and they claim veganism and they usually put that name the word vegan in the fucking screen name that's how you could spot those assholes yeah you know what it is

► 01:33:31

not necessarily in the problem of diet it's a problem of human nature is that people love to stand on the moral High Ground a lot love to point down all the other people whether it's a religious issue like you're not eating Halal or you're not eating kosher are you you're eating meat on Good Friday for the fuck it is they just decide that they have this moral High Ground that you don't have to fuck you I'm doing it right and it really comes from our own questions of our own existence and this messiness that we are all inherently aware of that life eats life

► 01:34:06

big time Big Time there was a guy that I did a podcast without a main and he was huge for sure a vegetarian you might have been a vegan but then he started and he's off for two big time it's actually pretty remarkable what he does but I think 99% of his food he finds in the forest year-round he's just into it big time process all this food from Wild apples to a tow bar it's Daniel Vitalis I did podcast of him and he and he told me that and he eat insects he didn't want to he have this is completely against hunting when I started eating damselflies and dragonflies I got to get a little bit of hate mail and then and then a friend of his was like Hey you know we should let's go dig some frogs let's go get some frogs you know and he's like

► 01:35:06

okay so I'll do it at 4 and then it's a buddy of his want to take him fishing and they caught a trout and she's like oh my God it's like three frogs because it's 3 frog and so what he's eating it to his how much work he has to go through to get this protein or to get this you know to get to plant like you find one apple as 15 acorns you know until like he's quitting this to work and so he can't just kept moving up the food chain in and then one year he killed a turkey in any way that how much meat was on a snowshoe hare he's like that was like three meals friend try moose yeah and so he just kept moving out to kill a turkey then just every stage that he's moved up his hate mail

► 01:36:03

significantly and so it's just people quit all these things to write you you watch a black bear for a half a day in your life you see your dad like I just sat on his ass for 4 hours from now on as toenails there next to the girl and then you know when you're like oh my gosh my dad calling my dad you know when and so you know what there's things like that but that's where this I think that's where this really cool engagement comes from which Hunters is and there's a lot of hunters like I talk to a lot of hunters and I don't want to be negative I'm trying not to be negative but I talk a lot on her side I have nothing in common with them nothing like you hunt I hunt I don't even think we have that in common cuz I see how you hun and it had nothing to do with how is the saying about vegans at the problem is just being a human being a certain amount of people that choose to hunt their they're not well informed and they're fucking idiots yep and so that's

► 01:37:06

stop it's like same with the vegans the others I'm sure there's vegan sit at home and just grab your face and God I can't believe somebody just said that I can't believe they sent a death threat yeah we're vegan for some of my best friends you know and I was like oh you're vegetarian oh yeah yeah we're not going to have some fish for deer meat from you like okay now I'm starting this is a while ago people of ethical concerns comes from my friend Jake Shields he's a guy who fought in the UFC and he's a world-class Jiu-Jitsu black. He's been a vegetarian is whole life but he said he would eat meat that was hunted yeah cuz like cuz that's you know and there's no ethical and adds up in his hand for him right before answered his questions exactly exactly

► 01:38:03

we're not Hunters that ask great questions you know way better than conversations I've had guys that call themselves Hunters at times some yeah I mean this again it's the problem with people that just aren't thinking that much and then there's certain there certain parts of the hunting culture that are really abhorrent this there's people that think it's funny or fun to shoot as many animals and they don't they don't have any consideration to do you know that that this life has been taken so that your life can be nurtured get nutrition from the sound of my own and not thinking of it in terms of this cycle of Life there just thinking of in terms of just like that the worst aspects that you get like in a movie about hunting like

► 01:38:55

doing it going to the Artic I bring that up off because it's my favorite place but once I just so wide open and Northern Lights at night if you're if you're locking mass of moose and Caribou like watching Caribou migraine grizzly bears eating blueberries and you know I've been I spent so much time with Wolves up in these areas in and in really engaging with the wolves and stuff and just it's just always fed these experiences to me and that's what really started to mean that's what really matters the most to me was being in these areas

► 01:39:32

taking a deep breath being super present being super where and seeing all these different things that were filling my soul right true soul food while I was hunting a moose or while I was hunting and caribou and then maybe being successful on a moose or Caribou Inn in skinning it out and and feeling the weight on my back so I'm getting it back to camp in the northern lights are overhead or the if they're not out the stars are out and I'm hearing wolves howling and you know I live with a pack of wolves one summer in Alaska when I was up there doing a research and soul like all of the tragedy that I was doing research for the US fish and wildlife service and through September May through September whatever I did 5 years in Rowan and one year pack of wolves moved into my research Camp

► 01:40:29

well and Damo it was whoa I mean whoa I went fly fishing one night and I was standing on the bank of a river

► 01:40:37

casting it was an eerie Little River that I was on his pretty quiet but it had a good flowing We Were Us waiting for Sam to come up enough fly fishing for Grayling and I just kind of this Eerie feeling I was by myself and I was just had a feeling I was being watched and I happen to look behind me and there's a big ticket right these these these bushes that are probably 10 to 12 feet high is Bradley type tree like gnarly branches and I just staring in the Alders news grizzly bears where I was I was trying to mind my and I'm I'm walking on Wolf and grizzly bear tracks I'm fishing so I was just staring back in the others and it was it was like a movie so my my eyes were starting to truncate down on the leaves and then all the sudden it came to this little opening I could see a wolf's face staring at me through the holders in and she was probably

► 01:41:30

10 yards away and so I saw her and when I looked at her she was just staring at me and I just looked at her and I and I just said hey you know I just said hey I said hey Mom I was going on I just kept fishing cuz I want her to know that I knew and I turn my back on her I catfishing what low and behold she comes out on the Sand Bar with me and she starts walking down behind me and it's funny cuz if I didn't make eye contact she was totally chill but if I made eye contact shoots snarl at me she's raised her lips up and give a little deep sea to crawl and so she was at standing now she's probably 3ft behind me watch yeah and so she's she's right there she's literally right there and so I'm just like hey Mom what's going on just cast my fly rod and like when I'm not looking at her she's kind of trying to check me out but she doing the whole nose extension getting away with so she moves off she was off.

► 01:42:24

I did have a 12 gauge at that time I got 12 gauge slug gun but rarely took that thing with me but I got in trouble actually from one of my bosses was one of the other biologists told my boss like never never to carries the gun and was supposed to carry gonorrhea where we going so I'm just like whatever but I'm so she laughed and worried that she was going to attack you know so close that seems weird I don't know just checking me out she just checking out that's that's that's that's how I was reading into it anyway just by the way you were talking to her that she realize that you weren't even interested in being a threat and she was confident that you can get the fuck away from you that's a good question yeah that's a good question. Feet 2 3 maybe even two and a half feet but she's right behind you could touch her it gets much better it gets much better sending a whole summer with her and all the other animals in the in the pack so the next day I hear her Howell down the river so I'm just messing around so I

► 01:43:27

call back door she howls back to me instantly I holla back to her all the sun I see her she's now standing exactly where I was standing the night before it's all true stories she's sitting on her butt sitting upright like you would see a German shepherd sitting staring at me so I give her just a little toyl or She lays down she maintains eye contact with me and then she just sitting there staring at me and then she sits up again and I howl again it's just a little one She lays down again she just maintaining eye contact then she believes that night so that area that under that I was on its greatly impacted by even human foot traffic so you have to be really careful where you step cuz you know your footprint will be there for a long time so we can walk on these little pranks that we made out of two-by-fours I would sit up on logs our you know that we placed an input a place I'd check price laugh and I had a genetics 10 where I get all my stuff that I had to cook 10 things like that

► 01:44:27

and so but right in front of my 10 I had this little platform where I would get dressed in the morning cuz I would I would literally live for 5 and 1/2 months in a little two-and-a-half person pup tent so I get out in the morning and get dressed on this little piece of wood and then I'd walk. Breakfast or whatever works the river in the middle of night that alpha male was sitting on my little platform and Howell right outside my 10

► 01:44:48

I sat up and I grabbed my gun and I was just sitting there and he woke me up from a dead sleep I was just sitting there panting with McDonald's looking all around

► 01:44:55

I didn't know what it was when I heard something and I type it down I saw it was this big mail

► 01:45:01

cuz I got case just not just a wolf but like you know he's not going to bother me at all so I hung my gun back up and I just started set my gun back down and I just laid back down but those two instances just started each day the next day I come out and I'm walking to the genetics 10 and I see him he's 20 yards away and he's paralleling me on this plank and I go into the cooked and then I'm kind of like peeking out the little Corners you know like I want to die cuz I don't know what they're doing I don't want to walk out and get attacked or think that's what they have no body language of hunting whatsoever and so what is the body language of curiosity curiosity and it was just like that movie Never Cry Wolf that's exactly how the Wolverine game was that movie about a researcher book by Farley Mowat of a researcher that went up to the Canadian government

► 01:46:01

they were thinking that moves for decimating these Caribou herds and so they sent us biologist up there to research the walls to see how many care where they are killing in the basement with a while just found out I was at the wolves are killing any Caribou zero Caribou they were killing redback voles and they were fishing in there doing otherwise they're eating small animals which is basically a very large part with wolves do they eat very small animals and occasionally kill Caribou occasionally Como sings I got in certain areas are they can be really hard core predators in other areas that need a lot of mice and so but that's how these walls are engaging with the actor in this movie and you know they were trying to be included in there coming around and and so these these wounds they were just always present like even I would go hiking just to get some exercise and literally three or four of them would go with me

► 01:46:50

and it came back like 50-60 hours behind me but I died I feel like 10 miles an hour with me and return back to Camp with me and then it started to really grow as we have this research gear that's in the river so that we can count speciate and Sample the salmon as they swim through to go spawn but after the salmon spawn they all died right in so they would spawn die and then come back and wash up on my gear and so I have all these bats why the wolves are there they wanted to eat the dead fish that were coming back down and so as I started toss fish off on the banks of the river use I was tossing back into the river but I talked on the banks of freshwater fish and the Wolf started eating them and then our relationship just kept growing and growing and growing and growing in

► 01:47:35

and I'm spending like 3 months with them did you think while you were doing this this is probably how human beings and wolves yes develop this relationship percent actually I feel bad saying this and I hope I don't offend anybody but I was working with two guys to ask my guys may want to shoot all these wolves

► 01:47:55

I kind of lied to him and I just said man like I've ever seen wolves behave like this and they said no and I said well you know some of your guys believes you know if all that your ancestors move on into the Animal Kingdom right in there like I said well deserve a chance at some of these walls could be some of your ancestors you know and I know that's not true at least I think I know that's not true but they're like yeah yeah so I just was trying to convince his ex they want to blast these things and so I just convinced him not to shoot the wolves and I feel like an asshole singing I feel like an asshole saying that I don't know I just didn't want of where's my spam gone anyway yeah and so

► 01:48:37

you know I'm the i in the idea of management like it when we were in in in the short that Jamie is just plain who we are that we played you can see some wolves in there in a few years ago I got surrounded by a pack of wolves in the Arctic with the crew and it feels really beautifully and I wasn't a news one of the most remarkable engagements I've ever had in the wilderness neighbor definitely their body language was definitely looking at us as though

► 01:49:05

are we food right so this that's one of them but we had like six or seven wolves come in behind us so this would be in front of us two or three others would be behind us but you can see they're not attacking us they're not even hunting us but you can just see like they're wondering you know is there is there a play here right is there is there a play here and and and and I mean is I'm not being a tough guy there wasn't an ounce that I didn't have a not a fiber of my body was afraid at any point there's probably six seven wolves around us within 10 yards of each other

► 01:49:45

and then they just moved off and it turns out that the the moose that I was stalking I think they were stocking to there's a big bowl that was bedded and if they weren't stalking him cuz I think they would have their hands full with him. If they weren't stalking him then they were just moving in that general direction and they were for sure hunting and I just have always had a tremendous respect for them I've always spent

► 01:50:09

I've just a Vibe I'm always had time with them I've always a time and then I've always been I've had wolf tags in my pocket before you know this kind of falls under the same idea of conservation like these ones right here right I had a wolf tag in my pocket and my bowl I could have borrowed any of these wolves easily multiples of them probably but I want to kill a wolf here because I know one another wolf is gone right there the pack nose and so that that weighs on me a little bit that's me I'm so real issue see that was a thing for me is like I didn't have I didn't do my homework for this area so just like I don't know if there's a lot of vanilla was telling me that there is one of the explorers that traveled the West during Lewis and Clark dates his favorite meal was wolf and that wolf was literally his face

► 01:51:10

everything to eat I've never eaten it I would have a real hard time I just couldn't there too much like dogs there I think there's some sort of a genetic memory that we have our relationship with Wolves they mean they become dogs and they become are you know our Companions and they become a part of our community that it just wasn't for me but the pilot pick me up he asked me if I'd seen a lot of wheelchairs lot of probation on on moose year so we're trying or trying to really cut the Wolves down here by and I saw a lot of world but I also saw a ton of moose and I saw a ton of cows and I saw lots of cabs and lots of big bold so everything seem to be functioning in that area and I also saw a ton of red back bowls right they look like mice with little short tails and I know where there's a lot of red back bowls I know the

► 01:52:10

extremely well eating them I think wolves eat a lot smaller of prey than people think on average right we see Sensational things of small dogs are or Wolves filmed I know if it did you see that Dingo on that we filmed in Australia and while we are hunting Buffalo dingoes just exploded from the bush and the dingoes were pack hunting the Asiatic water buffaloes nobody's ever seen it before nobody's ever filmed it before we had the dingo Institute call us immediately from Australia we had a small tiny knowledge everyone that we talked to that is Dingle researchers they want to know exactly where this was never seen his behavior and see this Behavior right here that was am actually coming in the hunt. But you can see the whole crew sat down everybody was

► 01:53:10

totally committed they're trying to kill that calf right there and still that calf is monstrous right so there's four five six on there and then they chased a stampede the whole heard directly right into assets what you're seeing right here in that the herd actually comes to like 15 ft before they split around us were all sitting on our butts and then the dingoes actually turn their attention to us and they come in around us if you can see it instantly looking at us as a warm meal but like wolves like grizzly bears like black bears very quickly they looking in a guy ass is not going to work out for me yeah

► 01:53:45

I want to die you know what I mean is what I've got nobody ever seen is the fuck are they going after water bottle or no dude terrible idea but obviously there I don't know if this group is done this before but they must have read you must have been successful on the on a calf the idea is that they're going to chase them and wear them out and that one of the Cavs going to be separated they going to take it down yeah 35 lb that's so crazy that such a small animal and these Cavs even the Cavs probably like a hundred pounds bigger bigger fuck the other guy is Barefoot everything I might

► 01:54:26

that's why I hunt like I said that's tough I'm not I'm not going on a photo Safari ever in my entire life I'm not climbing Mount Everest unless there's something at the top that I need just not mine my DNA is not who I am but going out to kill a water buffalo in Australia because not only are they over populator actually decimating the country and they're not supposed to be there ASAP your fingers right now kill every buffalo in on the continent of Australia and you be doing nothing but helping a place and so those are the kind of Ryan going there seeing these things are not going to see him unless you're there and you're not going to see much of that for very long time yeah I just being in the woods and seeing wildlife in its wild environment is a crazy experience I was telling my friend Colton he's a guide in Utah and I was saying you guys should have a thing for people that have zero desire to hunt and let them like 10

► 01:55:34

don't put him in full camo and have them creep through the woods during the rut and watch these Elks scream at each other and communicate to just disappear around them is amazingly it's a it's an amazing person to know that these things have done this for thousands if not millions of years me they found whitetail deer skulls in Florida that have been age to over a million years so they know that they've been in that form and likely elk as well and that form for a fucking million maybe even more years at these things this is what they've done they've done it forever and to be around them when they don't know you're there we did this film for Under Armour me and cam hands and we went elk hunting in Utah and we we were in this is wooded area watching these out that were in this metal by a stream and we sat there waiting for a shot opportunity for like like an hour or so watching them they had no idea we were there and you know some of them work

► 01:56:34

1820 yards wet sounds like this is the crate just to be around them when they don't know you're there so amazing you watch him breathe Men's Health in article on us and so we took it was trippy like I'm talking to Art Director at Men's house she's in downtown Manhattan they have no idea what life is about so she's like yeah Donnie so what we going to do is go to have you and your crew so there's three in my crew and then we're going to have tographer for Carver's assistant and then we'll have the writer with you good luck so I'm just like so I'm stalking bull elk and I never I'll cut it before so I've no idea what I'm doing other than what I've read about and so I'm stalking these bowls with 6 people and they asked me like he work on Fox at night for camouflage and they said well what is raining we shouldn't wear and I said just try not to wear anything with it really bright star colors and try not to wear any bright yellows cuz that's the spectrum that elk CNN

► 01:57:32

shows off of just that I mean like canary yellow pants skinny jeans from my gate there are from Ojai where's Ojai that's here right Southern California from all high and it was wicked good We snuck out to eat we got to 18 yards from the 6 by 6 all of us 6 of us 18 yards in the sequester AZ and what was crazy is there staring at the six-by-six like all of their jaws are on the ground but I'm staring at them cuz I really don't care about the six-by-six he's too young and not going to shoot them but I love that I was addicted to their reactions the aliquot actually so we're staring at the end elk staring at these guys I'm staring at them I'm just like taking the song like this is pretty rad where were you guys

► 01:58:18

Nevada Shoal Creek range in Nevada looks too it's laughed really sharply and so I look over and there's a coyote 10 yards for my staring at the elk and then all these guys are seeing the Kyle they're seeing the elk and then everything runs away and I turn around look at these guys know just like one Star Wars like that was a literal monster guys know just two of the three of them on a hunt they never had in their lives now that writer writer Michael Easter he really wants to hunt and he's actually going to go on another home with me I thinking next year I'm going to spend like 40 days in the Yukon territories just walking from one end of this concession that friend of mine has like four and a half million Acres when I try to walk from 1/2 kind of to the other half if you want hunting our way through

► 01:59:18

film the whole thing beautiful a try to and tell a story and he wants to go along and write a book about the experience and soda right there in like an hour watching and he he put on quite a show I really wish you would have although they heard beagles cuz we camped at 12000 feet I made a bike all the way up to the top of my banana for camper cabin at the tippy-top I want you guys to like just experience in some bugles would equal out at night around the canyon I'm going to watch him eat and he he made a robin and just mess this trip with his antlers and they just that it's working great experience but I agree with you I think people like let's put some camouflage on it or he'll wear yellow pants you wear yellow skinny jeans if you want in your flat bill hat from Ohio and let's go sneak up on out back flat bill hats yeah I'm saying it just has a small creature of all sorts of different

► 02:00:19

that's why I think that what I was saying to these guys are just like you would without even having to have a tag like you guys could guy these people and it wouldn't be a dent in the resources who wouldn't diminish the population know but it would it would be it's an educational experience and just as ripples that come from now those people going to go back and tell other people about it and it's one thing go to the zoo but you go to the zoo it's the most unnatural environment the world where animals are looking you right in the eye and they're not freaking out that Dad has nothing to do with what your heart the elk is not an elk it's episodes of farm animal yeah it's just not the same when you see one in the wild and their their noses are flaring and they're smelling the air and their ears are twitching left and right is scanning for noises and you realize like wow this thing is out there fucking earning hustling you know eating grass trying to stay alive and if if it gets to you know like

► 02:01:19

the elf that I have out there was nine years old cuz I did 9 year old animal that's out there a surviving against mountain lions and bears and and just figuring out a way to get through and and keep survive and get through those Winters make it to Spring keep going keep going I mean that is a it's an amazing animal has a story that thing that has a story and if you sit down you know I'm sure you were sad when you kill them but you sit down and then I'm sure you are euphoric as hell that your plan finally worked because you've watched it fails 2000 * so you sit there with your kinda holy crap moment of this actually happening he's actually dead now

► 02:01:59

you know you have the sorrow of taking it out on his life and then you sit there and you have any perspective at all you think about those nine years just like you just did you think any of those nine years Buffalo back here like this is horn right so they don't lose it every year that the L cast their antlers off every year and grow new ones which is I think it's fastest growing biological substance known to man right yeah I'm Sleek crazy but things have corn so it's made out of like fingernails and try your fingernail or a bighorn sheep or don't cheapen drag your finger nail through these little Crags me see the splits and cracks in your life you know what was a bad winter in and what was a great spring and when did The Wolves chasing what did you almost lose your life in a fight in mind like

► 02:02:47

I wish you know I wish we could kind of whole lot of these things and kind of go through a little Montage what the saying live through you know but that's the only thing we can do is insert ourselves in the wilderness for a short amount of time or as much time as we can afford an In-N-Out that's where we still live yeah I mean that just the relationship that we have with nature I think is taking such a bizarre turn because of cities I think that what would we've done also in a relationship with animals by putting them these little animal prisons that we call zoos and having people going to stare at him some very unnatural way we believe really distorted the Majesty of wildlife and nature and there's only my opinion the only real way to appreciate with an what an animal is has to see an animal in the wild see it in its habitat and until that happens until you do that you really do you could see a

► 02:03:47

a giraffe at the zoo and they're pretty Majestic there really crazy and the one of the weirdest animals too because they let little kids feed them and they're so confident in their behavior news I have a bit about it in my ass and that's like you say that animals don't belong in the zoo I'm like I agree with you except for giraffes giraffes don't seem to have any problem with love it my job was out there like another day with no lie on this and it just wandering around having a great old time date I mean they are so confident that like when my daughter was too we brought her to the zoo and they let a two-year-old hold a piece of lettuce up for a giraffe they just fucking know yeah but if you saw it like I said the first time I ever saw him I was for my friend Mike Hawk Ridge and my friend Ben O'Brien the first time I ever saw a moose in the wild we pull the car over and it was like that scene in Jurassic Park when Jeff Goldblum sticks his head out of the Jeep and he's like yeah I like you seen one in the wild you realize how big they were

► 02:04:47

we are in this thing was just walking through this open field in the woods and we were like holy shit look at the size of that thing filmmaker killed by giraffe while working in South Africa hell yeah you got head-butted right yeah yeah we should have film of these two battling these heaux Bulls slam each other with their heads it's fucking crazy brutal yeah there's anything that lives out there that's way to go huh he killed by a giraffe the camera camera right now some other dimension all those people that closed down hunting I would venture a guess that anyone that voted on that ballot has never seen a grizzly bear or been a grizzly bear chair

► 02:05:47

or participated at all and understanding how that ecosystem works very small percentage of people is a very small number of people and they got the information from an email list why do I think the whole thing was less than 3000 people really crazy which style of misinformation and in rumor also if you talk to the actual wildlife biologist and maybe even more importantly the people that are in the field on a daily basis like there's no pop no problem with the grizzly bear population of British Columbia in fact it's thriving it's a giant animal that eats a lot of meat and spits out there taking out a lot of cabs right now as we speak and now they can hunt them they're very likely to have a situation where they're going to have to hire people to shoot problem bear absolutely the first Eco tour that goes down a boat full of the boss. Hiking group watches a boar kill and eat triplets kill and eat 3

► 02:06:47

football or watermelon size Cubs and rip them to shreds and eat them while they're bawling and trying to get to their mom and then have him killed the mom wants that goes down to be like okay I think we might have a couple too many bears here soon but that happens every day even in a great not every day but it happens often even in a good population but now that they've shut down any killing whatsoever these things have no predators are there from old boars have become bullies on the Block yeah what are they going to do about that because apparently there is some sort of a movement to try to educate people on and get them to understand what they've done by making this hunt illegal but what I would like to see is people also be educated on the fact like what you said that these animals are actually edible and that instead maybe the part of the problem is the fact these people just taking The Head and the Heart leaving behind the meat and if you were responsible for her not just taking the meat but showing that you're consuming it and then teaching these people how to cook it and then how to prepare it and and make them

► 02:07:47

you should be using this thing is in its entirety as a resource and it don't just think about it as this fucking rug for this you know skull that you can have on your wall and that's the problem I think that's the problem I don't know but I think that's prom cuz your nipples if people and some people do think this I get letters like this whole time or people say let me get this straight so and it always happens I post a picture of me with an animal in my backpack elk antlers or whatever like that backpack and I tell him like my first for backpack blowers or meet I'm taking the class it's how we do it the head goes out last cuz it's the least of importance that holds the least important since all of the hide in that go out lasso and if you take a picture of a backpack full of meat it looks like a custom meats inside so it looks like you're wearing a backpack so and we at we purposely did one last year in Nevada where you can see the Elks Hoff sticking out of the top of

► 02:08:47

backpacks of people realize like we are moving quarters and we publish his photos but so people will Ryan stay sweet let me get this straight you kill the deer you take its life you take it to hide and take his allergy just take it on the mountain and leave everything else the rotten to know it already says that as any attention everyone knows that deer Venison and elk in particular and it's delicious meat the fact that you would even consider leaving that behind us crazy Nobody Does that I've never heard of anybody doing I don't heard of it but I've heard a lot of fun and not not reality I just heard of it but I've heard people saying I ask it's what they used to do is what they did and you know I could even imagine that as a scenario in in today's day I mean the the meat is so good I got people at my house before the never eat milk and I'm cooked it for me like holy shit cuz there's a feeling you get from

► 02:09:47

charges you up it's a it's such a potent protein and so delicious I said it would leave that behind that should be a crime if if if anything I've seen it go the other way I seen Hunters argue over their share like if you're sharing out with a friend or you want when you can okay so I can go how much do I get you guys argue over that more than anything I sent I sent elk meat to the right of men's health who's running article cuz I ended up killing the two days after he left he had to go on another story and I ended up killing us ways I can you send me a box of meat so I can try it because I feel like I was really part of this hunt and I did Sony just like that he I mean he wrote about in the article but it's in the last paragraph forever but he sent me a text message just like you freaking kidding me the funniest thing ever in my life and he likes prepared correctly but you have to learn how to do that to you

► 02:10:43

Erin just you just love it he loved it in and he talked about like all those days that he hiked with us in the mountains you know even marked that he could taste that in the flash right he felt that he felt that connection now he's like big time wants wants to start hunting first food people if you really want to start hunting you really want to do it it's so difficult to get started it's so difficult to even find the resources to take the first steps like what are you doing to say I want to bow hunt like listen man first of all you need to learn how to shoot a bow and second of all you did by saying do you want to bow hunt what you're saying to me is I want to practice 300 days a year with my bow I want to really learn archery I want to learn the proper form I want to learn mental control I want to learn the ability to to keep your mind in in in the moment while you're under extreme anxiety

► 02:11:47

Lee and facing an animal to understand how to arrange an animal how to what what's the proper yardage where's the proper shot placement you're talking about a lifestyle you talking about literally changing your life this is not don't say I want to go bowhunting like I want to go deep sea fishing on a charter boat where they put they put the debate on the hook drop it in and I just really aunt that the fish that's that's possible saying I want to go bow hunting and I know they see you do it and go all you bow hunt yeah okay but I'm crazy and I've been obsessed with this shit for years should I practice everyday to go to my backyard I've got fucking rubber elk sitting on a Hillside and I should have them every day before I do anything so how much do you want to do it come on Archer yes you have to learn something about hunting now you have to actually get out of your truck and take a bunch of steps into the Wilderness and hope you can even just get

► 02:12:47

back to your truck let alone finding an animal illegal animals in archery range killing him quickly dismembering am getting freaked me out when I first went hunting yet. I was in shape as far as like Jujitsu and wash wash a butt fucking hiking with a backpack on in them in altitude and you're going up and down and up and down 7 hours a day like okay condition for this shit I mean I think the way to do it if somebody really wants to is really wild pigs wild pigs with a gun is probably the first way you should do it because I think first of all it has to be done this is something that's imperative you're talking about to be done enough can't be done starting now and you it would be great except for people enjoy wild pig meat and hunting awesome

► 02:13:44

pig hunting you're you're doing good for the environment this is an invasive species that devastates ground-nesting birds all sorts of plant species and and if you're dealing with agriculture like wow and then it's really you talking about a massive financial burden on Farmers but with a rifle that's the way to do it because of right so much easier if you have a rifle rest and someone can take you to arrange the DeLorean car service so much shorter than we win the bow absolutely if somebody could share with you is to share a duck blind or something because sometimes it's difficult to wrap your head around killing a large animal first it might help to kill as odd as that sounds were more comfortable killing pheasants or Grouse or docks or something like that but that's also a very tricky

► 02:14:36

shot and you know there's in their safety elements there because a number of people have guns and not everyone's bringing attention yeah I've done it two years in a row now when we hunt Axis deer in Lanai and it's another one of those things that has to be done there is something around 3,000 people on the island and more than 20,000 axis deer and it's a very small island and it's fucking bananas and then we were coming home from we got super lucky on the first night the first night of hunting we got out of the truck we set up a Target to see if the Bose were in tune

► 02:15:20

shot one Arrow to Target and Alec the guy that I was with about 200 yards holy shit we kicked off her shoes Stockton on him and I killed him in 15 minutes which is nuts cuz it will work the next 4 days without killing anything and I finally got another one of the last day but you could choose as many as 12 day and then they want to get rid of all the house and home right now it's crazy the numbers the numbers of crazy but it's also crazy how to do in these things aren't at the evolved to escape tigers are from India they are fucking switched on there like a whitetail deer on steroids and meth never seen an animal so fat so wicked yeah but it's a good argument for hunting it's like what years are the here's the situation where the animals are out that the population is fucked up there's no balance

► 02:16:21

why fear this is not like this there's no balance here this is completely out of balance yet and because of that they hire snipers that's exactly what it did just to keep it somewhat in Chattanooga but unless you want to let wolves lose on the silent and you know I don't know how else you're going to fix that that's what's really supposed to be not catching them I actually studied Tigers right out of college in Bangladesh and Nepal and I would see it I would see Axis deer there and they were I mean the jungle there that was real so like date that's why they're looking at everything right cuz you look at me like that thing can hide but then you go to the jungle and everything is green except for all the bad I turned bright orange and they all have really long sharp Franz that look like a tiger stripe CiCi's little blotches of orange and black all

► 02:17:20

give me the green and saw but we would see the deer and the deer would know like we're going into an area that had to either we had that CAT was radio Colorado River going in to look at up together a piece of habitat the deer were just like on pins and needles like we getting remotely close you could see him we are doing a lot with islands and you'd see him leaving the island on the other side like they be ditching this one to the next Island very aware that extremely where how crazy is it that somehow or another the tiger involved to develop those stripes that look like the colors in nature like what is the mechanism Phoenix representation yes he's all like this is from I don't know where this picture was taken at this reminds me of like in Nepal and Southern apologize I was a royal chitwan National Forest to have this grass that grows like 20 ft tall and I mean just absolutely disappear but how bizarre is it that this animal somehow or another evolved is camouflage it's so strange so strange that's so that's what's so amazing out

► 02:18:18

idea of the phenotypic all their physical representation their genetics is so fantastic what did you study in college wildlife biology yeah cuz I wanted to know when I got started doing do you know hunting in things like I don't come from a hunting family so I just when did you start hunting

► 02:18:38

oh I says as soon as I could like when I was 10 11 12 I would force my dad he had a hit a couple of guns cuz he just had guns and he was a kid and he would he would go out to eat go like you're hunting once a year with a buddy of of his in Maine but it anyway I think they just drink beer and I don't think that I need like you never told you I don't think I ever even deer on it they just literally drive up getting cabin of their bodies and get hammered get hammered Jason it right that's like when it when I was in high school one of my friends from high school he did that he is his family would go deer hunting in his dad literally never killed a deer yeah I like that is the dumbest shit I've ever heard of my life your dad spends all this time hunting in the woods is never killed a deer hunting David Abel dad is at the gift to me was my grandparents got him a subscription outdoor life books so he gets all these at all these books that were offended by these gifted offers one of them was named Jack O'Connor

► 02:19:39

who's inspired my entire career but I'd read all these things and and so I just thought I want to spend time outside tomorrow as well get a wildlife biology degree and then do research and live outside and things like that is odd I thought it was when I was in college I was still hunting a lot and I family and friends sent me down and I came and you got to like buckle down on your studies and I wasn't disagreeing with them but they're like you need to stop hunting stop hunting so much that you like literally I'd go to the Arctic Caribou hunting by myself when I come home and go to classes and then I believe you it'll ask on a black brown-eyed come home and go to class and then I just save as much money as I could didn't party didn't drink any of my body's did you know I didn't do anything lavish I just literally kept going on trips and you know it's kind of busy What's led to my career today but it is funny that I know these kind of things travel in parallel if you will when did you start making films and when you did it did you make them with the intention of trying to relay like what I was explaining that we need a podcast that what you do best is you as much

► 02:20:39

she's possible in an hour you were laying the whole experience as opposed to what you're going to get when you see a hunting television show or what special what you're going to get when you see hunting in a movie yeah so we started in 2012 and I had some guys that approach me to host a hunting TV show and I said why was I going to look like I said I will pay for your trips will get all your sponsors and stuff lined up you'll be fully sponsored will split the sponsor dollars with you will buy your airtime X Y and Z you guys were pretty wealthy I like this sounds like the absolute dream to me but I said I want to control how it's filmed where we go how we hunt and the gear that I use they said a hundred percent very quickly within like the first eight days those things started to go out the window they said we want you to go here and help with this guy cuz he's super popular we want you to kill this and we want you for this clothing I was like no I've never do any of this I'm not doing anything this so I said you know what you guys IP

► 02:21:39

Tony Romo walk away from this gig and so I walked away from it and then I met ended up meeting up with Kyle of him you met earlier is in your green room right now and then another guy named William Oldman who's our director photography now it's Samantha and I met up with these guys and then through a series of weird circumstances we ended up filming together and we just started kind of going on trips but when we started going on trips Our intention was never to do a TV show or intention was how can we tell a story about what we're doing is really what we're doing ends up and having a really fantastic tell him to be a huge tail does have to be Moby Dick but there's a story whenever you're going on these hunts and so we just decided that like how can we flush this out so we just went on these trips we film them as beautifully as we could we found them as completely as we could write a lot of guys when they go on these trips will film okay you arrived and now you're hunting and then you kill an animal and they're just trying to like get a little piece of everything

► 02:22:39

and then when we got done we started putting together our first film and we thought okay we'll put together a film we'll see what the audience kind of things and then we'll just play from there we'll just go from there and see what happens in so I started writing the film writing the script every all the all the dialog I was going to live outside of what it was already naturally occurring on camera and I brought into Kyle's office and I was like yeah. Sarah dessen you pick up my notebook things like do you like I've never ever heard you talk like this I've never ever I think probably a little bit Macho in a little bit Sensational little bit like being actual delivered like delivering a line and in trying to convey something on film that wasn't me talking about your experiences like that like like painted picture for us an answer some questions of your own so I started

► 02:23:39

release our first film in 2012 or 13 the river's divide I was a story about a deer that I was hunting for two years in North Dakota and it just took off Steve Steve Steve a friend of mine named then because a friend of his who is named Steve said the fact that you named ear is idiotic and completely stupid and my friend Jeff said great that the next year we find is doing name Steve it is a weird thing when you watch a lot of these shows in people have like a piece of property in the trail cameras and they have all these different names for these dear my name is like we name things

► 02:24:30

right you eat if you have to if you have two sons you don't go yet there's so there's my skinny boy the one that does okay in school and here's a little fat one that we can keep Peas on the fork with but this is Bob and Jeff and so like when were deer hunting with these animals like it when you're on Lanai you don't have this opportunity but if you were there

► 02:24:51

all your long you might be like hey I saw the box with the Crooked you might be like I saw crooked horn I saw him again tonight you know and then rather than saying to your wife your girlfriend your body saying hey I saw that you know that one box of mine with a cricket instead of going down that road you start naming all this stuff right people name their cars we named motorcycles we are in this hunting journey and you just recently started elk hunting

► 02:25:19

September's only so long and like I said I like the article. You on Colorado 10 years ago 15 20 years ago I hunted cow elk on a cow elk hunt but I literally lasted 3 minutes I hiked up in the pitch-black I hiked up the light 11,000 feet sun came up in there is huge, I look at 30 yards I shot her and I was like right that's

► 02:25:52

done and so I cut her off clean her up and I just had always went to Alaska during September and not in the elk mountains and finalize just like I need to do this and it was awesome I did good and bad experience great experience with like the morning that I killed was Sensational is Misty Raney the Bulls were screaming everything was very wild where way back in there is really Sensational really really impact won't but up to that point the area that I was hunting the shell Creek range in Nevada's and they only have a few tags there

► 02:26:26

but when you get a tag everyone who hires basically all their family and friends to come and help because it's such a rare tag so there's 30 guys to every tag and so I saw four-wheelers and side by sides near complete and utter intrusion negative intrusion by hunters into this Wilderness it's ridiculous and it needs to be stopped in my opinion but you should have to leave all your motorized vehicles on pavement and going to the mountains on foot that's my opinion but this area that I was in they had something like 400 miles of improved to track roads that guys have literally just like they see something over here they want to get to it just start driving there side by side right across the sagebrush and they just start writing this stuff down pretty soon there's a road and so this area started I'll just make these numbers up cuz I remember that but they start out like a hundred miles of dirt roads in this mountain system quickly expanded A4

► 02:27:27

hundred miles of dirt roads because people just trying to access wherever they want to go with an ATV really started to impact the elk to where they they were getting pushed out of their winter ranges by people on ATVs and they're getting access nearby ATV that they just recently closed on something like 200 miles of roads and even close down even more but as far as I'm concerned should be closed down if you want to go and do if you want to go and ride your ATV go ride your ATV if you're all coming leave date to be on the road most least mostly side by sides are a couple of quads but mostly side-by-side yeah those those are very very controversial we were in Nevada couple years back in the the the desert area like Sagebrush area near few hours outside of Reno and we experienced a few of those were people are doing

► 02:28:27

they're using them illegally they were driving into these areas where you know you're off the road and your you just just driving through these open Plains areas with these ATVs and I'm supposed to be there in spooking deer and yep impacting the substrate in the soil is bad on one hand I say well you know it's not the worst thing in the world in terms of like if you need to get an animal out of there I kind of agree with it but I kind of understand your point maybe you shouldn't even be able to do it with that because because then you're going to look it's going to really hard to regulate whether or not a person should or shouldn't be able to use it at any point in time I'm not talking about like if somebody that's handicapped or somebody that's truly debilitated want to access is there absolutely I'm talking about able-bodied middle-aged in young men run are not doing their not working hard yeah that's a weird thing right like they were they want to be able to do that and then there's also people

► 02:29:27

I'll be able to go in there on Horseback yeah that's that's another argument I've heard people that have been hunting and they you know in a quiet area and then all sudden 5 people come by on Horseback in front of them you know that there was an Outfitter in the Outfitters me they took the time to hike 19 miles deep into the backcountry and you know it's it's hard hall and then next thing you know some people come in on Horseback and you know they they got pack mules and also to other shit is a fucking Caravan of animals and people misspoken everything out that barrier Venturian right of the most like it's for me and I'm sure for you too it's the most rewarding to do the work backpack in Suffern right that's suffering like I feel like we should have to suffer for this but also rewarding to do it on foot because you're going deep into this area that's hard to get to and when you do get there there's nothing there but you if you

► 02:30:26

you're the type of person that's willing to die hiking seven eight nine 10 Mi the deeper you get the further you're going to distance yourself from everybody else cuz most people are going to do that most people aren't going to look if you especially that's the weird thing about public land rights like kind of anybody can get in there but who's going to get in there 22 Mi I'm sure you go through this too but I'll kill an animal and Hunters right away they want to identify you was on public or private land on public land in people think that it's this and I'm not let me know when there's certain reason countries more difficult people think of you killed an animal on public land like your real Hunter to go to deal with other Hunters

► 02:31:09

when when you're accessing when you're going deep in there's not a tbs's not side-by-side you can actually hike into an error you can get away from these people right you can get away if you are willing to access what people like to celebrate public land cuz you're you are not a guided hunt you weren't in this it's also a well thing two people want to do they want to disparage accomplishments for people that do things that they're the wealth is a barrier for entry like but the problem I have with that is first of all the wildest of the wild is the place where people can't go you know what if you can get to in the other thing is like if somebody said hey you know I'm going to give you a tag for Nevada for some Vino private land area that is just an unbelievable elk hunt but it's a private land to but Imma give it to you you're not going to go on are going to do that private land I don't do that no I said can I get the same to you can because there's a barrier for entry barriers Finance

► 02:32:14

yep but those areas where you go if you can get into these private places those are the areas where there really wild cuz there's no fucking people you can't go back there yeah you know when you get to see these animals the way they would be when when there is no access to the public cuz there isn't but I can I get why people would be upset that some people can afford it and others can't don't for sure forgot her it's definitely yeah I mean it's it's everyone wants to participate in every wants to see an access always different areas in and you can't write when it's the negative experience if somebody can I feel the same way when I go to some of these like I'll go to Wild sheep foundation and they bring up the Montana Bighorn tag for sale I would love to buy that thing those those things are so ridiculous we have those auctions in the tags go for hundreds of thousands of dollars

► 02:33:13

$150,000 in Austin crazy fucking crazy I mean the fact that people spend that money and then the other thing is I mean I know a guy who did that to hire these people to sit on this one fucking big horn dont from months they stay they they hire these guys to basically be full-time employees to scout this one gigantic Bighorn tracking around $5 would keep an eye on it and then finally the season open in this guy trudged in their yelled at and killed it here's what I would do if I was a billionaire or had the cash I'd buy the tag I'm telling you right now your face I would buy that tag Austin if I had that kind of money but instead of hiring the crew to find me the Grand and watching it on opening day in killing it I fire the crew because I have enough money I go in there and spend the entire season in there myself immersing myself not Wilderness and using the fact that I have a pile of cash at home to live in the wilderness for 30 days and maybe kill a bigger and maybe not

► 02:34:13

but these guys want they want the bragging rights they want it's a resume to I talked about this little bit before but it went when we are kids like you went fishing with your dad or hunting with your dad or whatever like let's say you went on a little local Lake here in California whatever you guys are going bass fishing you guys go bass fishing in your catching bass whatever then all the sudden one magical Sunday morning you or your dad hooks a monster bass and you know there's a lot you finally get your hug in your high five in your oh my God we've come to this like 30 times has the biggest fish ever caught

► 02:35:07

that that you know and then and then you take the pictures you can homie tell your you know you tell your mommy tell your friends like oh my God he came up and the Frog and we set the hook and you tell it was wrong that fantastic experience

► 02:35:21

these guys are trying to buy that like that's a really remarkable experience when you when you go elk hunting and you stumble into a really big bowl or you do your homework and you and you keep truncating down the information you keep taking steps into the Wilderness down until you find this really massive bull You Slippin you have the wind right your hidden in a bush or against The Rock and Siri comes and you can't believe that you've done your homework and you've truncated on this experience and here he comes in you come to fold Ronnie for whatever reason stopped at 30 yards and you find your PIN you just you watch Arrow zip right through him an email you look around for somebody to tell it's just a huge experience they're trying to bottle that up

► 02:36:04

write a big fat check and try to experience that in one After experiencing it experience it or is it that they want to show that they have the thing they want to show it was that experience I just described you those emotions everyone can relate to that other people have done this can relate to that so when they show you their pictures are 200 inch RAM all everybody's man what are the how it all my friend and really has known is no interest whatsoever like that is literally just to build a resume big maned lion right is a truly Wilderness experience your homework and I know but this is how my mind works

► 02:36:48

tell me the story I'd love to hear it but if it's anything other than that and then

► 02:36:52

it's not for me well that's the thing about you what you're saying mirrors what I hear from guys like Steve rinella and people that are really accomplished Hunters that are very ethical and have the right mindset is that this is supposed to be difficult Dart yeah the experience is supposed to be your supposed to hike all those miles are you supposed to go up and down those Mound supposed to be exhausting it's supposed to be hard to get close to one of these creatures it's supposed to be difficult you're supposed to not know what's over the next Ridge. It's suppose that's butts part of the reward and if that reward isn't there it's like shooting fish in a barrel shooting fish in a barrel of weird it's not interesting at all definitely need a fish in life right like you know what I'm not saying everything has to be like his because then somebody might say while you're using a compound bow the other guys using to record while it's a good argument

► 02:37:53

it's weird right but if you're doing it doing it well I'm good it doesn't matter you know it shouldn't matter like if you are at the girl if you're hunting for the right reasons you're asking yourself these big questions it shouldn't matter if you pick up a rifle and you should have been a hundred yards or you pick up a recurve in you shoot him at 10 yards cuz I I know recurve Shooters I can only shoot like 15 18 yards I know recurve Shooters I can't you 50 60 70 yards and you know so we're all different we all like to let you know some people really enjoy shooting a rifle some people really enjoy sitting there but I don't think we should split hairs there just realized that the barn or maybe had to do go to the next level of immersion to get himself next that animal and and you know the rifle Hunter you know there is a slightly less barrier of Entry but it doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with it on public land is probably more difficult than bow hunting on private land

► 02:38:53

is out question and certainly more difficult than bow hunting on public land because Bonners have this the reason I started bawling was have access to public land prior to the rifle season yeah to extend my season to go in the woods when it's quiet no one else is around and see animals acting be naturally rather than seeing this orange Army and seeing everything running for its life yeah that's where I get squirrel it right I mean to. Public Access is great but man it does get really weird and I've experienced it when there's a lot of hunters around it gets really like I was in Wisconsin for opening day couple years ago and it is like a war zone the moment light goes off here boom and I was like what the fuck is going on man where are we at war is like this is opening day in Wisconsin I was like that's crazy I mean it is just everywhere

► 02:39:52

just gunshots rang out in the distance but literally you probably can't kill enough to hear that day in Wisconsin you better managers fuck get here cuz people hitting it with cars all day long enough and we were eating them they were eating a lot of corn because we're my friend Doug Durant Farm as we're hunting tall corn Yeah man they could not have tasted better they were so good yeah he wasn't saying wewe sauteed them that night and a cast iron skillet with the garlic salt and butter and holy shit was a good player just moaning in the end orgasmic ecstasy weather eating his dear its cuisine mad and so good you know when your body's at spits it should be on its value freezing cold outside you're indoors and it's warm and everybody's happy man it was epic

► 02:40:52

I'm going to be told it is something to be told I think and we should probably wrap this up for about 3 hours in but I think I would want people if they really curious about this endeavor I really would want people to start with your films cuz I appreciate that I think that what you're doing if they have the time to sit down and watch that whole thing what you doing is you yeah I think you represent the best just the best slice it's so hard to get that sliced 22 minutes and I think we know it doesn't amazing job in doing it in 22 minutes but I think what year what you've done by turning these into films I send by really giving yourself the opportunity to relay you our appreciation the wandering the author of Nature and your immersion into that world and to do so and such an incredibly creative way and beautifully visually stunning way that I think you've done an amazing

► 02:41:53

service and I think I think it's a great place for people to start to get a look at them in for people that do hunt I think they will really appreciate it they haven't seen your stuff before I appreciate that man like it's we definitely suffer for the work like writing the music the shooting at like

► 02:42:11

we do we want to represent ourselves with absolute Purity but we also realize that there are people that have questions so we try to write and behave in a manner that like you like you've done today several times and she said he explained with a concession if people don't have concessions well if you can write in this certain manner give them some sort of an education while you're telling them the story and into a politically and that's it's it's it's at the I appreciate it through this so few people doing it that way you don't mean Sitka make some really good films and making some longer films another 10 to 20 minutes and in longer but I think very few people are doing what you're doing really making it into a movie you know I appreciate that man this next one will be about 90 minutes in length and I'm really excited about it I can't wait man let me know I can appreciate it thank you

► 02:43:02

thank you everybody for tuning into the podcast and thank you tour sponsors thank you to Omaha Steaks go get yourself that Father's Day package kids right now Omaha Steaks is giving a limited-time offer to listeners of this podcast on Father's Day at 78% office in amazing deal go to Omaha steaks.com type of Rogan in the search bar and you can get this Omaha Steaks Father's Day package filled with yummy delicious meat against a limited-time package for only 49 99 when you go to Omaha steaks.com type Rogan in the search bar add the Father's Day package to your car that's 4999 for the Father's Day package for a limited time don't wait this offer ends soon go to Omaha steaks.com type Rogan in the search bar grab your dad and fire up the grill we're also brought to you by stamps.com allow you to access all the amazing Services of the u.s. post

► 02:44:03

the office anytime you want 24/7 go to stamps.com click on the microphone of the top of the homepage typing JRE and they will hook you up with a 4 week trial plus Postage and a digital scale it is literally the easiest way for you to access the amazing Services of the US Post Office so go to stamps.com click on the microphone at the top of the homepage and type in JRE that stamps.com enter j a r e tomorrow Kevin Smith we're finally getting together we we had a little bit of an issue last time Kevin and I when we do these podcast we usually go way long and we just decided hey he only had a certain amount of time last time let's move this push it to the later in the month and that way we can get our proper conversation and so that will be tomorrow very excited I hope you enjoy it and I can't wait then Robert shock is going to be here the guy who is the geologist from Boston versus u.s. is very controversial

► 02:45:03

sorry about the Spanx I've been a fan of his for years I'm very excited to hear about this he's work with Graham Hancock and John Anthony West rest in peace and he was apart of that documentary that they had I believe it was on NBC years ago called The Mysteries of the Sphinx hosted by Charlton Heston very controversial documentary but really opened up a lot of people's eyes about the the possibility that some of the sites in Egypt indicate that they had an advanced civilization too far older than we give them credit for

► 02:45:38

Dutch be awesome I'm a fucking pumped all right that's it for now love you guys and gals and everybody else love you