#729 - Jocko Willink

The Joe Rogan Experience #729 - Jocko Willink

December 1, 2015

Jocko Willink is an author, black belt in Brazilian jiu jitsu, and retired commander of the most highly decorated special-operations unit of the Iraq War: US Navy SEAL Team Three Task Unit Bruiser, which served in the 2006 Battle of Ramadi. His book "Extreme Ownership" is available now via Amazon -- http://amzn.to/1Nmzm9E

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Hello friends, dates coming up December 11th I'm at the Cobb Theater at the MGM with the great Joey Diaz Joey Diaz been blowing up lately and it's very difficult to get him to do shows with me these days cuz you just headline and everywhere which is awesome but I get so pumped when I do get a chance to work with him and so that will be one of the rare dates that we do together that's December 11th December 18th I'm at the Bob Carr

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what does PNC stand for

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never remember in Orlando Florida and then the Big Show The Big Show and if you're interested in the Big Show of the Bob Carr theater almost sold out and The Wiltern is also almost sold out that is December 31st in Los Angeles New Year's Eve The Big Show that is honey honey band Joey fucking Diaz Duncan fucking trust motherfuker in traffic and me December 3rd probably the biggest wave ever put on ever that's December 31st and there's a lot of other shit I got coming up but you can go to joerogan.net find out all about that including going to be in New York City the beacon I've got three shows now at the Wilbur Theater in Boston to the first two

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this episode of podcast you did you hear that that cop going down clink Escape man Coffee Company betches right there in the mug caveman coffee co.com go there enjoy indulge they have kettlebell coffee mugs how about that you need that the office show those fucking lard-ass is in your office

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my favorite underwear is me on this one of my easiest asked to do cuz I don't even read the copy cuz I wear these fucking things everyday now and when I first got him it would be like a treat when I would where we end each side of my regular underwear and I put my meundies Annabelle comfy but now I don't have regular underwear anymore I tossed them bitches out meundies is made with a microfiber called modal micro micro modal fabric what it is and it's it's plant and its much softer than cotton and wants to try it on you'll realize like this is this is really good it's actually they're better underwear like you would think that underwear is like something you really can improve on you definitely can improve on it Unfortunately they make a underwear that matches

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for men and women like the men and women you can even match them together on I say unfortunately because if you buy that and you you both wear the same underwear your fucking dorks first of all chick should be wearing only slutty lingerie that's it

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only only stuff with a hole in the crotch and Lace everything has lace and nothing but black and red that's my rule kidding but if you do if you're one of those fucking weirdos that wants to match up your underwear with the old lady or the old man you can do it and if you're gay you're in luck because you could always get magic underwear gay people at Lucky's walk in that respect it's not hard to dress alike are they also launched a new boxer line it's like wearing nothing at all only better with the holidays around the corner meundies make the perfect gift Triumph go to me indeed.com Rogan right now and get 20% off your first order plus all orders in the US and Canada always ship for free me and he's even as a money back guarantee so if you don't love your first pair you get to keep them for a full refund you literally have nothing to lose order before December 13th and your meundies will arrive in time for Christmas

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he did enjoy rights great watched yeah I wear it all the time I have the eye where the white one with the tan leather strap it's it's a nice watch it's a very good-looking watch and it's really high quality and I was eating you know you hear what a watch for a hundred bucks or what is it going to be a junkie ass watch know it's a very nice high quality beautiful looking watch for 95 bucks at least start at if you got to watch like this apartment story probably spending at least four hundred bucks for another five hundred bucks to minimalistic styles for a clean and Sleek the brightest thing in the office all day all day you could wear when you going out looking for a job

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all right that's it no more ask my guests today I poached him from the Tim Ferriss podcast Tim Ferriss has a very good podcast if you never heard it before it's actually went and he had this man on Jocko willink and I knew Jocko from the UFC I didn't know him well I knew him he's always hanging around I saw him with a bunch of Fighters and I knew he's always with Dean Lister and some some other dudes that I knew from mixed martial arts but I just did not know his background until I listen to him on Tim's podcast and I was extremely impressed with him he's a former Navy SEAL who wrote a book called Extreme ownership and I don't say anything more about him because he's just an excellent guest I mean it was really really really enjoy talking to him and he's an exceptional human being and I think you will you will as I did learn a lot from him today so without any further due please welcome my guests Miss

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Jocko willink

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The Joe Rogan Experience

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all right ladies and gentlemen we are here and I'm here with Jocko willink of extreme ownership how US Navy Seals lead and win I'm really excited to read this cuz I really enjoyed your podcast with Tim Ferriss and I've seen you around the UFC a bunch of times but I know I didn't know much about you but you're one of those dudes know where I look at this guy Mike that we know some shit this is something about you like when I see you you hang around with Lister I saw you a few times at the UFC in my I probably know some shit already seen some shit and then I saw that their listen to the Tim Ferriss podcast. Okay well that makes a lot of sense now if you haven't heard that podcast it is excellent and you're the one that the first guy ever to come with your own notepad in your own pen to just one point that out just try to be prepared that's your whole thing man a big fan of your social media post to because I like feeling like a lazy fuck whenever I look

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your social media posts you have a picture of your watch 4:45 in the morning stews out there working out I like it social media presence like 3 months ago or whatever the case may be and Tim Ferriss was you know basically said hey you need to get on this Social Media stuff and I said okay can you kind of show me what to do when he said yes sign up so when I signed up and he dropped that podcast of get to listen to buy a bunch of people and all of a sudden I was engulfed in the social media world and I found Twitter to be the one that was the easiest to use and you don't have to write a lot so you don't like people that talk a whole bunch without saying anything so I figured that was pretty cool yeah that was the thing that I was thinking when he was encouraging you to use social media apps like a guy like you you're not a peacock her you know and there's something about social media like as a person who's an avid social media user disappeared

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talking to it you know when I try to do it with humor and I tried it because it's it's an important aspect of promoting comedy shows and podcast and things along those lines but you much more of us keep it to yourself things that I loved about the first podcast were talking about how you would have Commander succumb to various leaders and ask them what do you need what do you need and guys would have all these requests and all these things we need Wi-Fi we need this and you were like we're good sir we're good sir and the idea behind that is when you did need something if you really did need something someone come to you yeah you would get it quickly absolutely will not what I needed something and I spoke up and said hey boss this is what I need in this is why I need it they would instantly give it to me because I knew that I was telling the truth that it wasn't some you know half-assed request that wasn't real was something that we lived yet needed and they give it to me all this is the value of Summer

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and who keeps their word short and means what they say and says what they mean and doesn't have a lot of bulshit involved in their vocabulary or in this coming from a professional bullshiter in is what I do I buy bullshit I talked to shoot the shit about nonsense with my with my partner and who I serve with Norwegian on a 300 page book about us you know for all practical purposes now of course it's about our team and it's about what we learned what we experienced but there's no doubt that there's some level of you know self-promotion when you're writing a book that's got your name on the cover of it and and now I'm sitting here talking to you and I guess that puts me in the same leave may not the same leave but at least I'm playing the same sport yeah we're definitely playing the same sport but but there's benefit to that because I think what you have to say and especially what you had to say in the Tim Ferriss podcast is is very important it's

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which is important it's Unique and because your perspective is of one who was involved in the most intense activity a human being can participate in in today's world you were involved in combat in Iraq during the worst time of the war and you came through it with some pretty intense lessons and

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you can I think anybody listening to that podcast can get a lot out of it there's inspiration to be gone from that podcast for sure but there's also an understanding

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that can only be I don't think anybody else can relay what you experienced but you you know you can have all these guys at right these you know movies and they could write screenplays and television shows about or guys can write books about an embedded journalists can write about it it's not the same it's not the same I got a sense from just you talking about on Tim Ferriss podcast literally a shift in my perspective of what it's like to be there

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it is so for me it was my and I know this might sound weird but it was my lifelong dream to be in combat and to be in a leadership position in combat ever since I could remember wanting to do anything

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of any substance with my life I wanted to be some kind of a Commando and so I really felt and Annabelle rahmati was you know like you said it was 2006 it was ramadi Iraq it was the worst place in the world at the time and I knew that and

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I felt like my whole life had sort of been preparing me to be there in that position taking care of those guys to the best of my ability and going out and and sending them out to go and kill the enemy and supporting the conventional forces that were there that were unbelievably Brave and humble and just miraculously patriotic and we found the Brotherhood that you know to this day I don't think it'll ever be replaced and you can see why you know these stories of War stand the test of time and when we talked about the Peloponnesian Wars we talked about Warfare all time because there's there's something there and I think it's what you began with because it is the ultimate

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human test you know it's the ultimate it is other people are trying to kill you and you're trying to kill them and that's just the ultimate test and not that it's a great test or tests that everyone should want to have happen because it's it's awful and horrible and wretched in many ways but the same time it's there and its present and there is no avoiding it there is no avoiding it war is part of the world it's part of the human nature I know Dana White you know says fighting is in our DNA well you don't have to go but one or two degrees further from fist fighting to where you know tribes of human beings are trying to kill each other

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yeah it's one of the subjects have talked about with my friend Duncan we were we are going over this and we came to the conclusion that the history of the human race is a history of military Warfare mean when are you talk about the human race you talk about the Civil War you talk about World War II Korea Vietnam you talk about wars and in between those Wars people preparing for more war or trying to avoid war the Cold War in between Wars you know you talked about the the various conflicts throughout history with her it's Genghis Khan or whether it's Napoleon with that you're talkin my War mean almost all of our history has been trying to keep people from fucking with us and trying to take things that we think will help our people that's essentially the history of the human race yeah and I think what really strikes people and why there's an almost

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sick fascination with it in some ways is because there it's you know we say that combat is like life but Amplified and intensified so it's similar to regular life except for the consequences are obviously everything you know you can die. Can be the end of you and so when you're in that moment and when you read about that when people read these books or watch these movies they get some sense of what that must be like and I think that's why there is like I said some attraction to it and that's why I wore there's hundreds and hundreds of war movies and hundreds and hundreds of war books because people try and understand what that emotional content really means that there are no higher Stakes other than the loss of your loved ones in the grief that you would suffer because of that the lost your own life is about the high stake possible and when I talk to people like you or

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many of the other guys have talked to that have served and been involved in combat one of the craziest aspects of it is many want to be back there many you experience that life to end up to 11 and they they they were call it like it's the best time of their life there's no doubt about it that's time of my life no doubt about it she will not pressure knowing what was at stake and again for me in a leadership position you know everyone feels a little bit different from me in a leadership position you're not worried about yourself getting her killed you're worried about your guys getting her killed and that's the most important thing and the thing that's keeping you awake at night in the thing that's driving you and so

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there's an intensity there but having so much

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and so much at stake when it goes away

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it's definitely leaves a hollow empty space inside there's no doubt about it when you see it with Fighters with boxers MMA fighters when they retire they have a real hard time finding regular life to be fulfilling

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and I can only imagine with the way more intense because of War because the thing about fighting is it such a solitary sport you know you have your team behind you you have coaches you have guys that you prepare with you train with but once you're locked up inside that cage or you step inside that ring it's really all just about you the experience is yours when you're at War your experience is protecting all those around you as well as staying a lot and losing friends and thinking that you could have done something differently and maybe someone would still be here that's that's a completely different kind of thing to leave and to come back to regular civilization and then to watch all the shit that you did in Iraq go to pieces now you watch just fucking chaos over there now every day in the news that the weather it's the the civil war between the Sunni and the

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at work whether it's what's going on with Isis and it just seems like whatever gains that you guys made there are slowly being eroded every day does that also like to let you know yeah absolutely so we don't like I said we fought and when I say we I'm talking about a giant group of 5,000 6,000 Americans of the 118 huge group of awesome guys soldiers and Marines and we were apart of them and so we all fought very hard for the city like a city in America do you know it's got roads and houses and buildings it's a city like what we have in America and we went in there and fought to take this city back from these Savages that owned it at the time and why do I call them Savages it's because they

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tortured people be skinned people alive they beheaded people they raped little girls and little boys that was just disgusting and so we went in there and fought against them and beat them and what we did and doing that is the people that actually live there again this is a city with human beings in it and I always have to tell this story at least relate to people that you'd be running down the street there be guns firing around and you kick open the the door to a compound to somebody's house and you get in there and there be you know a guy a dad working on the car and there be two kids kicking a soccer ball and there be a mom cooking lunch and so there's people there and those people wanted us to be there and wanted us to defeat the insurgents that were terrorizing them and

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we did and they were joyous about that and so when you talk about what do I think now when I see Isis the black flag of Isis I mean is there any other more dramatic image then I could tell you then that the black flag of Isis now flies with the government center Ramada it's it's it's horrible and it's sickening and they went around and anybody that had anything to do with the Coalition there they went around with a list of names and they murdered all them and all their families and you know we

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we as a country

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we kind of left them hanging and it's it's horrible to see that we left them hanging and we instigated a lot of crazy shit we took Saddam Hussein out of power which is probably ultimately a good thing to get rid of that guy there's no question that he was a psychopath and his sons were evil Fox but in creating that vacuum like when the leadership is gone you you kind of have a responsibility to manage that area now is crazy as that sounds like people want to say we're not in the building we're not in the business of nation-building when we're not in the building process are the the the business of

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organizing or structuring a nation building a democracy out of one which did not have one ever but you kind of have to we'll look what we did in Germany and Japan yeah we're still in both those countries and guess what the 2-year would have to economic superpower is behind America you know I know those two are both in the top five German you had your up besides China but Japan those are economic superpower they're very successful countries and formulated their new structure

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now there's a lot of resistance in this country there always was a lot of resistance to going to Iraq in the first place cuz people didn't understand the connection between 911 and Iraq and it seemed like it was manufactured it seems like the people on this side that you know we're looking at it and we look at Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld and these chicken hawks that wanted us to go over there and why but once you're there you you kind of have to have a different approach don't you

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what is no doubt you have to have a different approach you have to believe in what you're doing it again when you're number one end and every every Soldier for marine or service member will tell you that when they're in combat they're not thinking about you know the Strategic National United States of America they're thinking about the guy that's next to him and what they're going to do to keep that keep their bodies alive and that's that's all there is to and that's true and anyone tell you that but that being said when you come back from that operation and you have time to think about what you're doing there then you got to believe in what you're doing and if you don't believe what you're doing and you can have some serious issues and so for me you know it was pretty obvious that what we were doing was

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was absolutely the right thing I mean you've got insurgence there that were foreign Fighters that want to kill everyone in America they hate us they want to destroy us if they want to do 911 over and over again in this country they want to kill us all and so for us to be there fighting them I totally on board and was on board and remain that way today at least insurgence that came into these places like rahmati and we're taking over the city and killing all these people and torturing all these people why were they doing that to them it's the same it's the same thing that Isis did when they went back and they want to have a chunk of land at the time they they said that ramadi was going to be the the seat of their caliphate's can be the capital city of that that's what they were trying to do so in a sense like once War start over there and became a holy war

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yes and it's a holy war but it's interesting because the people of Iraq was people in Iraq most people in Iraq when you talk to them they're normal people that want to have a job you know build a new addition on their house fix the roof get some good food for dinner that night raise their kids so they can take over the family business or whatever that's what they want their they're not a bunch of people running around doing what I was doing but who is the powerful force in you know when Iraq right now everyone's scared of Isis and and one thing about this is there you know because Iraq is

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they don't have this kind of patriotic feeling that we have in America which I know I know it may be dying and in many cases but there's a lot of Americans still believe America is the greatest country on Earth and that ain't even if you don't believe it's greatest country on Earth and even if you see it for all the all the faults that it has you appreciate the fact that in this country you have freedom and so you can kind of fight for that no matter what you're thinking about your you're fighting for Freedom you're fighting to protect your family while in Iraq there like okay

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I'll fight for whoever I'll fight for whoever or support whoever is it going to lie me to live

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but you didn't have the same attitude that's why when I just came in to Ramada in the Iraqi troops kind of ran away they're like well we don't know what's going to happen we don't really don't have that core belief that they're fighting for and so I think that's where some of the challenges come in and as they grow that they will they will perform better but it's definitely going to take you know quite a bit of time around September 11th right right after that happen you never saw more Flags mean I remember driving down the street and every car had a flag hanging from it no doubt about it to me and it was probably mine Jay London sold Flags that's what I used to do sell car flags flags you put on cars a good business going for a while but like a lot of things people got accustomed to it they got settled in and everything got back down to its normal level it's so so is his big buzz of patriotism

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well there's a big buzz of patriotism when you feel threatened and we never feel threatened in America everyone is driving around in a nice big SUV that can take miles to the gallon with big air condition blasting good looking at their iPhone texting people socially interacting through the through the Wi-Fi and they're not concerned about their safety and so we're not concerned about your safety what is there left to be patriotic will you don't understand what it means to live in fear so September 11th comes and you get attacked and you feel that fear guess what you rally around this this thing America that's protected you and your family but you didn't think about it before but now you're thinking about it and you go you know what I'mma put the flag up on my up on my vehicle this is people that I drive around and complete luxury which is what America is like America is unbelievably luxurious compared to the rest of the world it is also unquestionable evil involved and flying planes into buildings and killing civilians

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randomly and haphazardly suicide bombing essentially with a plane right into a building of all that was so evil that everybody just it was no there's no gray area in that it was pretty clear who's about as clear as any event ever in human history agree you found out I mean you are already involved in the military when all this was going on you signed up like long before they like you if there's anybody that I've ever met that I've ever heard talk about those this mean this is how you feel you're born for this this is this is your goal your post in life

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yes what what what pulled you into them you were you grew up in New England what part of Connecticut main okay so American General American what what was it that Drew you to it like where did you develop the sense of patriotism

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well I would say prior to the feeling of patriotism you know I like I said I was going to be some kind of a Commando and I would say that you when you join the military say people that are somewhat patriotic join the military but when you travel around the world and you're in the military that kind of confirms your patriotism more than anything else cuz you see what the rest of the world is like and how unbelievably Amazing America is in again does America have faults yeah America's got all kinds of faults there's all kinds of things that we could do better if there's things that we've done in the past that we shouldn't have done and there's things that will do in the future that we shouldn't have done but when you compare that with the rest of the world and how the rest of the world lives and what it means to be in an oppressed Society you know you you're extremely thankful to be in America this is once you've already been in the military and already start route to this is just you just had this draw towards it almost like your destiny

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to be in the military yeah yes that's it it's strange that just came out of nowhere like there was no like event in your life it just seems like this is just something that it was always you were always attracted to I mean running around the woods as a little kid with BB guns shooting each other and that seemed like a good job

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and it's funny you don't if you don't you don't grow up you know you don't you continue with your childhood you know play time for your whole adult life and it's awesome that's the best thing about the SEAL Teams as you get to do what you always wanted to do and they pay you money and you get unlimited ammunition unbelievably types of weapons and explosives you know grenades and they just give it all to you and he say get after it will they get excited when I find a guy like you we got it here we got a smart guy who was born to do this who's really looking forward to it like it's perfect I guess so I'm sure the recruiter was pretty fired up when you met me I would let me sign the paper and put that it's kind of it's even more intense because it's not just you get to play but only the strong get the play the week August we weeded out and

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is left is people of similar character that's what I found most fascinating I think that's one of the things that's so romantic in the Public's eye about the idea of the seals or Green Berets or Rangers people that is very difficult to get in there and only a select few have the intestinal fortitude the will power and the ability to lock onto a task and a goal and get through it yeah and then when you're in the SEAL Teams none of that means anything like all the training and all that selection process is it doesn't mean anything because you all deaths just a baseline of where everyone's at and so when people talk about this intense training when you're in the soup and you don't talk about that training that you go through to get out of the Baseline for everybody and it's just to make sure that you're not a pussy just exactly who you are 44 years old you're still getting up at 4 in the morning doing deadlifts and never left you

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going to visit is not going to

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so you you get through once you get through the intensity of buds and you you get through you know all the people are going to quit and you get through all the training what is life like from there on out like how structured is like training and physical activity and things like that from there on out you know again being in the Seal team is awesome it's such a fun job that I literally didn't consider it a job except for maybe 13 months out of my career 13 months I worked for the directly for the animal that was in charge of all the seals and he's a great guy and I learned tan from him and from having that job but it wasn't fun job and even he would tell you it's not a fun job you know you've got a uniform every day and in the regular SEAL Teams you're you're wearing a pair of shorts and you're barely wearing a shirt cuz you're out there in the in the field or get ready to go in the field

► 00:39:46

temperature it's a great life when you're constantly training you're hanging out with a bunch of guys that are pretty much have the same attitude as you for the most part there's a couple guys that don't cut it and there's some guys that are super studs and you're doing your best to emulate them but you're hanging out with a bunch of great guys and you know when I was a young seal we'd get to Friday and we know go out have a beer we get done Saturday we still go to work Sunday we still going to work we go workout we hang out we work on our dear we get ready there's even not even a war going on we were just into it if we were just fired up for the SEAL Teams and that was so it's a it's a great life and then once the war started the intensity definitely picked up because you know everybody knew that we were going into combat

► 00:40:31

and everyone pushed that much harder that being said back in the 90s we used to train really really hard because it was an unknown element know there was an unknown element where you didn't know what was really going to do know what combat was really like so you trained as hard as you possibly could figure out how to train we trained and then wants combat started and we like okay well we kind of know what we're doing right now if you like a fighter going to a camp if he's never fought in the UFC before he's going to train super hard to make his debut but maybe after he wins really easily as first couple fights maybe he backs off on that training camp a little bit not that we did that but it definitely mentally was there to push hard even before combat so you just say Century saying that even before you were going to war you were going to be ready you what you were you were going to make sure that you got all your boxes check to get all your ducks in a row a hundred percent how much physical training is there once you're actually deployed

► 00:41:29

it depends on where you are and what you're doing you know what kind of what type of missions are going on but even the SEAL Teams is a very physical job and everyone expects that I can your gear and go out and move and shoot and communicate that's the Baseline everyone's expect you to do it whatever you have to do to to make that happen it is is kind of on you although we do you know teen booty call PT physical training in PT but a lot of it is on you as an individual or your smaller element you know group of guys and that's how you you got to you got to stay in shape you do not want to be the guy that you know that Carrie is carries weight that's just you'll get your get kicked out so it's but it's not structure it is not organized like say if you're deployed in Iraq what I was getting at was wondering if I would imagine that's the type of workouts that you do and chin-ups and running up hills if you had to go to war

► 00:42:29

right after a hard workout like that it's going to take something out of you yet you've got to you got to use common sense how do you know like when to stay in shape or what to do yet you're you're you're not going to do like a massive squat workout while you're on deployment that's going to put you in her tried for three or four days it's is not smart you know you're going to it's like a Pavel you know the Pavel Datsyuk yeah you know he kind of I heard that from him years and years ago you know cuz he's training some SWAT guys up in LA and I talked to some of those guys and they said you know well don't you don't need to go to exhaustion to get stronger so let's try that and so you know you got to be ready to operate that your primary Mission you got to be ready to go out on the battlefield and get after it's you're not going to cross yourself so hard that you're incapacitated yeah he's not a guy that believes in going to failure right he's got some interesting doesn't ideas some follower from just one of those things I heard

► 00:43:29

on the way yeah I mean there's a lot of different philosophies when it comes to training but when so when you're deployed it's essentially all entirely on you other than the other group organized PT trainings just about you just so you guys get together and say hey we're going to go running or we're going to lift today are we going to

► 00:43:49

go do some pull-ups what about martial arts training how much martial arts training is involved again that depends on you know what the situation is and who you're working with you know if

► 00:44:00

if you were a junior officer that was working for me then you were going to betray and Jiu-Jitsu all the time. I got so when you did that would you take guys and teach him some basic stuff and then just choked the shit out of him cuz that's pretty much what you're doing it like defend get your appointment and Come Back Inn you know some guy that maybe I was having good battles with before I left to come back and be better cuz you're going to work on really good offense against a bunch of strong you know psycho seals I don't want to tap and you got to make it work so you don't come back in and be better I wouldn't I wouldn't get worse on deployment that's for sure that's Eddie Bravo's theory he believes that the Rick the real way to get better is not the train with you a better than you but to trade with people that aren't as good as you and just constantly drill

► 00:45:00

it's over and over and over again sharpen them up like a samurai sword and then when you do spar with people that are your level or better you'll be much better just because you're constantly used to finishing yeah and I think there's a combination of both you got to train your people at a better than you got to train with people that are worse than you and you don't we do that SEAL training to where does the Seal training that ran before I got out was not like the Seal training Ricci with the guys with the the the logs carrying those around their boats and head back like I said that's the basic training and and no one really cares too much about that once again this year things because it's just over it's just a smash you in the beginning smash you make sure like you said make sure that you you're not a pussy exactly have the intestinal fortitude then you go through something called a war cup and that's when you've got to see opportunities that are trying to work together and we do crazy simulated Combat on these guys that is awesome I mean it's it's devastating and you have paintball

► 00:45:59

against is like little kids stuff right you get to get awesome paintball guns unlimited paintball rounds we had this this like the best laser tag system that anyone could ever imagine this crazy expensive laser tag system where you could go out and fight each other with laser tag and when you're getting shot at if the rounds weren't theoretically hitting you than there was a little speaker on your shoulder that would make noises as if rounds were going over your head so that you would know to get down and there be explosions going off on these little speakers and then when you get back from these training operations that although they have embedded GPS is in them so you put it out on Google Earth and you can watch the whole battle unfold and watch what people did right and wrong and my point in this is that sometimes many times especially the beginning when the seals weren't quite up to speed yet I didn't know how to work together that well three or four or five opposing Force seal so he's our guys are pretending to be bad guys they would kill them

► 00:46:59

babies drop their murder them all and as these guys got better and started to work together and the leadership started to step up and take command in and do a better job of leading then all the sudden the seals would start to beat the opposing force and annihilate them incredible tool to learn how to organize and did to stay together and work together as a team that would things to do in the past well that's that's a very interesting topic because it's a very similar to you know what the UFC did the martial arts because you know as you know in 1991 you know you and I could sit here and talk and you could be a Kung Fu guy and I could be Nike toe guy and we could be like no my martial arts better and you could be saying the same thing and we we could theoretically debate it all day long but we've never actually do it

► 00:47:46

and it's difference in combat obviously you can't you know we can't say okay let's find out which one's better and we're on the same team we're going to kill each other find out you can't do that so the first thing that happened with simunition and that's you know they basically Star paintball but it's high speed paintball that you know fits in your real gun if it's in a real. It's real bad so you take your you put a new Barrel on your your standard-issue weapon and now you're shooting paintballs out of your real gone yet Thirty rounds and change magazines like very very similar to real Combat and all the sudden just like a punching bag you know when people say old punching bag doesn't punch back when you going to a into a house and you shoot a bunch of paper targets they don't move they don't you back so it's you know guess what you win every single time I can get pretty confident with your tactics for your tactics aren't getting tested and so when will Wendy's great Technologies, came out simunition paintball and these laser type systems it was a it was complete change and we definitely change our tactics are tactics evolve just like fight tactix involved with the

► 00:48:46

with the Advent of the UFC in people's head out this doesn't work the way we thought it did and you know this idea of what we're going to go running into a room and no one's going to stop no matter what no actually if there's a machine gun just laying paint Interiors you go in you're stupid if you go run into that room so it may be simple adjustments but it was an interesting progression and it definitely imprinted the fact that you have to make your training as realistic as possible and also it also shows you how people humans have a tendency to believe in what they're doing just because it's kind of what they believe in and you know again I think those those traditional martial arts that were so popular you know back in the day people truly believe that like no I will actually stop you with you know with my chi chi chi will stop you and they they really thought that I had one of my Jiu-Jitsu buddies was you know they had some Chi guy in 1995 like you cannot take me down and he said bully mean and he said no. I once I settle my cheek

► 00:49:47

you cannot take me down and he said well okay settle your do you want to try in the guys like sure you can try all you want so the guy you know stands there and settles is she out and my buddy goes are you ready I said yeah and he just like double eggs in a lot of stuff that we need to watch out for the belief is based on in a being targeted by people who also believed it too and it's it's so confusing because no one's experience didn't in real life which was the initial question was when they used to prepare like back in Vietnam War you know do it during the the first invented the first Gulf War barely barely very small groups had it you know not not as many as shit they have the laser setup and everything I know we can get the

► 00:50:47

what did they used to do like during the Vietnam era

► 00:50:51

he go off the experience of guys that have been in World War II and Korea to try and pass out on and luckily and honestly you know being in combat the basic principles of combat are not the super crazy complex things you know the most basic principle that that we talked about is covering move we just hit you and I are going to go I sold the building over there to take copper how many gauge that building so that the enemy can't put their heads up and while I'm shooting at the building shooting where we think the enemy are you going to get up and maneuver into a better position once you get into a better position and you get some cover you're going to start shooting at the end and that's going to allow me to move once I get to a better position I'll start shooting again and will continue to do that supporting each other as we move to retarded and then once we get there we'll kill the bad guys and that's the most basic principle but there's times where before you in between Vietnam which is where we had major combat and people learn that cover moving

► 00:51:51

number of people at taught me cover Move in between that time and the time we started using simunition in the end the laser the better products we actually forgot some of those lessons as crazy as that might seem actually forgot some of these very simple basic lessons of gunfighting and so it was great to have it back and it was you know when we when we went to combat finally we were more prepared for it would imagine that kind of simulation you can call it simunition that's that's an actual name brand and all kinds of name-brand and it's the paint so send me that she's a pain in their the laser what is the name brand of that stuff the one that we used was called debts and it was made by sob and I don't know I don't even know if they still make it or if that contract still going but it was awesome I like your analogy to martial arts like testing it in in the end of the actual competition because it's it would seem that that would be the only way that anybody would ever actually

► 00:52:51

what mistakes not to make and how they could easily be replicated in combat and then the repeated actions of doing those over and over again and Engraving them in your mind is probably the only thing that could really you could drop on when you're in those intense situations of an actual firefight yeah there's another good comparison I don't know if you've ever heard somebody kind of say this but you don't say like what's a I train some Kung Fu stuff where I'm liking my attacker and I rip your throat out and all that stuff and you train you know Jiu Jitsu Muay Thai wrestling and boxing night so people will say that you're not ready for the fact that I'm going to poke your eyes out or you're not ready for the fact that I'm going to try and grab your throat or whatever and therefore I have an advantage and it and that you have some kind of a training scar

► 00:53:40

because you aren't used to doing that assume saying so if like I said if all I do is trained to grab your eyes and poke your throat or whatever pressure point type attack then that means that I'm better prepared for a street conflict

► 00:53:59

and as you and I both know like a guy that does that versus a guy that trains in mixed martial arts boxing wrestling boy tie Jujitsu that guy's going to destroy this other person in the street and I will grab for his eyes and then you can use arm broken off in his me to punch that 47 times but my point and tell him that that is that this we had the same type of people in inside the SEAL Teams that said so if you get used to training with paintball then you're going to develop training scars from it so you're not going to be used to your regular weapon you're not going to be used to The Recoil of a real gun and you're going to have more courage because it's only going against paint and wall that while there's some small piece of Truth to that just like there's some small piece of Truth to the fact that if you never think about what it's like to be punched while you're doing Jiu-Jitsu will then it's going to be a surprise for you the first time you you are in Garba someone that crack you in the face

► 00:54:59

there's some small truth but it's not a reason to throw out you know that type of training it just doesn't make sense and the other thing is good about it is you know in Jiu-Jitsu & Muay Thai boxing wrestling you're going live against another human being that's maneuvering on you and trying to defeat you and when you have paintball or laser you're going against another human being is trying to maneuver on you and defeat you so therefore It's very effective in in teaching what real Combat you like what was it like the first time you were deployed and when was that for some reason for it in 2003 and deployed to Baghdad Iraq and it was great

► 00:55:37

that's not what most people would think of it would never think of that that word it's very it what was interesting about my first appointment to Iraq was that again I was so happy to be that you know in a position where I was up to Commander and we were doing real missions and I was excited and happy about that and you know that it means I'll run around smile on my face we get a legit job and we had to get it done

► 00:56:08

it was also a time where the the insurgents it was an Insurgency we ain't even really heard that word in 2003 and so the operations that we did were relatively simple

► 00:56:22

and our tactical advantage over the enemy was good enough that we just annihilated them you know it was like it was like an unfair fight which is how you wanted to bet you want to have an unfair fight in combat can we go in you know 2 in the morning we find out where a bad guy was in some house or some office or some building and we load up our vehicles go in the middle of the night blast their door open with big explosive breaching charge clear their house in about 30 seconds grab them grab their buddies bring them all back interrogate and find out where the friends are and go out and do it again and was awesome and was awesome and it was like a rockstar deployment we come home at 3 in the morning and be done and debrief the operation and get ready to do it the next day we probably were in four or five fire fights during the whole deployment

► 00:57:15

couple ambushes and I have one guy get get wounded not very bad so it was it was it was fun it was good and we were ready for it and

► 00:57:32

the contrast comes when you go to my next appointment the next appointment to ramadi which was

► 00:57:39

completely different and

► 00:57:43

on that deployment

► 00:57:46

everything bad that can happen

► 00:57:52


► 00:57:55

a guy in a leadership position or an element happened to us everything bad that could happen happened and so it was it was radically different than my first appointment so your first deployment was in a sense a lot like what people expected the war to go like after weed experience Desert Storm Desert Storm which was just its overwhelming success just the only casualties were when that one scud missile had his barracks and it was just that was what America thought war was like well this is how good we are at it right now we just go over there and we kill everybody and we lose it a couple people and real sad about that but we wrapped it up tight

► 00:58:41

so your second appointment

► 00:58:45

what was that like and how did it begin

► 00:58:50

well it began with our deployment orders changing so we were literally two weeks from going on deployment so now my first deployment to Iraq I was what's called a platoon Commander I had 15 or 20 guys underneath me depending on what time during deployment was and we were an assault Force we were like we we jokingly called ourselves Baghdad squat because that's where you at I just kind of describe what those missions were like my second appointment now I was what's called a task unit commander and I had two of those seal Petit platoons with 15 to 20 guys that were underneath me and then we had another

► 00:59:31

7060 or 70 support Personnel so these are people that do in tell people that man the radios people that clean and repair our weapons and people that keep the camp running all that so it's it's it's about a hundred guys but there's only 35 or 40 seals and we found out about two weeks before we went on deployment our deployment changed instead of going to Baghdad and really doing more bag that's what operations we went we were told we were going to ramadi and I was again

► 01:00:06

and people always say you know why I can't believe you fought that and I can't believe how twisted you are and I can't believe what a sick individual you are and excetera excetera excetera but yes I was extremely happy and motivated that we were going to Ramada because it was the worst place in Iraq and that is exactly what I wanted to be my whole life so yes I was fired up to go there

► 01:00:24

just so crazy that it's so counter-intuitive to the most people think

► 01:00:32

I guess so and I hung around with a bunch of guys that fought the same damn thing as me let's go get these guys let's get after it

► 01:00:39

well that's why you are who you are I mean that's what that's why it's important to have people like you in the world like it is a spectrum of human beings there is no extreme edge of exactly what you want when you have an army have you put together a military force you want a guy like you that has that attitude you don't want a guy who's going to the worst place in the world that sang why me what the fuc why did not become a baker like my dad I could be making cupcakes right now instead of shooting people yeah yeah I know you and then end the SEAL Teams and the Rangers and the Special Forces does a very good job of of attracting the type of people that you're talking about the type of people that are fired up to do that job they're good not encouraging it in an ingrowing it but it seems like the amount of camaraderie and the intensity of

► 01:01:39

the friendships in the bond the Brotherhood that you develop but those people just intensifies at all yeah it's a big gang it's a big it's a big awesome gang that you're a part of that bad ass and you're part of this fraternity this Brotherhood so yeah it did definitely fuel the fire in and I should say they feel the fire we feel the fire we are we are the fire you know the guys that are there the guys that I work with their their the fired-up guys that are completely ready to do this job so you get over there in ramadi totally different situation in Baghdad totally different situation in back

► 01:02:24

immediately we were

► 01:02:27

going I mean I think I think we went to the first memorial service for an American within you know 24 hours of being on the ground there we might Mike my Camp got attacked the I don't know maybe the third or fourth night that we were there every guy was on the roof of our building shooting back at bad guys that were shooting at us

► 01:02:50

it was an antenna we started conducting operations almost immediately and the operations were just just radically different I mean the enemy owned the downtown area for Maudie the dominant Force down there so whereas before you be going through kind of semi permissive environment and Baghdad meaning you know that it's a it's a bunch of civilians and they just want to get out of your way and then you go and find this bad guy in ramadi the bad guys were going to find you and it was different and they were everywhere train them

► 01:03:28

some of them were former regime elements so some of them were in ramadi was was Iraqi military city as well so there's some of them left over but actually a bunch of them left over and then you had syrians coming in foreign Fighters people coming in from all over Saudi Arabia Jordan I mean they coming from all over the place to to come and Gage and get their Jihad on you because America was now occupying Iraq is that what was was driving them I think more than the fact that that America was occupying Iraq is that they wanted to take that land I mean America with no longer occupying Iraq when they went in and took ramadi this time we were gone we've been gone for four years so the occupation of Iraq was not the driving force behind this so once you get there and once you realize right away it's different your experience in casualties at 11 that was unheard of in Baghdad and you are engaging with an enemy that's very

► 01:04:28

prepared and overwhelming they're everywhere and they did they were similar to us meaning they did like a first world country type stuff they had metal medical evacuation plan to one of their guys would get wounded you seem get evacuated then we can watch on on the screens you can watch it was happening a vehicle to come in and gather them up and take movie guys away they bringing reinforcements they had Communications they did fire maneuver they did you know the same basic doctor said I was talking about they did those tactics as well and so it was a real well trained and well-coordinated and determined enemy was the suspected well we we knew what ramadi was like but I would say

► 01:05:16

it was expected

► 01:05:18

but he it's hard to mentally picture what that's going to be like when you when you're going to bump up against guys that are that prepared and

► 01:05:31

as far as like that the strategy that was involved to try to take a city like that this was a fairly new experience for the United States military right we've never had what other what Somalia like what other Urban War had the United States engaged in like this where you're in a city well I mean obviously World War II at all kinds of non there was portions end of the battle of way switch way city was a huge urban conflict Somalia was definitely Urban combat but you're right in the fact that we weren't going in there to try and stay and that was one of the biggest differences or changes in strategies that the US military had

► 01:06:14

that turns the war around and that was as the as the insurgents grew and it's 2004-2005 users and started getting more and more unified and better and more well-trained and more organized in America what we did was kind of go back to our strong bases list bases in Iraq 2005-2006 if you went to a base in let's say Baghdad International Airport there's a huge US military base There Was You Know Subway the sandwich shop Subway Starbucks these places to become little little outcroppings of America and so what we did when insurgents got worse and worse and worse and also the public opinion in the war went down and down and down all the sun was in there cuz we're not going to minimize casualties as much as possible so does that mean you do you go back to your base and we we did

► 01:07:14

as a country we kind of said okay we're not going to take huge risks anymore going to pull back to our bases want to try and support the Iraq he's as much as we can

► 01:07:21

and let them go out and trying to competitions and we still did do missions but we definitely had

► 01:07:29

strong new back of these big bases well

► 01:07:35

there was a guy there was several people one of them was General Petraeus he wrote this you know the counter Insurgency man was out now what you had was you went from this idea we're fighting kind of terrorist and I don't listen you're fighting an organized Insurgency that was a huge strategy strategic shift and so now instead of going out and back grab a gun and coming back the the the new strategy and it was implemented in ramadi by guy named Colonel Shawn McFarland was seized clear holding build which means you're going to go into these enemy controlled neighborhoods you can take buildings you're going to hold those buildings you can build them into your own Forts and you're going to have American and Iraqi soldiers live in those enemy controlled territories until the enemy was gone before implemented in Calif are in Northern Iraq by a guy named hchc McMaster was another kind of legendary military army colonel at the time all these guys are generals now

► 01:08:35

because they're awesome guys he didn't plan it up there he actually turn that plan over to General McFarland and Jen McFarland came down to rahmati and implemented the plan there but what was

► 01:08:47

what was poured understand is no one really knew about this no one understood it all they all they said was oh my God wait a second you're saying we're going to go into these enemy control neighborhoods were where they haven't been American or Coalition forces for a year-and-a-half to two years you're saying where to go in there right before we arrive in ramadi there was a road that the Marine Corps tried to penetrate down the hit 13 IDs and 500 to 13390 Vinson 500 so essentially what is 500m is like that every 15 metres or so little less than 50 come alive foot five football fields that's insane that is wow so so this new strategy to go in there and push in there was considered to be by many people was considered to be too risky

► 01:09:39

too dangerous and and really in some cases crazy like this is a crazy strategy we haven't been able to get down there and now you're saying we go down there and live there so it was it was very Dynamic change so this is a gigantic greedy boots-on-the-ground approach to taking over a city like one step at a time one building at a time that's it wow

► 01:10:05

got done how to be insane

► 01:10:08

yeah there any documentary footage of this were there an embedded journalists there where they're embedded journalists you know you can go on YouTube and Just Google Ramada 2006 and you'll you'll see some good stuff there's a documentary that came out I think was on the History Channel it's called a chance in hell the battle for ramadi and that what's good about that one is it interviews a lot of guys that we work with while we were there in what I was just trying to convey to you about the fact that

► 01:10:37

a lot of people were saying this was a suicidal operation you can hear these guys that were officers in charge of Italians and Company's they're saying the same thing they're they're getting told by their peers like this is a crazy idea and you guys are all going to die if you go in there wow know what is morale like when something like that gets brought down when these are the orders and this is what you have to do and everyone's telling you it's a suicide mission

► 01:11:05

well that's that's where leadership comes in because you know one of the one of the toughest things that I ever had to convey to my guys was this fact that we were going to be working alongside Iraqi soldiers conventional Iraqi sort of see picture this we talked about we were we were only working with seals I mean we work seals the guide you left your right was he the guy behind you as a seal upon to trust in you could trust them you knew they were they were your brothers

► 01:11:36

so now we get to ramadi and the mission change coming down from the Special Operations forces that were in charge of of all Special Operations in Iraq and the new the new mission was to

► 01:11:51

it was a new Mission I'm trying to take of the exact was to train and fight company and platoon sized elements of Iraqi soldiers train and fight company between size elements Barracks was when they say fight that means like that's a verb saying we're going to fight with them

► 01:12:08

show all the sudden I'm telling my guys hey you know you're used to working with a bunch of seals you're going to now when you go out the majority of the guys are going to be with our Iraqi soldiers that's the majority guess now Iraqi soldiers are

► 01:12:23

they're their there they're barely even military I mean people they're just unmotivated poorly-trained in fact in many cases their loyalty is question that would shoot Americans in the back

► 01:12:39

so now I'm telling my guys are figuring to go out there and do this and obviously the first reaction I got was this this crap is garbage why would we ever do that this the worst Battlefield seals fought on since Vietnam and you want us to go out there with a bunch of a bunch of Iraqi soldiers watching our back that's crazy and and when I heard it I thought it was crazy too

► 01:13:06

so what are you doing what what are you do that you're going to send your guys In Harm's Way in a much more

► 01:13:14

vulnerable way and you got to get them to do it so first of all I had to understand what we're doing in my own mind I had to understand why I understand why would somebody be telling us to do this cuz it seems freaking crazy to me

► 01:13:31

so as I sat there and thought about it

► 01:13:34

I realize you're wondering why is why is the present making us do this why is the general the why is the Pentagon making us do this why are the generals and Colonels on the battlefield here in Iraq why in God's name would they be making us go out with Iraqi soldiers it's crazy and I thought to myself while KY let's answer that question oh news flash if we don't do it if we don't get the Iraqi soldiers trained up and ready to maintain Security in their own country than who's going to do it who's going to do it and furthermore who's going to hold the security in our country and nobody in the answer was us the answer was we would be here forever because these are a kid need to be able to get up and stand on their own two feet and so when I explained that to my guys like hey I know you don't want to work I understand I understand there's more risk here's why we're doing it we're doing it because if we don't do it if we don't get these guys up to speed if we don't teach them how to defend themselves and how to defeat this this enemy

► 01:14:34

they're never going to be able to do it and we'll be mired in this conflict forever and once once they understood that strategic picture they were able to get their head around it and then slowly accepting what we were doing how common were there complications dealing with the Iraqi soldiers and did you guys have to take steps in order to to watch over them to make sure me you talking about guys shooting guys in the back shooting America to the back did you have plans in place to make sure that someone was watching them at all times like she didn't you couldn't treat them like they did some of that they speak English I know we have interpreters Nightmare and we would have some of the Iraqi soldiers some of the some of the leadership of the Iraqi soldiers would be very good some of the grunts would be very good and someone will be get disastrous and do we have to change they didn't we had to change our tactics so that we didn't use the terms left in

► 01:15:34

because I didn't understand left and right or or no numbers a lot of them couldn't count I mean it was too couldn't down so the totally uneducated totally uneducated holy shit go four doors down

► 01:15:51

show me guitar 5 year olds

► 01:15:55

wow so so that was that was definitely challenging for somebody that combats so convinced you know atrocities against human beings you know some of that rapes an eight-year-old girl like they're doing some wholesale doing that in Isis is doing that right now that's part of their gig yeah I retire I reserve the term savages for them so what steps did you guys have to take to ensure that the seals and the other American soldiers were protected in working with these people, just have to keep your eye on them I mean it in and honestly at this point the

► 01:16:38

you saw this this happened a lot more in Afghanistan which was the what were they called they called

► 01:16:48

I forget what the dab a term for it but window when the friendly allegedly friendly Afghan Soldier turns and shoot them from the back that happened more later in Afghanistan and when we were in Iraq it was pretty seldom that it happened but we just had to be aware of it we had to you know you always had a guy that was like 2 stats standing off the firing line and making sure that no one was you know your weapon out in a minute at Americans so that was a job yeah we just keep an eye on these guys you absolutely had to keep an eye on what a crazy added element and the other I mean and just again cuz of dichotomy and everything at the same time you have some guy that was you know some Iraqi soldier that was willing to take a bullet for your body and so it's that's what makes War so complex and confusing as it's not cut and dried and never is so how did it start panning out once you started this seize or hold on hold and build

► 01:17:43

it was a tough fight basically with every one of these combat Outpost this we ended up what they ended up calling these combat Outpost every one of them was a pretty I'm pretty tough fight to River fight their buildings there, topics about a ten-story buildings most of them work two or three stories two or three stories and so you set up a perimeter around the building key people stationed in them guns at the windows looking out constantly and it would be we take the building down and then they would do a massive construction projects in the middle of a combat zone so these Army Engineers God bless them all would roll down there with their bulldozers and there they put these big concrete barriers up and they put sandbags and all the windows and they build Machine Gun Nest on top and getting there doing this in the middle of like Mayhem wow and then you have this secure combat Outpost in wall they were doing that this is sort of was our our addition to this type of operation was while they were doing this big construction progress

► 01:18:43

project obviously the situation was very vulnerable for the American forces and so what we would do is I would push our seals

► 01:18:52

out into perimeter buildings that were made out of 200 or 300 yards away and so when the enemy would come to attack we kill him crazy scene that must have been to be taking these buildings and then reinforcing them in the turning them in the military bases and the one after all those you doing this to a good number we put in one combat Outpost and there was the Army Engineers put in 30000 sandbags in one come help us like three buildings just all good things on a sand out there about it no doubt about it and so how many buildings did you guys wind up taking over all

► 01:19:35

probably probably a total of like 10 combat Outpost each one having to three or four buildings and again let me clarify when I say we I'm talking about this massive effort of the 11 ad which is the the 1st Brigade 1st Armored Division and all the battalions that were underneath them including one Marine Corps Battalion and the reason I'm on point that out Joe is

► 01:19:59

does Kaiser just unbelievable your us they really were they were awesome

► 01:20:04

you choked up

► 01:20:08

yeah these guys were these guys were awesome

► 01:20:11

it really wore

► 01:20:16

I can only imagine the emotional attachment that you have to that

► 01:20:23

yeah and you know that you know you can look you can Google Navy Seals and find you know 20 million news stories about him that's great but these guys do noted to have seen them kids you know cuz you know you're talking about earlier how do seals you know guys like me this is what we want to do well these guys didn't all necessarily have that attitude and as a matter of fact the guys that were in ramadi with us when we first got there they were reserve unit out of Pennsylvania the 228 iron soldiers they were reservist these guys were teachers that like like what you see when they talk about these reserve a seat guide for teachers and professors in Bakers and they had real jobs in real-world want to get home to their family and yet they were there grinding it out against a hardened enemy and so

► 01:21:23

yeah it's it's it's a it's a it's a crazy thing to see you and it's it's a very humbling to be around people like that it really is how long did this battle go on the battle for ramadi

► 01:21:38

well we got there. Like I said the 228 had been there for 14 months 14 months on the ground wasp around a hundred guys I think 94 and then the one one ad came in in May

► 01:21:56

and implemented

► 01:21:58

secret holding build in by the time I left October 21st 2006 and by-the-by January of 2007 the battle was foremost for the most part over and he's enemy attacks that have been when we were there for 30 to 50 a day went down to like one day and then one week in one month

► 01:22:24

and an event you know I have pictures of

► 01:22:28

probably about six to nine months after we left we got pictures that guy sent back to us if they were running road races down the worst what were the worst Aries Armada they were playing soccer games there was people out in the streets there was guys SEALS or Nazi Rosebud Soldiers with no body armor on just walking around meeting people it was a it was a miraculous turnaround and the people of ramadi that we had bought the support and help were more joyous and were they had a stable city to live in and we're getting ready to carry on with their lives stories like this get left out of the mainstream Narrative of course they do most people me included just don't know about it aren't aware of it have a very insulated idea of what this war was about what happened over there and what are the pros and cons of this war

► 01:23:23

what are the pros and cons of taking a city like this and turning into a relatively safe place Detroit wow and it was a it was a complete turnaround and again you do that you can do that because the people there wanted to be stable they wanted that they wanted peace and they wanted freedom and they wanted insurgents out absolutely want the insurgents out do you think that most people in America have a distorted perception of of the military in general and of the Iraq War in particular

► 01:23:59

I think it's hard for me to give a perspective of what civilians think you know right it's it's very difficult because you know it's really easy to slip into like just a straight John Jay Rambo you know there are no friendly civilians but it definitely would I hear various you know people talking and you go that's person has no idea this person is no idea it's weird because they'll Clump the people of Iraq though Clump those people together as a group and it's the wrong baby wrong impression with those people are like you know and have been to Iraq and gone to the house and talk to the populace there and broke and drink their tea you like these people definitely wanted us there when I hear this thing about no

► 01:24:58

they would cheer like thank you thank you for killing that person he was a terrorist and he was you know trying to try to rape my daughter they were happy we were there

► 01:25:09

what is ramadi like now that's been overrun by ISIS there they keep saying now that there is going to be an effort by the Iraqi military to take it back and God bless him and good luck they would have to do the exact same thing they're going to do the exact same thing it's going to be it's going to be tough without the United States military force backing them up and leaving something like that do you think that's even possible it's going to be difficult it is possible but it is absolutely going to be difficult to see me very difficult that's one of the things that again you know on leadership

► 01:25:50

leadership is such an important thing it's such an important thing because it really does change it changes every variable in a situation and so when you have good leaders you can win and I don't know who in particular is in charge of this Iraqi Force that's going in there there Rockies have some very strong leadership and if they've got the right person in position they they will be able to take it back now

► 01:26:23

America had absolutely has incredible military leaders some incredible military leaders and when you when you have to step up and lead a result like that on the city I mean American leadership would be would absolutely make a change and would be extremely positive for the situation on the ground that America should go back into Iraq

► 01:26:53

well first of all we're already back in the Iraq war on the ground we got 3500 troops there this is a and I hate to answer your blunt question with a philosophical answer

► 01:27:05

but war is

► 01:27:12

very difficult and very tragic and very evil in its own right

► 01:27:19

and so

► 01:27:22

you should be very very cautious about pulling that trigger and initiating a war

► 01:27:31

because horrible things are going to happen horrible things are going to happen

► 01:27:38

and we are going to be killed

► 01:27:41

friendly are going to be killed Americans are going to killed civilians are going to be killed this idea that we're going to go into a A Worn Urban environment and we're not going to kill any civilians no civilians are going to die and you have to understand that

► 01:27:57

and I talk about this when people ask me this question

► 01:28:02

there is two types of will

► 01:28:05

that you have to have if you're going to go to war two types of will

► 01:28:11

one is the will to kill people

► 01:28:15

and like I said it's going to be enemy and you're going to focus as much as you can on killing the enemy

► 01:28:21

and some civilians are going to die that is what is going to happen and you have to understand that that is part of what you are getting into

► 01:28:31

so you have to have you have to have the will to kill

► 01:28:36


► 01:28:39

you also have to have the will to die because Americans are going to die and young men are going to come home and coffins and that's a horrible thing

► 01:29:00

and so if you're going to go to war

► 01:29:05

you should be going to war

► 01:29:09

with a Clear Vision

► 01:29:13

to win to win

► 01:29:18

and I think if we have the will and we have a plan on on winning then we should we should execute that plan what if we're hesitant and if we don't have the will

► 01:29:37

then we should stand by until we develop that will and we can sit outside and we can shape and we can we can try and shape events which we should we should have a leadership role in the world we should be looking out for American interests I know that sounds like taboo language in this day and age but

► 01:29:57

we're America and we should look out for American interests around the world that's what we should be doing and there's nothing wrong with that that's what other countries are doing they're looking out for their interests and when we were all looking out for our own interest there's a balance and things can move forward

► 01:30:17

so you think right now with the the limited amount of troops that are in Iraq it's so you said 3500 now had went boo is it at the height

► 01:30:28

are over a hundred thousand I mean at the Hyatt probably even close to 200,000 what would it take to develop that will that you talk on do you think that the United States needs to see some other Paris like event

► 01:30:44

I mean we already had September 11th big killed 3,000 for people on our home soil but that was 14 years ago and for a lot of people that might as well be another world true true

► 01:31:02

I got to ask the other day about the warning signs you do what are we paying enough attention to the warning signs or are there enough warning signs in it and I I just I kind of shake my head I mean what more warning signs do you need then go to watch YouTube videos and they're like we are coming to kill you we are going to destroy you all that what that's the one that right there the warning has been issued Sand by for people like me they're completely on the outside of the military it seems like Isis came out of nowhere it seems like once Arab Spring started happening we start pulling out of Iraq also you start hearing about the is L or is or Isis very they use the term is I which was which was Ice Atomic State Iraq they use that and I think 2007 was the first time they use that as they start to take your area over in

► 01:32:03

Syria Dave through the L on the end of it you know which is Lavonne which is the historical name for that that region and the other one is Syria the asses is so it's the same people it's the same people that were there and will continue to be there until we're out about what I was getting at was at it wasn't something than anybody here had heard about as an organized thing we had heard about insurgents in Iraq but we have never heard of it in the internet like with a name like a guy says so I can now that it's a name it's like an identifiable enemy and when you're in a war against terrorism one of the things that I think kind of freaks Americans out especially those that don't have a connection with the military is this idea of a war against terrorism is this open-ended proposition there's no enemy you know like the there's no there's no definitive end to this like when Japan surrendered world war was over

► 01:33:03

the street that iconic image of the the sailor kissing his girlfriend in the street that we didn't that none of that happened for us in this country there was no definitive ending and when we pulled out of Iraq and we're planning on pulling out of Afghanistan and then we see Isis build up and get bigger and stronger and scary and we see what happened in Paris and we see what happened in Lebanon and in Nigeria and we see these terrorist attacks more like when is is this is there ever going to be a point but we haven't a soldier and his girlfriend kissing in the street is there going to be an aunt is there going to be a confetti blowing in the main street in a parade doesn't seem like it just meant that it doesn't seem like it

► 01:33:54

we got a long fight you know any and you asked we know where did ISIS how do we start hearing about him well the same thing we were talking about earlier social media yeah they've got social media they're aiming it at you know disenchanted people all around the world that can cling onto something that will give them some sort of identity yeah that's one of the most bizarre things about this when you see people like these young girls from the UK joining Isis and another escaping their country and then going over there and joining Isis like what what is happening here like how disenchanted do you have to be aware that looks attractive to you download the two girls I'm sure you saw a poster girls for Isis one of them died three to six months ago and they just got the latest report on the other one that was trying to escape Isis and they beat her to death

► 01:34:53


► 01:34:56

unquestionably it seems to be a growing force in a more dangerous Force every day I got a Twitter you know this is an idea and you can't bomb ideas was the was the statement to me and we are trying to avoid like getting into these massive sort of political debates or whatever

► 01:35:23

especially with 140 characters and that being said

► 01:35:32

Nazism was an idea that was defeated through military force slavery in America was an idea that was defeated by military force Imperial Japan was an idea and a religion that was defeated by military force and none of those ideas would have stopped without military force and this is an idea that can be defeated with bonds and this is also an idea that unfortunately in this country gets connected to all Muslims the idea behind what these people are doing gets connected to all Muslims when in reality most of the Muslims in the world they they don't want something like Isis to be in control they don't want to be in a Perpetual state of War they don't want to have to worry about these

► 01:36:24

quote unquote Savages and what they're doing yeah killed hundreds of thousands of why I don't know I don't know what the number is but we know that Isis has killed thousands and thousands and thousands of Muslims do you know they went into rahmati and killed hundreds and hundreds of Muslims that had worked in some way with the Coalition forces so that they can have a peaceful City they murdered them all suicide Donald Trump becomes president and he listen to podcast with Tim Ferriss and you read your book and goes Jocko I'm coming to you for advice what do I do I don't know why I said Donald Trump for president what I'm hoping that's that's our own Isis

► 01:37:05

let's whatever fill in the blank new president person becomes no side person I didn't even go with woman or man what would you do if you were if you were in a leadership position if you were in a position to make a decision or two to start a process what would you do we would destroy them you just go right back in we would destroy them and you think that's what America should do right now

► 01:37:35


► 01:37:36

yes it is a cancer that is growing it is malignant and it needs to be destroyed

► 01:37:45

so what steps would you take like what would you do if you were in a position of power right now it's interesting people and get this idea that this is some crazy complex situation and it's going to be all hard and all this I could pull together like two

► 01:38:02

first lieutenant from the Marine Corps exact a junior officer in the Marine Corps and say come up with a plan to defeat Isis you got two hours and they do it and if you could plan this is not a complex situation how many people you dealing with when he talks about Isis I don't know

► 01:38:18

twenty thousand ten thousand four thousand a hundred thousand to tell if you had stuff down doesn't matter you assess it you make you you bring what you need to the table you defeat him so what do you think is holding back from us doing something like I've no idea is it frustrating to you yes

► 01:38:38

because if you got kids

► 01:38:41

can you see the again a malignant cancer on Humanity that is growing unchecked when we have where were like the master surgeon that have the ability to go in and eradicate this disease and instead of doing that we're just we're just not doing anything so do you blame this the current Administration do you blame the the climate of the American public right now that the political climate or people just don't want to be involved in another war or enter into another prolonged interaction I think people are always looking for the easiest way out and going in as a hard decision to make it's a very hard decision to make and it's be very unpopular decision

► 01:39:30

and it would be the short-term pain that everyone's afraid of that's what one of the things that's so disconcerting to me about drones cuz it seems to me that what drones are is a way that we can avoid American casualties so people don't complain about it as much so he sent his robot in there to fly in and then launched missiles the good thing is it doesn't create American casualties but the bad thing is it doesn't seem to be nearly as effective it's like sort of a wishy-washy attempt in some ways at War it seems almost like it would be something that would you would use in a supplement as as well as a military attack like they would be a part of it instead of being the only thing that you use try to combat these people does that make sense I don't know if we have enough drones to get the job done

► 01:40:22

and they're effective but I mean a drone is going to take out I don't know 20/20 bad guys should be a lot of drones in action I don't know if we have that kind of capability yet

► 01:40:34

but we will someday you will someday we'll have a robot army and will be dealing with some Terminator type situation right yes but right now it's it's almost like we need to get smacked like something needs to happen before we hit back and I can't I cannot in good conscience agree with you cuz I don't want to say those words yeah you know it's not a horrible thought I want to put it out so horrible thought it's a horrible thought especially when you start talking about

► 01:41:02

a dirty bomb piano and Mike oh here's a sector of America that no one can live in anymore because it's been contaminated it's radioactive now that's real and again for some reason the warning signs which can be seen you know anywhere you look we're ignoring them sick people speaking for myself and Speaker for the people that I come in contact with I think people are becoming more and more concerned about Isis I know I pretty much daily basis I think one thing the Paris did do is it woke a lot of people up at the possibility that something like this can happen and that this isn't the end and this is this is ramping up and it if they have the kind of resources to pull off something like the Paris attacks who knows where this is going

► 01:41:53

totally agree with you it is a very scary time

► 01:41:57

what do you think is going to happen if you had a gas

► 01:42:02

what do I think is going to happen in terms of the terrorist attack in America in terms of our approach to dealing with something like Isis

► 01:42:14

I think it's very difficult to predict the future but not not to be a just a big cop out over here and not trying to do that to you but there's so many different ways that this could go and you know now you've thrown Russia into the mix because they took down the Russian airline you got a guy like puking who is a gangster you know and I say that in both context of negative and positive I mean the guy is in the negative way he's a gangster that's that's like scary with this thought process in the same time like props the guy's a gangster and he's going to smash some people

► 01:42:54

you've got now turkey in the mix I mean it's just a very it's a complex situation that's getting more complex all the time and the scariest part about it is that America is not in a leadership position we are not influencing the world the way we once did we are not people not looking to us as the as the leaders there are in the backseat and that's the scary we should be in a leadership position there is nothing wrong with that is not bad to have a benevolent country

► 01:43:31

and I know people are going to go crazy but a a generally benevolent country that's sitting here you know giving billions of dollars of a drowned the world never taken any soil and Captain I mean I guess in modern times we've never taken any soil and kept it be given Germany back to Jeremy we gave Japan back to Japan you know weave weave

► 01:43:55

we were a fairly benevolent country again I know we've got faults I know we've done things wrong the past I'm sure we'll do things wrong in the future but to have us not in a leadership position is a very disturbing time and when you say that we're not in a leadership position what do you think the shift is and where do you think it happened

► 01:44:19

I think it's been happening and I think I know I think the current Administration is definitely not as experienced as you would hope and I think there's a lot of a lot of naive attitudes about what the rest of the world is like

► 01:44:33

so this Administration you think was the beginning of the shift away from America being in a leadership position yes what kind of present do you think would change that

► 01:44:46

somebody that has a better understanding of the nature of the world like a John McCain dive guy yeah maybe like it's like like you know again I'm not disappearing trying to think of who the best presidential candidate would be aiming we have a hard time figuring that out in the Mid-America the whole but again you look at a guy like you look at that cute when you look at a guy like Obama

► 01:45:11

you cute ins

► 01:45:14

whole existence has been geared towards this you know I mean a KGB guy I mean he's been a player on the world stage in a part of it for his whole life and he's got an acute understanding of it and he's a black belt you know he's a legit black belt and you just see these other

► 01:45:35

you see that the the naivete of of this Administration and it's it's it's really hard to it's it's hard to understand it was one thing that Obama said he was yesterday or today that just drove me crazy he was talking about the attack on Planned Parenthood in Colorado Springs they said things like this don't happen other countries like how the fuck do you say that just days after what happened in Paris I was reading that just today before we start the podcast I was reading it I was like that is one of the craziest things that someone could say after hundreds of people were killed in Paris could you talking about it in terms of gun violence from a religious perspective that what the fuck happened in Paris but it because it's not about babies it's different like yeah I mean he said something the other day two was I'm not interested in some notion of America leading and winning

► 01:46:33

what does that mean exactly that's yeah it's very

► 01:46:39

it's just it's an it's a it's a very disturbing what does that mean that's what it did anybody ask me to qualify then or now it's one that you can see bands kind of speaking and

► 01:46:54

that's a weird statement for the guy who's the commander-in-chief of the greatest army the world's ever known

► 01:47:04

I think the concept of a benevolent leader of a benevolent Nation you know if you if you do can see that the world we're always being chaos and they'll always be at least in terms of like the foreseeable future the next hundred years or whatever we're at work until something crazy happens and it would have to be something monumental life changing that stops conflict all around the world you have to give if you are rational pragmatic person you looking at the future you have to say we're going to have conflict especially if you look at places like the Congo award you no mint parts of the Middle East where people don't count and is it is places where like you have to educate them to the point where the future would look radically different in the present right so if that's the case if the if conflict will be something that we're going to have to mitigate no matter what

► 01:48:00

wouldn't you want to be the one that gets to decide when you want to be the person in the position of power yes you would be like there is a much smaller scale but this is what I've always tried to do is tell people when they say why would you want to learn martial arts and what I always say is you don't want to learn martial arts cuz you want to go beat somebody up you want to learn martial arts for two things one because you want to learn how to overcome incredibly difficult things and in martial arts you're going to encounter times where you want to quit you're going to get your ass kicked going to be difficult today it's extremely difficult to get good at it too if you do get into a situation you want to be the one who gets to choose whether or not someone gets hurt you don't want to be helpless cuz being helped us is a terrible place to be but it doesn't necessarily mean you're going to go out and fucked people up and that's sort of the same idea and a macro scale that you would look at the concept of America

► 01:49:00

being a benevolent entity or benevolent superpower absolutely 100% right you know I mean

► 01:49:10

yo it's it goes with everything that we do and when I say we can talk about you know you train your workout you try to be strong you know you keep yourself aware of what's happening it's not because you want to go around kicking people's asses it's because you don't want to have to kick anyone's ass you know people are not looking it up right now so that when you can tell you can tell by the some the way someone carries themselves what what they have and what they know what they understand that you know I got to ask the other day if you were president and you asked me if I was got advice they said if you were president

► 01:49:50

what would you do with Isis and I said If I Was President Isis would not exist

► 01:49:56

Chaco would not exist because

► 01:50:01

we would have a presence in the world that would prevent the growth of this kind of ideology but what kind of a reaction do you think you would have from the American pop from the insulated American public ever in terms of what they do with the fifth row around the term islamophobia if you even criticize anyone that just happens to be a Muslim way we're wearing a strange time when it comes to incredibly sensitive may be hypersensitive people that maybe don't have a good grip on reality

► 01:50:37

well would you do take them over there and buses because I've already talked about this

► 01:50:49

islamophobia I mean I fought alongside these Muslims

► 01:50:56

I fought alongside them to help them my friends did and America did we fought alongside these people to try and help them and we did so how that gets twisted in some world to where you know we're not where evil is completely Beyond me because there is legit islamophobia out there in the world just like there's a there's a legit hatred of Christians as legit hatred of Mormons made as you're going to find groups of people that are hated and is also people that aren't willing to look deeper deeper into some some Global issue we have a global issue that these people that call themselves Isis or is il or whatever they call themselves and you know they call themselves the Islamic State uo islamo Islam's bad Muslims are bad Muslims are evil I was watching something was posted up on

► 01:51:56

Twitter there was this guy who is proposed believe it was in Virginia he was at a county one of those meetings where you're talking about building something in the town and he was he was talking about putting up a mosque these people are screaming at them that Muslims are evil in your evil cult is not going to come into our town you're trying to invade our town and get out of here with your evil called like okay that's islamophobia that's right there when you talk about a peaceful guy who just wants to be able to worship His you know his ideas his religion in peace in this place I want to build a mosque and people want to you know they're Furious this guy that's real islamophobia right there's a big difference between something like that and what's going on in other parts of the world with Isis giant giant difference and I think

► 01:52:52

did when people want to throw around that term islamophobia I think a lot of times when they're doing is they're just trying to be correct the try to be politically correct socially correct to trying to be sensitive and they trying to let everybody know that they're not racist that they're not xenophobic that they're not islamophobic or whatever that they're open-minded in Progressive so they're throwing around these terms they kind of clouds the water

► 01:53:19

okay I mean these are all these people are running around calling you know islamophobia yeah I don't know no one ever called me that

► 01:53:34

not yet I'm sure they will already today on Twitter I don't see how they could do that again we fought alongside Muslim people we ate with them we put our lives in their hands and they put their hands in their lives in our hands and you know America and my friends were killed trying to help them so how I'm a person that could be called an islamophobe astuces is kind of a stretch I think rationally irrational you know people paint their own layers on to things and make them into what they're not I think it's symptomatic of what's going on with with our culture to who is it this these are hypersensitive over simplistic ideas and in people that they would say these things like this don't have a real Gray

► 01:54:35

like you have of what it's like over there and I don't think anybody does other than people like you that have been over there and have been in combat I don't think it's possible I think that's one of the problems that we have we were behaving like children in a lot of ways because we really have never had to live on her own and it's it's it's actually very similar to what we were talking about earlier with the traditional martial arts you can sit there in your fantasy world and think that your Chi is going to protect you and that as long as you spread love you're going to be protected because your Chi is strong and until you've been in a fistfight you're going to believe that answer that girls can I call you said do we need to get spanked over fist fight before America realizes like cannabis real problems in the world that need to be handled this is one of the weirdest times every but I haven't been in my ACT about this is the first time ever where someone broke in the White House have to know that 2004

► 01:55:35

the first time I gained access and there's a woman guarding front door on armed woman guarding the front door and a woman who's in charge of secret service because diversity and then one of my favorite parts of there was an article written about when the guy knocked the chick over ran inside and they said it was reviewed and gender wasn't an issue

► 01:55:57

okay yeah that makes a lot of sense but give me a Brock Lesnar was guarding the door the same thing would happen if the guy would have knocked him over and ever and he would have no one would have ever caught the guy you just went to ran by and that's fucking ridiculous but it's that same kind of crazy thinking politically correct ass and I'm thinking you should have a fucking tea if you going to make the president sleep in a house that's in the park she probably have a team of fucking assassin's surrounding that building at all times and she keep a look at four dudes that are sprinting across the lawn knocking over chicks at regarding the front door. There's no doubt about it but it's the same thing it's like we're so soft and we're so used to being in this insulated world that we have here this nice sweet Bubble Witch driver 8 mile per hour or 8 mile per gallon SUVs

► 01:56:46

I don't know how you would ever really illuminate all these problems that you're bringing up I don't I don't know how you get get these I mean to the hand of in World War II that you and me if we were 13 years old we weren't old enough to serve we still knew that there was a war going on cuz we couldn't eat steak we couldn't use any metal we were gardening at night we were shutting off the lights at we were impacted all of America was impacted at the height of the battle of ramadi the height of it at the height of the war of Iraq and Afghanistan America Americans at the mall were not impacted at all at all at all not even allowed to show photographs of coffins it's like the first time ever in the history of the United States The History of the United States taking pictures during wartime where they made it illegal to show photos of coffins

► 01:57:44

which is just absolutely insane like how how are you going to let people understand what's happening if you don't even allow journalists to show photographs of coffins

► 01:57:58

it's the it's the bubble you talking about the same thing

► 01:58:03

what made you decide to leave the military

► 01:58:10

well a bunch of things I mean it wasn't like the one day I woke up and said I'm done you know obviously if you haven't caught this up to this point I love I love to see opium's yeah I love being in the military at the 20-year Mark I

► 01:58:28

had a bunch of different things that kind of weight in you know I had a family that I hadn't seen or didn't know pretty much so you start thinking well you know maybe I should pay attention then a little bit I had completed sort of my last real job operational job in the SEAL Teams and it was going to be a long time before I was in command again of a seal team owner of something that was important in from a war fighting perspective so that was kind of

► 01:58:59

kind of another thing that I looked at that was tough and and

► 01:59:05

yeah I just I guess I that's it that's it really

► 01:59:12

so what would you transition

► 01:59:14

how long ago did you begin to get out I got out in 2010 or just company where we going to work with civilian companies doing leadership and management and you know my my buddy lay felt so I can literally who is one of the platoon commanders that was with me and rahmati and Dino Ki ye did run into a company I run into company and they asked us to do some stuff and the next thing you know you know I gave one one kind of leadership training to accompany and then they said come back in training all of our divisions and then the parent company of that company watch me and said hey can you come to our CEO Summit and then went to see you some other than a bunch of those Co say hey can you come in and the next thing you know I'm doing this so what what is the what is the process like when you're when you're doing these the speeches are you saying things out how do you organize them and you obviously your lifetime was in the middle of

► 02:00:14

so what was it about you and about what you brought to the table that was so attracted to them I think it's because the principles of leadership and that's what we discussed we talk about that's what you just leadership the principles of leadership do not change whether your whether your mission is to capture kill bad guys or whether your mission is to manufacture something or sell something to produce something you're trying to do you got a group of people group of individuals and they're going to be diverse they're going to be different than to have different intelligence levels or have different personalities have different goals and have different motivations and you got to take all those people and unify them and try and get them to accomplish a mission in the most effective and efficient manner

► 02:01:02

and that's leadership and it doesn't like I said that those principles that we used in combat don't change regardless of what the mission is and what what's good you know what I said this earlier

► 02:01:15

life is like combat but Amplified and intensified in combat since our combat is like life but Amplified and intensified in and that means when we tell a story like a leadership story about combat it it it's so obvious what the what the principal was in the business World they might take six months or a year maybe you barely even notice what the failure was you know and when we took when we do you make those Stark examples from Kombat people go all I see how we're failing in this too and that's that's why I think people really took hold of of what we did and how we put it across so this is something that you were approached to do this wasn't my idea that you would had and you thought about that this would be my new thing of like all this garbage that I talk on my life and I've told me some people like Plan B prepared yeah I almost completely fell into this with the fact that you know someone today can you come and talk to my people about leadership

► 02:02:15

I said oh yeah I've been talking to leadership for you know the last several years and SEAL Teams and I've been in leadership position in some pretty

► 02:02:23

tough situations and you know that's just that just happened and how do you teach a course or is this this is like a one-time seminar type of the thing we do both well so sometimes we go in you know what we'll do like a keynote speech and those are good those are good those are great you'll get a lot of positive feedback about those but then sometimes we will go in with company and we've done like two year contract companies were we trained everybody that they have and we get all their leadership online on the same page and and we'll we'll go in you know for maybe a couple of assessment will look and see you won't learn about what business the rain will learn about what they're doing how they're doing it will see what areas they can improve on will formulate a plan around that and it will come back and we'll try and Leadership that's fascinating so you have to kind of construct a course yes yes I mean the basic like I said the basic principles are always the same but some organizations have different problems and other organizations they all they all have the same

► 02:03:23

five seven problems or whatever that number is some of them are really bad at this or really good at this or they're failing here but they're winning here so we got to go and check them out so you would see what the issue is when we get it turned around is this rewarding for you enjoy doing this absolute number one I can talk about that all day long I can talk about it more than I can talk about leadership all day long because it's it's it's a it's a most challenging thing the most challenging thing about being in combat in a leadership position is not you know trying to figure out what the enemy's going to do and trying to trying to organize a good plan the most challenging thing is doing with all these human beings badass the challenging thing is getting these guys and girls to do what they need to do what you need them to do to get them to believe in it that's what's challenging and we definitely learned lessons positive and negative you know that's one

► 02:04:23

about a book that people have got a lot of feedback is this book isn't like hey look what we did look how awesome we are no this book is a lot of those chapters in that book are hey this is what we screwed up here's the failure that happened this was a horrible situation and it was my fault that's what we learned the lessons and I think that's what made people relate to it more cuz we're not just saying hey we're the greatest thing in the world know we were we were humbled by combat we were we were humbled by the enemy we were humbled by our own guys that did amazing things when we were around so I think that's a little bit different as warm again I think that's one of the things that makes Pete that appeals to the people is they look at this and they go I can relate to that I can understand it I have failed to I made a mistake oh how did they handle it or they did this okay got it when you're talking about combat you're talking about people organizing and staying together and figure out how to lead your talking about these

► 02:05:23

extreme consequences the most extreme ever and when you have is Extreme consequences obviously when there's a lot on the line people going to focus and some people going to fall apart and some people going to pull together but you're going to you're going to get people that understand the gravity of the situation it would seem to me that it would be much harder to impart that into people in the business World Amplified and intensified so in combat lives are at stake absolutely in business world

► 02:05:56

if you had a fire anyone before know it sucks have you ever had people lose their job and couldn't pay the mortgage and feed their kids because you screwed up as a boss know that's pressure that is masked have you ever lost hundreds of millions of dollars worth of capital because you made a bad decision but you know why it's cuz I'm not a leader and she says good things and not being a leader is the benefits of non leadership so it's so you know when people ask me that question to ask a question time I'm like hey it's not about it's not about lives but it's about Lively Woods Run you've got people that are relying on you to succeed and when and again sure you get killed in combat that's obviously the worst thing that can happen but if you lose your job or you know your your people lose their jobs me people kill themselves all the time do they make Bad Business decisions it's that much pressure is that much pressure for sure and so that's why does translate business people relate to that amount of pressure and they understand how it feels to

► 02:06:56

have that bearing down on them it just seems to me for a guy like you that maybe you'll be even more attracted to going into business then you would be to teaching people how to leave their businesses better yeah and we time in bed as a business it is definitely what we're doing and that being said for me to now go into business I'd have to learn some new business World why not just take the skills that I do have which is you know we know about leadership so let's just help other people and that is rewarding it's it's very rewarding to talk to someone and have them go

► 02:07:33

I did what you told me to do and this is the result this is the outcome that's very rewarding and and another piece of it is you know everything always ties to me back to America

► 02:07:45

the the businesses in this country are the economic power of this nation and our economic power is the backbone of our Authority in the world that's a help businesses grow and Achieve is is very rewarding because I know that it's it's a very patriotic thing to do capitalism is is it is a very patriotic piece of America that's an interesting perspective that's an interesting way to look at the big picture and I agree with you I'm going to say something that people hate me saying but Imma say it cuz I I need to say it to you you should have a podcast people always get mad at me cuz I say this all the time too interesting guests but this is not something that's difficult to do and you be fucking great at it and I think that your perspective on the military and your perspective on our our situation overseas I think would be very unusual very unusual and very educated and I just think this does no one out that is doing that like like you could do it while we definitely you're not the first person to ask me a better fact when Tim Ferriss

► 02:08:45

like we got done with the podcast and heat press stop on the thing he's looked up at me and said you need to do from podcast for him come up to my buddies about it and we're working no it's interesting too and I'm I'm getting over the fact of like I told you earlier like I like I said on the Tim Ferriss program your people that just talked for no reason and it's hard for me to get used to like the fact that somebody wants to hear what I have to say that's not you know a seal or you know what Direct business person but I'm definitely you know I'll probably end up doing something with it

► 02:09:34

well I think you don't great military leaders whether it's but it's sung Su The Art of War with its Miyamoto Musashi from the book of five rings great Warriors from the past have written books at civilians have gotten a lot out of and I think that someone like you instead of writing a book and your book I'm sure is great and I'm sure there's a lot of lessons in that but on a daily basis to be able to do something like this anytime you want just fire up your podcast anytime something like Paris at the Paris attack happens you could give your perspective instantaneously upload it onto the internet and this just never been a time like that it's wonderful that we can sit down and read what Miyamoto Musashi wrote hundreds of years ago means it's amazing it's interesting you can sit to to try to peer into the mind of one of the greatest swordsman that ever lived and see his philosophies on life but I think that

► 02:10:34

today with the Advent of the internet and with with the ability to Broadcast Yourself virtually instantaneously I think you could you could make a gigantic impact in sharing a prospective and is it taking those experiences that you have so deserved and so earned and and giving people was inside that there's just they're just not going to get it you know I'm getting it from you like I said I got it from you from that Tim Ferriss episode and I'm getting it and even more from you now it's a perspective you just not going to get from someone who wasn't there you just not going to get it you're going to get these fuzzy but you know it's like it's like to speak to people sitting over here to people talk about martial arts don't know shit about martial arts you know that's what it's like to hear someone like me talk about the military really it's again is another thing that that is I'm

► 02:11:30

sorting out in my own head which is this idea of broadcasting myself it just it just weird I mean you grew up you were into this you know I think you've been a comedian for premature old adult life 96 years so 26 years you were getting on stage that's what you wanted to do and honestly when I first joined the SEAL Teams that was the most frowned upon staying was to be broadcasting yourself that you were a seal and you were that what you did and it and it took me a long time I mean writing this book was up was a

► 02:12:05

it's it's a really hard thing to do because you sit there and you you know you you're supposed to be humble right you're a warrior supposed to be humble okay well I'm going to write a big book about myself I mean that just did that just doesn't work and it was really hard and and leaf and I that was one of the biggest things that we did as we edited it and edited it and edited it we went through it just it just to make sure that we were coming across and saying things in a manner that really reflected

► 02:12:35

that humility which again it's very hard to do because it's a dichotomy it's a dichotomy because you're saying hey you got to be humble as a leader by myself it's just crazy and so when you're sitting here like I know you should have a podcast I'm thinking that you know you should broadcast yourself and again with the way I was raised cuz I thought your whole don't call me I spent my whole adult life in the SEAL Teams and I was raised by these old Vietnam guys that were badasses and they're like oh you don't talk about this and so I'm kind of going against this the way I was raised and it so again I'm getting over it I'm trying to get over it but at the same time I don't want to get completely over it because that's part of you know that's part of the way I was raised in there with what I believe in I see their point of view I totally understand why they would say you don't talk about it but what I think the benefit of talking about it today as opposed to their time is through the

► 02:13:35

turn that you could broadcast in a way that would be like no one's going to take a Navy SEAL back in the day and give them a gigantic television show where they could say whatever the fuck they wanted broadcast anytime they wanted but if you have a successful podcast you can reach hundreds of thousands of people with each episode which is just like a successful television show and because of that you have the ability to educate people and get people disrespect that I said that I got from you that I've just not getting not getting from anybody else unless they've been there but I get it from you I get from Tim Kennedy I get it from Brian stann I get from Andy stop I get from people that have been there when you get a different perspective than you're ever going to get from someone who just pontificating or guessing waxing poetically on the nature of Man and War it's all bulshit until you talk to someone is actually been there you don't really understand what they're saying

► 02:14:31

I think that I think it would be gigantic I really think you should do it I really I really think it would help a lot of people I think it would help a lot of people understand from the perspective of someone who actually knows they're talking about and there's not a lot of that in the world I think this is also what you're talkin about when you talk to you about the leadership in this country it's I don't I don't know if you should be someone who served in the military in order to qualify for being the president but I don't think it's a bad idea to throw it out there to say that at the very least you should spend some time living in these environments where were involved in massive Conflict at the very least you should visit them spend a lot of time with the people who have lived and served and fought in these countries do you understand clearly with no fuzziness at all what the fuck is going on in the world

► 02:15:26

well there's no doubt that I think military service I mean

► 02:15:34

it was so good for me it was so good for me and won me over there I don't know either

► 02:15:47

I guarantee Jamie would get all out a lot out of it I'm sure he wouldn't care if I guarantee you what he might wind up like that dude full metal jacket with the rifle on the bathroom Private Pyle get some

► 02:16:05

yeah I didn't know military didn't know it was great for me and and but again you you were born for this I mean this is like something you were drawn to like a magnet to metal filings no I was I was drawn to it but

► 02:16:20

I would still like when I joined my dad my dad said to me you're going to hate it because you hate Authority that's what my dad said failed 100K that gives you an indication as to what kind of kid I was I was like completely out of control and didn't listen to anybody and I'll probably be similar to what you were like I'm guessing you know how to control Kid that never ends are joined the military put the structure around me all the time I can take all this energy that I had and and which one am I supposed to get this Clean Slate weather like okay if you do this you will be successful here's what you need to check these boxes on okay I'm ready to do those things and you just do them and you develop the discipline you know the best one I talked about that all the time you know that the fact that discipline equals freedom in the more discipline you have is a human the more freedom to have which is completely counterintuitive you know people think oh you're living this discipline lifestyle so that means you you don't have any freedom and it's actually the

► 02:17:20

exact opposite I have freedom because I have discipline I have I have you know Financial Freedom because I have Financial this one I have more time I have more time because I have the discipline to get up in the morning before most normal people get up those the kind of disappointed you put in a place and those definitely getting still through the military definitely does help you with is it helps you get things done and when you get things done when you were you at you actually do things do you have more success if you have more success and sometimes all a big part of success is just not being fucking lazy and just doing it just get it's like 90% of it is just showing up get there and start working like you're not going to feel perfect everyday if I felt if I only worked out when I felt good to be a fat fuck cuz there's a lot of things I don't want to do it if it's pretty much the same with everybody that is that actually gets good at something that you you get there's got to be those days you push through

► 02:18:20

my nerves are probably going to be more numerous in the days you don't and so the benefit of discipline in my eyes is always been that through discipline I get things done I would say that I'm like the most lazy disciplined person I know because I don't want to do it but I always do and I'd be interesting to get your perspective on this this statement so I also think that discipline

► 02:18:48

is it is a pathway to creativity and I'll tell you when I talk about creative is another misconception about the military when you're on the battlefield is an absolute exercise in creativity okay already talked about how you going to leave these people what you going to do how are you going to influence them how you going to talk to them how you going to say the right things that's creativity now you throw on top of that what am I going to be how are we going to attack them how are we getting the disorganized then how are we going to get in their heads that's all just massive creativity and when I look at people that are artists like yourself cuz you're a stand-up comedian you I would imagine that the more disciplined you are the you know you got to get up and write you got to write stuff down you got to read and find out what's going on the world ship more things that you can jab at me and make fun of you got an increase your vocabulary so it's you at are quicker and sharper so when people are saying things you have more words to the battle back at them all those

► 02:19:48

things all that freedom that you get on stage comes from the discipline that you you study you learn you read you right you talk you go through things is that an accurate statement absolutely accurate is a great book on it the Steven pressfield wrote a book called The War of Art and pressfield was essentially like an ER do well to lose like 40 years old he was kind of a fuck up and then figured it out some ice cube a stack of them my old Studio musicians as well but we're writers for sure one of the big problems is sitting down and doing the work and you got to impress field talks about that it is in the most concise and beautiful wife and he labels it like an enemy cuz it resistance you knowing that you have to sit down you have to overcome resistance another Pro goes to work and it doesn't matter if you're sick doesn't matter if you have

► 02:20:48

kids does matter what you you're a pro and you go to work and that is just it puts it in your head that this is what I do this is what in you have pride in that and then when you are in front of that keyboards and your your you got you look down the count it says a thousand words today I put it sounds more than you gems Blossom things but you might have a day where you just write nothing but dog shed so what show up again tomorrow and tomorrow that dog should have flour will emerge you never know and that's the only way to develop real like two to really develop your potential 100% in anyting whether it says an author or even as a martial artist and there's a lot of creativity and martial arts to be a great Striker you have to be creative because you have to you have to develop a tolerance or execute patterns that aren't going to be perceived like if a guy has a real simple 1212 you got a time that shit you can't wait

► 02:21:47

we're talkin before the this podcast about Holly Holmes victory of Ronda Rousey and one of the things we're talking about was it Rhonda had this very linear straightforward attack you knew she was coming and Holly is a master at at countering so all she had to do was wait and move and run was coming in One Direction there was no doz there was no variations no create a mad Bulldog Rush that had worked on everybody else before but she found one person who was a virtuoso at movement and she needed creativity and it wasn't there and she needed that experience that came with having faced someone who knew that position and do a deep understanding of that movement and she didn't have that in her repertoire and so that's the result that we saw like a striker like Anderson Silva's extremely creative you watch these got to fight versus Tony Franklin

► 02:22:47

cage Warriors KD warriors with fuck was it called in England Small organization in England step in uppercut elbow like a sideways elbow and his coach was going you're fucking crazy stop practicing that and he would make his wife hold the pillow just because his his coach didn't want him to practice anymore cuz he thought he was wasting his time so he practice step and his wife and hold a pillow for him and he'd step in and throw this uppercut elbow that's what he knocked out Franklin with and he obviously Franklin was out class and that fight but he wanted to make a point and the front kick city land in the face of Vitor Belfort Vitor never saw that chicken almond cuz nobody done that to him before because nobody had done that in the history of the UFC nobody's ever knocked anybody out with the first kid to learn in martial arts but the creativity to try something like that he would throw punches to your thigh from standing he would throw a jab to your thought I would throw a crescent kick an inch

► 02:23:47

add Crescent kick your face like what the fuck it was it was part of what made him such an effective Striker is that he threw these things that you just didn't expect him to do there's a lot of creativity and you just so you know that I got got Mustang Jeff Glover my my guys most creative guys in Jiu-Jitsu today he's one of my favorite he does his thing for folks who don't understand Jiu-Jitsu don't know we're talking about he does this thing called a donkey guard he's so fucking crazy this guy he gets on literally he faces you with his butt to you and he launches himself backwards like a donkey Kicking & Wraps you up and it looks so Preposterous while he's doing it that's so many guys especially when he first started executing it just had no idea what the fuck to do feather is right there

► 02:24:47

Jim and he trains everyday with whoever and he puts himself in the most ridiculously horrible positions I'm talking like okay he'll let people get a rear naked choke on I mean we are watching them Escape all the time just to work to work on a defense and just to be in a bad way he's not a big guy he's super super super flexible I'm like a crazy flexible and gets dinged up but he just is very flexible and he knows where to put his body you know he's just a he's kind of a freak cuz I knew that he trained with you I was going to ask you like the idea of you and him training together for both listening to this was a majority of our podcast is audio Golic 90% sure about what 2:40 or something like that. 235

► 02:25:47

I want trains anybody's to tan a hundred 50 lb train with gorillas yet how the fuck he does it. He's just super relaxed and his moves and moves really want this amazing it's amazing no back problems he's alright no neck problems he's 100-percent at all times that's amazing Deans getting home or dinged up looks like he ate a Dean I saw you with 300 lb and I don't mean in a fat with either he's he's he's pretty big Ben powerlifting or something like what is he doing I think you just eats a lot to like food doesn't go right to your neck his next release of genetic genetic mutant genetic and

► 02:26:42

yeah he's in both those guys are are mutants there actual grappling mutants where if you and I would like concoct some weird you know like potion and create beings you know you'd make like a Jeff Glover flexible Arie and you'd be really good and then you can make a deal must resist a big mutant who you when you grieve catch Dean you have to do everything perfect because he's his defense is really good and he just doesn't it's really hard to Tappan with stuff you know like like you'll just give people you know his foot and now go for it and it takes me like three days I'll have to soften his foot up with like 9 foot locks then just crank it crank it crank and then you know on the third day I'll get a deep one and it'll already be like Hertz on so she have to soften him up over so she's like tenderizing meat well that was why I was so shocking when Josh Barnett tapped him cuz Josh Barnett tapped him and like it in

► 02:27:42

old school side like headlock joke which is very rare you know it's very rare that you see like a high-level guy that executes that choke like the way Josh did Josh got that old-school catch wrestling knowledge to which is just such a different approach and get used to certain approaches down and Josh has a very different person he's a very physically strong guy as well yeah and I mean you know Dean is just adina's of mutant gifted incredibly gifted Grappler but his you know his training methodology and lifestyle is not really conducive to competing like that you know

► 02:28:26

unfortunately that's a nice way of saying he's kind of lazy and I've trained with all kinds of guys in the world world class guys all over the place and Dean is absolutely you know one of those guys that is up there with like you know hexen to a friend with Marcelo but he's like that crazy good really wow of the first real leglock master Escape really understood

► 02:29:06

I saw it. Who brought him in to into where someone brought him into a TCC Pride by blanketing Alan Belcher Belcher broad who's smarter who's the best leg Locker in MMA and in that fight Alan just stopped everything pajares throughout him and literally every single movement that I saw a car like I knew exactly what it showed him in exactly what those movements were that's amazing what is Dean doing these days is it going to still compete her he's you know he's teaching Jiu-Jitsu and you know I'm hanging out getting after it you know I would love to see him just like completely refocused and make a make a run at when an 80cc or whatever one more time before he before he hangs it up but when you say

► 02:30:06

what kind of shit just normal stuff you know if I think a cute heating 80cc his last time I was in China faces match against buchecha when we touch his just to complete beast and you know they went at it and that was a very close match and again if you watch training videos of buchecha getting ready for 80cc he's training like a complete Savage and he's bringing wrestlers in he's clean and he's flipping tires you doing everything that one does to prepare for situation like that and and Dean does not do those types of things you know he'll come in and train a little bit and go on his natural ability as a mutant human being to get it done

► 02:30:57

it's always frustrating when you see a guy who is so naturally gifted who kind of like lays back but that's it seems to be that's a lot of what happens is the people that are naturally gifted don't have to work as hard so they don't work as hard as they say it's also part of you know I want to talk about Jeff and Ian both those guys they're both and you know you could throw Eddie and then you throw all kinds of people in this category game changers you know what I mean well that well a couple times but I definitely know Jeff and Dean and there they got some they got some some weird stuff about writing me they got some weird personality stuff and from my perspective that is you know if you don't have that weird personality thing then how are you going to be you know a fifteen-year-old Jeff Glover and be like oh you know what to do all day I'm going to train Jiu-Jitsu all day everyday I'm going to sit there and

► 02:31:57

watch YouTube videos I'm going to get good at this on the train everyday I'm going to compete all over the country I'm just asking what I'm going to do that's you know if you're not some if you have some if your normal you're not going to do that job at Walmart and then I'm going to do it and I'll train it I'll swing for an hour and 1/2 night these guys like oh no I'm just going to rain all day everyday and I'm going to live in you know on the mat and Dean same way like that if he didn't have that weird like spark that made him that makes him I mean he's got some weird

► 02:32:27

like knowledge was weird about him is if you ask Eddie Bravo about you know the rubber guard he knows all this details about it but if you ask him about a foot lock or what that's something that a little bit you last eat about something that he knows nothing of like you've never seen him do before he'll know all these detailed of the moves I seriously don't know if he goes and watch it on YouTube please write it down but he's got this weird little almost rain man you know idiot savant type weird thing is that he was one of those guys that had a really hard time transitioning into MMA absolutely his striking that just never seemed fluid-like and he you know I know you worked hard at it he just for whatever his body is designed and you see that with everybody because everyone's got strengths and weaknesses examples of people

► 02:33:27

every fighter you know he's got some we carry and then you get a case like GSP that's just like well-rounded everyone even even things physical things physical attributes you some people are just super mutant strong and some people are just super crazy flexible and some people have unbelievable natural cardio and some people don't and so it's the people then there's some people that are really good at grappling or some people are really good at striking there's some people that are good at putting all those things together with our without shade or was very natural that combining his striking with his grappling and kind of making it all fit together better than most people could I agree with you on that really stood out about him was that he didn't fall into that trap at a lot of people do wear if you're a really good recipe to have knock out power you just knock everybody out and fade or he would be you would be stunned and he would see your arm he would dive in a Kimura you know he would he would always

► 02:34:27

take the opportunity that presented itself but it was a grappling situation where there's a striking situation and his well-roundedness is one of the things that made him special on top of his knockout power in his aggression is he was so well-rounded it was his ability to flow with whatever was happening and he also had that hump humility and he had that calm like you serve like you saw Holly had the other day. I ask you again talk about social media I post and out by then posted much on Face the Facebook before but there's a video of Holly talking about she got beat by Mathias in kickbox bright is a vicious fight watch a boxing boxing it's it's it's it's insane I mean she gets destroyed howling it's completely destroyed hanging on the roads getting punched in the head it's awful when you watch the post fight interview with her

► 02:35:23

and it is it's unbelievable because everything she says she takes complete ownership of the loss she's like I had a great training camp I my coaches were telling me to do the right things but I wasn't doing what I'm supposed to do I wasn't fighting the way I was supposed to fight the reason I lost night is my fault I did this and I will have to change things if I'm going to beat her and hearing someone and the other part of cool. It was she was getting emotional like you could see like she want a crime and she was crushed but she she kept control of her emotions and I saw that video is going to do going to do well in this Friday I had a pretty good feeling about it but she's she is incredibly solid that's for sure and that is so admirable and someone does take ownership of their mistakes so important it's so important that's like we wrote the book

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extreme ownership that's right there is because when we made mistakes

► 02:36:35

we owned up to him and furthermore when both life and I ended up in positions where we were teaching leadership life was teaching the junior officers that were coming out of the Seal training put them through the the junior officer training course and I was teaching like I said the advanced guys would get to see lobsters and like I said horrible training scenarios where was getting killed blown up and carrying people through the desert and just it just awful and you come back from these situations and you talked to one of those thoughts are one of the good leaders and you say what went wrong and the guide say well number one I didn't give a clear enough plan no one really understood what my vision was they didn't execute because I obviously didn't give them a good enough breathing and you'd be like okay turn off and back I would go and fix that problem

► 02:37:26

can you get a guy that was not take ownership of stuff that would come in and say you do to her what was wrong. That was terrible job what happened he said well my soul Force Commander didn't wait for my command before we left and he screwed up and my platoon Chief wasn't heads-up about where our casualties were being taken in my lpo and they did make all these excuses the difference between like who would be successful and who wouldn't be because the guy that takes ownership of the problems we think the rest of his team does if that person takes ownership of problems everybody on that team does the same thing they don't say yeah you're right boss it is your fault know they go hey boss you know what I actually could have done a better job in and that spreads through everybody whereas when someone says it wasn't my father's Joe's fault what's Joe do

► 02:38:24

what the problem never gets out exactly so to hear Holly talking about that after the fight and taking complete ownership of a loss was very impressive and she wanted to beat her like six months later I believe it's one of the most important things and getting good at anything is recognizing when you're not good recognizing when you make mistakes it seems so simple it's right but you know why because he go everybody's it's like even even even like you got to keep your ego in check when I went when somebody ask somebody I'll be like hey is there anything I could have done better than that in that speech or in that class

► 02:39:08

and I'll be like what you know one thing that you could do and I like a meeting, I'm such a loser or telling them about 30 minutes so everybody everybody everybody does it all the time no one can take criticism and you'll part of that biggest step of moving forward is to take ownership of cell phone when it goes sideways and they definitely will you need some Form B some amount of pride and some amount of ego to get good at things in the first place cuz it's it's such a count counterintuitive notion because you have to have a belief in yourself you have to be able like when you first when you start out at you do to your wife out like I remember being a wife out and be on our call my God I am fucking never going to be good at this I'm going to suck forever but toot toot to look at people who were better than you and know they had to have sucked at one point in time okay there's got to be somewhere along the end of this tunnel there's got to be a like I just got to keep

► 02:40:08

drives you to be successful me to be successful and you know everything you know everything take balance every part of you has a dichotomy into the physical aspects of things that you end up like doing a bunch of steroids and going crazy and ruining your health yes that's not good the other end of the spectrum you know you can sit around and play video games and turn into

► 02:40:42

Yeah Yeah Lil Durk deer's yeah bodybuilding is the best example that right easy cuz it's kind of nice to you and I it is but I think there's a giant culture of people out there that want to look like huge mutant still visits I think I'm not in that world but what I mean in bodybuilding is a great example that because when you start lifting weights like God like to be stronger and you start getting a little bit bigger Eli call you that I got a muscle Booth school and then you keep going and then you keep going but some guys get so fucking crazy they won't stop until they have 22 in arms and they want to have size that are so big they have to walk up there and get a barrel in between their legs and you know and they they just can't help but they just take it to some completely unhealthy place it's rough it's just the nature of trying to get good at something you got to recognize what's good

► 02:41:42

what is just fucking insane cancer Fighters all the time so bad part of problem of the problem with the with mixed martial arts somebody because all of a sudden like One Night Vale does fall apart I just won't be able to do anything right in the Moors I cannot go into steaks and take 2 days off you know because they will get to a point you was feeling you to see him fall apart you have to monitor your heart rate that's a big thing that a lot of Fighters don't do monitor your resting heart rate in the morning and if it goes up more than 5 beats in a day or two most likely you're overtrained or you're sick or you're struggling with something that that would make Steve Maxwell taught me that trick you psyche every fighter should do that none of them do they should monitor their heart rate in every morning his heart rate is like to seven yeah Steve Maxwell can fucking he can deal with anything yeah he's just one of those dudes but he's just he's another guy or talk about a guy's got a lifetime of wisdom for here comes to strength and conditioning what he calls physical

► 02:42:42

culture in the culture of going to taking care of your body 62 or 63 years old fit as a fiddle travels all around the world training people that's all he does doesn't have a house doesn't he has a bag that he brings with him like he travels around all the stops in that bag I ran into him in San Diego cuz he's been downsizing like when I put the first time I ran into in San Diego he was down to living in like an RV like a small RV that's what I first met on Cass whatever you know a year later or two years later and he's not have all my worldly possessions in a backpack yeah he's sold his RV and he's like fuk it I don't even know if he has a bank account I mean estranged Catman he really is a strange cat but a very at peace guy for sure that means she was very interested I wouldn't want to live like that I don't like living like that but he's also been the guy that lived the other ways had the house needs at the family and his son

► 02:43:42

Zach is a very successful Jiu-Jitsu competitor and you know got divorced and gave up the gym he has all the all the trappings he had everything is like I like it better like this like backpacks are there was Trappin so maybe somehow biltz all these things around in that felt to ended up to make him feel trapped for him it's just that he would he figured out what do you say to this day and he teaches a course of Jiu Jitsu for Lifetime and it's all about maintaining your house while you trained and you know he's written articles on training smart to avoid injuries as you get older and you know how to pick the right training Partners make sure you know you know what he's trying to hurt you but that you could keep an active martial arts lifestyle deep in your sixties I can you got to be thankful that you started Jiu-Jitsu a little bit younger because you got to get even today if you start Jiu-Jitsu as an older night we have all kinds of older guys coming to the gym and it's that first

► 02:44:42

year where they just don't know where to put their body and they don't notice they don't know to say no to that twenty-one-year-old juiced-up Marie mean that's like in there to get after it ended like they'd smack hands to roll in this guy's going to tear them apart and that's that's how guys get hurt if there if they're older and you know you need to ease into it a little extreme Partners in this it is always going to be the guy that hurts people through the speed of giant German dude that used to roll at our gym he's always get everybody and leg locks and blow their knees out and it's just that you know you never rolled it back on like I've been blocked by Dean Martin how many times like he'll Hook New York but you know I'll never hurt you know and I've gotten him you know not thousands we're playing times and we've never heard each other you know because we we know we're doing

► 02:45:42

rather roll with a black Bell for some fucking psycho blue belt

► 02:45:48

it's it's just too dangerous sometimes it just Tuesday spaz out and leaves had bought you accidentally in there weird shit happens it's some things that I think is amazing is that Anthony Bourdain has gotten crazy into Jiu-Jitsu over the last I think two years now you just aren't his blue belt he's fifty-nine it's amazing he is a lifetime of smoking cigarettes doing heroin like never-never was fit never exercised at all when I first met him like he would laugh about Fitness he just wanted to drink beer and you know the first time we did my podcast we got so high I don't even know how we talked and then I just did the TV show like a couple weeks ago where in Montana talk about Jiu-Jitsu he's obsessed I'm showing him some techniques were talking about different guys that like to do different things at different approaches and guinea vs know Gideon John danaher and you know it

► 02:46:48

Garry tonon Eddie Cummings and all these different cuz I'm like this is amazing I can't believe what a transformation is guys overtaking Jiu-Jitsu definitely I mean people can get into all kinds of weird stuff right people get into surfing people get into skiing people get into rock climbing there's definitely something more in Jiu-Jitsu that gets into people's heads definitely happen to me I mean I was completely and I still am I mean I still cannot like stop a YouTube video of a cool move I mean I just I just have to watch it yeah and I think it's because they're such as cerebral part of it there's something about it and she just when we teach kids and you'll see the knucklehead kids that kind of knuckledraggin kids are kind of big that they don't really get it but then you get this kid like some smart Kitty can tell they're smart and it was the kids that get really into Jiu-Jitsu because they realize I know if I learned that I can beat that big kid

► 02:47:48

but yeah just you can definitely be addictive what you just is the only martial art where it really works like in the Bruce Lee movie where the little guy really can beat the big guy because the reality is like if you watch the old K1 days where Bob Sapp was fighting when Bob Sapp was 375 lbs with abs a you've never seen anything like he was he on steroids he was steroids there was nothing human left and he beat ornesto hoost twice who is arguably one of the top two or three greatest kickboxers ever and Bob Sapp just bum rush them and Donkey Kong them just beat them down with clubbing punches cuz he was so much bigger than them who is more than a hundred fifty pounds bigger than him probably I think we're hosting it at his biggest private 2:30 maybe to your point I was in Japan house with Dean as matter fact

► 02:48:48

you're a submitted sap that wasn't saying that wasn't a perfect example for a boy it had to be Nogueira though because sap sap dropped him on his head pile drive them on his head I saw him the next day no Gira like after the fight and he was hurt I mean he was beat up bad oh my God I took somebody was fucked up apparently forever after that I couldn't find his neck essentially never recovered after that fight you know that was one of the fights at fade or passed on federal wouldn't fight Bob Sapp it's like he take your fucking clown show take your circus act I know you're a psychic okay thanks on the Freakshow actually gigantism giant not giant like juice to the gills giant but Bob Sapp it means all power to him because they didn't have a law against it and he went in there and they were paying him and that's how we made a ton

► 02:49:48

how you doing that but the point is it in Jiu-Jitsu like maybe an MMA it's a little bit different cuz you know obviously Bob Sapp drop Nogueira on his head and the most people have been done then but Nogueira was legendarily top but a small man can tap out a much larger stronger man on a regular basis I watch Rico Rodriguez in Abu Dhabi go against Marcelo Garcia I was done through himself backwards and slammed on top of my like Marcel's I got back pack on Rico's back Rico's like 2:40 something maybe even heavier threw himself backwards and landed all his weight on Marcello myself shook it off and leg lock them credible mean Marcel was like a hundred and sixty pounds maybe 170 maybe but just so skilled and so dangerous with his Jiu-Jitsu that he was the favorite in that which is

► 02:50:48

and that's where I think that addiction comes in cuz I think it's the cerebal thing when people realize that it's real force one of my my kid ask me the movie The Incredibles super powers and my my son asked me a dad is there really such a thing as superpowers and I'm like

► 02:51:10

Jiu Jitsu is definitely a superpower you know if you remember the days before anybody knew it if you knew what little tiny bit bad you were just skip going to stop you is awesome it's also amazing to see the progression of Jiu Jitsu in comparison to 1993 because of Jiu-Jitsu of 1993 was so primitive in comparison to what you have today like the guys who are winning what you did to the setups we're so obvious you can see the armbars a mile away there was nothing crazy or weird about it and you look at that in comparison to today like a Jacare like when Jacare gets arm bars it's like a work of art me and you would you watch his setups you look good Lord like he tapped Chris camozzi with an armbar and I watch the transition the way he control them on the ground and scramble to arm but I probably watch it for tee times in a row I just played it back and forth when one more time

► 02:52:10

the pressure the hips everything's in place to control of the Armed it was it was a done deal from the moment he started his movements and now that to me so I think that's just as beautiful as any painting in anybody's ever made this is no doubt about that no doubt about it I had a pretty UFC we we knew when we watch the first UFC we all knew well there's there's three or four of us that knew that voice. Royce Gracie was going to race that's amazing we have been sold this old seal Master Chief old Vietnam era seal Master Chief is Steve Bailey and he was he was like a high-level white belt and he trained with foreign Gracie up in the garage and open Torrance and so we knew you know he knew Jujitsu I'll garage the infamous garage

► 02:53:10

but this guy Steve Bailey had trained there and you know one day we were over on deployment over and Guam and he said hey who who here wants to learn how to fight I don't like that I want to learn how to fight and he just took us all and just choked us all out in Omens like okay you you attack me and just choked so I'm like okay I'll listen to whatever this guy is saying so so he taught us you know the basic you don't like the rear naked choke and the arm lock and like The American or something like you two were talking like four or five different moves and with those moves like I never write every scrap I get into you know I just for someone to do a rear naked choke her forces have no idea what's happening so is that actually amazing but but again I thought at that time that that that that was Jujitsu I think there was this fine night thing a lot of people yeah and then you realize you know that it's completely on ending and it changes everyday Jean Jacque Machado had a guy that moved to black belt and he was a very good

► 02:54:10

martial artist use very physically strong this guy it was a big like bulky dude like a naturally Big Bone strong guy the gay people out of problems and then decided and like like I didn't just decide this but said it publicly I've learned all I could learn about you Jitsu and now I'm going to learn all I can learn about Muay Thai and everybody just went out dude we're done with you like it was like it was so ridiculed and it's just a community and in the people in John Jacque school that everybody like I was over to blue belt the time I was like what the fuck is this guy on like you learned everything how can you learn never to snow and Jiu-Jitsu doesn't you can always get better it's not it's not something until you achieve the speed of light and that's another another great thing about Jiu-Jitsu is because it like combat it reflects life and if the day you start saying that you're good to go like in leadership position or

► 02:55:10

Everett ask your working on the day you say I've learned everything there is to learn about this is the day you start to lose and I know that humility is something that you have to keep yourself in check because high point of leadership and I never had a high point of leadership I was always trying to learn I was trying to figure out what I was doing wrong and what mistakes I was making it cuz if you don't do that that's probably that's something I learned from Jiu Jitsu you know if you don't do that then that you can get passed by another people are going to figure something new way of doing it and you're going to be left in the dark as much as I like to use like the term that was perfect there really is nothing perfect in human beings there's always room for improvement is always a shorter path is always a quicker Victory there's always is always new things to learn and as soon as you start thinking that you've mastered something to the point of

► 02:56:10

of an end I give to you kind of missed out what it's all about in the first place it's all but you're constantly uncomfortable you supposed to be consoling comfortable and then in these little victories he got the good thing about it when people tap you get off I got a little nice feeling right here now because you're missing the point the point is that it's a it's a long path long arduous path and I think anything that's worth doing is probably like that there's no doubt about it and that's another another piece of getting another place where Jiu-Jitsu is like life

► 02:56:52

is you think at some point you think you know like you think you're good you think you're doing pretty good and then you just get smacked gets smacked with something and like now I don't like when you were twenty-five you would like I'm pretty I'm pretty good to go you know I'm but I pretty much know what's up and then when you're Thirty or like I didn't know anything was just twenty-two thousand years ago and it's true like even though I think one of the things that provide some small portion of like maturity as a human being and as a man to the point where you actually realize that you don't know everything and you're like looking at yourself like I'm 44 and I'm like yeah I'm going to learn so much in the next 3 years 5 years I'm a look at myself at 44 and go get to see how stupid you wear them and will you come to that realization I think that's a pretty positive thing because it takes a while to figure out that hey you don't have everything figured out you're you're pretty stupid right now even though it you don't

► 02:57:52

another thing that things like Jiu-Jitsu teach you and I said you did too but it's really an all martial arts thing the problem with the other martial arts other than Jiu-Jitsu is at a certain point time you can't really practice them 100% like striking really can't practice striking 100% for very long or your brain starts to give out just the fact and Jiu-Jitsu you can Jiu-Jitsu you can do it deep deep into your 50s mean there's like that where Anthony Bourdain is pushing sixty still doing it and you know it's not that he's going to be a world-beater but he can get the most out of it the most that he can get out of it it's it's it's it's stays the same like what you get out of it stays the same regardless of your regardless of the success like what you're getting out of it even if you're getting tapped will you getting out of his doing your best and overcoming and improving upon what your best is everyday and doing so in a situation where there is Extreme

► 02:58:52

consequences you going to get strangled you know you're going to get your arm broken if you don't tap your going to get your leg fucked up if you don't tap it's not as Extreme as combat obviously but it is is Extreme you can get in a sport that you're participating in an activity that you're participating in voluntarily in America at 5:30 on a Tuesday where you going to get 30 people that are going to show up slap hands together and then hug it out after it's over and go give you tomorrow yeah I'll see a man and then you know back again tomorrow same thing that's another kind of Primal piece that makes jiu jitsu

► 02:59:32


► 02:59:33

intense is if you and me roll

► 02:59:38

like can I get you or you get me and I tap

► 02:59:43

in my like heart I know that if you and I were fighting for survival I just lost and you killed me and I see this with little kids real kids compete you tell my lessons go out there have fun it's going to be fun you know just go out there and do your best I don't care if you win or lose just go out and have a good time you tell him that you tell him that you tell them that if they get tapped they start and it's so emotional why is that because a part of them inside their head that they don't even know exists know is that that person had they been in a mortal struggle they got beat they got their ass kicked yeah it's not like some of this is what I always say like so many dunks a basketball on you this sucks but it doesn't mean anything unless you decide it mean something off well what is basketball Escalade into

► 03:00:43

this is what it's it's the ultimate you know in combat sport again you know bar in combat itself it's a regression back to that the Primal days of caveman, Ballard some fat fuck wrote an article for like the New York or New York Post or something like that about the Ronda Rousey loss about how barbaric and disgusting it was and what up with what bulshit that we were fed and that you know we were made out that she was just uncomfortable in to watch her beaten unconscious was disgusting and you don't get it man like you don't get it like what you're doing with your fat face like shoving cheeseburgers down your mug is way worse than anything that she did inside that octagon it it's interesting because that kind of attitude

► 03:01:31

can cross borders and other things and you talk of people you know food through our company people that are SmartWool eating every like I'll be in a room with everyone went to an Ivy League College been super Seth when they're worth millions numbers if not hundreds of millions of dollars and I always give him one of these talks the other day and we can of course they ended up asking me about Isis sun and all that and as I'm sitting there looking at I'm thinking to myself like these people are all looking at me and thinking I'm just a Savage right I'm just like a I'm a knuckle dragger we just need to go kill everyone I tried to explain to them like listen

► 03:02:14

I almost I almost feel ashamed to say this to everyone here because everyone here is an intellectual and is very very smart but there are some problems in the world that there is not an academic solution to and sometimes violence is the solution and again there can be a million arguments against that

► 03:02:43

but the reality of it is in the world it's like you would talk about early in the world there are evil people that do evil things and the only way to stop them is to confront them and Destroy them

► 03:02:58

and unfortunately we we are so disconnected from that that it makes people look at UFC and go oh my God how could that happen that makes people look at you know a military attack and say oh my God how could that happen it can happen because we're human beings and we're in perfect and there are there are evil people in the world or the people that think there's no ever there's no excuse for a violent solution take those people bring them to remind me right now right I mean how do you deal with evil when it exists how do you deal with it do you do the hug them to knock on the door with flowers what do you do what is the solution I don't have an answer they have an ant the only reason why they even have that attitude is because they live here in the sheltered environment in our beautiful bubble we call the United States of America

► 03:03:52

many brave men and women have provided and will continue to provide regardless of what is said about them and God bless those folks out there on the wire yes sir and with that extreme ownership those 3 hours man just banging out three hours damn crazy right here Jocko willink and Leif leaf leaves late Valium lathe Babin extreme ownership how US Navy Seals lead and win and Jocko is on Twitter Jocko willink on Twitter or so it is Jocko willink and what is it on the of anything else website well we have a Facebook for extreme ownership we have an extreme ownership Twitter yeah we're out there in the social media World broadcasting ourselves and Sunnah podcast right and I will I will do a podcast Echo Charles be ready to record a podcast brother thank you very much sir this is awesome I really really appreciate it and I will put up a link on Amazon

► 03:04:52

stop the podcast so go out by this but folks thank you very much I appreciate it for lunch around me on

► 03:04:58

Hartley's gentlemen thank you tune into the podcast and thank you to our sponsors thanks to onnit.com go to Onnit use the code word Rogan and save 10% off any and all supplements thanks to me and he's the most comfortable underwear in the motherfuking world go to meet undies.com Rogan right now to get 20% off your first order that's right is that real

► 03:05:29

plus all orders in the USA Canada always ship for free thanks to mvmt that's movement mvmt watches go to mvmt watches. Com Rogan and get 15% off your entire purchase at an excellent watch a huge bargain on a super high-quality watch thanks also to stamps.com go to stamps.com click on the microphone at the top of the home page and type in JRE that's stamps.com and enter in j r e all right thanks so much everybody appreciate the fuck out of you tomorrow my guess will be the great Demetrious Mighty Mouse Johnson the best pound-for-pound fighter on the planet and a really cool unassuming intelligent young man and that will be Wednesday then on Thursday we have the one and only Bert the motherfuking machine

► 03:06:29

I sure with Brian Redban whole boys should be a giggle fast and will probably be drunk as fuck so that would be on Thursday but tomorrow Mighty Mouse stand. Until then that's it podcast is over why still listening God damn it's over more than I can ever express I've said all the time but I truly truly mean it nothing but love thank you so much bye bye they kiss