#1254 - Dr. Phil

The Joe Rogan Experience #1254 - Dr. Phil

February 26, 2019

Dr. Phil McGraw is an author, psychologist, and the host of the television show "Dr. Phil."

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ladies and gentlemen welcome to the show how's it going out there hope all is groovy with you this episode of the podcast is brought to you by 23andMe. 23andMe genetic reports I did it I enjoyed finding out a lot of cool stuff about myself 23andMe allows you to go beyond just your ancestry and also allows you to access more personalized insights about you based on your DNA with more than 125 genetic report you can even gain insights about your health traits and more receiving your personalized genetic reports is just the beginning you can take the next steps by talking to your healthcare provider or considering Lifestyle Changes like adjusting your sleep habits or caffeine consumption based on your genetics did you know sleep report is big if you've always suspected that you may be more sleepy than others after missing out on a night of sleep you might not be imagining

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my guest today is a great man that is a gem and you might have seen him on television for decades giving advice and being on point and he's just a cool guy to hang out with I really enjoy him I'm very good friends with his son so thank you Jay for setting it up please welcome the Great and Powerful Dr. Phil

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The Joe Rogan Experience

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dr. Phil with lots of going on

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he'll let him worry out of all the years you've been doing your show and all the years you could give advice how do they catch me outside girl lives with her mother and her mother actually brings her on a course and she's Trainwreck and we work with her and we send her to this Ranch for like 4 months right she goes for a long time and makes a complete turnaround become a leader she's working with all these girls doing a great job

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and then she graduates and I remember this last shot and we do this this piece at the ranch she jumps up on this fence and is smiling and everything and waving it all one night home with her mother one night and her mother's finding people that are trashing her the mother on on the social media platforms her mother tracks him down backs into who they are gets their phone numbers calls them up yelling into the phone calling them names and stuff gets the daughter involved one night crashes come back for a follow-up I don't know month or two later and when they come I say okay we're going to go back they walk out I have the audience completely empty I have nobody there to play to I mean 250 chairs empty nobody in the house but me the mother and the daughter that's been loved and they go

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don't need anybody to talk you know keep things rolling right and they were dumbstruck they look for play to and there's like a 15-minute off to go and then this phrase that got turned into a you know whatever a meme or whatever they call it it just went crazy and what she was nominated for a Grammy or something Siri I'm serious so I'm I take no credit or blame you know I just did what I could and haven't seen her since I wish everybody well maybe she'll turn so maybe it'll grow up she'll turn some bazzi. But I hope so that's a very good attitude very healthy attitude for you but it is when something goes viral like that something strange that for whatever reason it catches

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takes off its it doesn't make any sense is a very weird thing that makes no sense billboard on Sunset a giant billboard really huge enormous billboard it's like one of those side of the building Billboards they put the graphic up and cover the entire building makes no sense seriously can't find it with both hands. Does she have talent if you ever heard any more music now I've no idea I've seen her on your show so strange that the one train wreck could for whatever reason catch on and then all the sudden it's gigantic

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close to $1000000 from a Makeup Company

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really yeah well there you go I mean if that's happening right like what would your advice be then would your advice be hey get your shit together and stop being crazy when she's making a lot of money off of being crazy and her opportunities before that were probably severely limited well they had to be and what I hope now even though the certainly is a cork what I hope now is that she's surrounded by mature people with business heads on their shoulders and development people that will actually God this in a way that it's not 15 minutes never know how people make fun of them and there's some good things here to make fun of they do things to be made fun of but there's also some very smart business and Brew

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sending this gone into that as well with her that she actually went to the White House to talk about prison reform for people that are unjustly accused in her being been in jail for too long for things that they didn't do and that's something she's actually passionate about and she's actually a very nice girl very smart very brilliant branding and it's certainly paid off just so fascinating with something catches like that girl what is her name the catch me outside girl. Yeah cuz I didn't know where is the catch me outside girl but if she didn't say that one phrase

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yeah and you should have said that I think to her grandmother or somebody in the audience I know you didn't even register with us at the time is in the interview or anything it just passed by somebody just grabbed it and then it became a meme

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what a weird world we live in jail no kidding what is it mean it has to be a lot of responsibility to try to give people advice and try to straighten your life out and show them the the flaws in the errors they're making people ask me sometimes

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our problems music problems are simple as you make him out to be the truth is I don't think problems are simple at all in fact I think problems are really most of the time pretty complex the pretty layered they have a lot of different Origins and they're awesome X kill more of a lot of things exist together so I don't think problems are simple at all but two solutions are often simple don't you think I mean it's got like the old joke you know the doctor and he said he this hurts and he said well then don't do that anymore. It's a lot of times it's very simple in it somebody will have a complex thing that comes from childhood or maybe it's a drug background or they had trauma in their life but the solution is change your behavior I mean stop rewarding bad behavior choose a different path in life just behave your way to success sometimes the solutions are very simple Eve

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the problems are very complex because it's some point you have to stop focusing on fly and start focusing on what has happened what am I going to do to change it so sometimes the solutions are pretty simple but implementing those Solutions are often the very it's often very difficult for people to change their lives change their patterns it is in patterns is the key nobody does anything in pattern if they don't get a payoff

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if you can identify that's why that's why you inside so important that's why I think it's the number one outcome to whether somebody's going to respond to a talking therapy for example if somebody can identify what their payoff is where they really can figure out I'm doing this repeatedly and my payoff is I don't have to work or I don't get held accountable for this or I'm escaping accountability over here or I get attention or sympathy or if they can figure out what their payoff is

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and I can then control that with his for themselves or their kids or whatever if you control the currency then you can control the behavior it just seems that people have they have this comfort in their patterns and even if the panels are self-destructive events drug abuse or alcoholism or did those those the Comfort Inn those patterns falling in those patterns it seems very compelling to alarm people in playoffs don't necessarily mean that it's a positive pay off I mean the payoff for taking heroin as you get high and so you're not a positive pay off what is a payoff and if you if you get high and so you don't get a job and you don't take care of your kids that's a payoff that you're not doing things that you need to do that you should be accountable for its a pathological payoff but it's a payoff none the less and so that does reward you even though it's a pathologic

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payoff it's a pathological thing you call it a reward and it if you but if you can identify that what I said look I'm not doing what I need to do and I need to stop rewarding myself in that way in the hole myself County to be there for my kids I tell my kid I'm going to be there every day and I don't show up cuz I'm high on drugs then you know I need to stop doing I don't need to not let myself get away with that and instead require myself to show up for the kid when I say I do say I will and then you see what's in the kids eyes you share the experience with them now that becomes your payoff so then you'll start showing it for your kid how many people take your advice how many people just listen to try for a little bit and then bail

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you know it is hard to say because

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I think are sometimes our most productive guest

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are the ones that don't get it because the mail we get they'll say oh wow that guy didn't get her to that woman to get it but I saw myself in them and I'll never say that again I saw them being such a right fighter or I saw them being so hard-headed or so oppositional I heard them say things I've said and they left and didn't get it I got it I'll never do that again so sometimes those that don't get it at all are the ones are the best teaching tools for the millions of people that are home watching it when you watch people fail and you go oh okay I see that of myself I just got to not do with that guy to and then also you see the stubborn pigheadedness that some people have when they won't listen to advice and you could clearly see how they're ruining their lives by not being on

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and sometimes a story that we might have is maybe extreme where you say I don't do all six things they're doing but I do two of them and they are in sharp relief to me so I can get that thing to do that anymore so I mean that's where I think you get a payoff and if people go and find these things on the internet I mean last year and we have a channel that we put up meal different clips from divorce shows are parenting shows or whatever and we had over two billion views in the last year of people just going and finding out information looking at itself

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I know people are seeking the information out and looking at be on the show itself so they must be seeking information and we just don't have a good distribution system for mental health in America so I think they look at the things are hungry for and they look for how many people out there that are trying to do better for trying to get their lives in order and you know shows like yours and you know just advise show if you were giving out inspiration and knowledge it's so it's such a an important thing for people especially for people that didn't grow up with wise parents or maybe a good support system around them I think that's that's true and I grew up with a alcoholic father and it was a pretty violent home and and he was a really bad alcoholic and I know

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having grown up in that you wind up with what I call a damaged personal truth and you feel second-class and the problem that kids make up cuz I know I did it and I see others do it is you compare your personal truth what you know about yourself you know how you really live and what's really going on you compare your personal truth to everybody else's social mask cuz you go to school and you know well I know that last night the windows got kicked out of my house I know that the utilities got turned off and I know there was a big fight in my kitchen last night and the kids sit next to me he's got on a shirt that's all I earned his face is all bright and clean and you know he looks like he's just got it all together and you compare yourself to that person that kid

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you feel like your second class and the problem with that is we generate the results in life we think we deserve

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so if you think you're damaged you think your second class you will generate

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results that you think a second-class person deserves so if you don't fix your personal truth then you'll spend the rest of your last saying well you know those really good results those belong to somebody else who is not for me that's for somebody else and you'll settle for second-best and you won't get what you might otherwise generate for yourself if you don't fix your personal truth

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and so I like a lot of people are struggling looking for a way to kind of get out of feeling not good about themselves and damaged self-esteem dami self-worth and they really don't know where to go so that's why I do show I don't look I'm not under the misapprehension that we're doing 8-minute cures up there man come on we're not doing that but I think if you can point people in the right direction if you can raise their awareness you can get them thinking about it you can create a narrative where they at least say you know how do I feel about myself I mean is there stuff I need to resolve or mean what am I saying to myself you can get them thinking about that maybe you've done something once said once that it's incremental changes over the Long Haul in the way you have to look at it as if these two boats are going to the parallel Direction and one of them just sits 5 degrees over the course of time this boat is going to be in a far different place than the other both is going the same way it was always going

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the important thing to realize as well as the next year is going to go by whether you're doing something about your life or not I mean we're sitting here right now at the end of February and

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the next 10 months are going to go by whether somebody is working to make change of whether they're not and they may think you know how my God I'm so far away. I'll never get it under control so behind in my bills are I'm so depressed everything is so out of control changes and then pretty soon in December you go hey I'm way better off and I was at the end of February so you make little changes and they all added up

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and if you don't by the end of the year you just in deeper so every little bit matters I tell people to write things down I said one of the best ways to get things done is to write things down write down what you trying to get done write down what you need to get done on a long-term basis which need to get done on a short-term basis I write off a checklist force yourself be accountable, Billy's gigantic you got to have somebody it would hurt yourself or a friend or somebody that's going to say look did you do what you said you were going to do by this time and if you don't hold your feet to the fire because just sit around dreaming someday and someday I'm going to get a different job someday I'm going to change this will some day of the week

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Hillary's Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturday Sunday look on your counter some days not on there so you got to say OK I want to take this small step by here this most it by there this most hit by there and then pretty soon you know we don't leaps tall buildings in a single bound we take it a Florida time and that man has he been doing your show you've developed a real Community right I mean really have made an impact you stop and think about all the people that your shows touched and all the people that have listened to your advice and all the people that have taken that advice and and made those little incremental changes in their lives and set those goals and tell themselves accountable and that's a pretty significant thing well I hope so I mean I know that

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there's a stigma attached to mental illness

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that really bothers me there should not be I mean having depression or anxiety or whatever to me you should have no more stigma than having a knee injury or kidney infection or diabetes but there is the stigma attached to it and I've tried to talk about this in a way where it's okay to talk about it and not be ashamed of it it's it's okay if you got anxiety you got PTSD whatever it's okay let's talk about it let's get help for it get it behind you and move on Snapchat mean she should be ashamed of what do you when you talking to someone that maybe has depression do you try to get them to exercise first you try to get them to visit a psychiatrist immediately and get on medication like to take it on a case-by-case basis well I do but I'm not saying it any better than you

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Yale sis but I do have a philosophy about it and I'm very slow to medication I mean I think you use medication

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for biochemical replacement I mean if for some reason your body is not making enough of something it needs then maybe you support it short-term biochemically

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I look at depression like there's a lot of ways you can break it up but I look at it like is it Exxon Janice depression or in dodging this depression I mean is it coming from the inside out

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or the outside and is it because you're reacting to something I see a lot of depressed people that

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in a sense it makes sense look at your life and you say well if you're not down about this you shouldn't be I mean you've lost your job you've gotten a divorce your health is going to shatter your I mean you should be down about this it's external things so you don't need a pill I mean put somebody in a chemical straight jacket because their life's falling apart what the hell's going to do but that's just putting goggles on them where they can't see it I would much rather get them to behave their way to success and say what are you reacting to that you're depressed about let's put that on a to-do list and start like you said write it down and start Crossing those things off lipstick what's an action plan to change this action plan to change the next thing I think and then when you start doing that you generally see their mood lift a lot of people that are depressed or just realistic

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acting to a crummy circumstance in their life it's not necessarily a mental illness it's just a really realistic reaction to a bad spot in their life that's such a good way of putting it to that if you warrant in a bad State looking at this might be something wrong with you if you got a divorce lost your job your kids are alienated from you and you're saying Vine

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you're not in touch with reality you should be bothered by that and to give somebody a pill to mask your feelings about that just keeps you off task I don't you paint a good motivator I grew up in like Texas and Oklahoma and I don't know you've ever done this but we were I used to spend my summers in the thriving Metropolis of Monday Texas you ever heard of Monday Texas now it's m u n it's a u not an o m u n d a y Scott like 2000 people in it but in the Summers it would get hot in Monday texts about what I say hi. I mean you look out in the backyard in your dog burst into flames it's whatever I'll bet so we would be going to the swimming pool or something barefooted and you get halfway across an asphalt road

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you look down in your I mean like holyshit me your feet or just on fire so what are you going to do I mean that is painful you're going to do one or two things are going to make a U-turn and get your ass back over to the side of the road and get in the grass or you going to run to the other side and get off the road and get in the grass but you're not going to stand there in the middle of the road and melt yourself down to the knees

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pain is a motivator pain is not necessarily always bad if you're in pain it's going to motivate you to move to change something in the match that with drugs to dull pain with drugs is not necessarily a good thing that is Wise Wise advice and I wish more people thought that would potentially more doctor so you know I have so many friends that have gone to a doctor cuz I'm not feeling so good they're almost immediately wanting to throw him on something you know if you noticed like was depression as prevalent like the term depression over it doesn't mean I don't really remember it being a thing when I was a kid there was discuss the ways discuss now now it's discuss the way people discuss all sorts of other ailments is it just an awareness thing or is it just people are thinking about it now in different terms well I think it's part of the social media

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with the internet not to social media but with the internet I think there's just a lot more it's a lot more in the nomenclature and there's a lot more awareness about it but I think it was just as prevalent in the fifties and sixties is it was now but in the fifties and sixties there wasn't a psychologist on every corner and there wasn't sub doctor licensing then you mean you what does that mean you had to have a PhD or an MD is a psychiatrist to see patients now they have marriage and family therapist a licensed social workers they have different levels where you can do independent practice so that's broaden the number of people that can provide services and some people think that's a good thing some people think it's not I generally think it's a it's a good thing cuz I think

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58% of our rule markets today have no psychiatrist available and something like 50 or roughly have no mental health professional available at all none so there's just nobody available to help people in the outlying areas so I think the more people you can get into the profession so long as there's a degree of Competency is better but I think it's always been prevalent I just think people didn't talk about it very much it's just something I swallowed where they took the church or rear you know

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when you see you know these all these folks that are on medication today I mean how many of these people do you think legitimately should be on medication I mean is it something you can assess

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you're right I can't answer that and terms I mean I'm sure there's research of people how many people are on medication but in my personal experience

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most of the people that I see on medications in my opinion don't need most of the medications they're on now that's just anecdotal as my opinion he asked me to hand you research survey or study to support that I can't hand it to you or I can point you to wines tell you after 45 years in this experience

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I see people that are on medication they've usually seen someone for 6 or 8 minutes

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and said you know I'm really feeling kind of down a group or some Prozac here is this here's that they give it to him and I don't even really ask why and they just give it to him because medicine is become a high-volume business and that's not necessarily the doctor's fault I mean the way that it's now funded and Medicare and Medicaid you got a tournament or you can't stay in business and so it's a high-volume business and so they throw pillows at him cuz they don't have an hour to sit down and don't take an hour to see what's funny what's going on is there a reason like I said this guy's got five parts of his life

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then they should be having for mood so why mask that was come up with an action plan and change it so most of the people I see on medication not all but most of the people I see are on too many medications in too high a dose or either don't need it at all and I'm really bothered by polypharmacy that's where I really get frustrated this is a very common sense approach but it it's not the norm today it seems like more people are treating this you know air quotes depression issues if it's a medical disorder like like diabetes or something we need medication

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it look for a lot of people that works I mean yeah you can people with mood elevator and they say I feel better and then maybe they change their life maybe they move their life into a more positive direction to can wean themselves off of it because one of the things about depression for example use as an example is you get what's referred to as psychomotor retardation there's a there's a lessening in activity level and I think old sayings get to be all things because their profound like you're not going to get hit if you're not swinging well if you're depressed and so you think slower

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less actively you behave less actively your chance of getting rewarded goes down right you don't get out there and you don't mix it up socially is much you don't apply for jobs as much you're not as productive on your job is much so you're less likely to get strokes you less likely to get rewarded

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well maybe you go take a pill and it lifts your mood up so you get more active and so now you can start getting pants on the back you start getting people to engage with you more so that lift your mood and that takes care of it so you took the medication short-term your lifted back up in your okay short-term it can be an alternative but I've seen people on everything from opioids to mood elevators for years and that's where you lose me. Don't get it I know people have been on things since they were five years old there in the forties and then you have wastebasket diagnosis like ADD and ADHD where

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what used to be a spoiled brat is now add or ADHD so they start prescribing these Ritalin neocortical stimulants like Ritalin and if you give a kid that does not need a neocortical stimulant a stimulant

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you're really going to throw them off to charge now cuz you're you got a normally active brain that you are now making hyperactive so you're creating a problem that didn't exist before you give the medication because you didn't do the proper diagnosis yeah I had my old neighbor had a situation like that they had a kid and the kid was just had a lot of energy and they weren't paying attention to him and so they started medicating them it's insanely common not chemically babysit your children and who knows where these kids going to be 20-30 years from now and we're just looking at this rash of people being treated for these ailments are quotes and then when it will not see how this all turns out in the long run and how much damage would doing these people know on the other end of the Continuum I have seen some people that are clearly psychotic skitzofrenix delusional

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that without medication or absolutely impossible to manage but if you put them on antipsychotics and so you can lower their delusional Behavior their hallucinatory behavior so you can now have a meaningful conversation with him so they can respond to talking therapies it makes all the difference in the world and without those antipsychotics you would be lost without them so there are some medications for some disorders that are absolute Miracles that without them you would be able to do the work you need to do to get the person back where they need to be is definitely a lot of great pharmaceutical drugs that help a lot of people do you can't push back from a lot of these positions from the establish medical community

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feel sometimes but mostly when you talk to people about it thoughtfully

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they agree with with what I'm saying I mean most people will agree that you need to be thoughtful about prescribing medications and that medications are too readily administered I mean that's certainly what we've seen in the opioid epidemic right now opioids are so readily prescribed right now that there are enough opioid prescriptions for every man woman and child in America that have their own bottle

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and if you renew that prescription one time

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one time if you are taking those opioids at the 7-Day Mark your chance of being addicted at 1 year is 1 and 12 and if you renew it at if you're still taking the 30 days your likelihood of being addicted is one in three

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and these things are getting written with way too high a pill count and it's in so the addictions that we're seeing a whole different kind of addiction now coming out of the suburbs and they take him for a while and they're very expensive and actually take him for a while heroines cheaper so they don't the opioids and start taking heroin so you're saying soccer mom heroin addicts that you weren't seeing 10 years ago because they get started on prescription opioids and then they can afford them or finally the doctor Cuts them off but they're addicted and so they start taking heroin cuz it's cheaper this obviously very disturbing pattern but where did she is going like when you look at the future and mean it looks bleak in that regard to me I've known several people that have had real problems with bills

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the problem is that I think people have is they think because of doctor gave me this because it's on a fraction pad that this is safe your body doesn't know whether you got that the back alley where you got it from a doctor it still has the same addictive quality and I think it is at an epidemic level in I've testified before Congress about this and I think there are several levels of accountability at the manufacturing level and at the prescription level and at the educational level so people understand I think everybody has to take part of it and I'm doing everything I can to raise the awareness about it as well before Congress what was the reaction

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they're very much aware that this has become a serious serious problem because the the cost that is as you see the Lost labor in the workforce is in the billions of dollars you see the the demands on the healthcare system that this is creating young mothers with the with children and babies born addicted to these opioids I mean the numbers are just going through the roof so I mean it's putting a strain financially on the healthcare system that it just can't stand so you start costing money and it starts getting politicians attention so they start saying okay now we got to start doing something so they get it they get that there's a problem what could they do though once and it seems like one side Genie's out of the bottle

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well clearly you've got to start educating people and

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the manufacturers have to be required to start labeling this much more clearly Physicians have to be much more conservative in prescribing I just had to shoulder surgery and I took like 1:1 opioid one pill they gave me in the hospital and after that if you can manage it was like Tylenol or something cuz of Surgeons now or so good with the orthoscopic surgeries and stuff so much less of an insult to the body that was ice and Tylenol stuff you can manage it if you just kind of focus on it a little bit and I'm not saying you if you had surgery and you're having organic pain

► 00:43:41

for god sakes good head of the pain stay head but when you as soon as you can get off of it and get off of it and understand what's happening when your keys and go have some surgery I mean ship it hurts take the pill get past it but realized the minute you can get away from that you need to get away from it but the other day don't need to give you a 30-day Supply need to give you 3 or 4 days and then you got to go see your doctor again if it's still a problem discuss it I mean that's what that that's what I think needs to happen to just be a lot more concerned about what you're giving these pharmaceutical companies make so much money they don't want they don't want to back off that they got private jets in Jansen pay for their starting to shut down some of these memories pill clinics in pain clinics in Florida where you can go in without an x-ray without an MRI and just say you had back pain and there was a doctor there that would give you a 90 count for

► 00:44:41

on-the-spot no-questions-asked 90 and you're out the door when you go down straight to the next one cuz it was no database no database and that doctor might be a foreign doctor that flew in from offshore road all the prescriptions during the day flew off again at night and now they're shutting that stuff down so that the Hammers coming down one can only hope when you can do in your show as long as you've been doing it and I'm sure you you've made it kind of loot what would makes you want to do a podcast why do men that will my interest has been

► 00:45:21

you're saying there's a lot of people getting their information on the internet

► 00:45:27

but getting clips of the show and that sort of thing

► 00:45:31

it's clear to me

► 00:45:34

that is the population is changing you know I'm an old guy but younger people are getting them information in different ways you know I'm going to the internet and the digital menu

► 00:45:49

has got to be readily available and you can reach a lot of people that way that you wouldn't reach the other way there's a whole population that's not going to watch broadcast television during the day and there's a whole population that's watching broadcast television during the day that maybe isn't on in the digital space and if I can get a crossover between the two and you can get a bigger audience to spread your message then you know that's what you're doing up my goal is to spread the message and get what I think's important to say out there so I mean I'll shout it from the rooftops if that's what I can if I think that's effective I want to do anything that's scalable

► 00:46:33

to get the message out there and and to me I'm doing I'm doing some different things in the podcast and I'm doing on the show on the show I've got a fact pattern in front of ghost story I got family going to individuals it's got a specific factor and I'm dealing with that fact pattern

► 00:46:53

in the podcast I'm not solving a problem I don't have somebody there

► 00:46:57

that has a problem for me to solve I'm just talking to people that I find interesting and I'm able to talk to him about whatever I want to talk to you about and discuss things like you and I are talking about I think this is what we've been talking about is an important discussion and I welcome the opportunity to have that discussion and I don't have time to do that when I'm talking about somebody is sitting here saying you know I think my kid is on the precipice of overdosing or is really in trouble and then I got to focus on that I don't have time to pontificate about such things as the opioid epidemic or the philosophy of pills versus therapy and things of that nature

► 00:47:43

cuz I have to give all my attention to the store in front of me in the podcast environment like we're doing now I can't talk about things that I think people need to hear I think it's if they don't they don't have to listen if they're interested it's there so I like it being more free form and me being able to talk about things they weren't talking about what makes people a champion like I talk to Tony Romo right after the Superbowl about came from Eastern Illinois University as like a what nine students or something is a little bit of University and he turns out to be

► 00:48:21

quarterback of America's team for 14 years set all kinds of records and then goes to the booth and becomes a number one color analyst and television me champion champion champion why you're what is it what do you tribute that too I like asking those questions yeah I hear people talk what do you say to young people about that what made you a champion are you going to let your kids play football but with all the CTE and stuff what what do you say I'm at I like having those kind of conversation do the same thing with Shaq and Charles Barkley and different people what did he say about what makes you a champion

► 00:48:56

for him

► 00:48:59

he said that

► 00:49:01

he has to some

► 00:49:05

he says he didn't see one that kind of swagger sort of person that you came in cocky like you was going to own the field and own the game but inside

► 00:49:17

he said he had this absolute drive that if he didn't win

► 00:49:25

he couldn't live with it it's like if somebody thought that you played the game somebody beat them beat him

► 00:49:34

just the idea that that person went home thinking that they were better than him that they could beat him

► 00:49:42

that she just couldn't eat sleep pink until he got back and owned it again and got back to it he said he just is just drive to win and so he would that mean he said he would be out at 1 in the morning in the dome throwing a pass that

► 00:50:01

that route got intercepted you got jumped on that route and he be trying to figure out why on Thursday and practice he saw what he needed to see why didn't he see it on Sunday and he would analyze and analyze and analyze until he could get there until he could do it until he could win it be just had to drive to win Super unhealthy Obsession they all share that Michael Jordan had that I mean we've talked about that several times on the podcast so many people that are extreme winners there's psychotic in there except obsession with winning that's all they want to do and if they lose they had a date it's almost insufferable they almost can't deal with it I don't know if that's necessarily a bad thing but the difference between winners and losers his winners do things losers do not want to do they will get up in the middle of the night they will do this they will do that they feel it more they just do things losers don't want to do that pay a price

► 00:51:01

losers just don't want to pay not worth it and every winner has been a loser in a success only Journey

► 00:51:15

God have boring would that be me you think it would be great because I like eating ice cream every meal. The fourth meal you're going to be thinking let's kill something and eat it while it's like who you talking about about depression about that bad feelings will motivate you to change if you're in a bad feeling if you're if you're in a bad state in your life that pain is an amazing motivator and even though it feels terrible at the time it can Propel you to a new and better life because you don't ever want to experience that again and make you grow and be a better person what's your currency I mean cuz you say your you've done your show a long time and probably don't need the money

► 00:51:58

but there are different kinds of currency right I mean you don't always work for one kind of currency I mean every year when we wrap our season

► 00:52:10

I kind of take a month and let everybody go unwrap know just kind of unwind and relax and kick back and do whatever they want to do

► 00:52:19

and then we start meeting and focusing on okay how can we reinvent ourselves for next season how can we tell our stories better how can we broaden our Horizons do things different so that we raise our game cuz we're kind of competing with ourselves

► 00:52:39

there's no we're coming a category by ourselves we don't want it does what we do and we've been number one for a long time because I got a really hard-working team but we're nobody else tries to do what we do so we're kind of competing with ourselves and so we work real hard to figure out how can we have a bigger impact how can we tell this more effectively what techniques can we come up with that make this even more powerful more impactful than what it is and that's what that's what really gets me moving that's why I would imagine you move towards doing a podcast where it's less restrictive and more open-ended and kind of do whatever you want but it's that's pretty cool that at all these years of doing that and giving out advice he's still find this this passion to to make it better and to do it from a different angle

► 00:53:36

I'm is excited about we're just about to wrap you know are 17 season 17 seasons has a lot on 3800 Oprah for five years before so that's has 22 years and then then I just renewed for five years ago I renewed it out to 2023 or whatever before you sign that like when you enjoy it you can tell you get bored right if it gets for me late for me it'll be for me like for the viewer

► 00:54:30

and I don't want that to happen in and we do a lot of news stories and stuff and that keeps it fresh because you don't know what's going to break in the news tomorrow so we do most of the really big news stories and we don't break the news stories we go behind the headline talk about here's what really happened to Paul Harvey says here's the rest of the story what you read the headline to hear Sears the rest of the story and I really like doing that I really like getting into that

► 00:55:02

well it is when you're doing this on your podcast one of the beautiful things about that is that you know you can explore these ideas without commercial breaks you don't have to have anybody telling you what to do you could just split whatever is interesting to you is that how you pick the subjects in the people that you're talking to those who fly spotting I spend a lot of money book on Liars by spotting on Deception detection because I spent a lot of time in the litigation Arena interrogation techniques industry was sooner food for a couple billion dollars and them

► 00:55:53

I represented her in that case and that's that's how we met and drop me I had Pam on and we both worked a lot in deception detection and then interrogation techniques and stuff so just and it came right at the time when is jussie Smollett is in the news about she telling the trees are not telling truth and in here we have this conversation what did you think of mediately when you heard that story I was very suspicious with Jamie and I will shut that once the cameras are off for like of these off

► 00:56:29

it was just too much like a movie with a bad movie I mean it's nine below zero and two people are lying in wait to Stanhope City might come by at 2 a.m. so strange he's going to get it yeah he's going to get it now he's saying is some untreated drug problem so he's trying to carve out some path to explain his bizarre behavior but they're a very very very specific why Behavior said

► 00:57:11


► 00:57:13

can't really control like what kind of stuff well for example

► 00:57:19

when when people are really desperately trying to convince you they're telling the truth they'll do a lot of times what are called convincing statements rather than just telling you what to do to didn't do that do convincing statements like you know me like somebody somebody stole the petty cash in the office if you know me I give more my I donate more money than was stolen healing you guys know me I mean I feel dirty this convincing you this is as nice guy and then they'll see the accused what does someone do with their wrongly accused of the look you straight up in the eye and tell you I didn't do it and if so what do you think should happen to somebody that did

► 00:58:16

are there some person will say I think they should be fine I think you should be held fully accountable to the extent of the law somebody that steals he was worried that in coaching that you're essentially coaching Liars by telling people this kind of stuff and somebody does steal the money be able to kind of like a it's not for amateurs when you there are some things that

► 00:58:51

you can tell people to watch for but one of the things you do if there's somebody that you suspect as you increase their cognitive load during the interrogation and there's no way you can prepare for that know how to do that well

► 00:59:09

you plan in mind virus for example of Perry Mason type shyt

► 00:59:20

like if I could send some money is missing somebody would have told me that they saw you near that cash box about the time it went missing people talk at 125 words a minute

► 00:59:43

they think at 12 to 1400 words a minute

► 00:59:47

now if it takes you 5 5 Seconds to tell me no

► 00:59:52

you took the money

► 00:59:55

because if you were nervous right now if you didn't take it you know you didn't take it you don't need to run scenarios through your head to think who could have seen me what I didn't see anybody know what he could have seen me what you do but if you didn't do it it doesn't take you one millisecond to say absolutely not have you ever been wrong before we see someone on television to go I think that guy is guilty and they're innocent or vice a versa sure because if you really want to know for sure if somebody is guilty or innocent you need to invest a lot of time you need to get a baseline on what they normally look like talk like feel like and then baking in knowing that bass line you didn't need to compare how they're behaving on TV so just walking by the screen and seeing it you might see things that would ordinarily be like

► 01:00:55

behaviors that could just be part of their personality so if you're going to really make a judgment you got to put a lot of time in and figure it out and what you should do before you decide you're going to be a human lie detector is do your homework and you don't try to figure it out objectively before you figure it out Behavior me when y'all do your investigation find out if somebody took the money and you'll find out where they were in your look for fingerprints and do this and do that to me. Really objectively figure it out before you rely on these things and so unless you get a Baseline and get one-on-one with them and spend a lot of time then you can't be you can't be really certain that you know whether they're telling the truth or whether or not it's it would be fun if it was that easy

► 01:01:52

is that some people are pretty obvious yeah I heard a cop once say that when people are guilty they tend to plead and cry and then when they're not guilty they tend to get angry when they are accused people that are wrongly accused are generally irate from the beginning till the end I mean every case is different but if you're wrongly accused the person is going to be pissed off from the minute you accuse them till the end because it's like their self-righteous like I can do this and you're saying I did screw you yeah and they don't take a step back and

► 01:02:33

when you you see people they do these convincing statements and they're pleading for you to believe them and then

► 01:02:46

in all honesty

► 01:02:50

usually the next thing out of the mouth of why we bracketing this one out is all right or if they invoke the deity God as my witness and I don't know whether I have not done what I said you need to do with Jesse Smollett but I do know when he went to the show at the fox

► 01:03:27

he said

► 01:03:30

you all know me

► 01:03:33

I swear to God I didn't do this

► 01:03:38

they're like three or four of those kind of statements in like two or three sentences are my favorite ones she's onstage to call himself a gay Tupac that's enough for me that's a little narcissistic it's a strange thing though I like there was another one today a guy with his house on fire and think in Chicago and said that he's gay fella said was a hate crime and then they caught them

► 01:04:08

so I'm not going on you know about a fake crime very strange the deed then then sometimes people accuse people of something and someone will say why would why would someone make something up why would someone turn themselves into a victim with it a lot of clout and being a victim especially today is a lot of you get a lot of attention a lot of love I think there's a lot of false accusations and false attacks and it's a lot of real ones but man when the false ones, but it just doesn't giant to service to everybody so there's a fair amount of research as to why people

► 01:04:43

do these hoaxes and prickly hate crime hoaxes and one of the primary motivation of course it's sympathy and attention and all that but one of the interesting reasons that I've read in the research is that

► 01:04:58

they really feel like it's emblematic of how the system treats them over all this is just a dramatic example of it really feel like I'm treated this way anyhow so they're just young discriminated against I suffer by us I'm put down this is just stay focused example of that so I'm really not lying I'm just role-playing how I'm over all treated oh wow so they justified in their mind if they're just going to bring all this treatment into one example to bring it into focus and so while it's a Sony deal it really is truthful representation of what their life is really like they justified in that way I know how weird and that's that's a deep psychological right there yeah that's that's stretching put it in your mind that way

► 01:05:58

it's just strange to because it gives people this this is such a giant public show to watch now that I've seen I don't watch that show a lot but the times I've seen him on there singing and assuming it is his voice and he's singing streamly talented young man I find a lot of town to people are fucking crazy well if somebody said that the really talented singers and actors for the weird kids from high school that win drama and all but you know some of the most brilliant actors are completely out of their mind and that's one of the reasons why they're so good at acting is cuz they can look my friend my friend Wayne Federman have a bit they did about on stage and he's like guess what

► 01:06:58

it's not fucking normal to be able to just cry because you could just cry and pretend something's wrong and cry as they that's crazy these are crazy people you really can't go to a certain place if you don't have a little of that in you my dad used to always say when he's working with patients who take there's something about that oh boy I can't stand about me you don't have a little levity in you and yeah it is a hundred percent reason that that is a thing that Rising the craziest about weak people I'm so terrified to seeing weakness in and then just just just just being pathetic I'm so terrified and seeing that in myself I seen other people and just it smells I smell like a drug-sniffing dog likes ball there it is smell desperation I have always been a blabbermouth I can never shut the fuck up I love talk

► 01:07:58

and and I've always been fascinated by human beings and their lives and just talking to people and find out like the guy before was this guy Yohan Grillo Jose narcotics journalist he's a narco journalist in in Mexico I mean I couldn't wait to talk that guy got me just what a life and he's been living in Mexico for 18 years is from England I buy for do you know he's telling me about friends that have been killed and you know he's been in some sticky situations a few times and you know I'm just fascinated by it by people and what they like to do you know I'm fascinated by athletes I'm fascinated by physicists I just always been very very curious and I've always recognize that everyone thinks about things differently that I could take a little bit of something from everybody whether it's from a book or is from have a conversation with someone I can gain a little bit of a little bit of experience little bit of knowledge

► 01:08:58

insight you're naturally very curious

► 01:09:03

cuz I I listen to you interviews and you're naturally very curious you don't struggle for the next question cuz you really want to know something that makes it much easier is very lucky that I found this just stumbled into doing this connection it wasn't this way in the beginning of the big beginning was just horseshit and with friends and and slowly but surely as a pop the podcast became popular I was like a winter fact I would talk to me and then I'll get people on and then it became more of these long-form interesting conversations

► 01:09:35

if you're curious about human functioning at all human nature at all that there's an endless menu of things you can talk about I don't care who it is. You could you could pull somebody out of a car on the street if you're curious you can talk to him cuz everybody has a different take in life everybody has a different walk absolutely interviewing all these athletes people tend to write off athletic Pursuits is being entirely physical and they are not I mean to think this is an easy way for people to look at it that don't engage or they never really thought about playing anything at a very high level that requires some intense thinking it might not require mathematics or a large vocabulary but understanding which requires understanding when and how to execute understanding how to keep your shit together Under Pressure those are all of intensely intellectual aspects of any really high-end athletic Pursuit the music

► 01:10:35

that wants the ball at the buzzer to showboat there's a different breed of cat that wants that ball with that point as it's not always who you think but it takes a special kind of person that wants that pressure that knows they can handle it better than anybody else you know it's a lot of times it's people that are entirely confident that they've done the work you know there's a haunting thing that happens with athletes where you're not sure if you did enough and of in Fighters it's a very dangerous inclination because it leads you to overtrain and have to be very careful about that because with a fighter you only can learn so much during your training camp like say it once you get into training camp you got eight weeks depending on who you are some guys like to do a little longer but the average maybe 8-12 weeks is a Long Camp

► 01:11:29

you already have to know how to fight by the time you get to Camp so what you're really doing is just kind of working on specific movements where you're dealing with one kind of fighter and then getting your body in shape getting your body condition to getting your mind ready preparing everything cutting your body weight down getting so you can weigh in and have a good amount of Vitality can't drain yourself so this is complicated dance that goes on and that haunting thing of did I do enough can cause fighters to screw themselves over by over so you have to have enough confidence to know that you've done enough as well as enough you have to know you've done enough but no you haven't done too much is is really strange dance in on this this eat this weekend is a giant UFC big UFC 2 big title fight between for the very best fighters in the world and I mean that is one of the most interesting

► 01:12:29

aspects of the fight game to me is one watching these guys stare each other down at the weigh-in will they get a look at each other and they know 24 hours from now they're going to war and just see you like is there a just us smell looked out is there anything is there anything in there you know and just knowing that this is probably one of the most difficult things and all of Athletics and that these guys are going to their they're going to ply their trade in one of the most complicated things it's a battle of physical mental of a mindset of will of conditioning and discipline and then it's also there's a lot of random chat that happens do you think if I can change the way in when people are looking at the yes yes yeah I can change it can shift right then you can look at Jon Jones sideways upside down you can stick your teeth affect shit there's some guys are just locked down

► 01:13:29

bulletproof Jon Jones bulletproof bulletproof they just lucky you in like they know what to do as a reason why is undefeated you know he's just he knows how to do it but then this other guys that like that maybe I like maybe it's a D20 maybe and then the the stare-down you look at the guy you looking like God damn it I'm fighting yoel Romero how the fuck did this happen and then he seemed drop down to 75 maybe 73% confidence 7270 shit they look at his traps he's got a neck that starts at the top of his head you like off fuck you know the certain guys are just irritating at weigh-ins to I can change a little bit but not for everybody there certain guys that just it doesn't matter you can get in there there certain Champions like real champions like Mighty Mouse Johnson is a bunch of guys like that they're just Champions you look at it doesn't matter if it did they know what they're doing they've done the work they're the best in the business are you can mean mug

► 01:14:29

get aggressive they might smile at you see you tomorrow so is that because they know who they are and it doesn't matter who this is or is it that they just don't they don't believe in this guy hates they know who they are I think and they have reached a level of confidence when you get to a certain level of success like you know Jon Jones has one loss in his record as by disqualification to fight that he was destroying the guy and he was hitting the guy with it's a really dumb rule but when you throw elbows you not allowed to throw a 12 to 6 elbow meaning coming straight down the only reason that exists is because when mixed martial arts is first being was first being sanctioned by athletic commission though the people that were in the athletic commission had some nervous fears of it seem like those late night TV shows were karate guys are breaking bricks with their elbow driving straight down it.

► 01:15:29

kill somebody if they did that so it's not have lemonade that strike it's a dumb move and Jon Jones hit this guy with a couple 12-6 elbows and he was disqualified in a fight he was just destroying a guy so for a guy like that who has this staggering resume of achievement is widely considered to be the greatest light heavyweight champion of all time if not he's definitely in the running of the greatest fighter ever of all time for a guy like that he's not he's he's confident to the point of you know he's he's he's not trying to just beat this guy although he's going to beat this guy is trying to go down in history as one of the greatest of all time was the greatest of all time so for a guy like that it doesn't matter what you do now that he's a Michael Jordan type character you know there's a few of those guys out there that LeBron James is the Larry Bird stay there exists in all sports they they have this mindset of a champion mindset

► 01:16:26

does he fight angry or does she fight business like a business like he's very businesslike he's very businesslike he just knows what he's doing the best guys fight business like there's some guys have a fight with emotion and they're still really good but like Theodore Emelianenko roses famous Russian guy who would have a look on his face that he was cashing a check the new smashing a guy's eye orbit in he was just you know he was the highest level that like that robotic business-like approach to fighting then after he knocked unconscious he helped you get back up it was over once you shut it off it was over there's no no sign of heat on emotions were we like showing emotions in a fight showing anger and all that was weak

► 01:17:09

I think there's a huge psychological component to it I mean I agree completely think it's terrible tear across the ring and I'm like oh Jesus what did I sign up for I don't know what the money was here but it wasn't worth it, but window when you were staring across the Ringgit Iron Mike and it was like 1989 he was on top of the world has ever been hit before guns blazing and he did you meet him now he's like the nicest guy in the planet Earth couldn't be a sweeter guy

► 01:18:09

he's got a daughter that's apparently a pretty good tennis player dirt bike that he was never he was never as formidable after his training was never the same you know he he he lost that connection with custom auto you know how to custom auto with training them when he was at his very best and then Kevin Rooney who work with custom out and Mike trained him after that and then they eventually parted ways and before the Buster Douglas fight member he had guys in his Corner didn't even have an end swell mean his ear was swelling up and Ice to put on it yeah it was a lot of factors but also if you don't want to talk to Mike on the podcast 1A things was in this was just him sort of

► 01:19:09

coming with to grips with the fact that he never really had a childhood is childhood was the from the time I was twelve years old custom model took him in was hypnotizing him and teaching him how to fight tissue modified in hypnotizing him to be a machine is going at you like he was literally saying to him you don't exist the task exist the job at hand exists and then you're going to go out there and you going to get the job done and he was telling us to a 13 year old that never experienced love he just was abandoned and homeless and and this is the only way he ever got any sort of positive reinforcement is life is by destroying people

► 01:19:46

yeah that's sad but you know now he seems to really be connected to his daughter I mean you see you see and hear a softness in his voice he really is connected he learned it's easy to try to look at someone like who they were you know 20 years ago it's it's easy to do that it's easy just all he's that guy but people evolve and they grow and he's a great example. He's a very different person he doesn't even work out because he's worried about his ego like he he doesn't hit the bag or do anything like that has occasionally get on the treadmill workout a little bit on a treadmill I'll just get a little exercise in these worried about feeding his ego was worried about like looking at himself in the mirror and bring that old monster back again

► 01:20:34

yeah I think you'd be afraid of not being able to get back to the level he was I think he's afraid of that I don't think he wants to be that guy he says he doesn't like that guy which is crazy because that guy who made him rich and famous and everybody loves him because he was that guy but who he is now is completely different person just a sweetheart a real sweetheart you seems like you knew you'd never think to talk to him if you didn't know his history you'd never guess that was that guy now you never would yeah I think the psychological aspect of fighting is one of the more intriguing parts of it to me and we don't for me it's like probably one of the reasons why I got interested in saiki in the first place in the way people think about things and and weakness like real weakness of weakness weakness can get exposed in a variety of different ways but in competitions when you really see it

► 01:21:31

yeah, I have this Theory we see it in sports and I saw it when I talked to him and he's been a friend of mine for a long time and I was talking about his psychology as he goes into a football game and he says he plays a movie in his mind of the entire game before he plays it cuz on the football game you're going to have 11 or 12 possessions during the game football game football eleven or twelve times and you saying I'm going to carry that ball three or four times per possession and he knows which place he's going to run you could run him through his head he would see it even know he was going to be there to tackle him you would see him but I have this theory that situations do not make Gyros

► 01:22:26

situations expose Heroes and I saw that in Katrina the hurricane that so devastated that that one neighborhood what Ward was it does it tonight or and I forget which one it was that got so wiped out

► 01:22:44

when Katrina hit New Orleans and there was a guy down there that had been really quiet nobody has ever heard anything out of him as an older guy lived in the house stayed to himself and that night when the water was at rooftop level I mean he swam rooftop to Rooftop and save six seven eight people got him out of there and he didn't make it out but he got seven or eight people out of there and you go back and you check his history and he was a military hero he just sat quietly in his home and when the situation came about it reveals who he was and I think that's what happens I think it if you've got a hero they just sit there sit there sit there until the situation reveals who they are I don't think it makes him a hero I think it reveals that they're Heroes and I think that's what happens to people they eat

► 01:23:44

they are who they are until they get them in the opportunity comes along and they're going to show you that is they may show you their a coward or they may show you that they've got the focus to hang or they may show you the superhero but life circumstances are going to come along and I'm going to show you who somebody is what's also interesting is when someone does get revealed to be a coward they can become a hero it's very hard is very hard to get past the the memory of you being a coward

► 01:24:19

well I'll tell you why I think that's true if you want to know please

► 01:24:24

going to everything going off on a tangent come on I think I think we learn about ourselves and everybody talks about self-esteem and self-worth but nobody ever talks about what it really is or how we get it and I think about it in terms of self attribution because you know how you form opinions of other people like if you look at this guy and you maybe you work with this guy and so you watch him across a couple years and maybe this guy shows up to work everyday and he's there 15 minutes early and he unlocks the place gets everything ready put the coffee on has his desk ready he's all buttoned up and man when the bell rings he's ready to go and eat you just learned this guy's buttoned-up ready to go Dependable never misses he's always here so you attribute certain traits and characteristics to him based on your observations of him and the experience of him based on that you

► 01:25:24

assign certain traits and characteristics to him but I say that's exactly the same way we form our own self-image and our own level of self-worth we watch ourselves go through life and we watch how we handle certain circumstances and situations and that's why I say overindulgence is one of the most Insidious forms of child abuse known to Parenting it's not the worst it's just Insidious because if you overindulge your children and do everything for them you never let them observe themselves Master their environment you never let them step back and say wow I did that I overcame that I handled this I did that and so that's the same way we make our own self-image level self-worth we watch ourselves

► 01:26:21

overcome the third grade we watch ourselves stand up to a bully we watch our self handle a test with a information that intimidated us or we watch ourselves make it onto the little league baseball team and actually get a hit when we needed to or we watch ourselves get onto the debate team and actually argue something successfully whether it's academic or athletic or musical we watch ourselves do it and so we go back and say hey I did that I a tribute to myself the ability I can hang I can do this I can rise to the occasion or we watch ourselves full like a pup tent in the wind storm and say I can't hang I don't have it

► 01:27:09

and we make those attributions to ourselves and so we shrink from The Challenge for the rest of our lives until like you said it's hard to overcome that and something pushes you up until you finally observe yourself overcome something and I think that's how we form our level of self-esteem and our identity about who we are and I don't think most people think about to look back and see how did I how did I get to be Joe Rogan's I sit in that chair you have a self-image you have a level of confidence and ego strength a level of self-worth that's attributable to things you've watched yourself do or not do achieve not achieve overcome or whatever throughout your life and I think to know yourself you have to know what those things are I think you're 100% right and I think for children participating in things that are going to test you so critical giving them this opportunity to realize that the the

► 01:28:08

there's a line between success and failure and then you could push through that line you could you could become successful at something and watching kids at that's why I think sports are so important for children I think that's one of the more Insidious things about having these participation trophies for kids wear that nobody wins the game yeah yeah I mean that just goes down as an environmental non-event to do it's also psychologically its coddling severe is very damaging for your potential education that you would get from that situation the bad feeling that you get when someone scores on you is motivation for you to be better at defense yeah

► 01:28:58

I think we cheap kids when we do that got to play everybody I get that not everybody is meant to be an athlete so okay look good you'll do something else be good at what you're good at that you really want to do it well you got a long road it's a greased he'll start running everything's not for everybody so find what you're good at and watch yourself achieve in that lane

► 01:29:27

you know that's like I could I can't carry a tune in a bucket I can't even I can play no instrument I can't sing I can play a radio that's got a big on off knob that's it and so I don't try I'm just not good at that so I go in the lanes that I can do stuff and observe myself in that but I think you cheat codes if you don't let them observe themselves faced adversity in overcoming absolutely to learn that life isn't fair I mean if you're a kid and you're playing basketball with a fifteen-year-old LeBron James and you're my height you go and you have to be able to understand and appreciate that and then conversely if you're very physically frail you know maybe wrestling's not for you either you know maybe maybe you we need to do something about

► 01:30:27

body before you engage in any sort of a combat sport you'll did an experiment but it did something called teaching Machines of you were saying that it was

► 01:30:38

short. Time to think they took students in the class where they put the steps in learning the information so close together that there was never a failure experience it would say like the War of 1812 happened in 1812 then the next thing would say the War of 1812 happened in blank you feeling 1812 I mean come on potted plant to get that so they put it together and they would teach the information and they would teach it to criteria where you mastered the information you've had it 100% And they said wow this is great everybody learned it so everybody made a hundred everybody got the information they truly did no question about it they learn the information and so they did gray really took him out of that program and put them back in the regular classroom

► 01:31:31

and the first time they came to questions they didn't know the answer to the first time they didn't get a hundred they came apart like a cheap suit they Panic they didn't know how to handle adversity they didn't know how to handle it when they didn't have the right answers they didn't learn how to not be perfect and so they scrapped the whole program because he said you can't do this because that's not the way life is and if I mean it's you're not teaching them how the real world works you might as well teach him to go on red and stop on green and then give him the keys and put them out in like cuz that's not the way it works in those kids were absolutely screwed up when they got into a truly competitive environment

► 01:32:17

you can't be success only doesn't make any sense it's not healthy it's not good for you you don't learn from it mean that the whole idea about school is your supposed to be setting kids up for the future he supposed to be teaching them not just information but teaching them how to learn and how to improve that worries you know these students UCLA Law School

► 01:32:42

complained and got a professor either disciplined or fired because he required them to take a counter argument over something controversial like Ferguson

► 01:32:59

he said I want you to show you that you're all on this point of you now I want you to prepare an argument for the other side and they all said that's that's upsetting to a Swedish can't do it and I went to the administration and complained why that's crazy because you may have to do as a lawyer you may have to represent someone who's done something you don't agree with if that's what you want to do for a living right

► 01:33:31

I'm like what the hell has happened here oh my God that is so crazy. That's not that's crazy you know why

► 01:33:43


► 01:33:45

well there's a there's a movement going on in this country right now that the social justice movement and it leans in that direction that people don't want to look at things for how they are they want to look at things for how they want them to be yeah that just I just don't understand you cannot

► 01:34:06

legislate that everything is going to be equal for everybody because everybody's not equal I'm sorry they're not equal they may be equal in terms of their value is a human beings yes but they're not equal in math skills they're not equal in how fast they run they're not equal in creativity they're not everybody has their own value but that doesn't mean they're marketable skills in an open Society in an open market are going to be the same now it's ridiculous to go about it was a story about a woman who was guarding the White House she was the Lone guard at one of the doors in the White House and some crazy man broke in and knocked her to the ground and just ran through the White House and it was running around inside the White House for like 3 minutes before they finally some off-duty secret service agent tackle this guy I saw like what the fuck is going on

► 01:35:06

and that the joke was that people think that a woman can do everything a man to do I go when we could do everything a man could do is that true and some woman he was Linda Krause, stores like yes I will. Doesn't make any fucken sense here's why doesn't make any sense because a man can't do everything a man can do I go look I've met Shaquille O'Neal and his dick is where my face is and if the White House is experiencing a shakatak I'm the wrong person save the world my wife and kid Garden the White House guess what I'm getting in okay I love my family but if it's between me and get elected just know where they going to be able to stop me I love them to death but I'm a man and their women and if there's a woman guarding the White House I don't care who she is I'll fuck her up it's not going to happen this is crazy but this someone had this idea that they would put a woman in charge

► 01:36:06

charge of a very physical job you should have a giant man with a violent temper and he should be armed okay cuz this is the guy that's keeping bad people from the fucking president I just I don't know I don't understand it just seems like you got to find your own lane I mean yeah I'm going to put me in the NBA has also mental things look I suck at math if everyone has a chance to work at CERN right everyone has a chance to work at the Large Hadron Collider including people that have no idea about physics whatever real time making these equations work

► 01:36:46

that's what I mean about finding your own lane yakyuu I can add two and two and get five every time I'm just not good at math but I'm good with words I can talk I can read fast I can comprehend well but I am not good with math so I got myself into a lane where I talk for a living I read I talk on its cast

► 01:37:08

I can accept that I'm not suited for that I don't feel bad about myself because of that once you do something you're good at it you can accept not being good at other things it's much easier if you find a thing that you're good at whether it's gymnastics or singing or painting whatever the fuck it is if you could find a thing that you're good at it'll make you be it'll give you a a feeling of self-worth and you won't need to be good at everything you can accept and you can enjoy other people being good at things as well as I said earlier my dad was an alcoholic and I would compare myself to that kid across cuz I had a damaged personal truth but I found the currency because at that time in my life I was a pretty decent athlete for this small school I was going to so that was my current see what was happening at home because I got Strokes for being able to jump high and run fast it's cool so that became my currency so now or I compared myself to him okay maybe my

► 01:38:08

but I could run faster and jump higher so that became my currency so now it okay that level the playing field for me at a given time and do what you're going to have to find something you love find something you're passionate about and that you could also excel at you love doing it and you get paid for it then you're just double blast yeah I got it right cuz you enjoy doing this and it works out and that's good

► 01:38:44

yeah it is and if I just think if you're in your life and there's you don't have something that you're passionate about I mean I don't mean that in a cliche Quay

► 01:38:58

if there's not something where you wake up every day and there's nothing in your life that you're excited to do

► 01:39:05

man you need to go back to the drawing board cuz if it be if all you're doing is just grinding it out you could have everyday go to a job you don't like do tasks you don't care to do and come home to a home you don't want to come home to and wait to get them do it again the next day you're burning daylight what the hell is existence is that I don't I don't understand that find something I don't care if it's a gardening or music or art or you're trying to do you expose yourself to different things with that very purpose of finding something that you love it or something why there

► 01:39:53

it's not illegal if it's not going to be high risk or something you can do that's not going to kill you or put you in jail at you can be excited about ya and I think it's one of the most important things to do when your parent is to try to expose your kid has many different things as possible to find those things for them growing up because my dad never took me hunting a single day in his life he never took me fishing never took me camping a single day in his life he never took me to the lake you never took me skiing voting anything so Irish I took them to all of those things I didn't know I had no clue what I was doing but I took them turkey hunting duck hunting deer hunting but she's skiing snow skiing camping I did it all

► 01:40:47

and to see what they like let him pick and boy when you don't know what you're doing as a dad that's a bitch yeah we just little things like you will you go camping and you don't realize that sitting your chin up on the side of a hill even if it's like a bad idea you got to get on flat ground but you figure these things out as you gave them those experiences so they can choose and they did but I love Jay

► 01:41:32

yeah Jay loves you he really enjoys spending time with you guys and traveling with you guys and he's great trips he's an awesome guy really is so much fun he knows how to have a good time and he says the same thing about you you so you know how to have a good time Yeah Yeahs. Cast where can I get it well it's still in the blanks Phil in the blanks yeah I guess you get it everywhere podcast or gotten right. Sounds all that jazz iTunes Apple Stitcher all the different places to go look at that money on shampoo you shave my own shampoo and I've been Ballin since I was like twelve so really my hair fell out really early wow I never playing college football at take my helmet off and

► 01:42:32

look like it I had an animal in there what the hell is in your helmet is my hair shut up I don't know why but it just fell out I guess you got knocked out the mustache Works to yeah well something a little creepy was one well I tried to give you a written look like total porn

► 01:42:59

how do you do that embrace your weaknesses yellow wrote my first book on Oprah she said she'll make it a trademark right there when aren't you I got no complaints I hear you she treated me pretty right absolutely doctor Phillies and gentlemen

► 01:43:28

thank you everyone for tune in to the show and thank you to our sponsors thank you to butcher box 100% grass-fed and finished beef free range organic chicken Heritage breed pork all delivered to your door on dry ice with free shipping anywhere in the lower 48 get $20 off plus free ground beef for life that is 2 lb of free 100% grass-fed ground beef and every order for the lifetime of your subscription stop and think about what a deal that is to get this deal go to butcherbox.com Rogan thank you also to the cash app the number one app in finance ladies and gentlemen download the cash app from the app store or the Google Play Market order your cash card today and when you download the cash app enter the referral code Joe Rogan all one word $5 would go to you that is 5 free dollars better yet $5 to go to support our good friend Justin brands

► 01:44:28

fight for the Forgotten charity which is helping to build Wells for the pygmies and I am also pleased to say to the cash app will be continuing its support of UFC fighter Ray Borg Son by donating an additional $5 to help cover his bills at least until Ray is able to get back into the octagon and last but not least we are brought to you by 23andMe 23andMe allows you to go beyond ancestry to access more personalized insights about you based on your DNA with more than a hundred and twenty-five genetic reports you can gain insights about your health your traits and more to see what your jeans say about your health your traits and more by your ancestry plus Health Service kit today at 23 and me.com Rogan by your health and ancestry service kit today at the number to three and me.com

► 01:45:28

/ Rogan that's 23andme.com Rogan it's cool you find out all sorts of groovy stuff about where your peeps came from thank you folks thanks tunity show much love to you all